While going through my current BT phone bill I noticed a series of unusual calls made in the middle of the night to an 0870 number.

I run a retail business and process credit card transactions via Alliance Business Banking. They subcontract terminal provision and maintenance to a company called Ingenico.

Guess what. Ingenico have programmed their machines to call an 0870 number for "diagnostic" purposes. They are currently introducing chip and pin but are having software problems which seem to have delayed chip and pin implementation and resulted in a lot more "diagnostic calls".

Alliance business banking (0161....) say it's nothing to do with them and to call Ingenico on an 0870 number. Tried this and got music for 10 minutes.

BT have a blocking service but it costs around £5.00 per quarter.

Bottom line, a company with whom I have no contract (Ingenico) is getting away with programming its machine to call an 0870 number using my phone line with call frequency and call duration totally outside my control. Further, the cost to me increases in direct proportion to the inefficiency of Ingenico's product.

Only way round it seems to be unplugging the machine at night but then my credit card machine may not work next day.

And still Offcom do nothing......

Yep RBJ,

Yet another insidious example of how the scam is now exploding out of all control. It is now quite clear that Ofcom will do nothing, no matter how much worse it gets, until enough consumers wake up and protest more vigorously.

I believe the truth is that this now has become a Political issue. It will not be solved until a government gets rational and equitable control of Ofcom again. As I understand it, one of the key functions of Ofcom was supposed to be to represent the consumers interest, but this they are failing to do completely.

The number of scams with the use of all "revenue sharing" (generating) calls, including 09, will continue to increase, until a proper method for the subscriber to actively sanction an agreed cost to be incurred for a supposed "service", with some sort of PIN entered, is enforced before each transaction proceeds. The problem occurs because of the indiscriminate mixing and confusion of the cost of a simple telephone call, with the cost of a so-called service, without any confirmation that the subscriber is agreeing to this. This should of course have been implemented in the first place, but BT was allowed to get away without it. After all, where else can anyone charge you for a transaction which you have not agreed to enter into specifically, and which you have not specifically sanctioned? Only with telephone calls in rip-off Britain could this occur. Nowhere else in the world could such an unbelievably stupid disaster scenario be perpetrated.

You have probably heard that you are not alone with the rip-off you have had foisted on you. Other companies are using the same tricks, for example various satelite TV companies and TV set-top box providers are all pulling the same trick with the default settings on the SW set to dial revenue sharing numbers automatically at intervals, unless you change the default. It is all really a form of covert quasi-criminality, to generate large amounts of money.

Why risk getting caught committing real overt crime, when you can pull these sorts of tricks instead?

wrote on Sep 11^th, 2004 at 11:19am:

While going through my current BT phone bill I noticed a series of unusual calls made in the middle of the night to an 0870 number. I run a retail business and process credit card transactions via Alliance Business Banking. They subcontract terminal provision and maintenance to a company called Ingenico. Guess what. Ingenico have programmed their machines to call an 0870 number for "diagnostic" purposes. They are currently introducing chip and pin but are having software problems which seem to have delayed chip and pin implementation and resulted in a lot more "diagnostic calls". Alliance business banking (0161....) say it's nothing to do with them and to call Ingenico on an 0870 number. Tried this and got music for 10 minutes. BT have a blocking service but it costs around £5.00 per quarter. Bottom line, a company with whom I have no contract (Ingenico) is getting away with programming its machine to call an 0870 number using my phone line with call frequency and call duration totally outside my control. Further, the cost to me increases in direct proportion to the inefficiency of Ingenico's product. Only way round it seems to be unplugging the machine at night but then my credit card machine may not work next day. And still Offcom do nothing......

From Ingenico's website - http://www.ingenico.co.uk/index.php?id=22

If you want to find out how Ingenico's unrivalled experience of payment solutions can minimise the headaches of implementing a Chip and PIN solution, contact George Graham, Northern Europe Retail Business Development Manager, on the details below.

Address: 17 Ridge Way, Donibristle Industrial Estate, Dalgety Bay, KY11 9JU United Kingdom

Telephone: +44 (0)131 459 8800 (using 18866, a call of whatever length to this will cost you 1p)

Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321

Email: info@ingenico.co.uk

wrote on Sep 13^th, 2004 at 8:36am:

Yep RBJ, As I understand it, one of the key functions of Ofcom was supposed to be to represent the consumers interest, but this they are failing to do completely.

In the energy and water markets, the consumer protection function (Energywatch, WaterVoice) is separate from the economic regulator (OFGEM, OFWAT).  This is not the case with Ofcom, so there is potentially an internal conflict of interest.

Check out the DTI website, and the current consultation on consumer strategy.  One proposal is a single utilities consumer council (i.e. for representation of consumer interests and for consumer advocacy).  If telecoms were brought within this regime, perhaps we would see the consumer interest supported more strongly as against spurious economic arguments.

Respond to the consultation, and Ofcom may be split into regulator and consumer council.

Hi RBJ,
In your topic you said Alliance Business banking (0161....)
Whats the 0161... number????? ;D

Hoxne,

Which particular consultation are you referring to?

wrote on Sep 15^th, 2004 at 6:17am:

Hoxne, Which particular consultation are you referring to?

'Extending Competitive Markets : Empowered Consumers, Successful Business' at http://www.dti.gov.uk/consultations/consultation-1231.html .

wrote on Sep 14^th, 2004 at 9:34am:

Hi RBJ, In your topic you said Alliance Business banking (0161....) Whats the 0161... number????? ;D

Hello Sproo
Alliance Business Banking Merchant Services Technical Help Desk
0161 491 7711

Note this is not the number for their Liverpool Call Centre for operating normal accounts.

This is getting irritating. I've had some success in avoiding 0870/0845 but this one has beaten me. Two recent calls were 10min and 12min long.

Ingenico send out thousands of machines programmed to call their 0870 number. They work for most major banks so choosing another Bank will not avoid the problem.

I don't have a contract with Ingenico but when I pushed Alliance, with whom I do have a contract,  they simply said that the machine must call the 0870 number. There is no alternative. Of course there is but no one will admit it.

Even if I were able to find the geographic number the machines are programmed at source with the 0870 number and there appears to be no user option to re-program.

I will mention this scam to Offcom but in the meantime my only option is to disconnect the machine  each evening thus forcing them to telephone me every time they need to do a diagnostic. I will still have to pay the 0870 charge but at least they will have to spend money calling me. On reflection, perhaps I should give them my 0870 number as a contact to balance things out.


:'(