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London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number (Read 352,712 times)
NonGeographicalMan
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #165 - Jul 11th, 2005 at 12:02pm
 
Quote:
With modern switches is it not possible to have exactly the same routing/switching facilities on geographical numbers,as you can have on 0870.

There is a class of NGN starting 02something that are only charged to callers at geographic rates but that have all the call rerouting features of other NGNs such as 0870 and 0845.

They have not been very popular because the call recipient instead of the caller has to pay an extra amount for the facility although the cost per call is not as high as for receiving 0800 calls.  Equally importantly overseas and mobile phone callers are  not charged a premium as they would be on even an 0800 NGN phone number.
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Tanllan
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #166 - Jul 11th, 2005 at 12:03pm
 
Quote:
Because presumably you were willing to pay the call forwarding cost of these calls? Wink

The Met are not willing to pay anything for phone call handling or call forwarding.  They want the callers to pay the lot.


No, there was no forwarding, merely intelligent routing in the PSTN to find a free answering board. That was why I suggested it - both to the client and here.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #167 - Jul 11th, 2005 at 12:05pm
 
Quote:
No, there was no forwarding, merely intelligent routing in the PSTN to find a free answering board. That was why I suggested it - both to the client and here.


If what Big John says is true then it seems that BT withdrew this as a free facility on geographic phone exchange based numbers at the time that they invented NGNs.
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bigjohn
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #168 - Jul 11th, 2005 at 12:06pm
 
The London Bombings Relief Fund has now been launched by the Red Cross.    

Yes  you have guessed it they are using a 08705 no (08705 125 125) supplied by BT.Will they never learn.
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« Last Edit: Jul 11th, 2005 at 12:07pm by bigjohn »  

BJ.
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #169 - Jul 11th, 2005 at 12:08pm
 
Quote:
Yes  you have guessed it they are using a 08705 no (08705 125 125) supplied by BT.Will they never learn.

Crooks never learn.  They are incorrigible.

Instead they have to be legislated and imprisoned (or in this case regulated) out of existence.
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bigjohn
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #170 - Jul 11th, 2005 at 12:12pm
 
Quote:
If what Big John says is true then it seems that BT withdrew this as a free facility on geographic phone exchange based numbers at the time that they invented NGNs.


I think it was mentioned by the COI in the revised guidance notes on the use of 0870 numbers.Although i cant locate my copy at the mo.
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Tanllan
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #171 - Jul 11th, 2005 at 12:22pm
 
Quote:
If what Big John says is true then it seems that BT withdrew this as a free facility on geographic phone exchange based numbers at the time that they invented NGNs.

BT were running NGNs at the time that we did this and we did not any. Videotron's Nokia switches enabled them to check for a free outlet before extending the call - all within the PSTN. Yes, the call came from outside Videotron and was delivered within their network, but did not C&W take over Videotron?
So it could all be handled within the PITO network if they could have been bothered to think about it.
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idb
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #172 - Jul 11th, 2005 at 12:38pm
 
These people just cannot get a grip of what the problem is here. Why are
these ministers so utterly incompetent? Do they ever read? Can they actually
read? This woman needs to be FIRED.

Source: http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13384759,00.html

Home Office Minister Hazel Blears has said she understood the desperate need
of relatives and friends for information. [...]

The minister also announced an urgent review of a 40p-a-minute charge for
phoning the helpline.

Ms Blears said the helpline had been set up to deal with disasters and
terrorist incidents because it could handle 200 incoming calls rather than
the normal 40.

"But I am concerned about the cost) and, therefore, we are going to
review it urgently to see whether or not we can me sure people are not
having to pay for the local call," she said.

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idb
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #173 - Jul 11th, 2005 at 12:40pm
 
And more:

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4671239.stm

A minister has pledged a swift review of the 40p-a-minute charges for ringing the London bombs emergency phone line.
Home Office minister Hazel Blears said she wanted to make it free, adding: "The last thing we want to do is to add to people's distress."

Telecoms regulator Ofcom says using an 0870 number is "inappropriate". Ms Blears said the 0870 line was picked because it can take 200 calls at once.

Callers pay 10p a minute from landlines and 40p from mobiles.

Asked about the cost, Ms Blears told the BBC: "That line was originally set up because it could take two hundred calls at once while the other line would only have been able to take 40 calls, but I am concerned about this.

"You know the last thing we want to do is to add to people's distress, so we are going to review the situation very quickly indeed.

"If we'd have just had the normal line, then people could have faced the prospect of getting the engaged single and that would have been dreadful."

Casualty line

Guidelines suggest public service bodies be wary of using the code partly because of cost and partly because it cannot always be accessed by people calling from abroad.

The casualty bureau line was organised by the government-funded Police Information and Technology Organisation (PITO), which provides communications services for the police.

An Ofcom spokesman said: "When we became aware that an 0870 number was being used we contacted the Metropolitan Police, PITO and the Home Office."

The number was provided by Cable & Wireless which said it had offered PITO a free 0800 number and a cheaper rate 0845 number.

Cable & Wireless pledged to donate any profits it made from the calls to charities working with the families of the bombing victims.

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idb
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #174 - Jul 11th, 2005 at 12:43pm
 
What is typical of these goons at Ofcom, HO, PITO, Ministers etc is that they are all running around trying to deflect the blame from their own inadequate actions. Laughable if it wasn't so serious. Shameful episode. TAKE RESPONSIBILITY - that's why you are paid so much and have big fat pension plans. Get off your backsides and DO SOMETHING!
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bigjohn
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #175 - Jul 11th, 2005 at 12:49pm
 
It doesnt surprise me that she doesnt know her arspidistrus from her elbow.Her own dept The Home Office still even now make no mention of the geographical number   see

www.homeoffice.gov.uk/
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idb
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #176 - Jul 11th, 2005 at 12:55pm
 
The Home Office is a waste of space. It still hasn't provided a full response to my FOI request which is at the appeal stage. It so wants to hold on to its rip-off numbers but it will not be able to. This debacle strengthens my position given that the inability to call corrupt numbers from overseas is now more widely understood, and the idiots at HO must now realize that the IND can reasonably expect callers from overseas.

The HO also replied to my message of July 7. It stated:

>>

Date: 11-Jul-2005

TREAT OFFICIAL CORRESPONDENCE

Thank you for your e-mail of 07/07/05 16:14:47 regarding..... [Use of 0870 number for London casualty bureau]

The matters you have raised are the responsibility of Foreign &
Commonwealth Office (TO).

We have therefore transferred your e-mail to NM9@PSILINK.co.uk , who will
arrange for a reply to be sent to you.

Transfer Desk

<<

This is a hand-washing exercise. Nothing to do with us. CRETINS.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #177 - Jul 11th, 2005 at 12:56pm
 
Below is my email to the Red Cross regarding their shameful use of an 0870 number for both the new bombings donation line and their main headquarters London switchboard.

Nick Young is their Chief Exec and Mr McClure is their Chairman while Amelia Lyons and Will Slater are their main press people.  You may find it useful to use the email addresses shown as their switchboard are rather precious about revealing them and their senior management are not shown on their website.

Sent: 11 July 2005 13:49
To: nyoung@redcross.org.uk
Cc: jmcclure@redcross.org.uk; alyons@redcross.org.uk; wslater@redcross.org.uk; stephen.carter@ofcom.org.uk; kip.meek@ofcom.org.uk; matt.peacock@ofcom.org.uk; geoff.brighton@ofcom.org.uk; gareth.davies@ofcom.org.uk; clive.hillier@ofcom.org.uk; charles.clarke@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk; stephen.rimmer@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk; john.gieve@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk; alan.gemmell@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk; tessa.jowell@culture.gov.uk; ben.verwaayen@bt.com; paul.hendron@bt.com; pierre.danon@bt.com; ian.livingston@bt.com; ian.bull@bt.com; paul.j.reynolds@bt.com; kath.embleton@bt.com; colin.annette@bt.com
Subject: Disgrace of New 0870 Number for Red Cross London Bombings Donation Line

Dear Mr Young,

I just wanted to complain in the strongest possible terms at your organisation's disgraceful and utterly crass decision to use an exploitative 0870 number for people willing to telephone you to make a donation to your London bombings appeal line.  I understand that calls to this number are being terminated by BT.

The Metropolitan Police and the Police Technology Organisation (www.pito.org.uk) have already been resoundingly condemned in several national newspapers for their misuse of such a number for their casualty enquiry line for the bombings and now you as a charity decide to perpetrate exactly the same kind of outrageous abuse.  This is beyond belief but it does show why Ofcom's and the Central Office of Information's policy of politely requesting that organisations do not use such numbers for these purposes is utterly doomed to failure.  I also note that even your main London switchboard number is only listed as an 0870 number with directory enquiries which surely says everything we need to know about the cynical attitude of the senior management in your organisation.

I forward below a copy of the email I sent to the Metropolitan Police on this matter and you may also find it helpful to study the press coverage on the issue at:-

www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=402137&in_page_id=2

Also the recent advice of the Advertising Standards Authority guidance which indicates that you must reveal that 0870 calls are not charged at standard national fixed line rates:-

www.asa.org.uk/cap/news_events/news/2005/Hanging+on+the+telephone+on+and+on+and+...

Suffice it to say that by using an 0870 number you make it impossible for many people who wish to donate from overseas to reach you and you also impose phone call costs on pay as you go mobile phone users (up to 50p per minute) in the UK that are out of all proportion to the small revenue take of 3p or 4p per minute that the Red Cross may receive.

If you want people to donate to you then you should get them to do so honestly but you should not do so by swindling them in a way that will undermine good will towards your organisation.

Yours in disappointment
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bigjohn
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #178 - Jul 11th, 2005 at 1:26pm
 
NGN. Mark Astarita is the Director of Fundraising for the British Red Cross. He would be the person responsible for the use of 0870.You might care to add him to your list.

Also Peter Morgan BT,s Group Director of Communications has overall responsibility for BT Communications/PR/etc so it would be probaly be worth involving him.As he is no doubt aware of the backlash CW got.
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« Last Edit: Jul 11th, 2005 at 1:37pm by bigjohn »  

BJ.
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #179 - Jul 11th, 2005 at 1:36pm
 
Quote:
NGN. Mark Astarita is the Director of Fundraising for the British Red Cross. He would be the person responsible for the use of 0870.You might care to add him to your list.


Thanks.  Where did you track that down.
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