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NEG propaganda (Read 754,841 times)
idb
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #660 - Feb 28th, 2009 at 3:11am
 
http://www.totalfrance.com/france/forum/viewtopic.php?t=58262

how to call an English 0844 number help please....

<<
My husband needs to ring his doctors surgery in England to get the results of a blood test that he has had, but the only number that the surgery has is an 0844 number, which we cannot dial from our french landline.
Is there any way that we can get around this and call them? (we don't have an english mobile otherwise we would have used that!)



We did try dropping the first 0, but we recieved a recorded french message telling us that the number that we were dialling was not in the french directory. I'm assuming, as the french use 0844 and 0845 numbers, that this is the reason you cannot access the english numbers when you try.



We did try to call the 'normal number', only for it to divert to the 0844 number, with the same french message, telling us that this number is not in the french directory!
We tried both avenues, and neither worked, hence my post on here to see if there is a way of 'bypassing' the 0844 number.
>>

There is a reference to  

another web site <don't pay to call>

Is this affiliated to saynoto0870.com by any chance? I suspect not.
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« Last Edit: Feb 28th, 2009 at 3:19am by idb »  

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sergeant121
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Blood test result
Reply #661 - Feb 28th, 2009 at 7:24am
 
In a previous life, I would have dealt with a call such as, "I live xxx miles away and have been trying, unsuccessfully, to telephone my elderly Aunt for x days now.  The phone rings, but I cannot get a reply and I'm conerned for her safety" by establising the address and visiting myself.  If unable to get a reply at the door, I would make enquiries of neighbours and, if they proved fruitless, would, as a last resort, break in to confirm (or occasionally otherwise) the well-being of the person.

I see very little difference here.  The blood test may seem trivial but, as we all know, could confirm an illness which requires urgent attention. As such, I would have made contact with the surgery myelf to advise them one of their patients was attempting, but failing, to get in touch from abroad and to establish a viable communications route for the UK citizen abroad.

Whether the attitude of the police now would be similar to what mine was, is another matter (in view of the surveillance society under which we all now live in the UK, I suspect not), but it has to be worth  try.
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« Last Edit: Feb 28th, 2009 at 7:25am by sergeant121 »  

How can you tell when a lawyer's lying?  His (or her) lips move.
 
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Dave
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #662 - Feb 28th, 2009 at 5:15pm
 
[quote author=idb link=1160182005/645#658 date=1235788034]http://www.devonshirelodge.co.uk/telephone_system.htm

<<
[b]New Telephone System[/b]

[…]

On telephoning 0844 576 9965 you will be offered a number of options so that your call can be directed to the appropriate member of staff.

This means that many patients will actually pay less in total because their call is answered and processed more quickly. [highlight]We suggest you add our number 0844 576 9965 to your  Friends & Family list of numbers.[/highlight] [sup][***][/sup]

NEG WELCOMES GOVERNMENT CONSULTATION ON ENHANCED TELEPHONY SERVICES TO GP SURGERIES - December 2008 Please  click to view the statement by NEG
>>


*** According to BT Price List [Serviceview], Section 55:Personal (Residential) Customer Options
Part 12:Friends & Family / Friends & Family Overseas / Friends & Family Auto Update

http://www.serviceview.bt.com/list/public/current/Cust_Opts_Res_boo/3227_d0e5.htm#3227-d0e5

Excluded Calls

Calls to numbers shown in Section 2 Part 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 or 16 of the BT Price List with a Categorisation for Customer Options of 2, 4, 5 or 7.

0844 576 9965 is charge rate g6, categorization 5, and is neither "Eligible for Friends & Family (Exluding F&F Auto Update)" nor "Eligible for Friends & Family Auto Update"

http://www.serviceview.bt.com/list/public/current/Call_Charges_boo/1632_d0e5.htm#1632-d0e5

[b]Yet more lies from the despicable, deceitful and downright nasty NEG.[/b]

Now, where is Kath Simmons/Simons?[/quote]
Indeed.

With all 084x numbers BT keeps a regulated amount and passes the rest to the telephone provider operating the respective telephone number on behalf of the receiver. This means that the receiving telco gets most of the call charges.

The call charge from BT lines for numbers in the 0844 range are set by the receiver's telco. They thereby know and can control how much payment they get from BT and other call-retailing telcos. They can also decide whether to opt out of any BT discount schemes such as Friends and Family. Discounting the retail price means that the amount that the receiver's telco get will be reduced.

So Opal Telecom, part of Carphone Warehouse of which this surgery is a customer, has decided to charge the highest price it can for this 0844 number [u]and opt it out of any discounts[/u].

[b]So these are blatent lies by the surgery to cover up what it is doing.[/b]

[quote author=SilentCallsVictim link=1160182005/645#659 date=1235789979]The point about Friends and Family is totally meaningless, as this will be abolished from 1 April.[/quote]
The point about Friends and Family is meaningless because it is not available to 0844 576 numbers for the reasons explained. This was determined by Opal Telecom.
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« Last Edit: Feb 28th, 2009 at 5:21pm by Dave »  
 
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #663 - Mar 1st, 2009 at 4:51pm
 
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Feb 28th, 2009 at 2:59am:
idb wrote on Feb 28th, 2009 at 2:27am:
... The information on this page will shortly be updated to reflect the revised and still erroneous and misleading version ...

"This page" has now been updated. The practice has been notified.

Members may also be interested to view the updated list of NHS bodies using revenue sharing numbers, which now has 160 entries. A catalogue of media coverage is also available for reference and information. Please advise of any omissions or sugestions for additional material on the site as a resource for campaigners on this issue.
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #664 - Mar 1st, 2009 at 11:18pm
 
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Mar 1st, 2009 at 4:51pm:
[...] A catalogue of media coverage is also available for reference and information. Please advise of any omissions or sugestions for additional material on the site as a resource for campaigners on this issue.
A very useful collection of information.
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #665 - Mar 2nd, 2009 at 8:29am
 

Quote:
A catalogue of media coverage is also available for reference and information. Please advise of any omissions or sugestions for additional material on the site as a resource for campaigners on this issue.


An ommission from the media coverage catalogue is here:

http://www.thecnj.co.uk/islington/2009/022709/iletters022709_03.html

This is from the 27 February edition of the Islington Tribune.

Not sure how to advise them to add it to their catalogue.
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #666 - Mar 2nd, 2009 at 11:37pm
 
lompos wrote on Mar 2nd, 2009 at 8:29am:
An ommission from the media coverage catalogue is here:

The omission has now been corrected. This is a good letter.

lompos wrote on Mar 2nd, 2009 at 8:29am:
Not sure how to advise them to add it to their catalogue.

There is an email address on the home page; it is also available at the foot of this posting.
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #667 - Apr 7th, 2009 at 12:04am
 
http://www.gloslmc.com/newsletters/previousyears/final%20Newsletter%20March%2008...

GLOUCESTERSHIRE LOCAL MEDICAL COMMITTEE
MARCH 2008 Edition

0844 NUMBERS

The issue of phone charges for use of 0844
numbers has not gone away; the
government is looking into it. The current
guidance from the GPC is that it is OK to
use these numbers provided your practice
leaflet mentions the price ‘relevant to most
consumers’ i.e. the likely phone charges
that patients will bear when they phone the
practice. This warning does not have to be
heard on the system itself. However, there
are now ‘03’ series numbers which the
government would much prefer us to use.
These would cost the caller less than the
0844 numbers. NEG, which supplies the
phone systems that use 0844 numbers,
could convert the systems to 03 numbers if
necessary but says that, for instance, there
are some mobile networks which cannot
connect to 03 numbers yet.
For the
moment, it would be better for patients to
be able to talk to the practice, even if more
expensively than by using a landline, than
not at all. Pending the outcome of the
government’s deliberations and the
resolution of such technical challenges, we
would advise practices that have not yet
made the change to delay yet longer until
the way becomes clearer.
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #668 - Apr 7th, 2009 at 12:06am
 
http://www.marstonmedicalcentre.co.uk/patient_survey.htm

Telephone

Your comments


• A normal 01865 number, to ring 0844 costs too much from a mobile
• The new phone number is completely unmemorable, if only the old easy to remember number could be retained or incorporated in the new, it would be a godsend
• Have a normal telephone number
• An easier to remember phone number with no choices. Same as it used to be

Our response

We know the change in telephone number has been unpopular and we did not change it without consideration.

Our old switchboard was on it last legs and we needed to find a replacement. Nearly every system we looked at now provides the facility of offering options for where you wish your call to be directed. The service we chose offered the best range of options for our surgery set up and whilst we would have preferred to keep the old number we had to change to move onto a new network with our new supplier.

The 0844 is a local call number it is not a premium rate line.

The new system does provide both the patients and practice staff with benefits. Patients no longer get the engaged tone and know they are being held in a queue rather than having to constantly re-dial during busy periods. They can also cancel appointments when we are closed.
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #669 - Apr 7th, 2009 at 12:51am
 
http://www.nimbuspartners.com/files/2008-TechTrack100_page_3.pdf

NEG Telecom has a call-management
platform that streamlines incoming
phone calls by using intuitive and
dynamic routing. Half of its 3,000 clients
are part of the NHS—doctors’ surgeries
and dental practices, for example—
while other customers include schools
and businesses. Its school line can cut
truanting by sending parents amessage
if their children have not turned up at
school, while surgeries can prioritise
calls by assessing levels of risk.
Led by managing director Dean Rayment,
the Essex company has had sales growth
of 175% a year, with revenues rising from
£354,000 in 2004 to £7.4m in 2007
.
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #670 - Apr 7th, 2009 at 1:09am
 
http://www.leicestercitypct.nhs.uk/paper_f_gp_practice_numbers-doc.cmsdoc

LEICESTER CITY PRIMARY CARE TRUST

BOARD MEETING
28 August 2008

GP Practice 084 Phone Numbers

Background

1.      In response to feedback from patients at the October 2007 Board meeting, the PCT committed to undertake a review of GP practices with non-geographic phone numbers to develop a better understanding of the local issues and to identify if there are any actions that the PCT can take to address these.

2.      In March 2008, the Board received an interim report on the issues emerging from the Review.  This paper builds on the material presented in the interim report.  It does not seek to duplicate the information already provided but sets out a final analysis of the scale of the issue together with an appraisal of the options available to the PCT. 


What is the issue?

3.      Depending on the type of line and phone package that patients call on, the cost of calling a GP practice on non-geographic number can vary significantly.  There are significant variations in the cost of calling 084 numbers from mobiles lines as well as some fixed lines call packages with the patient very much in the hands of his or her service provider. 

4.      To illustrate the difference, for a patient with a BT residential landline on a standard contract the cost of a daytime call to a 084 number is 5 pence per minute (inc. VAT).  In comparison, the cost of a call to a 084 number from a Vodafone pay as you go mobile is 35 pence per minute.  This means a ten minute call to a 084 number from a BT landline would cost 50p whereas the same ten minute call from the mobile provider described would be £3.50. 

5.      In addition, significant numbers of patients will be on low cost call packages, either with BT or other providers, which may include free daytime calls but will exclude 084 numbers.


How many people may be affected?

6.      Quantifying the number of patients across the City who may be paying more than the cost of a local call to phone their GP practice is not straight forward, not least because the telecoms market is both extremely competitive and in certain sectors dynamic.  However, it is possible to estimate the broad range by using a series of assumptions.

7.      First, we know how many GP practices in the City have 084 telephone numbers - 25 out of a total of 63.  These practices are contracted to three service providers – NEG Telecom Ltd (Surgery Line), NTL and Ecocall.

8.      Second, we know how many patients are registered with these 25 GP practices - 178,010 as at 1 July 2008.  Set against the PCTs total registered population on the same date of 350,726, this equates to 51% of the city’s registered patient population.

9.      Using these data we can then apply a series of assumptions to form a view of the broad order of patients who may be affected:
•      We know from recent local analysis of actual GP practice call logging that around 6% of incoming calls to GP practices are made from mobile phones.  This would equate to around 11,000 of the 178,010 patients registered with the 25 GP practices that have 084 phone numbers
•      Alternatively, we know from a recent Eurobarometer survey undertaken for the European Commission  that around 15% of UK households are ‘mobile-only’.  That is, they have mobile but no fixed telephone access.  This would equate to around 27,000 of the 178,010 patients registered with the 25 GP practices that have 084 phone numbers
•      However, we also know that this is not just an issue for mobile phone callers – certain low cost telephone packages exclude calls to non-geographic numbers.  The Eurobarometer survey found that 30% of UK households buy two or more communication services as part of a bundle from the same provider at a single price.  These packages can include television, fixed telephony, mobile telephony and/or internet access, with a combination of fixed telephony and internet access being the most popular package.  This would equate to around 53,000 of the 178,010 patients registered with the 25 GP practices that have 084 phone numbers.

10.      Although fairly crude, the above analysis suggests that somewhere in the range of 6-30% (11-53,000) of the 178,010 patients registered with GP practices with 084 phone numbers may potentially pay more than the cost of a local rate call to phone their GP practice because of the telephone package that they are on.

...
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #671 - Apr 7th, 2009 at 1:12am
 
...

Options appraisal

11.      Acting on the mandate given by the Board at it’s March 2008 meeting, the PCT has engaged over the intervening period with GP practices with 084 phone numbers, the Local Medical Committee and the largest single provider of 084 services to city practices (NEG) in order to explore the range of potential options.  The PCT has also retained the services of an independent telecoms consultant in order to access specialist technical advice and has sought independent legal opinion to review the contractual arrangements between GP practices and 084 number providers.

12.      The PCT met with NEG, the provider of the Surgery Line Service, on 16 May 2008 in order to explain the dilemma facing the PCT and to see if any workable solutions could be found for all parties.  The outcome of this meeting was that NEG is willing in principle to work with the PCT to look at how its existing Surgery Line System is managed at a practice level.  However, it is equally clear from this meeting and subsequent correspondence that NEG has little commercial interest in renegotiating existing contracts, for example to enable their service to be fronted with a 03 phone number rather than the current 084 number.  Whilst this position is disappointing, from a commercial perspective it is not surprising given the number of contracts already held across the city, the period left to run on each of these of between 5-7 years and hence the value of the existing guaranteed return.

13.      Given the commercial stance adopted by the main provider of 084 phone services to city GP practices, there are effectively three options that remain open to the PCT.

[...]

16.      The PCT could buy out all the existing 084 contracts held by GP practices across the City and then work with them to implement a new standardised solution.  This would be a complex, multi stranded solution that would require significant financial and technical support but it would be technically feasible.

17.      Strand one would require the PCT to buy out all of the existing 084 contracts held by GP practices across the city.  The existing 084 systems have been paid for via a leasing arrangement over a seven year period.  Legal opinion provided to the PCT and confirmed by the main 084 provider indicates that the leases would need to be settled in full in order to terminate the agreement.  Based on the average monthly payment to the lease company, annualised over the remaining lease period for each of the practices affected would suggest a total write off cost of around £500,000. 

[...]
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #672 - Apr 7th, 2009 at 1:15am
 
http://www.steeplemorden.com/uploads/MINFEB08-11February2008.doc

STEEPLE MORDEN PARISH COUNCIL

(Approved 10/3/08)
Minutes of the Parish Council Meeting held in the Cricket Pavilion on
Monday 11th  February   2008 at 7.30pm
Present:      Councillors:  T Turner (Chairman), A Alexander,   S Norton,  J Brocklehurst, S Traverse-Healy, J Jarman, B Spall,  J Hobbs
District Cllr Mrs Murfitt
In attendance:      Mrs S Walmesley (Clerk) and 3 members of the public

[...]

3.3 Change of Contact Details for Ashwell Surgery

A response to the last letter had been received from Dr Russell. It stated that she had personally checked the charges made when calling the surgery. The company made no connection charge and the charge was 4.96 per minute including VAT. Any different charges made to patients were because of the way in which their telephone provider charged for connection. BT charge for a local call was 6p for a connection charge and then 3.25p per minute. Therefore a 3 minute call through BT would be 15.75p and a call to the new surgery line would be 14.88p. The Practice Manager, Mrs Stapleton had been in contact with NEG and they had agreed to formulate a comprehensive reply, and if necessary someone from the company would talk to the Parish Council about the charges. Councillors were still concerned about the connection charge of 6p for calls to the surgery, not only for BT calls but for calls on most of the tariffs. The Clerk was asked to reply to the Surgery advising of this and invite a surgery and NEG representative to speak to the Councillors.

[...]
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #673 - Apr 7th, 2009 at 12:02pm
 
http://www.somersetlmc.co.uk/documents/newsletters/2007/Issue%20%20130%20Februar...

“SURGERY LINE” TELEPHONE SYSTEMS

Worth a look if you are thinking about changing or upgrading your phone system

Replacing your telephone system with up to date technology can be very costly, and a company called NEG Surgery Line has come up with an ingenious way in which you can offset the cost. They have negotiated a bulk agreement with some non-BT telecoms providers to purchase call capacity at less than the BT local call rate. Callers to the surgery continue to pay the present BT charge, and the difference potentially provides for both the practice’s costs and the company’s profits without the caller having to pay extra.

NEG now provide phone systems for many hundreds of practices, and as patients are not paying a premium charge, the Department of Health is happy with the system. NEG install new branded phone hardware (which can include things like cordless headsets) and set up the system to match your needs. Incoming calls are picked up by the Surgery Line software and stacked or forwarded according to your requirements. Crucially, the system is flexible enough to accommodate the Monday morning peak as well as a direct transfer to the OOH service or other numbers. It also has useful extras like a 6 hour power back up supply, integrated panic button and on demand call recording. For a fairly modest subscription this can be extended to full recording of all calls. NEG also reckon to be able to offer very competitive charges for outgoing calls as well, but you will still need an ADSL/ISDN line and, of course, a BT connection.

The biggest hurdle is the need to change your phone number to an 0844 “lo-call” one, though NEG say they will leave a redirect message on your old number “for ever” if you wish. Also, the best deal comes with a 7 year contract, and the calculation that many practices can have a “nil-cost” system is based on this assumption. Patients who have call packages like BT Option 3 or Talk-talk will pay more because 0844 calls are excluded from flat rate packages. And despite the benefit to callers of virtual call stacking when the lines are busy, the LMC is well aware of how irksome it is having to wait for up to a minute at the start of a call whilst some disembodied voice goes through a series if irrelevant options before you actually join the queue – and knowing that you are paying for the privilege of doing so. So, if you are planning a surgery move or a major phone upgrade, this is worth a look: practices using Surgery Line confirm that NEG is an efficient and responsive company. But if you are reasonably happy with what you have, we do not think that the benefits will outweigh the costs, at least for now.
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #674 - Apr 8th, 2009 at 2:01am
 
A news piece dated 6 Aprill covering the No 10 petition is found in Healthcare Republic:

Petition urges ban of 08 numbers in NHS

The comments that have been added make this worthy of inclusion in this thread.
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