Now BT has followed the other firms into having one rate for all geographical numbers, with everyone on a version of BT Together, then the titles for 0845 and 0870 numbers are no longer correct, as there is no such thing as local or distance calls.

For this reason those codes should be retitled, and my suggestions are.

0870 - Mini Premium Rate
0845 - Micro Premium Rate

I would suggest:-

0870/0845  COVERT Premium Rate.

This is what they actually are !!

But I agree with the principle, however Mini and Micro does suggest 'small' - and certainly nearly 8p/min for 0870  compared with 0.5p/min for 'ordinary' numbers can hardly be 'Mini'?
Also, of course, we must remember 0870 can put you in a queue and 'musak' you (or whatever!) to increase their profit - premium numbers cannot.
So 'Covert' it must be ;D

Whilst I agree that BT has engineered this nonsense, I believe it is upto Oftel/Ofcom to set rules. BT is only operating as a business. The fact that choice and competition push prices down is a load of nonsense the government use to sell off our utilities.

There should be an investigation into how this has been allowed to happen. Why did no-one in the Ofcom office realise this was about to happen?

Ofcom is there simply to satisfy its own ends!

Unfortunately, it's chocolate fireguard time where Ofcom is concerned - see their (non) reply to my complaint on this subject:
Quote:

11 Aug 2004                           Dear Mr Heinz Thank you for your email to Ofcom.  In this you complained about the misleading use of the term “National” rate for calls to non-geographic 0870 numbers, now that BT has reduced the cost of calls to national geographic numbers following its BT Together price changes. By way of background, I should explain that 0845/0870 numbers are known as Number Translation Services (NTS) ie the non-geographic number sits on top of a geographic number.  The NTS regime was created to encourage the provision of innovative value added services by terminating operators and service providers.     Ofcom is aware of consumer concerns that they might be misled on the promotion and marketing of both 0845 and 0870 numbers and we also share concern about their proliferation.  On 29 April 2004, Ofcom issued a statement and announced a further consultation on 0845/0870 retail pricing.   Following this we are now actively working with advertising regulators and consumer bodies to agree how the prices for these calls should be advertised.   We are also re-examining the way in which the entire NTS regime operates and will be consulting widely on our proposals in the early autumn.  One of the possible options could be to require originating providers to provide price warnings of the prices of NTS calls before connecting the call but we have not finalised any views yet. If you wanted to see a copy of the Ofcom statement and further consultation it can be found at http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations/past/0845/?a=87101 which is also where any further consultations will be published.   Yours sincerely Steven Parker Ofcom Contact Centre

Part of the Ofcom reply to Heinz said :-

"One of the possible options could be to require originating providers to provide price warnings of the prices of NTS calls before connecting the call but we have not finalised any views yet."

I think this could be a way forward if ever Ofcom can 'finalise' a view!!  But it would depend on the 'warning' given - being somewhat cynical I reckon it might be something like  "This call will only be charged at a national rate" - taking us right back to where we were!!
Come on, Ofcom, work FOR us - as you are supposed to.

The new titles for 087x and 084x numbers respectively, as set out in the modified National Numbering Plan, are 'Special Services Higher Rate' and 'Special Services Basic Rate'.  These are relatively uninformative, but not misleading.  If you see anyone advertising these numbers as 'local rate' or 'national rate', report them to your local trading standards department.

wrote on Aug 19^th, 2004 at 6:26pm:

The new titles for 087x and 084x numbers respectively, as set out in the modified National Numbering Plan, are 'Special Services Higher Rate' and 'Special Services Basic Rate'.  These are relatively uninformative, but not misleading.  If you see anyone advertising these numbers as 'local rate' or 'national rate', report them to your local trading standards department.

I (and, I would hope, others) will happily do just that.  Can you provide a link to that information?

The numbering plan is here

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/licensing_numbering/numbers/num_plan_0703.pdf

See page 12 in particular.

Sammy,

I think that this is a must. It would not be difficult for the telcos to do though I am sure they will oppose it.

The message should read something like below - X being the actual charge. Not difficult to do for Telcos. 0870 numbers should have an addition that makes everything transparent.

0845 number

The call you are making will cost you Xp per minute. This charge will apply even if you are on an all-in tariff.

0870 and other 'premium'  numbers addition

The organisation or person you are calling will receive some of the total  charge of this call from your Telco.

What could be clearer than that. I would be willing to bet that the Telcos will fight such a change tooth and nail and that Ofcom will not have the guts to enforce it. The Telcos will have all manner of excuses such as it is difficult and expensive to install, our customers will object (which customers?) etc.  They will not say that there real reason is that  it exposes totally the NGN scam to all callers. Their other cusomers know about the scam because they profit from it.

Quote:

for 0845 Special Services basic rate: charged (before discounts and call packages) at BT’s Standard Local Call Retail Price for BT customers inclusive of value added tax (the price charged by other Originating Communications providers may vary)

Quote:

for 0870 Special Services higher rate: charged (before discounts and call packages) at BT’s Standard National Call Retail Price for BT customers inclusive of value added tax (the price charged by other Originating Communications providers may vary)

Please forgive me for not reading the document and skipping to the above, but how does this help us all? BT removed Standard!

So what does "BT’s Standard Local Call Retail Price" mean and how can I be charged it for all of my calls, instead of the "discount" BT Together?  :-X

Back to square one.......  ::)

Quote:

Special Services higher rate: charged (before discounts and call packages) at BT's Standard National Call Retail Price...

What discounts or call packages can apply to 0870 anyway? Friends and family can't be used for 0870, and they've done away with inclusive call allowance (increasing my quarterly bill by £6 in effect). And as we know, none of the special call packages include non-geographical numbers.

I have a great idea, though, next time BT call me to hassle me to have a different package. I'll ask which is the cheapest for 0870 numbers!

It seems to me that the objections to O845 and 0870 numbers can be listed under 6 headings

1. The price structure is not transparent  and most consumers are either ignorant or confused.

2. These calls are excluded fom 'all-in' tarriffs

3. The charges for these calls contain an amount that customers are paying to the service provider - a surcharge if not a premium.

4. These special service numbers are being increasingly used to replace normal customer services which previously were inefficient but free. Consumers cannot see that there is any 'special service' element.

5. The time taken  i.e the menus,music etc get to a human appears to be increasing to the advantage of service providers. The efficiency of call centres has decreased  and the costs  to consumers have risen.

6. Service providers are progressively withdrawing geographical numbers.

Why not complain to OFCOM if you can find out how to do that? Tell me if you can find a way to do it online

Dave,

BT do still have a 'standard' tariff which you can get on their online price list.  It applies to a tiny minority of customers (ISDN and Home Highway, I think).  This is the benchmark rate for these BT customers, but not for anyone else.  Which is why OFCOM state that the designations in the Numbering Plan are not to be used as price indications.  In fact, 'Special Services Basic/Higher Rate' would be OK as price indications, but any derivative of 'national rate' or 'local rate' would not.

Of pelham9's list of objections, only number 1 has been addressed at all (that is, consumers being misled about the cost of calls).  Even before the new numbering plan, it would have been misleading, and therefore illegal, to advertise 0870 as 'national rate' or 0845 as 'local rate'.  The law is the Consumer Protection Act 1987 (s.20), and it is enforced by your local Trading Standards department.

wrote on Aug 26^th, 2004 at 9:48am:

Dave, BT do still have a 'standard' tariff which you can get on their online price list.  It applies to a tiny minority of customers (ISDN and Home Highway, I think).  This is the benchmark rate for these BT customers, but not for anyone else.  ....

Oh, that's OK (and not misleading) then. ::)

What I would like to know is how this has been allowed to happen. Why did Oftel/Ofcom not put in place stricter rules?

Afterall, these numbers should cost the same as geographical calls and nothing more.

Thing is, no-one at Ofcom answers these sorts of questions.

Although OFCOM's recent review was ostensibly about the 'retail price' of 084x/087x numbers, it had little to do with 'retail price'.  It only dealt with 'retail price' for the tiny minority of customers on BT Standard.  OFCOM's view is that they can't enforce price caps on non-dominant operators (BT's view was the opposite).  The numbering plan makes it clear that the definitions in it are not to be used for marketing purposes.

Maybe OFCOM (and OFTEL before them, as a Thatcher-era regulator) see themselves primarily as economic regulators, with consumer protection as a secondary function.  So as long as no-one's being misled (which is addressed by the new numbering plan), then the main role is to stimulate competition, the free market blah blah blah.  All very muddle-headed, but driven by a flawed political ideology.

But why should these numbers cost the same as geo calls?  If they did, there'd be no incentive to companies to use them (aside from the somewhat spurious 'advantages' quoted by some marketers, e.g. that it makes your company look 'big').  It's possible to divert geo numbers just as it is to route non-geo numbers, although perhaps more expensive.

Don't get me wrong, I loathe having to use the numbers as much as anyone on this forum!

OFCOM are to produce guidance on advertising 084x/087x numbers.  Pressure them to include, in the guidance, a firm recommendation that advertisers always quote an alternative number.  Even if only a proportion of advertisers pick up on this (perhaps ones who take the numbers mainly for 'image' rather than revenue share -- mostly 0845), public awareness might increase and people will be more inclined to start asking for alternatives?