I have been pursuing this issue, unsuccessfully with the Nationwide for a couple of months.  The key text of their latest (and final) reply is:

"We have thought about your concerns carefully and reviewed with BT the systems we use for members to contact us by telephone.  This review has highlighted that the introduction of additional numbers or a change to geographical numbers would be difficult to manage, and subsequently, have an adverse impact on the level of service we're able to provide"

Really the answer is - we can't be bothered.

I daresay that they may change their tune after the 0fcom consultation...

They reviewed it with BT...so BT convinced them to use NGNs as it's in their interest!

I'm a fan of Nationwide using it for both savings and business banking. I also get great service from the branch (who by the way who use Geo numbers). I needed to find out which overseas customer had made a CHAPs payment to me. I have to do this a lot as it doesn't show on the statement. They phone head office and phone me back with the answer. I said let me save you from doing this, give me the number and I'll cut you out of the loop. It was an 0845 number. I explained my position on 0845 numbers (I know I can get a geo number, but that isn't the point). So they went away to get the details. A few minutes later they called back and said

"My branch manager has asked mew to let you know that an 0845 number is the cost of a local call"

Poor chap was on the phone for the next 15 minutes as I gave him the long and short of it.

The message is just never going to get thru' is it. National Rate and Local Rate are ingrained.

Keith wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2006 at 5:17pm:

"My branch manager has asked mew to let you know that an 0845 number is the cost of a local call" Poor chap was on the phone for the next 15 minutes as I gave him the long and short of it. The message is just never going to get thru' is it. National Rate and Local Rate are ingrained.

You need to write to the Chairman and CEO of Nationwide on this issue as they both make a big point in their Annual Report of how they personally like to read correspondence they receive from their customers.  The key thing to ask on their 0845 call centre numbers is how rapidly they are planning to replace them with 03 numbers which will be part of inclusive call packages and not charged at Premium Rate from Payphones.

This will head off the argument that they have to use 0845 numbers for their large multi centre centre call units for routing etc.

See www.nationwide.co.uk/about_nationwide/corporate_governance/management.htm

I imagine jonathan.agnew@nationwide.co.uk, philip.williamson@nationwide.co.uk, bernard.simpson@nationwide.co.uk and stuart.bernau@nationwide.co.uk would be the relevant people to email.  You might particularly like to ask Communications Director Mr Bernau to communicate to staff that 0845 is not Local Rate.

Presumably if Nationwide really thought 0845 was National Rate they wouldn't be so keen on keeping their geographic phone numbers for their branches. ;) ::)

It's a pity that the otherwise excellent Finarea doesn't know either.

See 18185 and 1899 and 18866.

I really did not know where to post this & it is not much to do with telephone numbers but it does follow up on previous threads including comments on Nationwide & good news is surely always welcome.

On Monday, my student son lost his wallet containing, among other things, his Nationwide card.  After fruitless searching & reporting it to the police, in late afternoon he rang Nationwide (using the geo no without any problems) to report it & order a replacement which he was told would take a few days.  At this time of year we expected more like a couple of weeks.  I was amazed when, in this morning's post (Thursday), his replacement card arrived!

Does this prove, as many here must feel, that companies which use or include geo nos are also more customer focussed in all ways?  Certainly the case with Nationwide!

Swings and roundabouts.

Didn't Nationwide totally ignore the last 0.25% base rate rise and leave all their interest rates where they were?

Heinz wrote on Dec 21^st, 2006 at 11:09am:

Didn't Nationwide totally ignore the last 0.25% base rate rise and leave all their interest rates where they were?

It was the increase before that they ignored but then so did loads of others including now highly uncompetitive Dutch bicyclists and life-belt throwing boys ING Direct.

After the last base rate rise Nationwide increased the rate of interest on their Esavings account by a full 0.25%.

I have just opened an account with the nice Icelandic people at www.icesave.co.uk who unlike ICICI seem to be a highly reputable outfit fully signed up the banking code and yet are promising to pay way over base rate until 2010 or something and currently pay 5.45% with no penalties or strings.

Nationwide sending out a new card in only one day is entirely typical of the generally good service of a body owned by the building society' members.  It is therefore they who come first rather than the shareholders. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

when contacting Icesave remember to use their geog. number, which they released with great reluctance, and which is now on the database: 0191 255 8377

lompos wrote on Dec 21^st, 2006 at 6:23pm:

when contacting Icesave remember to use their geog. number, which they released with great reluctance, and which is now on the database: 0191 255 8377

How do you know it was with great reluctance lompos.  Were you the person who extracted the number from them then? ;)

At least they did provide it in the end and I'm fully hoping that I will only ever need to deal with them online.  Certainly they seem to have shown a great deal of action on my account opening since I applied at the weekend and despite the Christmas post I have received two letters with direct debit mandate confirmations and an account welcome pack too.  My main intention was really to replace ING Direct with them because its clear ING have no intention of ever offering a decent rate of interest again.

Icesave's parent bank now own some extremely crusty and traditional Blue Blood UK private banks which certainly gives one a good feeling about them, even though Iceland is only a member of the European Economic Area and not of of the full EU.

With ICICI they may have joined the Investors Compensation Scheme but they haven't signed up to the Banking Code and if their UK subsidiary went bust you could still lose up to £3,000 or 10% of your money which would rather negate the benefit of getting 0.5% more interest.  Also I know its probably wrong of me but I felt comfortable giving various ID details from my Passport and Driving License as online ID decks without the need for any paper ID sending to IceSave but I really wouldn't have felt comfortable about that with ICICI, especially after the recent Channel 4 Dispatches program with horrendous revelations about sale of confidential personal data by certain staff in Indian call centres.

I'm still annoyed I failed to apply in time for the GE Money Everyday Credit Card that gave 3% Cashback on groceries and petrol (although in fact seems to give 3% Cashback on everything according to the MoneySavingExpert discussion forums due to an admin cockup on their computer system).  They have now pulled the card though and I expect its only a matter of time tlll they cut the 3% cashback to the 1% (or perhaps less) that my Conran Visa card has been paying for over 5 years..............

Quote:

How do you know it was with great reluctance lompos.  Were you the person who extracted the number from them then?

yes, it took several emails back and forth over a period of about two weeks.  ;)

I have to say a big WELL DONE to NATIONWIDE BUILDING SOCIETY for its latest leaflet about it's telephone banking, they not only have advertised the 0845 number, but also have actually put an 01 number in there too with the explaination: use if you have a call package with inclusive minutes

This must be the first company I have seen with this.

OK they still have a lot of work to do with all the other 0845 number they have, but it's a start

http://www.nationwide.co.uk/contact_us/telephone_numbers/telephone_numbers.htm

Ah this ties in nicely with my comments about them last week in being so efficient that they got my son's replacement for his lost debit card to him in only 3 working days, in the run up to Christmas.   I said they were good people and always very helpful on the telephone as well.

Barbara wrote on Dec 29^th, 2006 at 2:30pm:

Ah this ties in nicely with my comments about them last week in being so efficient that they got my son's replacement for his lost debit card to him in only 3 working days, in the run up to Christmas.   I said they were good people and always very helpful on the telephone as well.

The point is that you the members of Nationwide Building Society own it so it is your interest rather than that of shareholders that they are inclined to put first.  To be fair to Nationwide they only use 0845 for their national call centres (using geographic numbers for all their branches which you can get through to directly) because they are on several sites and up to now it has not been possible to offer call transfer and redirection across multiple sites without a great deal of inconvenience without using 0845 numbers.  This will obviously change when 03xx numbers are launched shortly.

As to Nationwide being the first to admit that customers with call packages do not like calling 0845 in fact they were beaten to it just before Chrismas by www.aceinternet.co.uk who released their main 0161 geographic number as an alternative on their website specifically because they said 0161 was not liked by customers with inclusive call packages (also mentioned in their press release in the thread I started on this topic).

Also the ISP www.vivaciti.co.uk has just said they will be changing from 0870 numbers to 0800 numbers as a direct result of the thread I started relating to rival Entanet ISP Freeola using 0871 numbers and calling them National Rate that then developed into a wider discussion of the calling costs to contact all the various Entanet ISP resellers including ADSL24 (already 0800), UKFSN (London 020) and the rest (all previously 0845, 0870 or 0871).

So little by little the message gets through in some places.  The main scandal is Ofcom not taking advertising saying 0845 and 0870 are not Local/National rate and will cost you extra if you have an inclusive call package and off peak.  They will have no excuse for not doing this once they make 037 numbers available and I for one will be making various FOI enquiries asking what their plans are for taking such advertising.

Nationwide have clearly taken noteice of the 08xx problem. At least 2 and a half cheers also to Firstdirect who make no secret of their geo number for phone banking.

http://www.firstdirect.com/contact_us.shtml

It's not prominently displayed in all their literature but they don't attempt to conceal it either.

To be fair, Firstdirect have been using 0845 (previously 0345) since 1989 when it offered a genuine advantage to customers who didn't have to pay something like 11p/minute (I think it was that much then for a call in the morning) for a national rate call from much of the country.

Oh lord, NGM; Ofcom to introduce 037?
Right let's really mess up the UK Numbering Scheme, rather than merely use 082, for example.
What a depressing start to the New Year.

Tanllan wrote on Jan 4^th, 2007 at 8:57pm:

Oh lord, NGM; Ofcom to introduce 037? Right let's really mess up the UK Numbering Scheme, rather than merely use 082, for example. What a depressing start to the New Year.

Come to think of it actually these will be 0345 numbers for Nationwide as the mad Ofcom scheme involves a special 0300 number for government departments that most of them will not use as they will be converting 0870 and 0845 numbers into 0370 and 0345 instead as this allows you to be guaranteed retention of the last 6/7 digits of the number.

I'm not sure why you suggest that 082 would be better Tanllan?  Clearly what should have happened is all continuing revenue share numbers moving from 08 to 09 or possibly a separate lower cost previously unused revenue share indicating prefix like 06.  Meanwhile 08 would have become a home as it originally was only for Freephone numbers and all non geographic numbers not involving a revenue share and included in fixed price calling plans should have been moved on to 03 or 04 according to one's preference (04 surely the better choice as it has no historic use so unlikely to cause confusion with the old 0345 that was not part of bundled call minutes etc at the time).

Anyhow its good to know you are still there Tanllan.  Having had no missives from you in the post in recent times I had begun to think you had perhaps thrown in the towel on the whole struggle.  Speaking of which I wonder how mc661 carries out his campaigning in this area these days.  And what news of our at one time prolific contributor Juby? :-/

082?
Really thinking of retaining 03X for geographic expansion and using another part of 08X for non-geog numbering, whilst allowing 087's and 084's revenue "sharing" to die. Rather like 0891 was used when 0898 had been "sullied".

Tanllan wrote on Jan 5^th, 2007 at 7:15pm:

082? Really thinking of retaining 03X for geographic expansion and using another part of 08X for non-geog numbering, whilst allowing 087's and 084's revenue "sharing" to die. Rather like 0891 was used when 0898 had been "sullied".

But 08 should be for Freephone only use so people would still be confused.

04 has never been used for phone numbers so why not put all NGNs charged at geographic rates on that code whilst keeping 03 for future GN expansion if/when 02 is ever exhausted.  That is if calling something resembling an email address instead hasn't become more common that phone numbers by that time.

Yup, WELL DONE, NATIONWIDE.

If all their (so called) advisers are busy, they now provide the facility to leave a number and they will call back.

The nice thing is, they did ;D

At Nationwide the customer is still King. [smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=dankk2.gif] [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]

Tanllan wrote on Jan 4^th, 2007 at 8:57pm:

Oh lord, NGM; Ofcom to introduce 037? Right let's really mess up the UK Numbering Scheme, rather than merely use 082, for example. What a depressing start to the New Year.

082 is used already for schools dial up internet access. Calls to these numbers are free for registered schools for a certain ammount of time each day.

Thinking of changing from Barclays to Nationwide after hearing this.... I notice Barclays or Halifax arent too forthcoming with there geo numbers.....

trubster wrote on Jan 10^th, 2007 at 9:38pm:

Thinking of changing from Barclays to Nationwide after hearing this.... I notice Barclays or Halifax arent too forthcoming with there geo numbers.....

The best reason to change to Nationwide is overseas credit card use and overseas cash machine withdrawals.

The Nationwide blue Visa debit card charges no fee at all for use at overseas cash machines (however small the withdrawal) and the exchange rate conversion is also not subject to the 2.75% foreign exchange rate levy (hidden ripoff fee) that was sneakily introduced by virtually all other card operators 5 to 10 years ago.  Also Nationwide Visa credit card transactions at overseas shops and restaurants are not subject to 2.75% foreign exchange rate levy although there is a 1% fee for cash machine withdrawals on the credit card (still lower than the opposition credit cards charge) hence it being better to use the blue Visa debit card to make the cash withdrawals.  These cards also come in handy for buying goods and services from overseas suppliers online as everything is 2.75% cheaper than with rival cards.

Endorse NGMGhost's comments. I compared my Nationwide Cash Card to my Sainsbury's Credit card use in France last year and the saving on the different rates used was huge. For convenience I'll still use Credit Cards, but I now make much more use of cash abroad via cash point m/c using the N/w card.

The other benefit is that often with other cards not only do you have a percentage charge on withdrawls but you have a minimum fee which encourages you to take out large amounts at one time as otherwise the precentage charge is actually even higher. Because none of this exists with a Nationwide card you can take out amounts appropriate to your requirements e.g. a little and often and not carry around wads of cash.

Keith wrote on Jan 11^th, 2007 at 9:18am:

For convenience I'll still use Credit Cards, but I now make much more use of cash abroad via cash point m/c using the N/w card.

The Nationwide Visa Credit Card (not blue but Gold in my case) is also immune from the 2.75% foreign exchange rate levy, unlike almost any other card apart from one I think CIS launched recently.

So the rule is Blue Nationwide Visa marked debit card for cash machine use overseas and other Nationwide visa credit card (various possible colours depending which one you got but not marked debit card) in shops and restaurants.

Of course back in the UK I use my MBNA Conran Visa card for all transactions as it gives me 1% Cashback at the end of each account year on everything.   This is not a lure you in deal as Sir Terence Conran's design feature apart from a very pretty card was one that gave you a share of the profits.  Its been running the 1 % cashback for the last five years.  This is unlike people like Morgan Stanley who lure you in with high cashback and then slash the rate a few months later.

See www.conran.com/activities/creditcard.html

and

www.dooyoo.co.uk/credit-card/conran-credit-card/1029664/

Basically the card to use in the UK if you pay off your bill in full each month.  Not the card to use abroad as 1% cashback is less good than the Nationwide foreign exchange rate levy saving plus Conran card also charges £3 minimum cash machine withdrawal fee.

NGMGhost:

Thanks for that I will look at the N/w credit card for holidays.

In the course of an abortive session trying to get through to Nationwide Card Services (fortunately using the geo no NOT 0845 as have been on hold for 40mins without success so gave up!) I discovered one of the numbers in the database gives the message "no longer available".   It is 01793 556811 which now redirects to 08457 302010) so perhaps this could be removed.

Further to the previous post, I have discovered that NONE of the geo nos in the database other than the 01268 nos are any use for card services, all that anyone on the other nos can do is email card services and ask them to call you or try putting you through on the same no on which you have just failed.  On Monday, this is eventually what happened BUT it took the four and a half hours for them to phone me.   I pointed out that this would be no use to me if I was abroad and had a problem (their commission-free use being the great benefit abroad) and this was accepted.   I was told (1) Mondays are busy (2) there had been an error in people's bills so it was exceptionally busy.   Neither of these statements is true as I have being trying to get through again every day since then  as I needed to check something regarding my original request (also trying the Lost & Stolen no which customer service staff said they have to use sometimes when they can't get through!!) but with no success whatsoever, I am permanently on hold on both numbers.   I want to make a complaint but they have no email facility for this and the main switchboard seem unable to put me through to anyone in card services to take my complaint and main customer services cannot deal.  

Does anyone have any email link to someone in authority at Nationwide?  I have found somewhere on their website that the CE is Graham Beale but would be grateful for any guide on their email addresses.  I have always been impressed by Nationwide until now but this situation is an absolute disgrace.  If I had been abroad with my PAYG mobile and had a problem with my card, I could be in a dire situation.   Has anyone got any ideas?   Thanks.

I am afraid in my experience that Nationwide are one of the most incompetent organisations that exist and since they have taken over the Portman Building Society they has got worse. I have looked for an email address for their C.E.O. but am unable to find one, however I believe their email addressses end ...'@nationwide.co.uk' so you can always try combination of his name before that. As you say it does not bode well if you are abroad and want help.

Sadly this is typical of most financial institutions that we have in this country. Perhaps the answer is to holiday in India and knock on the door of their call center!!!!!



Good luck

For Nationwide Credit Card services the number is

BASILDON 01268 567213.

They outsouce to First Data Resources for Credit Card Handling, much like many other banks do.

There have been reports of huge delays phoning Nationwide recently as they messed up and charged interest on the balances of those who pay off their balance in full and therefore shouldn't be charged interest.


I'm sure they will be back to normal (whatever that is) soon.

Cheers, Des.

~ Edited by Dave: Please do not use profanities, even with some of the letters swapped around.

As others have stated here, I also have had severe problems with Nationwide as a longstanding customer of over 17 years. When you make any complaint about their failures now they just brush them off and refuse to accept that your complaint is true. I have had to complain about their failures to honour the DD Guarantee, failure to calculate interest on savings accounts correctly, failures with their credit card accounts, failures to provide various other services, and also their failure to treat their longstanding and significant customers with any respect at all. Nationwide now treat all of their customers as cash cows who can either accept their nonchalant abuse or not as they choose. Their attitude, like so many financial institutions today, is if you don't like being treated as an insignificant customer like dirt on the wall then you know what you can do! They have even had the effrontery to write a letter to me claiming that they only have to abide by the DD Guarantee scheme until the payment has been made by them from your account; once they have made it then the DD Guarantee scheme does not apply! I have complained about this at the highest level in their complaints process and they just brush it off and refuse to treat the complaint seriously, still claiming that they have not broken the rules! Eventually if you try to insist on a resolution they cease to respond to your letters any longer and hope that you will go away and crawl under a stone somewhere.

I am currently moving the majority of my funds out of Nationwide, not the least because it is now too risky to have more than £35 000 invested with any banking/BS group registered as one entity with the FSA scheme. They clearly do not care whether they lose investment customers or not. This may change in the relatively near future of course, as things get more difficult with more defaulting mortgages, but for them it will now be too late. Customers will not forget their treatment at the hands of Nationwide. The only answer is to act with your feet. They will certainly not now pay any attention to you otherwise.

This is very sad in reality, since they used to be an example to most other financial institutions until about 5 or 6 years ago when the rot set in. It seems they have just become too successful and too big! I have complained consistently about their use of disguised Premium numbers for contact and no geographic number being given, for all their service departments including credit cards. They have persistently followed the lying routine that they receive no revenue from the use of these numbers, and that they are only charged at National or Local rates; even when I have persisted in explaining that this regurgitated rubbish was inappropriate any longer, and there were now no such designations, they will not accept anything which a customer states to them. Until enough customers leave them they will now never wake up to reality, and like the politicians, even then they will not be able to understand what they have done to cause this! As with all other large financial leviathans, it is the senior management who are to blame for these failures, just as is currently being observed with Northern Rock and UBS. Totally inadequate senior management leads to totally inadequate and eventually failing entities. If you look at the decline in customer service at Nationwide it correlates with the change to the current chief executive!

Hi

The Nationwide have recently gone down the 08 road with the telephone numbers for their branches. I discovered this after looking on the Nationwide website for the local branch telephone number.

Please take a few moments to look in your local Yellow Pages and add as many Nationwide numbers to the database as possible.

Russell

Do the old numbers for the branches still work? Often these are disabled when an organisation goes over to 08 numbers.

Or are they replacing all branch numbers with a central call centre?

I see, each branch now has a so-called "branch prefix". This is prefixed by 0845 266 for the phone and 0845 586 for the fax number for the branch. It's therefore a suffix rather than a prefix (unless it's used for something other than phone numbers).

192.com still has the geographical numbers for branches, as will other directories online, assuming they still work. If someone can confirm they do, we can start collecting the numbers.

The geo number for the Barnsley branch still works - 01226 269000 vice 0845 2660820 per the Nationwide website.

I think it is worth collecting these numbers before 192.com etc start listing the new numbers.

Any thoughts?

NATIONWIDE BUILDING SOCIETY, 10 CULVER STREET WEST, COLCHESTER, ESSEX CO1 1NN   01206 280 200

NATIONWIDE BUILDING SOCIETY BUSINESS FINANCE, 10 CULVER STREET WEST, COLCHESTER, ESSEX CO1 1NN   01206 280 240

NATIONWIDE BUILDING SOCIETY, 16 HIGH STREET, BRIGHTLINGSEA, ESSEX CO7 0AE   01206 289 100

I notice the branch finder on the Nationwide website is actually on the Multimap website:
http://www.multimap.com/clients/places.cgi?client=nationwide_02

I wonder whether this is something Multimap have decided to do without Nationwide's knowledge, in a similar way to the restaurant guides that features a year or two ago? Or could it be a deal Nationwide did with them: Multimap are allowed to use 0845 forwarding numbers to pay for the map service.

Has anyone seen the 0845 numbers in use on any literature from Nationwide?

I think anyone who's a Nationwide customer should bring this matter up. They are a bit more customer-friendly than the big banks, so may listen, particularly if it's something Multimap have decided to do.

I have just got a receipt from the Uckfield (East Sussex) branch which gives a geographic number 01825 771900 although the Nationwide website gives 0845 266 1343.

I was very angry & alarmed to see this thread, it seems Nationwide is going the same way as all the other disgraceful financial institutions and phone nos were one reason why we left HSBC.

I have this morning rung my local branch on 01799 569800 (9 Market Walk, Saffron Walden, Essex CB10 1JZ) and the no worked.  The lady I spoke to had not heard anything about 0845 but spoke to the manager who had heard brnach numbers would change but not to what!

I then tried ringing their main no and after ages going round in circles (best no 01793 656000, ask for operator & input no data), I did speak to a girl I believe called Kylie who said they weren't going to 0845 but already were as one should phone the call centre as branches were busy(!!) and it was a local rate call.  As I began to explain this was NOT the case, she hung up on me.   Have now also logged complaint with senior supervisor/manager.   The Senior Supervisor was initially unaware of this change but now confirms that they are changing the platform for branch numbers and will be switching off all geo branch nos by June 2009 starting soon.   Apparently the only way to contact a branch without using 0845 after next June will be via Nationwide's swichboard!   I have also spoken to a manager who again trotted out the "local rate" rubbish - I put him right.  I have expressed my absolute disgust with this situation and referred them to this website on which there are many posts praising Nationaide for its use of geo nos, particularly for branches .  

I also intend to email a complaint to their Chief Executive & will post his details here when I have done this.

I also  think we should help each other out by seeking a reliable bank/building society which does still have geo nos for its branches and is easy to contact.  Nationwide have also introduced a rubbish new menu where a woman's voice asks you about your query, I said enquiry re branch phone numbers & was transferred to home insurance.   A ploy to keep me hanging on as long as possible?!   My call via their switchboard lasted over 30 minutes - if I had dialled 0845, a very expensive complaint.

Hi

Well at least there is time to get as many numbers as possible from the phone books etc before these numbers "vanish".

When I phone Nationwide's head office, I always use 01793 456789

Barbara wrote on Dec 16^th, 2008 at 11:24am:

I was very angry & alarmed to see this thread, it seems Nationwide is going the same way as all the other disgraceful financial institutions and phone nos were one reason why we left HSBC. I have this morning rung my local branch on 01799 569800 (9 Market Walk, Saffron Walden, Essex CB10 1JZ) and the no worked.  The lady I spoke to had not heard anything about 0845 but spoke to the manager who had heard brnach numbers would change but not to what! I then tried ringing their main no and after ages going round in circles (best no 01793 656000, ask for operator & input no data), I did speak to a girl I believe called Kylie who said they weren't going to 0845 but already were as one should phone the call centre as branches were busy(!!) and it was a local rate call.  As I began to explain this was NOT the case, she hung up on me.   Have now also logged complaint with senior supervisor/manager.   The Senior Supervisor was initially unaware of this change but now confirms that they are changing the platform for branch numbers and will be switching off all geo branch nos by June 2009 starting soon.   Apparently the only way to contact a branch without using 0845 after next June will be via Nationwide's swichboard!   I have also spoken to a manager who again trotted out the "local rate" rubbish - I put him right.  I have expressed my absolute disgust with this situation and referred them to this website on which there are many posts praising Nationaide for its use of geo nos, particularly for branches .   I also intend to email a complaint to their Chief Executive & will post his details here when I have done this. I also  think we should help each other out by seeking a reliable bank/building society which does still have geo nos for its branches and is easy to contact.  Nationwide have also introduced a rubbish new menu where a woman's voice asks you about your query, I said enquiry re branch phone numbers & was transferred to home insurance.   A ploy to keep me hanging on as long as possible?!   My call via their switchboard lasted over 30 minutes - if I had dialled 0845, a very expensive complaint.

Interstingly, talking about 'local calls'. When you look 'on line' to see your BT account, you can see what calls you have made and guess what? There are two headings, one 'other calls' and (yes you have guessed right) , the other is 'local calls'.  ::)

Just to say the email address for Nationwide's Chief Executive is:
graham.beale@nationwide.co.uk   This works as I have used it previously.   I would urge all forum members who have any business with Nationwide to email him asap to try and make them re-think before they start switching off the existin numbers.

There is also a link (not on the main Nationwide website) to obtain all senior management details, perhaps they should all have a copy of complaints? It is:
www.nationwide.co.uk/about_nationwide/corporate_governance/management
if this is helpful to anyone.

Hi there!

With regards to the Nationwide Building Society in Ipswich the geo number is 01473 580900, however the ' incorrect number ' is 0845 2660654.  I must inform you, that this geo number still works and goes through to a UK call centre.

James Bond

I have joined all threads on Nationwide together.

Barbara has asked me to post on her behalf, a response she has received:


Quote:

Thank you for your enquiry which has been passed to me for comment. The issue of phone numbers is a complex one and what ever numbers areused there are winners and losers. On January 8th 2009 BT announced thatit was making calls to 0870 and 0845 numbers free as it had decided toinclude these numbers in their call packages.  Currently around 10.4million BT Customers (73% of their total customer base) have a plan thatgives them inclusive weekend calls, 3.2 million customers have eveningand weekend inclusive calls and the remaining 0.8 million have unlimitedinclusive calls. We do not have data for other telecoms companies but itwould be reasonable to assume a similar mix. There are other, technical, reasons why adopting geographic numbers isnot desirable. As we operate over multiple sites we utilisesophisticated functionality that is currently only available onnon-geographic numbers. This enables us to distribute calls across oursites and provide us with functionality to immediately rerouted calls toalternative locations should a problem (e.g. a fire alarm or systemsfailure) affect a particular location rendering it partly or whollyunusable. Our decision therefore is to remain with 0845 and 0800 for the timebeing for what will be I hope you accept, in the interest of themajority of our members.

The reply seems to suggest that they have thought about the issue, but have missed out on a couple of important factors.

The latest Ofcom statistics show that BT's share of residential calls by duration has now fallen just below 50%. This relates on to landlines. Unless Nationwide members are atypical, an approach designed to take advantage of a perverse discounting approach by a single provider, cannot be to the advantage of a majority of members.

Although some would dispute the suggestion that non-geographic numbers offer valuable facilities not available on geo numbers, 03xx provides the obvious and equitable solution for organisations such as Nationwide. This would ensure that no member makes a disproportionate contribution to the funding of the society's telephone systems on account of their choice of telephone service provider. As the largest Buidling Society, the principle of equity should be one that appeals to the Nationwide board.

I am not a member, so this is none of my business. It is for members to press this issue, as they are the owners of the Society.

Quote:

There are other, technical, reasons why adopting geographic numbers isnot desirable. As we operate over multiple sites we utilisesophisticated functionality that is currently only available on non-geographic numbers. This enables us to distribute calls across oursites and provide us with functionality to immediately rerouted calls toalternative locations should a problem (e.g. a fire alarm or systemsfailure) affect a particular location rendering it partly or whollyunusable.

These are standard lies used by 084/7 number using call centres for many years and are usually provided to them by their telecoms suppliers who profit from the calls to the numbers.

What is particularly monstrous in Nationwide's case is that they have switched to 0845 numbers for their branches only after 03 numbers were already available, having always retained geographic numbers up to that point (except for their national credit card and telephone banking centres that have always used 0845 for many years).  The history to that is that Nationwide used to have a Board of Directors that ran things in the interests of members but then its Board Members were largely replaced by the usual bonus hungry careerists that have got the banks in to so much trouble.  It is these people who no doubt suddenly were persuaded they could get their outgoing calls cheaper and free switchboard equipment and phone maintenance etc by using numbers they hoped to be able to stil portray as "local" and their telephone suppliers no doubt alleged were "local rate".

The position is simple.  If Nationwide find the benefits of call re-routing and so on (usually illusory and simply a lie used to justify the revenue share benefits that are the real motivation for the use of 084/7 numbers) so compelling they should switch to 03 numbers.  If 03 numbers are more expensive to run than 01/02 numbers in total terms after allowing for all ancillary costs then the society should revert to issuing 01/02 numbers for its branches.

The use of 084/7 numbers by a member owned institution that prides itself on not charging many other ripoff fees charged by the large banks (eg 2.75% "foreign exchange rate levy"/aka shareholders bubbly fund) is simply not defensible and I for one as a member of their Society am livid about it.

Worse still is that their staff are still widely telling customers that 0845 numbers are "definitely local rate" and that they are right and the customer is wrong if the customer dares challenge the Society on its use of these numbers.

As usual SCV you are acting as an apologist for the scammers.  I will continue to lack patience with you on this forum until you stop excusing the actions of the scammers. :o >:( >:( >:(

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Feb 14^th, 2009 at 12:24am:

I am not a member, so this is none of my business. It is for members to press this issue, as they are the owners of the Society.

Aha so your reasons for complaining so extensively about the use of 084 numbers by the National Health Service and their contractors (GPs) does not spring from any higher form of altruism but merely out of financial self interest then? ;) ::) :P

With reference to the latest posts.

If I were a member of an orgainisation and became convinced that is that was deliberately set on practicing deceipt in my name and to my fainancial advantage, then I would probably leave; especially if I were also convinced that its democratic processes had failed. I certainly would not seek to draw public attention to my reluctant, if modest, participation in a scam.

I do not recall having ever claimed that my campaigning activities were motivated by a sense of altruism. They are certainly not motivated by any desire for personal financial gain. I do not subscribe to the view that all actions must be weighed in terms of measurable financial advantage.

If I believed that all those who used 084/7 numbers were knowing participants in a scam, then I probably would not bother campaigning on this issue. Why waste effort trying to get a leopard to change its spots?

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Feb 16^th, 2009 at 12:11am:

If I were a member of an orgainisation and became convinced that is that was deliberately set on practicing deceipt in my name and to my fainancial advantage, then I would probably leave; especially if I were also convinced that its democratic processes had failed. I certainly would not seek to draw public attention to my reluctant, if modest, participation in a scam.

But the said institution still has the best deal of any bank or building society in the UK on overseas debit and credit card use so I fear that would be a clear cut case of cutting off my nose to spite my face were I to take the course of action you propose.


Quote:

Why waste effort trying to get a leopard to change its spots?

Surely we are in fact trying to expose the wolf that is so cunningly and deliberately dressed in sheep's clothing in the case of 084/7 numbers.

A leopard by contrast cannot help the fact that he is spotted as it is a genetic accident of birth and hence there is no point in trying to encourage the leopard to change his spots as it simply physically cannot be done.

One always has to be careful about mixing one's metaphors I find. ;) :P ;D

At the risk of accepting the invitation to mix metafors, I will switch to the anlaogy that was offered and respond in those terms. It must be noted that I am refering here to a view that I do not share.

Once the wolf has been exposed it must surely be shot, not left to threaten other flocks.

My point was to question why one would bother to ask the wool-covered figures to abandon their wolverine behaviour, if believing it to be genetically determined.

I campaign against the activities of those who I believe may be persuaded to change their mind and their approach to use of non-geographic numbers. I obviously wish for all abuse of revenue sharing numbers to cease, as I wish for much else in the world to change for the better, however I deploy my energies where I believe that most could be achieved.

Not only do I not see wolves behind every case of use of revenue sharing, I also recognise the risk of "crying wolf" (now I am mixing metaphors) too often.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Feb 16^th, 2009 at 1:40am:

Once the wolf has been exposed it must surely be shot, not left to threaten other flocks.

Few here would disagree with you however various Emperors New Clothes like parties who have been instrumental in their creation and their retention of course maintain that there is no wolf and that this is simply a new and more evolved form of sheep.  Or else they maintain that they have become attached to their wolves and do not wish to have them put down until they die naturally of old age.


Quote:

My point was to question why one would bother to ask the wool-covered figures to abandon their wolverine behaviour, if believing it to be genetically determined.

The behaviour of the wolf may be genetically determined but surely the behaviour of the wolf keepers is not. :-/


Quote:

I campaign against the activities of those who I believe may be persuaded to change their mind and their approach to use of non-geographic numbers.

And surely a member run building society that shuns the normal ripoff charges on overseas debit and credit card use should be especially open to the argument that imposing a hidden charge on its members to telephone it is not justified.

You now maintain you would after all like to see the abolition of all revenue sharing numbers in the fullness of time but you are previously on record in this forum as saying that you see no problem with their use by the private sector.

I sense some agreement.

In time we could perhaps return to sorting out who are the wolves and who are the keepers of what is normally understood to be a wild animal.

I recall suggesting that the Nationwide Building Society is indeed likely to be responsive to appropriate representations from members.


Quote:

I obviously wish for all abuse of revenue sharing numbers to cease

This should not be misunderstood as being a desire for "the abolition of all revenue sharing numbers in the fullness of time". My position, if it has not been made clear previously, is that the service fee associated with their use should be openly declared. There are many cases where no service fee could properly be levied and it is in these situations where their use must be ceased. I regard a failure to declare and justify the service fee, or its inappropriate imposition as abuse. I do not preclude the possibility of its justification in certain cases.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Feb 16^th, 2009 at 10:52am:

This should not be misunderstood as being a desire for "the abolition of all revenue sharing numbers in the fullness of time". My position, if it has not been made clear previously, is that the service fee associated with their use should be openly declared. There are many cases where no service fee could properly be levied and it is in these situations where their use must be ceased. I regard a failure to declare and justify the service fee, or its inappropriate imposition as abuse. I do not preclude the possibility of its justification in certain cases.

In my case they would have to be on a dedicated premium rate code (whereas Ofcom is permitting yet more wolves in sheeps clothing on 0871), there would have to be a pre-call price announcement, call queuing over 15 seconds would be banned and access to premium rate numbers would only be possible after PIN code entry and each member of the household who has access to premium rate numbers would have their own PIN code.  A PIN code would not be given to any household members who the line owner did not trust to act responsibly and/or repay him for the cost of making their premium rate calls.

Having sorted out the general positions of two contributors in public, perhaps I should make it clear that I would be happy to provide support and assistance to members engaged with the appropriate officers of the Nationwide in gaining a proper understanding of the position and in undertaking the necessary review of policy. Please email or PM me if there is anything that I can do to help.

Hi there!

Talking of alternatives for Nationwide Building Society, the Ipswich branch has gone from a geographic number 01473 580900 to 0845 266 0654.  I think, that all other branches will have had their geographic number changed to a 0845 number by now.

James Bond

Hi, there is another thread* on Nationwide started I think in December to which I added in January.  To summarise, I have been locked in dispute with Nationwide over this issue.  I have emailed the CE (grahambeale@nationwide.co.uk) a number of times and been treated with total disregard and contempt, as well as like an idiot.    Basically they have made their decision, they still describe 0845 as local rate, they are not prepared to change/reconsider anything at all, they do not accept this will disadvantage their members and, after 2 replies, I received the usual fob off of this is what we do, if you don't like it go to the ombudsman.  Of course, that is a totally spurious suggestion as the ombudsman has no power or authority whatsoever over the way Nationwide choose to operate.   I did, in the other thread, urge any and all customers of Nationwide to make their views felt.  I believe a number of forum members are doing this.   I do feel Nationwide need to be reminded constantly that it is their customers' money which keeps them going and pays their wages and that they make much of being a member-led organisation answerable to members rather than shareholders.   I also feel that this change goes against the spirit of their adverts of not offering good deals only to new members - in this case, members had access to branches and this is now denied unless they are prepared to pay a premium.   This is particularly pertinent as, if you look at their website, a considerable number of their savings/investment products are ONLY available via branches.


* Threads have been merged. The thread Barbara refers to is this one.

Hi there!

I and no doubt the other members of this will try and find out geo numbers, however I know that in this case with Nationwide B.S. will be hard.

James Bond

Hi James Bond, I was actually told that the underlying geographical numbers wouldd be "switched off" progressively, starting with some branches in January 09 and being completed by June 09, the intention being that there would be no geo no to discover.   I was also advised that I could ring the call centre and ask to be put through to my branch (far more efficient, of course!!!!!).  In my last, extremely angry, email to the Chief Exec, I did say I might be forced to email him every time I needed to speak to my branch and ask him to arrange for them to phone me (particularly as the only times I ever need to call is because Nationwide has made an error)!   Maybe we should all try that???   I also have the names, email addresses and current geo tel nos of teh Customer Servies and Member Services Managers if anyone would like them.

Thanks for this.  Decision made re the large sum the GL and I have in a Nationwide variable rate 3-year bond (now paying a miserable 1% or so) which is due to mature in 5 months.

They are clearly not a friendly society any longer and are now just more incompetent bankers!

Barbara wrote on Mar 7^th, 2009 at 3:54pm:

Hi James Bond, I was actually told that the underlying geographical numbers wouldd be "switched off" progressively, starting with some branches in January 09 and being completed by June 09, the intention being that there would be no geo no to discover. …

All 08xx numbers have underlying numbers. So the actual "underlying" geographical numbers cannot be "switched off".

I think what they are saying is that the current (or "old") 01/02 numbers will be disabled progressively from January to June 2009.

Heinz,  agree absolutely.  They are following an identical path to HSBC who ceased to have geo branch numbers a few years ago, this began the slippery slope to total incompetence hence we moved to Nationwide.    Nationwide are ending geo branch numbers and their main customer service has deteriorated almost simultaneously - last year their credit card number was inaccessible for over a week (both geo and NGN, even staff in other depts couldn't get through), they also now have a voice activated menu system which interpreted my request to speak to someone about tel nos as home insurance (that was not my first problem with the system!).  They no longer accept payments in branch other than for their own credit card,   generally they seem to want to make dealing with them as difficult, stressful and unpleasant as possible.  I have made the point to them about the appalling standing of banks - wouldn't they like to be different?   Obviouly they don't care.   Unfortunately, all banks seem to use only ngns so there is no choice.   You're right as well about their rates - awful!   How long before we have to pay them to store our money??

Dave, thanks you have raised a very interesting point.  I had originally thought all 08 numbers had underlying geo numbers but I seem to remember, when making this point about HSBC a while ago, someone senior on the forum saying that organisations could circumvent this by using VOIP which is what they thought HSBC were doing.   Could Nationwide be doing the same?   Or is it worth trying to find the geo nos?

Dave wrote on Mar 7^th, 2009 at 5:32pm:

All 08xx numbers have underlying numbers.

This is a very bold statement.

It seems to totally deny the possibility of calls being routed through some internal mechansim, rather than the public network, after arriving at the non-geographic number. We know that the public network is widely used for this purpose and that some geo numbers appear to provide access to the same intelligent network features as offered by non-geos. I am not however sure that we have all the evidence necessary to support so bold a statement.

In answer to Barbara, who also queries this statement. On the day when banks start charging us for storing our money, I will ask for payment for storing theirs.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Mar 7^th, 2009 at 7:43pm:

Dave wrote on Mar 7th, 2009 at 5:32pm: All 08xx numbers have underlying numbers. This is a very bold statement. It seems to totally deny the possibility of calls being routed through some internal mechansim, rather than the public network, after arriving at the non-geographic number.

Indeed.  For instance, I have two 03* NGNs for which there is no underlying geographic number at all.  They arrive at A&A (whom are acting as a telco) and are then forwarded (free) across the internet to my local asterisk PABX.  Yes, I have geo numbers /as well/ but nothing in the setup of the NGNs requires that, and indeed, they are handled differently when they get here.

I've also got an 056 number provided by one of my outbound VoIP suppliers.  Others offer 0870 / 0845 etc numbers, which would be delivered without the need for a Geographic number.  

Since Abbey use 056 numbers, which are definitely VoIP, for their branches, I would not be surprised to find they do not have any actual 01/02 numbers for the branches any more.  Nationwide could be moving towards the same sort of system, but using the more expensive number ranges!

Edit: One quick google later, and here is an example of a company offering 0870 numbers delivered via SIP (VoIP), so no geo number needed.  

irrelevant wrote on Mar 7^th, 2009 at 10:20pm:

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Mar 7th, 2009 at 7:43pm: Dave wrote on Mar 7th, 2009 at 5:32pm: All 08xx numbers have underlying numbers. This is a very bold statement. It seems to totally deny the possibility of calls being routed through some internal mechansim, rather than the public network, after arriving at the non-geographic number. Indeed.  For instance, I have two 03* NGNs for which there is no underlying geographic number at all.  They arrive at A&A (whom are acting as a telco) and are then forwarded (free) across the internet to my local asterisk PABX. …

So you have tried all A&A geographical numbers to prove that no underlying geographical number exists?

One provider I know of has geographical numbers allocated to it that are the underlying numbers to its 08xx numbers. They have the IVR on, just like the 084xs. I strongly suspect that its customers are unaware of these intermediate underlying numbers.

Here is a response sent to Barbara. She has asked me to post it on her behalf:


Quote:

Dear Barbara Following your recent emails with Martina Weymes, Head of Customer Experience, your case has been passed to Member Service for review. As I understand it you are unhappy with the decision to change our Branch telephone numbers to those beginning with 0845 as these types of numbers are not included in inclusive call packages. Regrettably, there is nothing further I can add to what Martina has said in her communication to you and the Society's position remains unchanged. These types of decisions are not made lightly though we believe the overall benefit to our customers of being able to manage our calls more effectively will help increase overall member satisfaction. I realise this will disappoint you so I am enclosing details of the Financial Ombudsman Service, from which you will see that if you decide to raise your case with the Ombudsman, you need to do so within six months of the date of this letter. Thank you for taking the time to write.

Dave wrote on Mar 7^th, 2009 at 10:36pm:

So you have tried all A&A geographical numbers to prove that no underlying geographical number exists? One provider I know of has geographical numbers allocated to it that are the underlying numbers to its 08xx numbers. They have the IVR on, just like the 084xs. I strongly suspect that its customers are unaware of these intermediate underlying numbers.

Hang on a minute, this is getting a bit silly.

The SayNo database contains many useful numbers, many of which could be described as being the “underlying” numbers to those for which they serve as an alternative.

It is a big leap to go from there to the bold assertion that “All 08xx numbers have underlying numbers” and to place the burden of proof on those who cannot accept that leap.

I cannot offer proof that some 08xx numbers do not have underlying numbers, but that does not oblige me to accept that they all do, simply because it can be shown that some do. I stand ready to be convinced one way or the other, however I believe that improper use of revenue sharing numbers needs to tackled at source, even if publication and use of alternatives can be shown to be successful in undermining it.

Source: BT

http://www.btplc.com/News/Articles/Showarticle.cfm?ArticleID=caeb40f5-d065-447b-a8a8-0a3b49a6b2fc

BT DC08-231                                                                                          June 30 2008
BT signs outsourcing contract with Nationwide Building Society

BT today announced a new agreement with Nationwide Building Society to manage its networked IT services in a seven year outsourcing deal worth £160 million. Under this new, business-aligned outsourcing service, Nationwide will transfer all voice and data networking infrastructure, third party network contracts and in-scope staff to BT.

As part of the contract, BT will deliver a service transformation programme under which they will consolidate Nationwide’s multiple networks onto its industry-leading 21CN Global network which will support both voice and data services on a single converged platform. BT will also deliver enhanced remote access facilities to Nationwide’s non-office based employees.

The new model will introduce a flexible commercial model providing Nationwide with cost predictability whilst based on industry best practice and a framework of service level agreements (SLAs) at a reduced overall total cost of ownership.

Traditionally, Nationwide has developed and managed its IT operations in-house and procured point solutions from external suppliers where necessary. This agreement marks a shift towards a preference for a multi-sourcing model for IT services that can provide Nationwide with a reduced overall service cost and with improved service flexibility.

Peter Stafford, Head of IT Infrastructure at Nationwide, said: “Nationwide’s growth in recent years has meant that our IT infrastructure has also had to evolve at an exponential rate to keep up with demand and we must now seek the most efficient and scalable infrastructure service possible to support this. Having worked with BT for a number of years, we are very confident in the team’s ability to fulfil our requirements.”

François Barrault, CEO, BT Global Services, said: “Our clients increasingly see BT as a trusted partner to operate the networked IT processes and assets which are not a core part of their business proposition. Nationwide chose BT for its ability to deliver a standardised, cost effective network infrastructure and a well-governed but innovation-led approach to future service management. In delivering this contract, BT will build on its unrivalled track record in providing transformational network centric outsourced solutions which meet the demands of the financial services industry.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Mar 8^th, 2009 at 2:29am:

Dave wrote on Mar 7th, 2009 at 10:36pm: So you have tried all A&A geographical numbers to prove that no underlying geographical number exists? One provider I know of has geographical numbers allocated to it that are the underlying numbers to its 08xx numbers. They have the IVR on, just like the 084xs. I strongly suspect that its customers are unaware of these intermediate underlying numbers. Hang on a minute, this is getting a bit silly. The SayNo database contains many useful numbers, many of which could be described as being the “underlying” numbers to those for which they serve as an alternative. It is a big leap to go from there to the bold assertion that “All 08xx numbers have underlying numbers” and to place the burden of proof on those who cannot accept that leap. I cannot offer proof that some 08xx numbers do not have underlying numbers, but that does not oblige me to accept that they all do, simply because it can be shown that some do. I stand ready to be convinced one way or the other, however I believe that improper use of revenue sharing numbers needs to tackled at source, even if publication and use of alternatives can be shown to be successful in undermining it.

:-[ :-[ :-[

The point I was making was that just because irrelevant hasn't been told about an underlying number does not mean one doesn't exist. To prove either way would be nigh on impossible.

I have no professional knowledge to say either way. All I know is from my experience finding alternative numbers. Geographical numbers do exist for organisations which are not published and which non-geographical numbers point to.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Mar 8^th, 2009 at 2:29am:

Hang on a minute, this is getting a bit silly. The SayNo database contains many useful numbers, many of which could be described as being the “underlying” numbers to those for which they serve as an alternative. It is a big leap to go from there to the bold assertion that “All 08xx numbers have underlying numbers” and to place the burden of proof on those who cannot accept that leap. I cannot offer proof that some 08xx numbers do not have underlying numbers, but that does not oblige me to accept that they all do, simply because it can be shown that some do. I stand ready to be convinced one way or the other, however I believe that improper use of revenue sharing numbers needs to tackled at source, even if publication and use of alternatives can be shown to be successful in undermining it.

In short, yes, every call to an NGM goes to an 'underlying number', but, no, not all calls to an NGN necessarily go to one 'underlying number'. It not possible to obtain a landline phone service that does not have a GN.

Whenever an NGN is dialled, the GN and the routing is obtained through a series of database look-ups. The GN might be the same for every call, but could equally be dictated by day of week, time of day, which region the caller is in, randomly to share calls between offices, or dynamically by the 'user' of the NGM. I could change at will the redirection GN of the 0870 number that is published for contacting me by using the internet or the automated menu system over the phone, and I can specify a series of GNs for use in various eventualities such as 'no answer' or 'busy'. Obtaining an 'underlying number' would not benefit any potential caller as I might not be at that location.

pw4 wrote on Mar 9^th, 2009 at 4:03pm:

I could change at will the redirection GN of the 0870 number that is published for contacting me by using the internet or the automated menu system over the phone, and I can specify a series of GNs for use in various eventualities such as 'no answer' or 'busy'.

Thanks to PW4 for describing what may be one possible arrangement for use of a NGN.

I am not however convinced that this is the only possible type of arrangement, i.e. that all calls to non-geographic numbers are simply routed to a "GN". It is implied, or stated, that the routing of NGN calls is always done at the point of origination using database lookups that provide the GN (or rather the routing that corresponds to a GN). If this were so, then it would indeed be necessary to have a point on the public network (i.e. a GN) to which each call was routed , even if that were not a single point for each NGN.

I have heard talk of an intelligent switch associated with the NGN, which handles and distributes calls as they arrive, possibly holding them to await selection of an option before deciding where to route them. If this alternative method of handling calls to NGNs were used, perhaps only in some cases, then surely there would be the option to route calls over a private network, e.g. using IP, to the point where they are answered, without having to use a GN.


pw4 wrote on Mar 9^th, 2009 at 4:03pm:

Obtaining an 'underlying number' would not benefit any potential caller as I might not be at that location.

Many of the alternative numbers in the "SayNo" database do not offer exactly the same service as those against which they are given. Some could be said to be equivalent to one of PW4s "underlying numbers", and so there is no good reason why these numbers are not in the database - perhaps they are!

I am not sure if anyone believes that every NGN has a GN equivalent as a simple alternative. Life would be so much easier if this were so, but I fear that we have to deal with the sadly complex reality of the world as it is.


On a related, if broader, point, which could be relevant to Nationwide. We all recognise the benefit that publication of alternative numbers can provide to those who use them. Can we offer any example of an organisation that has been forced to abandon one or more revenue sharing numbers, or to itself publish alternatives, as a result of alternatives having been published in the "SayNo" database?

I have read of cases where alternatives have been changed or disconnected. This could be classed as a type of victory, if the numbers were truly valid alternatives, if not it is a shameful defeat. I am thinking of cases where a revenue sharing number has been removed from the database because its presence there, with an alternative, can be shown to have caused it to be abandoned.

Another kick in the teeth for Nationwide customers!

Rather off topic of telephone numbers but in keeping with the general tone that Nationwide has decided to abandon its customers' interests & become like all other banks, this morning I received an update of revised credit card conditions.   They are now going to pass on some of the fee for transactions abroad which had hitherto been the bonus of having their credit card.  I am sure NGM's Ghost will be very interested in this as it is one of his major reasons for having their card.   This comes hard on the heels of their abolition of payment of interest on sizeable deposits in Fexaccounts (their current account).   So much for a member-led society!!!

Barbara wrote on Mar 16^th, 2009 at 9:33am:

Another kick in the teeth for Nationwide customers! Rather off topic of telephone numbers but in keeping with the general tone that Nationwide has decided to abandon its customers' interests & become like all other banks, this morning I received an update of revised credit card conditions.   They are now going to pass on some of the fee for transactions abroad which had hitherto been the bonus of having their credit card.  I am sure NGM's Ghost will be very interested in this as it is one of his major reasons for having their card.

Old news now though Barbara as it was covered by BBC Radio 4 MoneyBox and in moneysavingexpert.com's weekly email a few weeks ago (rather fortunately perhaps as I am not very good at ploughing through pages of new terms and conditions in tiny print).  Fortunately there is to be no change (at least for now) in the fee free use of Nationwide's Visa Debit and Credit Cards in the EU (or is it the European Economic Area including say Switzerland).  These charges will also come in outside the EU on not just the credit card but also the debit card too.  But Nationwide will still not be imposing any actual fee on top for taking the money out at a cash machine (often a flate rate £3 minimum fee with many of their competitors)

I do feel though that it is quite cynical and reprehensible for Nationwide to make this change mainly because they have lured in tens of thousands of new customers specifically on the basis that their credit and debit cards did not charge a foreign exchange rate levy in expensive tv advertising and with jibes at the opposition using the income on these cards to pay for the shareholder's bubbly.  To throw all that in the bin within less than a year rather than say 5 or 10 years later does appear to me wholly unacceptable.  Also I am at a loss to see why the EU is treated differently from the rest of the world when surely Visa must levy similar exchange rate fees from the Euro back to Sterling in the EU as elsewhere in the world and when surely the bulk of the spend on Nationwide's cards is actually still within the EU.  Perhaps it may reflect an actual change in operating practice within the Visa group so that transactions outside Visa Europe may incur an exchange rate levy not imposed in Europe.  This would still be a con but a Visa con rather than a Nationwide one.  It may be rather too much to expect Nationwide to take a 1% hit for non EU card use that they could not have anticipated when they implemented their exchange rate levy free card policy.  I would need to be sure of all this before I could resoundingly condemn Nationwide for their actions.

Looking at it all in the round my biggest objection when the other banks brought in "foreign exchange rate levy" was that it was never set at a reasonable rate that reflected what might be the actual exchange rate levy imposed by Visa and Mastercard but instead at a usurious level that was simply a back door way for banks to prop up their income on transactions that most customers only make occasionally so do not shop around for.  It is disappointing therefore that Nationwide has brought in a 1% levy outside the EU but I suspect that is much closer to their actual costs than the other banks charging 2.65% to 2.99%.  I also think the original attempt to offer totally fee free card use overseas was done on the basis that many customers would move all their banking to Nationwide.  Whereas in practice I think many customers just use the Nationwide cards when they are overseas (I know that I do).  Otherwise I use my Citicard Shell Visa in the UK that gives me 3% cashback off Shell petrol and 1% cashback everywhere else.

So I don't like it but I suspect there is some rationale to it, whereas the 0845 phone number move is plain outrageous when it was clearly sold them to by BT at a time when 03 numbers had already become available and so there was no excuse at all for using 0845 instead of 03. :o >:( [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif]

The below article extracted from www.moneywise.co.uk/news-views/2009/03/04/card-providers-scrap-fee-free-overseas-deals shows that it is really Visa and not Nationwide who have changed the rules of the game.

For the time being the Post Office card is still fee free worldwide but I don't see how this can last in view of the introduction of the new charge by Visa, unless of course their card is a Mastercard and Mastercard have not brought in these fees for non EU use.  Someone clearly needs to ask though why Visa feels entitled to now levy a 1% exchange rate fee on top of the large margin they presumably have between the rate at which they convert pounds to dollars and the one at which they exchange dollars to pounds.

You can apply for the exchange rate fee free Post Office credit card at www.postoffice.co.uk/portal/po/jump1?catId=19400177&mediaId=34100665


Quote:

Nationwide is to scrap its fee-free policy on foreign transactions for both its credit card and debit card VISA customers. For some time, the building society has been one of just a handful of card providers to waive currency conversion charges when customers use their cards abroad. For this reason, its debit and credit card offerings have long been recommended to people who want to withdraw money or make purchases on plastic while abroad. However, from 1 May Nationwide will start hitting credit card customers with a foreign exchange fee when they use their plastic outside the UK or Europe, while debit card customers have until 1 June before they have to pay this charge. It is estimated that over one million customers will be affected. The foreign exchange fee, which is charged to card providers by VISA, is currently 0.84% but will rise to 1% in July. After this time, Nationwide customers will have to pay £1 for every £100 withdrawn or spent while outside of Europe. In addition, Nationwide’s VISA credit card customers will also have to pay the charge if they make purchases from websites based outside of Europe. Thomas Cook, the Post Office and Abbey, through its Zero Card, all used to waive foreign exchange fees. However, from 18 April, Thomas Cook will start charging its customers a foreign exchange fee of 2.99% and Abbey has now withdrawn its offering. A spokeswoman for Abbey says it has pulled the deal because, in the current economic climate, customers’ priorities have changed. It has replaced the popular deal with a new 0% balance transfer credit card and also intends to re-introduce the Zero Card in May. Until then, only the Post Office continues to spare customers foreign transaction fees when they use it overseas. Lynsey Hallam, a spokeswoman for Nationwide, says the decision to start passing on currency conversion fees to VISA credit and debit card customers was made in order to secure the long-term sustainability of its offerings. She adds: “We are still one of the few providers not to charge customers commission, plus we don’t employ negative payment hierarchy so payments are used to pay off the most expensive debt first. When you look at what other providers charge customers, Nationwide continues to offer an attractive proposition.” Credit card providers charge, on average, 2.75% per transaction when customers pay for goods and services while abroad. Sam Owens, head of credit cards at data provider Moneyfacts, says the move by Nationwide is disappointing - especially as in the past it has heavily promoted the fee-free aspect of its cards. However, she adds: “Unlike many providers, Nationwide is covering its costs rather than making a margin on foreign transactions. It still has a competitive offering. People who want to avoid being charged this fee should look for alternatives now – unfortunately, this market wasn’t very big in the first place and now it is getting even smaller.”

On Saturday I had reason to cast around and consider if it was actually worth bothering at all with an ISA in the 08/09 tax year in view of the worldwide meltdown in stocks and shares prices and the dismal rate of interest now available on most cash desposit accounts.

I started first on the Nationwide website where I was outraged to find that all of Nationwide's true Instant Access Savings acccounts (such as Esavings) and its normal ISA product with no penalties for no notice withdrawal now only pay 0.5% interest or less - even if you have £50,000 in Esavings they only pay 0.45% interest.  Even NatWest Esavings pays 1%, even though NatWest have historically offered some of the lowest Esavings rates in the UK.  Cheating Nationwide also now try to force you open their so called E-Savings Plus account to get a still rotten 2% per annum interest but if you make more than three withdrawals a year on this account the rate of interest is slashed to a miniscule 0.1% :o >:(

Incredibly the story is the same on ISAs with ordinary ISAs that don't have a penalty for early withdrawal only paying between 0.25% and 0.5% interest with Nationwide and the only way to get 3% interest on an ISA at Nationwide is to take a 1 year ISA fixed rate bond with large penalties for taking the money out early.  Nationwide don't have any true no penalty instant access accounts paying above 0.45% :o

I therefore first tried to call my branch to discuss this matter and especially the huge reduction in interest I would face when my one year ISA bond at 6.15% came to an end on April 5th.  However when I visited the Nationwide website I found that my branch's number had been changed from the old number of 01306 651900 to 0845 266034.  Despite this I tried calling 01306 651900 only to receive a recorded announcement telling me the number had changed to 0845 266034. >:(

As I currently have free 0845 and 0870 calls with www.yourcalls.net (I am about to ditch this company and move to a company that will give me a cheaper broadband and line rental package who assure me there is no chance at all of them including 0845 and 0870 calls in the foreseeable future) I reluctantly decided to call the branch on the 0845 number (still sticks in the craw due to the telecoms middleman terminating the calls who then gets a rake off) to discuss the poor interest rates but on getting through I first queried the use of an 0845 number when Nationwide had always avoided them to be told it was "a local rate call".  I tried reasoning that it was not and that Nationwide were committing a criminal offence under the Consumer Protection Act 1987 ("misleading price indications") to make such a claims and were also ignoring ASA guidelines only to be told that the instruction that it was "local rate" had been given to them in branch "training" when the 01306 number was withdrawn and replaced by the 0845 >:( >:( >:(

I subsequently called the Nationwide Head Office "International" contact centre number of +44 1793 656789 listed on their website at www.nationwide.co.uk/contact_us/telephone_numbers/telephone_numbers.htm#general and asked why if they needed to have an "International Number" my branch did not have one.  To which their reply was "why did I need to contact my branch"?!  My answer was it was none of their business why I wanted to contact my branch but it could include matters such as checking how long I might have to wait to open an ISA if I came down to the branch that morning.  I also said that I chose Nationwide specifically because it had many branches and because it had always made a point of making them directly contactable on normal geographic numbers.  At this point I was then again assured that 0845 was "local rate" and when I challenged this she consulted with her supervisor who assured her that 0845 was "definitely local rate".  When I asked where this information had come from they said it was off an "internal information system".  When I asked could they tell me its name and the name of the document training staff that 0845 was "local rate" they refused to do so alleging it was confidential.

Needless to say I also did not get very far with my complaint as to why Nationwide now does not pay more than 0.5% interest unless you are willing to contract for at least a one year term with a 3 month interest penalty for early surrender.  I pointed out that NatWest's Cash ISA and E-ISA both paid around 3.5% but neither had a penalty for early withdrawal of the money.  The fact that the ISA allowance is lost for good if you withdraw the money is normally all the incentive that is actually needed to stop customers withdrawing their money early without good reason.  They just said well that was how it was now and down to the higher powers etc and not theirs to reason why.

So in summary Nationwide's directors now offer some of the worst interest rates in the whole uk savings scene for anyone needing an instant access product and its directors are also training its staff to systematically break the law in respect of the issue of 0845 call cost by training them to provide a "misleading price indication".  The fact that I regard the adoption of an 0845 number in 2009 (when 03 numbers have existed for 18 months) as outrageous is secondary to the fact that the directors are sanctioning the daily committal of large numbers of criminal offences by the Society's staff in the way the call cost  of 0845 numbers is described to members.

Continued/...............

Needless to say I am now absolutely furious with the complete ruination of Nationwide as a Building Society supposedly run in the interest of Members as it now seems to have been hijacked by the usual crazed big company methods merchants who have thrown in the bin all the good pro customer things with which Nationwide were formerly associated.  This also of course includes their credit and debit cards no longer being completely free of the ripoff "foreign exchange rate levy" for any transactions on these cards outside the EU.

There was a very interesting item in Saturday's BBC Radio 4 Money Box program about the acquisition of the branches of Dunfermline Building Society by Nationwide and this included an interview with Matthew Wilds, executive director of Group Distribution at Nationwide.  They also interviewed John Goodfellow, Chairman of the Building Societies Association.  During this program a number of interesting points were made by the program's presenter Paul Lewis, including the fact that the Nationwide now had more assets than all the other Building Societies combined and him asking Ralph Silver of Tower Group if this was really in the interests of Members.  Ralph Silver of course claimed Members were getting the best of both worlds. What utter tosh.

Matthew Wilds was also big on claiming that despite its enormous size there was no danger of Nationwide starting to behave like a bank or forgetting it had Members.  Points were also made about Members of the Dunfermline Building Society potentially being treated as second class citizens by Nationwide.  However as it now treats its own members so badly there seems precious little hope of that!  A visit to www.dunfermline.com/branch-phone-listing.aspx also reveals that Dunfermline still uses geographic phone numbers for all its branches, even though it has a centralised 0845 call centre number too.  One wonders how much longer these geographic branch phone numbers will now survive.  The smug Mr Wilds was very big on claiming that this latest fit of corporate ego by Nationwide had no downside for Members even though the analyst interviewed, Ralph Silver, talked of another third of remaining small Building Societies all disappearing in due course (presumably mainly in to Nationwide).

In short the whole impression given is that Nationwide is now an utterly greedy corporate monster of the bad old RBS kind with directors intent only on fattening it up, presumably so that they can pay themselves ever larger salaries and bonuses and also one day become super rich when they float it off as another bank (presumably just as we get in the next economic upturn).

Listen Again to the relevant part of the BBC Money Box program from Minute 7 onwards at www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00jgv1j/Money_Box_04_04_2009/

I have already taken the first steps to show my disapproval by moving my three years worth of Cash ISAs to NatWest (where they at least will get a decent interest rate without being locked down for a year if I need to access them) and will also be writing to Nationwide's ever more out of touch directors on the 0845 issue, the low interest rate for instant access accounts issue and Nationwide going back on their previous commitments to customers with respect to exchange rate fee free overseas Visa card use.

The fact that Nationwide has actually invented a corporate lie that 0845 is "local rate" when it is illegal to do so is beyond belief but no doubt reflects the Big Lie that was sold to their incompetent directors when BT or some other large greedy telco bamboozled them in to dropping their geographic numbers in favour of the great 0845 calls ripoff. :o >:( [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif]

I think the way ahead now has to be for those of us who are Members of Nationwide (like myself and Barbara) who also belong to this campaign to take the time to attend Nationwide's next AGM and ask some awkward questions to their Directors and also catch them during the coffee and/or drinks session before and/or after the AGM to continue to make our voice on this matter heard.  Is any other member of the forum a Nationwide member and would they be able to attend the Society's AGM held on a weekday some time in May in London?

NGMsGhost wrote on Apr 7^th, 2009 at 2:30am:

I have already taken the first steps to show my disapproval by moving my three years worth of Cash ISAs to NatWest (where they at least will get a decent interest rate without being locked down for a year if I need to access them) and will also be writing to Nationwide's ever more out of touch directors on the 0845 issue, the low interest rate for instant access accounts issue and Nationwide going back on their previous commitments to customers with respect to exchange rate fee free overseas Visa card use. The fact that Nationwide has actually invented a corporate lie that 0845 is "local rate" when it is illegal to do so is beyond belief but no doubt reflects the Big Lie that was sold to their incompetent directors when BT or some other large greedy telco bamboozled them in to dropping their geographic numbers in favour of the great 0845 calls ripoff. :o >:( [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif]

I hope you will refer Nationwide directors to the following sources:

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/telecoms/ioi/nwbnd/ntsindex/


Quote:

Committee of Advertising Practice guidance on advertising call charges for 08 numbers Prior to July 2004, the 0845 and 0870 ranges were designated as ‘local rate’ and national rate’ in the National Telephone Numbering Plan. In July 2004, Ofcom modified the designations to reflect the fact that most callers now pay higher charges for 0845 and 0870 calls than for calls to geographic numbers. At the same time, Ofcom advised that the ‘local rate and ‘national rate’ terms may be misleading and should no longer be used to describe 0845 and 0870 call charges.

---

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/oftel_0845/responses/leicester_cc.pdf


Quote:

Leicester TS carried out some research and came to the conclusion that describing 0845 and 0870 as ‘local rate’ and ‘national rate’, respectively was misleading within the meaning of Part III of the Consumer Protection Act 1987. Refer to paragraph 1.3 for more information. See also the Advice Leaflet by East Sussex Trading Standards in the Other Links section which makes reference to the same legislation.

---

Ofcom's 08 FAQs

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consumeradvice/landline/costofcalls/08faq/

---

Various adjudications from ASA and guidance from CAP:

http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1168385546/1#1

---

Trading Standards Institute Document 180805:

http://www.eastsussex.gov.uk/business/tradingstandards/detail.aspx?ref=180805&date=01/03/2007%2000:00:00

Thanks Dave.  I already have most of those references (although not a couple of them) plus some more of my own.

I have made the Stage 1 complaint by phone and am awaiting the predictable fob off reply by letter.  The thrust of my complaint by phone (I had the adviser read it back to me, even though he didn't want to and wanted to put it in his own words using his own misunderstanding of the matter) was centred on their advisers breaching the Consumer Protection Act 1987 by giving a "Misleading Price Indication" over 0845 call costs and the fact that Nationwide also inconsistently show "International" alternatives for their central call centres but do not offer such "International" numbers for their branches and have withdrawn the former 01/02 numbers from service (putting messages to call the 0845 number on them instead in true NEG like fashion)

When I get the fob off reply I will proceed to a detailed letter at Stage 2 setting out the full range of objections including the possible relevance of COI advice and the Varney report to a body owned by members and not a body designed to make a profit for shareholders.

I don't want to give them too many opportunities to correct their current criminal activities in the hope of making a complaint to the Financial Services Ombudsman (after reaching deadlock) and trying to get the Ombudsman to find that Nationwide are committing a criminal offence in their current 0845 call price description.  I don't know how far one might get with trying to refer this to the Police.  I expect they would try and dodge it without getting a series of recordings of Nationwide staff saying that 0845 was "local rate" and being told that they had been trained to say this by management.  Similarly I doubt Trading Standards would take action without such firm evidence.

NGMsGhost wrote on Apr 7^th, 2009 at 11:44am:

Thanks Dave.  I already have most of those references (although not a couple of them) plus some more of my own.

Do share these links as I would like to have them listed on Useful Links and References.

A search of Nationwide's website for local rate reveals some pages.

The Telephone Self Service leaflet, dated April 2008, states:


Quote:

Calls from a BT landline are charged at a local rate. Call charges from other networks, mobiles or abroad may vary.

Technically speaking, this is correct because from a BT landline, 0845 is the same as or less than a "local" call. This does not make 0845 "local rate" though.

I have also withdrawn all bar £10 from my Nationwide accounts, which I am keeping just to vote against the remuneration for senior management and against the auditors  being re-elected at the AGM as they are all part of same cosy club.  

I hope there is a choice for members  to elect a non board member for election this year, but I doubt it, it will be the old boys club as usual.

If you can, it may be worthwhile  keeping £100 in there, in case although it is extremely unlikely at the moment, that it gets taken over by a bank and usually from past events you get a pay out if you have over £100 in an account....just a thought.

Thought this might interest other forum members/users who are also with Nationwide.  Yesterday evening, I received a call from an organisation called Network Research who were conducting a survey on behalf of Nationwide into customer satisfaction with Nationwide's complaints' procedure.   I had been contacted in relation to my complaint that I had had "difficulties contacting my branch".   After corecting the inaccuracy of this statement & explaining it related to Nationwide's change to using 0845 (covert premium rate) numbers for their branches, I thoroughly enjoyed giving my opinions of Nationwide, its management & procedures.   I was also asked had I told others about my dissatisfaction &, if so, how many.   I explained that, in addition to friends & family, I had put the details on a forum which has the potential to be seen by thousands & that other members of that forum had also made complaints to Nationwide & received totally unsatisfactory responses.   I am posting this in case any other members/users are contacted by Network Research at some point in the future.  Anyone wishing for more details or contact details for Network Research, please PM or email me.

Happy Easter to all.

This may be of interest about Network Research. Also nice to see a geographical number at the bottom of their page if you have any questions to put to them.

http://www.networkresearch.co.uk/contact/calledbyus.html


Mind you Barbara, I am surprised you are still a customer of Nationwide, with all the hassel you have had with them. I would have left them long ago. Indeed, I have closed nearly all of my accounts now having received such terrible service at my local branch and when I complained to their head office, I was more or less told, 'take it or leave it'. So I left. taking all my ISAs and other accounts with me!

I'm with Nationwide and I'm not happy with 0845 numbers for branches, a practically non-existent interest rate on Cash ISA's and practically nothing back on my current account.

Just looking at MSE top accounts and both Halifax and Bank of Scotland (owned by same group but still look like their both trading independently) pay £5 net each month I pay in my wage.

I know it's just £5 but it's better than what I'm getting with Nationwide now!

Even their ISA accounts are better value than Nationwide now!

I only had a quick look and will check it out fully when I have more time.

Nationwide are going to lose customers over all this and I can see me going.

Hi, a word of caution about Halifax/Bank of Scotland.   Talking to my daughter at the weekend, she has had endless problems with her HBOS business account (she is also a customer of Nationwide & now rates them as "rubbish").   Dealing with HBOS cost her a fortune for their mistakes, they eventually apologised for getting things wrong but no recompense, she is expected to carry the loss, never mind the stress - it's a new & struggling business therefore she doesn't have the time for time-consuming complaints at the moment.   She has just switched to NatWest and been very impressed (she has used them for personal banking for years & had problems but says they are now much improved).   We also went to NatWest for their instant access ISA & were also impressed with the level of customer service (eg they remembered my name when I had to ring the branch the next day!) & are now considering opening a current account with them for use as a main account (retaining the Nationwide one nominally to preserve membership).   I know they use 0845 (but so do all the other banks etc), we were advised that it goes to a call centre after five rings so hang up before then & try again later but I was answered after three rings by someone who was able to deal with the query within less than two minutes.

Barbara wrote on Apr 14^th, 2009 at 10:09am:

Hi, a word of caution about Halifax/Bank of Scotland...

Thanks for that.  I will try and do some more research on their c/s.  Halifax/BoS use geographicals for local branches so that along with better interest rates (and getting paid everytime my wage gets paid in is what attracted me in first place).

A couple I am more than happy with, which I do all business on line with, no problems and they are Yorkshire Building Society and also the Coventry Building Society. Both are very well run in my humble opinion. :)

Is there no end to Natinwide's incompetence?   We took our credit cards with them in 2005, separate accounts but also as additional card holders on eachother's accounts.  At the same time, we sent letters authorising each to speak upon the other's account, this authorisation was confimed by Nationwide (two telephone calls from the same very helpful lady who had recognised the surname and put the letters together - impressive) and has worked fine - until this morning.   I rang to advise of foreign holiday dates, as they require.  They took the details for me but then said I could not do this for my husband as I was not authorised.  I pointed out I was, had been for nearly four years, had had no previous problems BUT it seems they have lost all record of the authorisation (I suspect because they admitted they now scan letters and the people/organisation now dealing with Nationwide credit cards are not the same as in 2005).   Needless to say I was furious, eventually a team leader agreed to add the holiday details to my husband's acount but said he could not discuss any other aspect and we would have to resubmit the authorisations before we could speak on each other's accounts.  

I have, of course, made formal complaint to the Chief Executive (again).  Now we are faced with having either to record deliver the copy letters so we have confirmation Nationwide received them or make a trip to the branch to hand deliver them for forwarding and request a receipt.

Barbara wrote on Apr 17^th, 2009 at 9:36am:

Is there no end to Nationwide's incompetence?

Barbara,

Following Nationwide's four hour website and online banking outage in the main part of a Sunday today (while their Online Service Status page maintained that all was well with no apology or admission of the outage when their website returned) I have indeed concluded that there is no end to their corporate incompetence and was moved to launch the following broadside on their IT director and relevant Nationwide director colleagues.

You may perhaps think I have gone too far in accusing the Society's Board Directors of now behaving in an increasingly "Sir Fred Goodwinesque" like manner toward the Members of the Society? ;) ::) :D


Quote:

-------- Original Message -------- Subject:      Service Status Page Fails To Admit Website Down For 3 To 4 Hours Today Date:      Sun, 19 Apr 2009 15:36:41 +0100 To:      peter.stafford@nationwide.co.uk CC:      graham.beale@nationwide.co.uk, david.rigney@nationwide.co.uk, marlene.mason@nationwide.co.uk, mike.jenkins@nationwide.co.uk, alison.robb@nationwide.co.uk, jeremy.wood@nationwide.co.uk, mark.gibbard@nationwide.co.uk Dear Mr Stafford, Along with numerous other recent actions of the so called Nationwide Building Society (which now behaves more and more like the worst and most greedy, out of touch, arrogant and contemptuous large bank rather than the member run building society with good interest rates on all instant access accounts, no ripoff credit card fees and local geographic 01/02 phone numbers for all branches that first attracted me to it in 2003) I must write to complain in the strongest possible terms about the outrageous corporate lie now being told by you and your colleagues in the IT department that your website is "Operating Normally" at www.nationwide.co.uk/contact_us/service_availability/service_availability.htm immediately at 3.20pm today after your website had in fact experienced a total outage for 3 to 4 hours (from 10.30am to 2.30pm or so) in the main part of a Sunday when many customers were likely to be actively using it. As one with a wide experience of websites and IT I find that the normal purpose of a Service Status page on a website is to report on and explain major service failures both when they happen and for at least several days afterwards so that those affected by them can find out the reasons for the failure when normal service is restored.  However it seems that along with the grotesque criminal corporate lie (under the Consumer Protection Act 1987 - Misleading Price Indications) in which all Nationwide front line staff are now being schooled by your new greedy and cynical board directors that this new Sir Fred Goodwinesque like method of running the Society also prevents it from owning up to a major technical failure by your department who tries to pretend that nothing at all has happened. Perhaps you would care to offer some explanation to your director colleagues as to why you seem to be wholly unable to specify a website that is adequately resilient to automatically rollover to a fallback server when equipment or connections for your main home page website fail.  Surely at least a simple holding page apologising for the failure and indicating that normal service will be restored soon is to be expected from a large national financial organisation in 2009 rather than either a 404 Page Not Found error or Proxy Server error that was being reported by your website throughout this period today. I could reach all other websites normally during this time on my computer and broadband connection so I can assure you that your website and not my equipment was at fault.  This can be confirmed by following the thread discussing your major website outage today on the www.moneysavingexpert.com website at http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=20810701&posted=1#post20810701 Perhaps when you have investigated the matter fully you can tell me why your Service Status page is not being maintained so as to acknowledge and explain recent service outages properly and/or at all as by definition when the service is totally offline customers will not be able to connect to the page to see why the service is currently offline and can only do so after the service has come back up. I look forward to receiving your comments on this matter in due course. Regards,

I have just learned from an exceptionally unhelpful and unsympathethic member of Nationwide's telephone banking staff that despite having received my written instruction from NatWest to move my ISAs to them within 8 days of NatWest receiving it that they do not intend to transfer my ISA from Nationwide to NatWest for the full 30 days that the FSA seems to allow them to get away with and meanwhile will be ripping me off by only paying the derisory 0.25% interest rate that my one year fixed rate ISA bond at 6.25% rolled off on to on April 8th.

So while having the bit between my teeth I sent their directors and senior managers the below email also covering (in passing) the issue of the training of their staff to break the law regarding the call cost description (as "local rate") of their new 0845 phone numbers for their branches that have replaced the former 01/02 numbers that they had so carefully hung on to before some incompetent IT director or manager was conned in to going down the 0845 road.

Here is my email:-


Quote:

-------- Original Message -------- Subject:      Abusive 30 Day ISA Transfer Delay to NatWest Amounts To Theft Date:      Sun, 19 Apr 2009 20:30:06 +0100 To:      graham.beale@nationwide.co.uk CC:      peter.stafford@nationwide.co.uk, david.rigney@nationwide.co.uk, marlene.mason@nationwide.co.uk, mike.jenkins@nationwide.co.uk, alison.robb@nationwide.co.uk, jeremy.wood@nationwide.co.uk, mark.gibbard@nationwide.co.uk, richard.searle@nationwide.co.uk, geoffery.howe@nationwide.co.uk, robert.walther@nationwide.co.uk, mark.rennison@nationwide.co.uk, matthew.wyles@nationwide.co.uk, tony.prestedge@nationwide.co.uk, robin.bailey@nationwide.co.uk, liam.coleman@nationwide.co.uk, terry.kaye@nationwide.co.uk, steve.nowell@nationwide.co.uk, maxine.taylor@nationwide.co.uk, stuart.bernau@nationwide.co.uk, bill.tudorjohn@nationwide.co.uk, mark.nicholls@nationwide.co.uk, suzanna.taverne@nationwide.co.uk, derek.ross@nationwide.co.uk, stella.david@nationwide.co.uk, sue.ellen@nationwide.co.uk, michael.jary@nationwide.co.uk, kevin.loosemoore@nationwide.co.uk References:      <49EB36F9.3020306@grenehurst.plus.com> Dear Mr Beale, Abusive and Unreasonable 30 Day ISA Transfer Delay to NatWest & Abusive 0.25% ISA Run On Interest Rate Amounts To Theft Further to my earlier email to your IT director about the utter shambles with the collapse of your website for several hours earlier today (Sunday 19th April 2009) I am now also writing to also complain about the abusive processes, akin to theft, instituted by Nationwide for any customer, like myself, who has come to the end of a Fixed Rate ISA Bond (in my case a one year bond at 6.25% interest) and who is now forced to move it to another financial institution because you do not currently choose to offer an acceptable market rate of ISA interest (eg 3%) to any customer not willing to enter in to another one year fixed rate bond with your Society. In my view this is quite ridiculous since anyone with a Cash ISA will not de-invest the money unless they have a very good reason indeed for doing so as they will lose that year's tax free Cash ISA wrapper for good.  There is therefore no need and no justification at all to force people to take another Fixed rate ISA bond for a fixed term in order for them to get a normal market rate of interest (instead of the abusive 0.5% that you are paying to normal non fixed term ISAs or the even more abusive 0.25% rate paid to fixed rate ISA bond customers who have rolled off the end of the fixed term bond) from the Society. In my own case I have decided to move all of my nearly £11,000 of cash ISAs from previous years to NatWest, both so I can get a market leading rate of ISA interest (3.5%) and so that I am not locked in to a one year term with significant penalties for early withdrawal (as would be imposed by Nationwide to get just 3% interest) but for reasons that are clearly totally unjustified in an electronic banking age you are currently trying to hang on to my money and pay an abusive 0.25% rate of interest for the maximum 30 days that you think you can get away with from receiving my instruction.  Yet I could not give the instruction until the day the one year ISA bond ended on 8th April or I would have suffered a 3 month interest penalty for early withdrawal.  So there was no way for me to avoid being rolled off on to a derisory 0.25% interest rate for a month. To my mind this is quite obscene behaviour on Nationwide's part as you are trying to pay a derisory 0.25% interest rate to customers for a month, even though my ISA form actually reached you from NatWest within 8 days of them receiving it from me. Since any manual administration was therefore completed by your receipt of the paperwork on Thursday 16th April, when it was also logged on your system, then as far as I am concerned the money should have transferred to NatWest forthwith that day electronically with no further delay.  I take the dimmest possible view indeed on this behaviour by Nationwide which I feel is totally outrageous and completely inappropriate for a member owned Building Society.  I should also add that I should not have to be moving the money away from the Society at all were you still paying a normal market rate of interest on ISAs of 3% and not instead insisting on a 1 year fixed term to get even this rate of interest.

Continued/................

Quote:

I feel the policies that are now being pursued by you and your fellow directors with regards to matter such as ISA transfers and the current unreasonably low level of interest on instant access (with no strings) savings accounts are extremely damaging to the previously excellent reputation of the Society that it had taken so many years to establish.  Reneging on the previous deal on exchange rate fee free credit and debit cards (so actively marketed by the Society on national television until very recently) and replacing the prized 01/02 local geographic numbers your branches had retained for so long with the hated hidden revenue share 0845 phone numbers (which you also train your staff to break the law on by telling them to describe them as "local rate") are further examples of the increasingly abusive anti customer behaviour by you and your fellow directors and senior executives towards your Members.  The same is true of your Society delaying until the very last possible moment the implementation of the new Fastpay BACS payment system for outgoing payments from member accounts.  NatWest implemented the same system in full nearly 12 months ago. You must presumably think your members were born yesterday if you expect them to believe that there is some real manual paperwork trail that actually needs to take 30days to move ISA money to other institutions, rather than simply an old fashioned anti competitive attempt to prevent your members taking their business elsewhere to an institution offering them a better deal.  Given the recent extraordinary behaviour of your directors in adversely altering so many of the terms and conditions of so many of your services (including phone numbers and foreign exchange rate levies) against the interests of your Members I can only assume that some of them must be commercial bankers (perhaps even former colleagues of say Sir Fred Goodwin) rather than longstanding building society men or women? I look forward to your investigation in to why Nationwide is obstructing the swift transfer of my One year Fixed Rate ISA bond with Nationwide to my NatWest E-ISA and also paying a derisory 0.25% interest rate while it does so and to therefore hearing from you further in this regard in due course. Yours sincerely,

I transferred a considerable sum to  a Nat West Isa from another provider last October. At the beginning of this tax year I went and put in this year's allowance. Three days later I looked on line to see that it had been blocked. Apparantly on enquiring why this happened, all Isas at Nat West get blocked so you can't put any more in the tax year. I had to fill in a lengthly form to unblock it. Money eventually was transferred but have missed over a week's interest. A good little old scam being run by Nat West :'( When I saw the guy originally he never mentioned any of this and I really can't be bothered to chase the £4 odd interest that I lost, but if they do this to everyone it is a nice little earner going on for them :'(

sherbert wrote on Apr 19^th, 2009 at 8:15pm:

I transferred a considerable sum to  a Nat West Isa from another provider last October. At the beginning of this tax year I went and put in this year's allowance. Three days later I looked on line to see that it had been blocked. Apparantly on enquiring why this happened, all Isas at Nat West get blocked so you can't put any more in the tax year. I had to fill in a lengthly form to unblock it. Money eventually was transferred but have missed over a week's interest. A good little old scam being run by Nat West :'( When I saw the guy originally he never mentioned any of this and I really can't be bothered to chase the £4 odd interest that I lost, but if they do this to everyone it is a nice little earner going on for them :'(

But Nationwide's rolling me off from 6.25% fixed rate interest to 0.25% run on interest at the end of the one year fixed term and then taking 30 days to do the ISA transfer to NatWest to get me back to 3.5% is on a bigger scale. My calculation is that I will lose £29 in interest as a result.

NGMsGhost wrote on Apr 19^th, 2009 at 9:01pm:

But Nationwide rolling me off from 6.25% fixed rate interest to 0.25% run on interest at the end of the one year fixed term and then taking 30 days to do the ISA transfer to NatWest to get me back to 3.5% is on a bigger scale. My calculation is that I will lose £29 in interest as a result.

Agree yours is worth following up as it is for more money than my Nat West one.

Every year when I take out a cash Isa, it does not matter which provider it is, there is always a problem.

Well done NGM's Ghost!   I agree with every word you have said to Nationwide. Of course, their other gem was to discontinue paying interest on the Flexaccount (in which we had maintained a deposit at the hightest level to get the interest) and I'm sure they never notified us, we only discovered it by chance a month later, this had earned us £80.80 in the preceding year.   We did take another Nationwide ISA bond because we didn't want the e-ISA with Nat West and were told we couldn't transfer from another ISA into the branch based ISA paying 3.51%.  And, of course, you can no longer pay your bills in Nationwide, only their credit card bill so my husband has to traipse round other banks as well.

Their other recent incompetence (which I forgot last Friday due to the credit card issue) related to my youngest son who still lives at home.   Nationwide recently reissued all debit cards some months early all with new debit card numbers; for fairly complex reasons (including an advance payment made on the existing card which he would then need to produce over Easter) my son asked when visiting our branch if he could continue to use his existing card & was told yes, until it expired which would be Sept 09.   Last Thursday evening, he tried to withdraw money on the existing card & it was blocked.  Having been begged (& being a bit soft), I drove five miles in torrential rain to deliver his new card to him in town which, of course, worked.  Another example of Nationwide staff not having a clue about the basics of their job.

Barbara, as I have mentioned before, why on earth are you and your family still with this outfit? When they took over the Portman B.S. the service deteriated so much that my wife and I took  all our savings and Isas out of Nationwide because we were so fed up with their incompetence and appaliing service. What are you waiting for? :-?

To save your self from any more stress, vote with your feet. ;)

sherbert wrote on Apr 20^th, 2009 at 2:31pm:

Barbara, as I have mentioned before, why on earth are you and your family still with this outfit? When they took over the Portman B.S. the service deteriated so much that my wife and I took  all our savings and Isas out of Nationwide because we were so fed up with their incompetence and appaliing service. What are you waiting for?

Sherbert.

I think the point that concerns both me and Barbara is that almost none of the alternatives here are very attractive either.  And what we find objectionable is that we have supported the Building Society movement (which we both passionately believe in) but its directors are now behaving as though they are running a commercial bank.  We are simply asking for them to fulfil their legal duty by running it again as a building society operated in the best interests of its Members.

I have moved my Nationwide ISAs to NatWest simply to get a decent rate of interest with no penalties for early withdrawal but I do not expect to be delighted with NatWest and I know they only have to pay a decent rate of interest be because of their currently shocking reputation and because the government is subsidising their activities to try to restart the UK economy.  Similarly I will be opening an account with Citibank reluctantly because I loathe dealing with Indian call centres but since they pay a better rate of interest on instant access savings (non ISA) than any building society and are fully FSA protected up to £50,000 it is the lesser of two evils.  As long as I can operate the account entirely online and not have to speak to the Indians (their Indian call centre is a particularly bad one with no effort at all made to weed out staff who do not speak intelligible English) it should be ok.

I would much rather give my custom to a UK building society but as long as they act abusively by still charging 10% to 17% or so on loans and credit cards but only pay interest at 1 to 2% to depositors I have no choice but to take my business elsewhere.

NGMsGhost wrote on Apr 20^th, 2009 at 2:44pm:

sherbert wrote on Apr 20th, 2009 at 2:31pm: Barbara, as I have mentioned before, why on earth are you and your family still with this outfit? When they took over the Portman B.S. the service deteriated so much that my wife and I took  all our savings and Isas out of Nationwide because we were so fed up with their incompetence and appaliing service. What are you waiting for? Sherbert. I think the point that concerns both me and Barbara is that almost none of the alternatives here are very attractive either.  And what we find objectionable is that we have supported the Building Society movement (which we both passionately believe in) but its directors are now behaving as though they are running a commercial bank.  We are simply asking for them to fulfil their legal duty by running it again as a building society operated in the best interests of its Members. I have moved my Nationwide ISAs to NatWest simply to get a decent rate of interest with no penalties for early withdrawal but I do not expect to be delighted with NatWest and I know they only have to pay a decent rate of interest be because of their currently shocking reputation and because the government is subsidising their activities to try to restart the UK economy.  Similarly I will be opening an account with Citibank reluctantly because I loathe dealing with Indian call centres but since they pay a better rate of interest on instant access savings (non ISA) than any building society and are fully FSA protected up to £50,000 it is the lesser of two evils.  As long as I can operate the account entirely online and not have to speak to the Indians (their Indian call centre is a particularly bad one with no effort at all made to weed out staff who do not speak intelligible English) it should be ok. I would much rather give my custom to a UK building society but as long as they act abusively by still charging 10% to 17% or so on loans and credit cards but only pay interest at 1 to 2% to depositors I have no choice but to take my business elsewhere.

Point taken.

Remember if you add to your Nat West Isa next year, refer to my post #95

sherbert wrote on Apr 20^th, 2009 at 3:06pm:

Remember if you add to your Nat West Isa next year, refer to my post #95

The matter of NatWest not transferring my opening £3,600 in to my E-ISA account as an existing customer they already knew on the day I opened it online (when the online form suggested I was completing the transfer there and then) and their stupid insistence on sending me a paper based form requiring a signature to transfer the money across (when I could in fact transfer the money manually online after two days once the account was opened with a zero balance) for a a so called E-ISA has already been referred to the Chairman's office of the Royal Bank of Scotland group.

Similarly my ISA transfer from Nationwide to the NatWest E-ISA and its quite unjustified slow pace while I am paid a derisory 0.25% interest by Nationwide has been referred to their Chief Executive's office.

If both organisations still foul up despite this then the Financial Services Ombudsman will be my next stop.

They're all as bad as each other.

I opened a new fixed rate ISA this tax year with Lloyds TSB.  Told them I wanted to transfer in 2 previous years' ISAs and they said they'd deal with everything.

The first of those old ISAs, YBS, very efficiently added closing interest (within a day) and then sent a cheque in the post to Lloyds!

They've obviously never heard of electronic banking!

Heinz wrote on Apr 20^th, 2009 at 5:49pm:

They're all as bad as each other.

I think a few smaller building societies probably offer more personalised service but unfortunately they are probably also more likely to still go bust.

The decision by most institutions (Citibank/Egg excepted) to only offer a reasonable rate of interest on ISAs (with their automatic sticky money tendencies even if they aren't also combined with a term bond too) does seem to suggest that many of them still have huge liquidity problems where they are fearful of any adverse news starting a run on the bank or building society concerned.

NGM's Ghost, I think the reason you received the paper form from NatWest is to do with this wretched govt's stupid money laundering regulations, my husband had the same thing with Premium Bonds, they advertise you can buy them over the phone but then won't/can't action them until they have received back the signed & dated form!   I often wonder how long before we have to give DNA to put our own money in an account, the temptation when asked "where did you get this money?" to reply "robbing a bank" is almost overwhelming but I suspect even this post could be investigated now by govt busybodies!

Interestingly, when you open an account with Yorkshire Building Society, you can open this on line without a single scrap of paper. I have opened two accounts with them myself and my wife has opened one and it is all instantaneous. Very impressive. (I was extrememly lucky to have opened a 13 month fixed bond last December at 6.3%, just before the rates collapsed.) the instant account is very easy to run and to make a deposit you just use your 'switch' card [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Barbara wrote on Apr 21^st, 2009 at 8:08am:

NGM's Ghost, I think the reason you received the paper form from NatWest is to do with this wretched govt's stupid money laundering regulations, my husband had the same thing with Premium Bonds, they advertise you can buy them over the phone but then won't/can't action them until they have received back the signed & dated form!   I often wonder how long before we have to give DNA to put our own money in an account, the temptation when asked "where did you get this money?" to reply "robbing a bank" is almost overwhelming but I suspect even this post could be investigated now by govt busybodies!

Barbara,

No in this case it is pure bureaucratic incompetence by NatWest as I am an existing customer who they already know and have all the money laundering ID for and I opened the account while having gone through the log in procedure to NatWest online banking.

The form I was sent by NatWest in the post was not one requesting confirmation of my identity but one asking for a signature to initiate a transfer from my current account to this so called "E-ISA" account (an instruction I had already given online when opening the account).  I ignored the form and on the advice of their online banking helpdesk staff transferred the money manually using online banking two days after I had gone through the account opening sequence online as by then the account was accepting manual online transfers of money in from my current account through the online banking screens.  But if I had gone off abroad for 3 weeks thinking I had already opened the account and put £3,600 in it when I opened it I would have lost 3 weeks interest........

Hence clearly there was no need for the postal correspondence and forms.  All it means is more cost for them in postage out and return postage back (reply paid envelope) and the much more expensive cost of staff time to process each manually sent back transfer request form.  This is money they are wasting that they could be using to pay their account holders a higher rate of interest. :o >:(

Looks like Nationwide are losing a lot of customers.

NGM, who, if you don't mind me asking, do you bank with for normal banking (ie current account)?

bbb_uk wrote on Apr 21^st, 2009 at 5:22pm:

Looks like Nationwide are losing a lot of customers.

They'll be losing another one in August when the 3 year variable rate bond I have with them (and which is now down to 1.6% gross) matures.

Whilst we are having a moan at the banks, is there any reason in this day and age, other than to rip us off, that it takes five days to electronically transfer a few bob from one account to the other? :-?

sherbert wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2009 at 8:31am:

Whilst we are having a moan at the banks, is there any reason in this day and age, other than to rip us off, that it takes five days to electronically transfer a few bob from one account to the other? :-?

It only takes 5 days if you do it after say 5pm on a Friday where you miss that day's clearing point and there is also a weekend involved.  So it could take up to 7 days If you start the process at 6pm on the Thursday before Easter.

But I believe that is why Fastpay in real time transfers are being introduced is it not?

NatWest have already implemented this fully for ordinary electronic transfers in and outbound but surprise, surprise Nationwide only honours Fastpay inbound and still insists on the full 3 working days for outbound payments.  Nationwide think they might finally introduce Fastpay for outbound payments in June (there again the date might slip again ;) ).  Of course Fastpay only works between the major banks and building societies that are signed up to the scheme, some of whom (Nationwide) are dragging their heels as long as they can about fully implementing it.

See www.apacs.org.uk for more information.

Yup, I have heard of this, however have yet to experience it. Just transferred some dosh from Yorkshire Building Society to my bank and it says it will take five days. I have two Mastercards and when I pay them from my bank on line it takes four or five days to reach the destination account.....ridiculous. One of the Mastercards is a Marks & Spencer one and if I  pay the bill by cash in one of their stores, it is credited the next day.

sherbert wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2009 at 9:13am:

Yup, I have heard of this, however have yet to experience it. Just transferred some dosh from Yorkshire Building Society to my bank and it says it will take five days. I have two Mastercards and when I pay them from my bank on line it takes four or five days to reach the destination account.....ridiculous. One of the Mastercards is a Marks & Spencer one and if I  pay the bill by cash in one of their stores, it is credited the next day.

Then Yorkshire BS have not implemented Fastpay for outgoing payments.  If I transfer Money to my Egg Mastercard from  Natwest it arrives the same working day.  Same if I top up my Co-Op Cashminder account to buy Ryanair flights using my NatWest online banking.  Arrives within minutes.

Obviously Lloyds TSB or whatever they call themselves now have not implemented it either as that is the bank that where I pay my credit cards :(

sherbert wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2009 at 9:50am:

Obviously Lloyds TSB or whatever they call themselves now have not implemented it either as that is the bank that where I pay my credit cards :(

If Yorkshire have not implemented Fastpay (or are not part of it at all) then it won't help if Lloyds TSB have.

sherbert wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2009 at 9:50am:

Obviously Lloyds TSB or whatever they call themselves now have not implemented it either as that is the bank that where I pay my credit cards :(

I transferred some money from my A & L current account into my Lloyds TSB account and it was there as soon as I had logged in to check! :)

So, I assume from these replies, that both institutions that one deals with, must be signed up to Fastpay to make it work? :-/

sherbert wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2009 at 4:08pm:

So, I assume from these replies, that both institutions that one deals with, must be signed up to Fastpay to make it work? :-/

Or put another way if one isn't playing ball (eg Yorkshire BS who seem to be resisting Fastpay like Nationwide) then it doesn't help that the party you want to pay does play ball regarding Fastpay (i.e. Lloyds).

bbb_uk wrote on Apr 14^th, 2009 at 4:54pm:

...Halifax/BoS use geographicals for local branches....

Am I going mad?  I could have sworn that Halifax used geographical numbers when I checked their website before posting the above but upon checking their website again now, they use 0845 numbers.

Have they just moved over to 0845 now as well or am I going mad? lol

Maybe they have switched numbers since being taken over by Lloyds?

Heinz wrote on Apr 20^th, 2009 at 5:49pm:

They're all as bad as each other. I opened a new fixed rate ISA this tax year with Lloyds TSB.  Told them I wanted to transfer in 2 previous years' ISAs and they said they'd deal with everything. The first of those old ISAs, YBS, very efficiently added closing interest (within a day) and then sent a cheque in the post to Lloyds! They've obviously never heard of electronic banking!

Same thing has just happened to me. Just heard from Bradford & Bingley that they have sent a cheque to Nat West to transfer my Isa

Just to let you all know, that Nationwide - who were so friendly when I could phone my local branch with the geog number, now has a message on the phone, saying they have changed to 0845 2660328
I have done a search here, but no result.

Hi Guys

I have been a Nationwide cutomer for 19 years now I joineed them when they were the Anglia. I have had a good service from them but they are over looking the telephone numbers as they are slowly changing to 0845 numbers or so it seems.

It does not bother me personally because I contact them on 0800 30 20 10 and say "Switchboard" and get put through to the relevant department, but what about all those customers that do not do this and use the 0845 numbers

Can we lobby the chairman or the present telecommunications director, and strongly suggest they use 03 numbers and not 0845 numbers.

If I can find the relevant contact I will post it here

Please see earlier in this thread.  A number of us have fought a long and so far fruitless battle with this lot, they have ceased caring about the customer, like all the other banks.   The Chief Executive is Graham Beale, his email address follows the usual Nationwide format of forename.surname etc.  Please have a go at him & see if you can get somewhere, the rest of us had no luck at all.   Sorry to sound negative but it comes of long frustration!!

I see their 'international number' as they call it is, +44 1793 656789 which I assume translates into 01793 656789 would that work?

There is a BT case study on this:
http://globalservices.bt.com/LeafAction.do/About-us/Case-studies/nationwide-building-society/param/Record/nationwide_building_society_casestudy_all_en-gb/chapterKey/3

Is there a translation from B S to English of this anywhere?  ;D

Dave wrote on Sep 1^st, 2010 at 11:05am:

There is a BT case study on this: http://globalservices.bt.com/LeafAction.do/About-us/Case-studies/nationwide-building-society/param/Record/nationwide_building_society_casestudy_all_en-gb/chapterKey/3

However It doesn't seem to explain why they used 0845 instead of 0345 or why the rotten so and sos are shortly also bringing in the usual large bank cartel style swingeing charges for making cash withdrawals at overseas cash machines on their Visa Debit card.

The current directors of Nationwide must be fattening up Nationwide for a flotation as a bank at some point as there is no other possible explanation for their numerous anti customer moves over the last couple of years including also bringing in standard ripoff overdraft interest charges. >:( >:( >:(

NGMsGhost wrote on Sep 1^st, 2010 at 12:48pm:

The current directors of Nationwide must be fattening up Nationwide for a flotation as a bank at some point....

You might be right. I've still got a pre "poison pill" account which I keep open just in case. It's always nice to know that a mutual organisation always has its members best interests at stake :o

I believe that I have found the alternatives for the published 0845 266 xxxx branch numbers, although I note that they do not appear to go through to branches directly. We have, nonetheless, direct alternatives to ringing the published rip-off numbers.

Alternatives 0845 266 0xxx can be dialled using 01793 810xxx and 0845 266 1xxx can be dialled using 01793 811xxx.

Of the 01793 81 numbers I tried, they answered with the same recorded menu as the 0845 number I tried. When closed last night, the message on both was identical.

Dave wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 9:55am:

Alternatives 0845 266 0xxx can be dialled using 01793 810xxx and 0845 266 1xxx can be dialled using 01793 811xxx. Of the 01793 81 numbers I tried, they answered with the same recorded menu as the 0845 number I tried. When closed last night, the message on both was identical.

Great work Dave.  How exactly did you manage to track this down.  Perhaps an inside tip from a member of Nationwide staff who supports this campaign. ;)

If so then I'm sure that you won't be prepared to reveal your exact source.  Alternatively perhaps it was simply a case of your usual legendary super sleuth and lateral thinking abilities

Of course I suppose that we should have known that not only do the ripoff 0845 numbers cost extra but that they also try to direct you to speak to a call centre employee if they possibly can. :o >:(

NGMsGhost wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 10:20am:

Great work Dave.  How exactly did you manage to track this down.  Perhaps an inside tip from a member of Nationwide staff who supports this campaign. ;)

It was by chance. I was checking off Cineworld entries and found someone had submitted a number for Swindon cinema and a note saying that the number listed was incorrect. Tried the incorrect number and it went through to the Nationwide recording. After trying a few, I found them all to be the same and the penny dropped.



NGMsGhost wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 10:20am:

Of course I suppose that we should have known that not only do the ripoff 0845 numbers cost extra but that they also try to direct you to speak to a call centre employee if they possibly can. :o >:(

That is of course a separate issue.

For a few branches we have local geographic numbers now submitted. On this basis, I suspect that there are direct numbers to branches and these have the local STD code, so there's no practical way to work out what these are. Only if they are given out can they become known.


On a similar note, HSBC's internal branch numbers are published as 0845 58x xxxx, where the last six digits are the extension number. This is presumably some IP based system, but they all have underlying numbers where the 08455 can be removed and replaced with 01226.

Dave wrote on Sep 10^th, 2010 at 10:38am:

It was by chance. I was checking off Cineworld entries and found someone had submitted a number for Swindon cinema and a note saying that the number listed was incorrect. Tried the incorrect number and it went through to the Nationwide recording. After trying a few, I found them all to be the same and the penny dropped.

A fortunate coincidence indeed.  As the old saying goes its an ill wind that blows no good...................

This thread has been live for some time now and I think a large number of members have contacted a number of Nationwide employees over the years including the chief exec.

I have been sat here pondering on how a campaign could be started in support of 03 numbers and I thought of the Nationwide.

My suggestion is simple but may be effective, Nationwide can be contacted on the "FREE PHONE NUMBER" 0800 302010 this is the number for the switchboard I have been using it for years.

If all members start contacting the Nationwide via this number the volume of  calls will increase dramatically and what I suggest is that we all ask to be connected to the chief executives P.A. and request the abolition of 0845 numbers in favour of 01/02 or 03 numbers.

If we make enough calls on a daily basis and on the same number they will get the message because all the calls will be put through to the same person.

I suggest the call goes somthing like this

Calling the following number 0800 302010 will connect to the switchboard pressing the star key 4 or 5 times or saying "SWITCHBOARD" bypasses the menu and connects to the switchboard operator

Can you please connect me to XXXXXX the chief executives P.A. I will attempt to find out the most senior member of the society who's P.A. will take calls alternatively if any member has a name that would be great.

Just a though when dialling if the 141 prefix is used they will not be able to establish where the calls are coming from.

It''s a long shot I know and probably a little crude but as always can I have your thoughts please.

bazzerfewi wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 4:22am:

... a little crude but as always can I have your thoughts please.

My thought is that they will respond pretty quickly by disabling the 0800 number  >:(

That puts things back a few steps  :o

I think Nationwide have realised that customers are not happy with 0845 numbers and that they have customers abroad, I have always used the 080030210 number if I couldn't find an alterntive.

I have found that this appears to be the best method -

Contact the main switch 0800 302010

Ask for the relevant department

Before you terminate the call ask for the direct dial 01 number because you cannot contact them via 0845 numbers or tell them that you need to access the service when you are abroad

Both methods have worked for me :) ;D

Being a Nationwide customer for over a year, I have never needed or wanted to call the 0800 number.

I have alway's used the 01793 number listed on their website and on the rear of my debit card.

As noted to bazzerfewi in a PM I also was surprised to see that Nationwide suggest calling the 01793 number for their automated telephone banking IF your call provider does not include 0845 calls in your calling package (this is pointed out in the leaflet describing how to use their telephone banking service)

No other bank I have ever used was that upfront about an alternative number and why it could be used.

I also not that unlike Alliance and Leicester (now Santander) who have an 0844 number Nationwide still use an 0845 number and display alternatives for MOST if not ALL departments.

You probably already know this but........Instead of the 0845 number on the rear of their bank/credit cards given for assistance use the standard rate number given instead for international enquiries.
Quicker to get through too as well. :)

Mark,

Firstly welcome to SayNotTo0870.com  :)

Indeed both Credit and Debit card Customer Services are listed on the back of the cards, and their site here: http://www.nationwide.co.uk/contact_us/telephone_numbers/telephone_numbers.htm

I have been very impressed with Nationwide on that basis alone, also you can type Nationwide in the Search on here  :)

CJT-80 wrote on Apr 28^th, 2011 at 5:59pm:

I have been very impressed with Nationwide on that basis alone, also you can type Nationwide in the Search on here  :)

Nationwide Building Society has been discussed extensively in this forum, mainly for its decision to charge a premium by using Business Rate numbers for all its branches. I have joined this

Dave I have never had to call the branch direct, and having previously been with Abbey (now Santander), I was very glad to move to Nationwide.

I do appreciate they like other banks have their downfalls, but Santander make you call their overseas customer service, which is worse than useless!

I am an avid user of SayNoTo0870 as you are well aware, and am very pleased to see someone has worked out the 01793 alternative to the 0845 branch numbers.

When I left Santander I had to call an 055 number, of which I had NO idea of the calling cost.

I have never paid to contact any service at Nationwide, the number to ring is 0800 302010 this is the main switchboard number.

Once you have been connected to the relevent department if you request the 01/02 number they will give out that number for further use.

CJT-80, if you check back on previous threads relating to Nationwide, you will see why many of us are so dissatisfied as their service has declined consistently since just before they switched to the 0845 numbers for branches, these two factors are why we moved most of our business away from them, I will say again that I have noticed with many organisations which move to 0845 their customer service declines as they move the number which to my mind is clear evidence that a move to 0845 indicates a m particular management mindset which puts the customer last.   I do accept Santander is absolutely diabolical from reports I've heard, when we changed banks we felt that, if they all have covert premium rate numbers, we might as well at least have better customer service.

Members following this thread might be interested in the following articles:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/sep/14/nationwide-chief-executive-email-address
http://blogs.thisismoney.co.uk/2010/10/why-did-graham-beale-close-his-nationwide-email-account.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/sep/15/nationwide-chief-executive-back-online

These links can be found at the bottom of CEO E-mail.

Good evening,

Maybe I stand alone in not having any issues so far with Nationwide. If that maybe the case then I am happy to say so. My only gripe along with millions of other customers was the change regarding the EU/Overseas card charges. However I have never needed to use my credit/debit card outside of the UK and frankly wouldn't. But that's a personal matter.

I have never yet had to raise a complaint against Nationwide, and I hope I never have to.

Much unlike the service from Tesco, National Rail and our lovely Traveline!