Anyone know if recipients of calls can tell if their 0870 No. or the geographic equivalent was used ?

I have tried to phone SKY 7 times using one of the geographic numbers, each time waited 16 mins in a queue and was then cut off - a total of over 100 mins.
My last time was at 23:45 ( nearly midnight )  and still the same result.
Using an 0870 number this would have cost me a fortune rather than the few pence it did using Call18866.
However, I wonder whether my calls never reach the end of the queue  as they can detect that I am not using their 0870 number.

Any thoughts ?

Phil

CLI (calling line identification) is the number that comes up on your mobile, or caller ID display for a landline, if you have it. It is also what you get when you dial 1471.

So when someone calls you on your 0870 the CLI may show your own 0870 number. See here. Note that this is an optional service.

Hi Dave

Thanks for reply. I was somewhat familliar with the CLI system  but I am not entirely clear about your comment w.r.t. my query.

Are you saying that when I phone SKY they can automatically detect that I am using the Geographic Equivalent ( posted on this site ) rather than their preferred 0870 number and can thus  keep me at the bottom of their queuing system so that my calls are never answered ?

I always get through and get the familiar "sorry to keep you waiting" etc crap but never apparently get to the end of the queue.

Sorry to be so thick.

Phil

When the 0870 holder (the callee? ugh) receives your call they do not know whether you dialled 0870 XXX XXXX or the 01 or 02X delivery number; that is the physical line to which the 0870 etc is translated and delivered after all the operators have taken their cut.

Save perhaps by the lack of abuse because we use 18866 etc...

The only possible way of finding out is if they read this website and change to a different delivery number whilst leaving the published one running but unanswered, or answered tardily.

I hope that this helps.

Thanks Tanllan

So this means that the poor guys who phone SKY using 0870 numbers get the same lack of response  that I have been getting. Wow !

I wonder if SKY's rake off from the 0870 numbers exceeds the custom they must lose from not being able to conact them.
However, possibly  when you have a monopoly, people are prepared to spend a fortune on telephone calls and wait for hours just to contact you.

Phil

It is quite possible that customers calling their 0870 numbers get the same treatment.  Remember that they get more money from 0870 if they keep people on hold longer (especially during office hours!!)

There are stories about companies doing this, and since probably only 2-3% of customers would research for a geographical number, then chances are that 0870 would have got the same result, and cost alot more!!

I even get kept on hold on other companies freephone numbers for over 10 minutes when they're busy, meaning they're paying for the privilege of playing me music prior to customer service.

wrote on Nov 17^th, 2004 at 9:32am:

Hi Dave Thanks for reply. I was somewhat familliar with the CLI system  but I am not entirely clear about your comment w.r.t. my query.

There are a number of possibilities:

• The geographical number you have is not the one the 0870 translates to.
  
• The geographical number is the one the 0870 translates to and the queing you are experiencing is normal. Only a call to the 0870 will tell you how long you have to wait on it.
  
• The CLI that Sky receive may be set to their 0870 when a call is made to the 0870. So you ring 0870..., the call comes in and it looks, to Sky, as though it is coming from 0870... If you call the geographical number directly the CLI number is obviously your own number. I cannot say whether Sky have this feature, only Sky can answer that one.

If you are on an 'unlimited' call package or call in the evening/weekend on (for example) BT Together Option 1, it's 5.5p for upto an hour, so you're not paying to wait for half an hour or more.

Thanks Dave

I actually use 18866 - only 1p per call to UK geographic numbers. Superb !

I am using the gegraphic translations for the various SKY Depts. shown on this site. From the automatic reply it seems that I am at the correct  Dept.
I don't fancy clocking up a large bill to test if dialing their 0870 number gets me through in less than 1 1/2 hours.

Perhaps the very long queues are normal - I might try next in the middle of the night - they do say a 24 hour service

Re. your last comment re BT's 5.5 per hour - I did not think this applied to 0870 numbers - only to geographic numbers.

Phil

No landline provider include 0870 numbers as part of an all you can phone package, however there are various schemes to get free calls to 01, and 02 numbers.

My mobile is t-mobile, and my inclusive minutes are only for landlines and t-mobiles off peak, and they do state in the small print, it excludes non geographic numbers, which even means it excludes freephone!!

If 0870 costed the same as normal calls, then sites like this wouldn't exist.

wrote on Nov 17^th, 2004 at 3:52pm:

Re. your last comment re BT's 5.5 per hour - I did not think this applied to 0870 numbers - only to geographic numbers.

It doesn't include 0870s, but if you call the geographical number and have to hang on for upto an hour you are not paying any more for your call than if it lasted 2 minutes. OK, so you have to listen to their hold music and messages telling you that your call is important to them etc., but you've not paid them for the privilage!

If you have BT Together Option 1, the 5.5p for upto an hour only applies in the evening and weekend. Evening is 18:00-08:00 Mon-Fri.

The problem is occurring because you're using 18866.

http://forum.moneysavingexpert.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Telephone;action=display;num=1097931824;start=4#4


Quote:

DON’T USE 18866 TO CALL SKY.  Those using call18866 (see cheapest home phone calls) shouldn’t use it to call Sky’s customer service centre.  The way it works means Sky can see it as an overseas number, and I’ve heard reports of them cutting people off assuming they’re wrongly using it frm abroad. (discuss sky/call18866 problem)

Thanks wlf

Looks like problem is identified and solved - well at least why I am cut off after 16 mins

I will  try using th BT 5.5p per hour option tonight - hopefully should get to the end of the queue within an hour.

If the queues however, are normally more than 16 mins long and most people are using 0870, they must be making a mint with ther 2p/min rake-off

I'll bet that does not show up explicitly in their accounts.

Cheers

Phil

In fairness to some of these companies, they make most revenue from 0870 during office hours.  Some companies that I've visited don't offer payouts evenings and weekends, as the cost of calling 0870 is less.

However some companies with high call volumes such as Sky, might be getting about 1p minute evenings, and possibly about 0.5p weekends.

You still around wlf ?

My joy  ( see my last post ) with apparent solution to 16 min cut off with calls to  SKY short lived.

I tried using the geographic numbers direct through BT (  i.e. without the 18866 predial  ) and the same thing happened - cut off after 16 mins.
So, cause of 16 min cut off is not simply due to the use of 18866.

Phil

A couple of firms I have rung using geographic numbers  have tried to get me to redial using their NGN No - so these particular firms are aware of the number you dialled.

If you look on the campaign site http://www.freeweb.telco4u.net/rachelf  you will see why this might be. This is the latest trick being used with NGN Premium numbers other than 09; they are now having have automatic drop-out after a preset duration programmed as a standard feature! This is to increase their revenue generated.

Sometimes it might be that you don't have quite the same number as the one the 0870 number points to. Then they would certainly be suspicious!

Most companies operating a call centre will use call monitoring software.  The software normally logs the number of phone from where the call came.  It will not matter if you call them using a NGN or from a normal number.  If you block your number when you dial, then they will not have your number.  If you use a third party service, such as a calling card, it might possibly be different.

A little tip for when you complain.  As the call software records your number, you can always point this out to the company when they try to bluff you and claim that they have no record of your call.  Just tell them to run a search based on the number you have been calling from.  They will then be able to retrieve the call from their call system.  If this is as clear as mud, contact me and I will try to explain more clearly.

Regards

Copperbean

:)

Hi Chaps,

also tried calling Sky using the 01506 geographic number and  I got all the thank you for waiting bumpf and was then cut offf quite a bit later. This happened twice yet when I dialled the 0870 I got thought to CS person in under a minute. Definitely something didgy going on here. I am with talktalk so dialled without any prefixes.

As I said, you can't be sure the number is exactly equivalent to the 0870 number. If you can't get through on the alternative, it could be outdated. Maybe they have several geographical lines, and the 0870 connects you to whichever one is least busy.

A friend of mine was told on the phone that she had won a hol for 2 & should ring an 0871 no. GLOBAL VACATIONS. The no. is listed with an 01268 geo no.
She tried this but was told to call the 0871 which I fear she did.
Does the person who supplied this alternative know what the underlying charge rate might be? 18866 could not connect. If as i suspect this is some scam can an early warning be in place where alternative is given?
Howcome there are only 1000 of us? Just shows what a docile lot we brits really are.
Tony. :-/ :-[

I forgot to say that the 01268 did not "they said" deal with enquiries of this type, so the underlying no. is not the 0871 contact?
Tony (again)