I recently phoned someone, on a business matter, and mistook their 07074 number for a mobile one. I try not to call mobiles or non-geographics on our landline because we pay an inclusive monthly rate, but had to make this call. Naturally I make as much use as I can of "saynoto0870.com" to find an equivalent, but didn't do so this time.

The call I made lasted 13+ minutes and cost me over £5!

Needless to say I was not best pleased. My landline provider listed it as "Pers Numb3".

Has anybody else come across this number format, and is there a way round it?

T.I.A for any help.

Tony Norton

Personal numbers are often sold by the same companies who sell 08 numbers. They cost ~50p per minute, but don't usually raise income for the person receiving the call. The idea is that the number can easily be redirected to wherever the person is, be it on a landline or a mobile.

The number is simply being translated into a geographic or mobile number, so as with all the numbers on this site, if you can find that number there's nothing to stop you calling it directly.

As the user probably isn't making any money out of the arrangement, there's no reason why they shouldn't give you their current "real" number if you ask nicely.

Thanks for that.  :) I'll remember in future.

Tony N

rules on Personal Numbers ah that the end user is not allowed to recive income from the call (oftel as it was).

However if your 070 Personal number is in fact your younger 2 year old sisters your entitled to recive a percentage of the number

I have an 07005 and 07090 redirecting to my office then after 5 rings redirect to my mobile. It costs 50p min all times and I get 10p a min back in revenue but there not 'MY' numbers, they are my brothers!

Yes this is what the PNS racket is all about.  

Previously revenue sharing and queuing was allowed with all Personal Numbers (PNS). They are not in fact all charged at the same rate. Like Premium Numbers they have a range of charge from relatively low to very high. Originally the highest could be higher than the highest cost Premium Numbers. Clearly particularly with queuing this was a wonderful opportunity for the fringe criminal fraternity. They began to abuse these numbers making large amounts of cash. Even Oftel eventually realised that something had to be done, since they received so many complaints that they had to admit it was more than the 20 or so which they and now Ofcom claim is all they have received concerning abuses with other NGN revenue sharing (e.g. 0870)!! Oftel therefore were effectively forced into a position where they banned revenue sharing with PNS numbers, but to wriggle as much as possible they decided to assist BT yet again by making the ban temporary only (i.e. it can be revoked at any time) and then to apply it only to the terminating subscriber.

Intermediaries of any sort may STILL receive revenue with PNS numbers however, so they can now receive ALL of the revenue which previously would have been shared between intermediaries and the terminating subscriber. This means that in practice the ban has not actually achieved anything, since ways around the ban may be devised, ensuring that the real terminating collector of the revenue is not registered as the terminating subscriber. Ofcom do nothing about this abuse, just like all of the other abuses, so it allows the practice to continue. This is how Sandco can collect the revenue by using his brothers or sisters being registered as the terminating subscribers.

Also beware of one other thing. I came across another abuse of the New Telephone Numbering system recently. BT are designating certain 07 numbers as “National Rate Numbers” and charging them at a rate which it seems they themselves set, and which does not appear as an option in the current official Ofcom list of numbers and rates. How they get away with that is another example of how Ofcom do whatever BT instructs them to do! An example of such a number so charged by BT is “07836900808”. When I queried this with BT they stated, specifically in respect of  07836900808, “This is a National Rate number. A national rate number is a number to a company or a government billing etc. example of this a hospital.”

So where does all this confusion and anarchy end? According to the official Ofcom list the only numbers allowed within the 07 prefix category are: Mobiles, Pagers and PNS. It is time Ofcom got a very firm grip on all of this, and enforced the New Telephone Numbering system, but the likelihood of that happening is about the same as Blair ever becoming a competent Prime Minster!!

wrote on Oct 13^th, 2004 at 9:07am:

So where does all this confusion and anarchy end? According to the official Ofcom list the only numbers allowed within the 07 prefix category are: Mobiles, Pagers and PNS. ...

I thought 077, 078, and 079 was for mobiles. That means that the call ends up on a mobile. Orange are allowed to use their own 07973 prefix for customer services! I presume this terminates in a call centre with hundreds of operators. I am awaiting a reply from Ofcom on this one.

I doubt that they would want to upset poor old Orange and will leave it be.

As for all the different rates of 070 PNs, what's the point? In the same way call costs haven't been reduced with 070, any removal of revenue sharing with 0870 will just leave the telcos and resellers profiting more. They may then be able to reduce connection/setup costs, thereby allowing more people to have their own 0870. So they must get a grip on what price the caller pays as well as revenue sharing.

Hi Dave,

Yes, that is the point. Using 07 numbers for other purposes contravenes the New Telephone Numbering system (NTNs), yet Ofcom still do nothing. One other example of contravention is the misuse of 080 (freephone). In the NTNs all 080 are all supposed to be "Freephone" numbers. Yet most mobile telcos are charging for them as if they were normal chargeable calls. This is another contravention which Oftel have done nothing to address. 080 is either a freephone prefix or it is not. It ought to be the same throughout the total telephone system.

The reason there were different call rates for PNS I believe is that they were originally started (like all these abortions) by BT, and they it seems right from the start intended to use them as covert Premium numbers with queuing, so they arranged for different charge bands for different levels of supposed service (just like 09).

As for the abuses with other NGNs, that was my point - Ofcom ought to get a grip on the whole disaster. Revenue Sharing on all NGNs ought to be put back where it originally belonged in the NTNs - 09 only with no queuing allowed. Once Revenue Sharing was banned altogether (not only for the terminating subscriber) and pricing was left to commercial competition the problem would be over. Telcos should then be allowed to charge their own commercial rates for all NGNs. The price of all these calls would thus come down dramatically (as we have seen with 18866 and 1899). Then with the increase in VOIP too there will be that much more competition. What most people seem to miss about this whole problem is that the real reason the abuse was started was to deliberately ELIMINATE competition with these numbers. By refusing to take the proper action to enforce the NTNs Oftel and Ofcom have supported the non-competitive position, which is a deliberate avoidance of their brief and purpose.

If Revenue Sharing was banned completely with all NGNs except 09 (which was supposed to be the original point of moving all the old plethora of Revenue Sharing numbers to 09 in the first place) then the true and originally-intended benefits of NGNs could be provided at the same or nearly the same rates, with competition, as geographic numbers. Services (whether value-added or not) should not be chargeable on any number prefix except 090.

I believe that freephone should be free! Mobile and other companies only charge because they can get away with it. They offer free this and free that when it suits them.

It seems absurd that the caller pays normal rate for FF numbers and the terminating subscriber has to pay their normal rate for incoming calls on those numbers.

In addition, when on 'unlimited' packages, these calls would be free anyway, assuming they go straight to geographical numbers. Someone somewhere is pocketing the extra cash!

It's therefore pointless for a company to provide a freephone number if their customers are going to call in from a mobile.

So companies can choose the expensive freephone number or the very cheap 084/087 number where the customer subsidises it. What sort of 'choice' is that?

Some time ago, I saved THIS LINK and now check before dialling (I know that might not always be practical) any number I'm not sure about.

07074 numbers are 35.63p/minute during the day.

Very good point on freephone numbers.  Some mobile companies actually regards 0800 numbers as chargeable calls, and outside the free minutes.  Also, of course, making these calls during the day, when you have an off peak free minutes, means paying about 40p minute for freephone numbers.

Just out of interest, as companies have to pay for each minute of freephone calls, to their telecom company, do they in turn pay BT (or the telco provider of the caller) for those minutes, cos if so, it means mobile companies are getting revenue twice!!

wrote on Oct 13^th, 2004 at 8:23pm:

Very good point on freephone numbers.  Some mobile companies actually regards 0800 numbers as chargeable calls, and outside the free minutes.

I would like to point out that freephone numbers being included in the inclusive minutes on a mobile is different to being free. You pay for inclusive minutes anyway.

I know it's free to call FF numbers on most Orange pay monthly tariffs.

You  need to watch which freephone numbers you use with Orange. I know that they try to keep 'genuine' freephone numbers free. Any number which is used as an access number by a phonecard is usually charged by Orange.  There has long been talk of Orange removing the free element from 080 numbers.

I have also heard of Virgin blocking the 020 access numbers for phonecards. A few years ago, tmobile where charging for these 020 access numbers even when the free minute allocation had not been used.