SAYNOTO0870.COM - OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS

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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #195 - Nov 6^th, 2005 at 6:42pm

Quote:

I think we really need to go to town on totally shooting down the totally unbelievable and telco loving reasons Ofcom have given for leaving 0845 revenue share in place for 2 years more....................................

The purpose of those web pages is to provide the information to visitors of this site, showing them how to make their views known. I didn't think it was appropriate to include personal views on those pages - The best place for this is the discussion forums, as most people do at the moment.

Quote:

Lastly are you now going to send an email about your articles on the consultation to everyone you have registered in the forum database?

Yes, I was hoping to do this at the same time as the forum upgrade - Which was going to be done this weekend. Since doing a live test this weekend, a couple more issues - including the previous loss of 'Notifications' have come to light, and need to be sorted out - Although hopefully I should be getting an email today or tomorrow with the answer these problems.

Once this has been done, it will be a lot easier for me to send out a bulk e-mail to ALL forum members regarding the Ofcom consultation.

I am also exploring other avenues to have the site and Ofcom consultation mentioned in a VERY large e-mail newsletter.

Thanks again
Daniel

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Check Out the main website at http://www.saynoto0870.com

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NonGeographicalMan Ex Member	Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION Reply #196 - Nov 6^th, 2005 at 6:47pm Quote: I am also exploring other avenues to have the site and Ofcom consultation mentioned in a VERY large e-mail newsletter. Or perhaps Saturday/Sunday personal finance columns of the national newspapers? Several more weekends between now and Dec 6th are left.
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dorf

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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #197 - Nov 6^th, 2005 at 8:03pm

NEW OFCOM CONSULTATION NEW INFORMATION PAGES

I would suggest that some of the information given under the new "Ofcom Consultation New Information Pages" is somewhat misleading and understated if it is meant to assist those with limited knowledge about these scams to produce consultation responses. Just as one example, under the Number Translation Services: A Way Forward, it states:
"0870 - Cost 7.5p/min or more in the daytime. Ofcom proposes to reduce these to the same rate as geographical numbers and stop companies profiting from calls."

Well that will be misleading for any who do not know, since to respond on that basis will result in what NGM rightly calls a "telling Ofcom they are doing quite well response", and that is absolutely no use at all! The cunning point on this particular issue is that Ofcom do not mention in their short summary that their real plan is to allow the 0870 scam to continue as at present, provided that the scammers have an announcement giving the cost of the disguised Premium use of 0870 at the current and continuing 7.5 p per minute in the daytime. In other words no change, but an apparent sop to the consumer" This is the sort of wrinkle which must be tackled in an effective consultation response. Unless these points are clearly explained anyone who is unaware will just end up telling Ofcom what a good idea it is to bring the call charges for 0870 down to geographic rates.

And so on for the other points and other consultations. If any guide is to be of use in assisting others to make the consulation responses more easily then it must cover the hidden issues, namely those which Ofcom cunningly hides in verbosity and deliberate muddling in their consultation documents.

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Ofcom are completely ineffectual

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #198 - Nov 6^th, 2005 at 10:13pm

Dorf,

As so often is the case you and I are of one mind on an issue.

Unfortunately I think Daniel is trying to be far too much of a gentleman here and has failed to observe that Ofcom do not play cricket but instead play hardball by writing their consultations and the questions in their consultations in such a way as to prejudge the result. They behaved the same way over the methods by which they investigated call centre queuing times and the way in which they asked members of the public to say how much they think 0870 calls cost.

We need to level the score by starting off our item by saying "can you believe that Ofcom now plans to make so called "Lo-Call" 0845 numbers more expensive than 0870 numbers two years on the spurious grounds that by say mid 2007 when 0870 finally stops being premium rate, a small remaining band of 0845 dial up customers cannot be easily migrated to an 0844 or an 09 number (a 1p a minute at all times revenue sharing 09 is what I have in mind).

If we merely set out the issues and questions the way Ofcom have set them out, but in paraphrased form, then the consumer will be confused in the way that Ofcom intended all along and will not provide the answers that are in their own best interests.

One has to fight fire with fire and I find it a little disappointing that our forum administrator honestly believes that the average member of this forum (as opposed to us small band of rabid enthusiasts) will be able to comprehend all the issues which Ofcom has deliberately set out to make as hard as possible to understand.

We must tell the ordinary members of the public what is wrong with the Ofcom proposals and why they are so outrageous. And if members of the public agree with us then they too may lodge some of those objections to with Ofcom.

But to suggest that they are going to achieve all this on their own without a large amount of help in telling them what are the issues that really matter here is, in my opinion, being more than just a shade over optimistic about human nature.

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« Last Edit: Nov 6^th, 2005 at 10:14pm by N/A »

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bbb_uk Global Moderator Offline Posts: 2,041	Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION Reply #199 - Nov 7^th, 2005 at 7:34pm Quote: Or perhaps Saturday/Sunday personal finance columns of the national newspapers? Just out of curiosity which one would be the better one and have you an idea of the cost?
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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #200 - Nov 7^th, 2005 at 7:48pm

Quote:

Just out of curiosity which one would be the better one and have you an idea of the cost?

I mean in the editorial personal finance and/or consumer sections written by journalists which are free. And the "best one" is as many papers as we can get to cover the story.

Its only advertising that you have to pay for and we do not have the budget to and nor do we need to do this as advertising.

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bbb_uk

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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #201 - Nov 8^th, 2005 at 7:01pm

For those that weren't already aware, Ofcom's consultation was split into TWO consultations:-

Number Translation Services: A Way Forward

and

Providing citizens and consumers with improved information about Number Translation Services and Premium Rate Services

So for those that may have already responded to Ofcom's 'A Way Forward' consultation don't forget the other consultation mentioned above!

I know I've mentioned this before but mentioned it again as it can be easy to forget about the other consultation. This is especially true as I've been unable to find the responses so far to this second consultation.

Update:

I've now found where they were after ringing Ofcom. At time of writing this only 8 people have responded to this second consultation.

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« Last Edit: Nov 9^th, 2005 at 11:08am by bbb_uk »

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #202 - Nov 8^th, 2005 at 7:13pm

I also noticed they weren't publishing the responses bbb.

I have a horrible feeling that no one has responded to the other consultation yet because Ofcom has been directing more press attention to the first one.

On the other hand perhaps there are loads of responses and the cock up theory by Ofcom applies. Or perhaps they have been publishing all responses received to both consultations against the 200 page one? Which begs the question why they ran it as two separate consultations in the first place? Roll Eyes

Has anyone here yet responsed to the second consultation on greater information for the consumer about NTS call charges?

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bbb_uk Global Moderator Offline Posts: 2,041	Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION Reply #203 - Nov 8^th, 2005 at 7:27pm Is there any point in ringing tomorrow and just asking? Even an approximate idea would be better than none.
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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #204 - Nov 8^th, 2005 at 7:32pm

Quote:

Is there any point in ringing tomorrow and just asking? Even an approximate idea would be better than none.

You should call Vicki Nash the Consultation Champion. Her phone number is listed in all currently running open Ofcom consultations.

Or I suppose you could email her with cc to Matt Peacock.

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #205 - Nov 9^th, 2005 at 10:25am

I have just received this Update email from Ofcom saying they have published their full research findings and methodology on the research work they did on consumer perceptions of 0800, 0845 and 0870 numbers.

Seems a bit late in the day to me considering that the consultation had already been running for 6 weeks and that a lot of people have already submitted their responses.

-----Original Message-----
From: Updates [mailto:Updates@ofcom.org.uk]
Sent: 09 November 2005 10:07
To: numbering@lists.ofcom.org.uk
Subject: Ofcom Update: NTS research

Ofcom is currently consulting on proposals to increase consumer protection measures governing the use of 0870/1 and 0844/5 numbers.
This consultation, 'Number Translation Services: A Way Forward', was published on 28 September 2005. The document included findings from consumer and business research commissioned by Ofcom.

To supplement the information published on 28 September, Ofcom has today published the full research findings and methodology.

This additional document includes detail on:

* Consumer research to investigate awareness, usage and understanding of different 08 number ranges;
* Research on business perspectives to understand why and how businesses use different NTS numbers;
* Mystery shopping to measure and compare the length of time it takes to connect to an operator when using 0800, 0845 and 0870 numbers.

The deadline for responses to Ofcom's NTS consultation is 6 December 2005.

Number Translation Services: A Way Forward A report of the key findings of two research studies conducted by HI Europe and MORI on behalf of Ofcom

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/nts_forward/ntsrsch.pdf

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« Last Edit: Nov 9^th, 2005 at 10:26am by N/A »

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bbb_uk

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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #206 - Nov 9^th, 2005 at 11:03am

It appears that only 8 people have actually responded to the second consultation that ofcom released.

Therefore can I again remind people that the second consultation titled:-

Providing citizens and consumers with improved information about Number Translation Services and Premium Rate Services

also needs responding to along with the original consultation. Both consultations have the deadline of 6th December.

You can view the responses to the second consultation
here
.

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idb

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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #207 - Nov 9^th, 2005 at 2:10pm

There are more responses to 'way forward' available today, and hopefully AJR will post the updated names shortly (a very useful service if I may add). The absence of 'corporate' responses is noticeable. Last time around, corporate responses were published alongside public responses. I wonder whether Ofcom is holding back the non-public replies until the consultation period is over?

Irrespective of the outcome, I really do not see how Ofcom can now ignore the overwhelming view from these responses that the public is fed up with NTS. Whilst some replies agree with Ofcom's proposals, there is a generic distaste for the corrupt numbering system. Whether Ofcom massages the responses into a general support for its actions remains to be seen, but I can't see how the general tone can be shelved.

Any thoughts?

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As from November 21, 2013, I no longer participate in the forum and am unable to receive private messages.

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #208 - Nov 9^th, 2005 at 4:12pm

Most corporate responses are probably only submitted on the last day because they have to sepnd a long time discussing the matter internally.

Even if they submit earlier they usually withhold the right to publish until the consultation has closed so as to not give their competitors an advantage when composing their consultations.

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AJR Full Member Offline Posts: 107	Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION Reply #209 - Nov 9^th, 2005 at 5:51pm In this second consultation, as in the first, the submission from Dr R D Feltham is well worth reading. Set aside a quarter of an hour, get yourself a cup of tea and then click here: http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/nts_info/responses/feltham.pdf
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