To prevent the number underlying the 0870 from being displayed, most companies withhold their number. I am no longer plagued with sales calls as I pay £10 a quarter to BT for their Anonymous Caller Rejection (ACR) service. Friends who withhold their number can get through this blocking by dialling a four digit number so their number (which I know anyway) is revealed. Unfortunately, it would appear, for a £60 set up fee and £7 a quarter maintenance, BT now offer the facility for companies to present an 0870 number rather than the "true" number, so it looks as if I could now be pestered again. I wonder if BT will extend their ACR to include blocking 0870!?

Unikely, because ACR is exactly that - Anonymous Call Rejection.

At least by using caller display you can refuse to answer the call...

Allied to this are those companies selecting an exchange does not offer the 141 with-holding and so their carrier allows "Unavailable", which bypasses the ACR. Grrrr.

Another for 0fcom, particularly with the high ACR charge.

There is now no reason to with-hold one's number. OK fewer reasons, except when calling 0870 numbers?

I started using ACR a few months ago, when I had ISDN, because I was getting plagued by sales calls with no return number.
It was much better until I got ADSL installed (mid August), but I never realised I had the same problem again until the beginning of December. When they changed me from ISDN over to ADSL they switched OFF the ACR  :-/
They put it back on again last week and that is now OK.

Then I noticed my 1571 wasn't working (via OneTel). If you have ACR or other blocking it doesn't ! Nice to know, so I switched back to BT 1571 - No big deal.  :-X

When I got BT to switch my ACR back on, I mentioned the TPS, which I signed up for ages ago, and the guy at BT said about another service which blocks the calls sent from outside UK as well, which seem to get through ACR.

Does anyone know what this service is and where to get it ??

I'm thinking of setting up an old PC as a telephone exchange to monitor the incoming calls and if any with witheld, unavailable or 08xx come in, they get a message saying "GO AWAY" (or similar!).   ;D

Any thoughts on how to go about it, or anything else we can do ??

hmmm, it might be BT's Choose to Refuse, but I do not know whether this allows you to block numbers when you do not see the originating number - as is often the case with incoming international calls.

The BT website is not terribly informative about this aspect, but a little delving gives 0800 169 2707 for further information.

No time to try them now. :'(

wrote on Dec 16^th, 2004 at 12:12am:

I'm thinking of setting up an old PC as a telephone exchange to monitor the incoming calls and if any with witheld, unavailable or 08xx come in, they get a message saying "GO AWAY" (or similar!).   ;D Any thoughts on how to go about it, or anything else we can do ??

This is an excellent idea. Then you only need pay BT for caller ID and nothing else!

I'd use a Linux-based system as then you can make it do whatever you want, but it could be a steep learning curve if you don't already have some familiarity with it...

A quick Google found this:

http://frank.harvard.edu/~coldwell/answering_machine/

(I'm assuming caller ID works much the same way in the US...)

I quite like the idea of trying this project myself, but I really don't have time for it at the moment.

As for your recorded message for people who phone up with a withheld/0870 number, how about, "This number is not in use, please call 0871 xxx xxxx" where the number is one you have set up especially for this purpose!

wrote on Dec 16^th, 2004 at 11:59am:

how about, "This number is not in use, please call 0871 xxx xxxx" where the number is one you have set up especially for this purpose!

I rather like "You are not authorised to access this number, please redial using 0871 ... " but I fear that that might be said to be a little wicked :D

Of course, once they do call back on 0871, it will play them a recorded message telling them their call is very important to us, and we'll answer as soon as possible.

No, stop it or I will not get any work done today.

But perhaps they should only get to that stage after several sets of choices   :)

wrote on Dec 15^th, 2004 at 3:47pm:

Unfortunately, it would appear, for a £60 set up fee and £7 a quarter maintenance, BT now offer the facility for companies to present an 0870 number rather than the "true" number, so it looks as if I could now be pestered again.

I believe there are strict rules with thus, notibly that the 0870 number presented, or other NGN,  must  route to the same hunt group or department that the call originated from.  Something along those lines anyway.

Regards

Faz

wrote on Dec 16^th, 2004 at 11:59am:

(I'm assuming caller ID works much the same way in the US...)

Unfortunatetly this is not the case.  The main difference which I'm aware of is that the US system transmits the number between the rings and the UK (and possibly European) standard sends this at the beginining, before your phones start ringning.  I'm sure there are other more significant factors too.

That's not to say a software PBX still isn't feasable with the right parts.  I've heard Asterisk being mentioned a lot in the FWD http://freeworlddialup.com/ Voice-over-IP communities as a good Linux based PBX.

Regards

Faz

Telewest still only charge £1/month for ACR.

...'only'?  NTL don't charge for ACR at ALL!

Bt's Chargeable "Choose to Refuse" Service does work with withheld numbers. The exchange knows the number even when it is withheld.

Only disadvantage is that you have to answer a call to these people before you can dial your pin number to block it  >:(  

Also I cannot remember if there is a limit to the amount of numbers you can block, I believe there is.

wrote on Mar 17^th, 2005 at 5:02am:

Bt's Chargeable "Choose to Refuse" Service does work with withheld numbers. The exchange knows the number even when it is withheld.

Surely if it is the Las Vegas Jackpot Casino calling they might still find a way to offer no number at all due to being based in the USA?  Also they might just change their CLI from day to day?

Unfortunately, using 18866 sometimes converts your CLID to "witheld". Happened to me last week when I phone home. Wife almost told me to p*ss off!

So if you use some automated blocker, a legitimate call would not get through.

wrote on Mar 20^th, 2005 at 10:50pm:

So if you use some automated blocker, a legitimate call would not get through.

I can't believe that anyone uses an automated call blocker unless they are the victim of a stalker or some other truly malcious caller.

Registration with the TPS (www.tpsonline.org.uk) should be enough to get rid of all the others without even needing to be ex-directory.

The Casino calls are vagely a nuisance but not a real problem and new money transfer rules from ICSTIS will be stopping the problem soon.

TPS doesn't always work NGM. I am have been registered for some long while, but I still get the cold calls. One trick they use is to pretend to be a market research company; then they effectively try to sell to you.

(I am also ex-directory.)

wrote on Mar 20^th, 2005 at 11:38pm:

One trick they use is to pretend to be a market research company; then the effectively try to sell to you. (I am also ex-directory.)

Dorf,

I am not ex-directory (I regard being ex-directory as a deeply anti social, stupid and unnecessary thing to do as it has nothing whatsoever to do with being on the lists of telesales call centres) but in 15 months of TPS I have only had one blatant sales call in flagrant violation of the TPS from my former University (and I am complaining about that to the TPS and the Information Commissioner). And I work at home at the moment so I am around to receive these calls most of the time.

There have been a few automated overseas Las vegas jackpot type calls but I can just hang up on those and new ICSTIS rules delaying payment of call revenues (allowing time to close down new scam 0906 numbers before they het the money) will stop those soon.

I can only assume that those who need to use ACR or Choose to Refuse have either been very careless with their phone number or perhaps have made a lot of enemies in life.

I did have big problems with Spam Mail from Capital One, Direct Line, First Direct etc but the MPS (www.mpsonline.org.uk)  has stopped all that.

I have lived at this address for over 8 years so what is that you are doing to produce these calls that I am not doing?

I am personally astounded by just how well the TPS works.  So why is it that it doesn't seem to work for you?

Doesn't work 100% for me either.
Space Designs/ Space Kitchens phone us approx once a week. I have made an official complaint with TPS. The last 2 times I have stated to the caller that what they are doing is illegal and they should remove my name from their database. It seems to make no difference.

wrote on Mar 21^st, 2005 at 8:23am:

Doesn't work 100% for me either. Space Designs/ Space Kitchens phone us approx once a week. I have made an official complaint with TPS. The last 2 times I have stated to the caller that what they are doing is illegal and they should remove my name from their database. It seems to make no difference.

You now need to escalate matters by making a formal complaint to www.informationcommissioner.gov.uk

They have statutory powers to fine or otherwise take action against bodies which persistently ignore the TPS's list.  The TPS itself only administers the list and tells companies they should not call people on it.  But for the very, very few who violate the list the Information Commissioner is the only way to stop them for good.

Tell the Information Commissioner you have already logged a formal complaint with the TPS but that Space Kitchens are disregarding this and they should therefore investigate.

I trust you have never at any time given Space Kitchens permision to call your number and that if you ever did do this that you have now withdrawn that permission in writing?

As there are still millions of phone lines in the UK not TPS registered I really can't see what someone like Space Kitchens hopes to gain from their activities.

NGM I am sorry that you see being ex-directory as "anti-social".  Myself, I see it as a response to the extreme, worsening social conditions generally, and I feel that I been compelled to choose to become ex-directory to protect my own privacy. I only became ex-directory about 12 years ago. Prior to that I was always listed.

I think the reason that the TPS may not work quite as well for me as for some others is that I had been particularly targeted prior to registering, so then afterwards those intent on continuing to attempt to cold call me used various devious gambits to continue (e.g. double glazing companies). I would agree however that since registering the volume of cold sales calls has reduced. However, I seem to get more cold calls from locations abroad now, so perhaps that is the new strategy.

If you have got to waste lots of your time complaining it rather destroys the point of registering?

wrote on Mar 21^st, 2005 at 1:42pm:

NGM I am sorry that you see being ex-directory as "anti-social"

Dorf,

Lots of people like you seem to believe that being ex-directory will protect them from being targeted by telephone sellers.  But my experience is that telephone sellers don't use the rapidly out of date phone directory and instead buy database lists culled from numbers you have provided to credit card companies etc without ticking the box to say they can't sell the info to other valued partners.

Anyhow personally I am enormously inconvenienced by all the people who I need to contact who are ex-directory who I have no phone number for.  That is more inconvenuient than a few calls that I don't want to receive coming few although I hardly get any of those.

I have sat here all morning and the phone has not rung once from a telephone misseller.  It will not ring from one this week I am sure.  If it rang twice in the year from such a firm it would be a small price to pay in return for people who need to contact me being able to get in touch.

May be I don't get targetted here because this is a prosperous middle class address in far southern rural surrey where most cold callers are likely to get told politely to go away.  But if you live in an ordinary budget housing estate full of lots of Mr and Mrs Average they may think that you are better targets more likely to cave in.

I foolishly never used to tick the box saying don't circulate my details with market research firms etc and only later did I realise the consequences.  Hence the MPS registration which is totally successful - no Hospital Plan Insurance Services, Capital One, First Direct etc in my letterbox any more.

I have done campaiging for a political party from a big call centre in London and we avoid all those with TPS registration, even though we are technically researching and not selling.  Its not worth the potential hassle.

Yes I get the 0906 scamsters from abroad but they dial the numbers at random and don't use the phonebook and are totally outside uk law.  But ICSTIS are changing the rules so they can close the 0906 line operators down before they have passed the money to the overseas firm.  So this problem should stop soon.

I think if some of you get one unwanted sales call in the year its like a personal assualt but for me its not like that just a nuisance.  And the potential consequences of people who need to contact me not being able to get in touch are far more serious.

wrote on Mar 20^th, 2005 at 11:50pm:

I am not ex-directory (I regard being ex-directory as a deeply anti social, stupid and unnecessary thing to do as it has nothing whatsoever to do with being on the lists of telesales call centres)

There are many good reasons for being ex-directory.

I know someone who once received a number of anonymous calls, with the caller hanging up once the phone was answered. Then one day they were out when the call came, and their house was burgled.

Also, I know people who are teachers and so are ex-directory to avoid being harassed by pupils.

While it may not be a perfect defence against telesales, it's certainly very good. By being ex-directory and avoiding giving my home number on forms (except official ones) - or "ticking the box" where appropriate - I rarely receive such calls. Yet people who are listed and/or are less careful with their number are plagued regularly. The only calls I get are from my credit card company, and from BT - who, for obvious reasons, have my number.

If you think a bit of anonymity is antisocial, why not publish your real name - and even your phonenumber - in your profile on this site?

wrote on Mar 21^st, 2005 at 3:56pm:

Also, I know people who are teachers and so are ex-directory to avoid being harassed by pupils.

The school teacher thing is a legitimate reason for beinge ex-directory as is being a pop sta, major name footballer etc but the reason that 90% of people are ex-directory is because they wrongly imagine it is the main way to avoid telesales calls.  As you seemingly do.

This is not true as you can be in the phone directory year after year (as I am) and never get more than one or two sales calls a year as long as you registerwith the TPS.

If only the TPS would market their services and the lack of need to be ex-directory it would do everyone a big, big favour.  But of course they won't do this as their operation is paid for by the telesales companies so they have a conflict of interest as more registrations with them makes it much harder for most of their clients to do business.

Regarding burglaries my mother has been burgled at least 10 times at her house in the last 20 years but on not one occasion did they call to see if no one was at home.  They just waited till there was no car in the drive and no lights on in the house at night.  For the burglar to know your phone number suggests a level of premeditation and stalking of their victim which is highly unusual.  Normally they just break into the first empty looking house and have no idea of the name of the person living there.

Being anonymous in this forum is quite different as one is giving away a lot more about onself  and one's views than a phone number and address.

We've never had our home phone numbers anything but ex-directory.

And has nothing to do with thinking we won't get hit be telemarketing, it has always been simply we don't want to be listed in the telephone book, why should we want people who don't know us have our number?  

Now you have the choice not be in the book, but still be available via directory enquires.  We still aren't listed in either.

wrote on Mar 21^st, 2005 at 4:29pm:

And has nothing to do with thinking we won't get hit be telemarketing, it has always been simply we don't want to be listed in the telephone book, why should we want people who don't know us have our number?

Do you do anything exciting enough to make people actually want to call you just because you are listed in the phonebook?  I am involved in a minor way in local politics and I still only get a tiny number of calls from my entry on a public governmental website.  I don't get anyone at all who rings me up at random because my number is in the phonebook.  The Las Vegas Casino guys generate the numbers at random and don't use the phonebook at all.

Why don't you try registering with the TPS and then get yourself put in the next edition of the phonebook.  I bet you will find that you don't get any unwanted calls at all as a result of your phonebook entry.

Unfortunately a lot of the British always have been a boringly introverted and unsocial lot as the obsession with being ex-directory seems to show.

wrote on Mar 21^st, 2005 at 4:11pm:

This is not true as you can be in the phone directory year after year (as I am) and never get more than one or two sales calls a year as long as you registerwith the TPS.

I do suspect it's more to do with being careful who I give my number to, rather than being ex-directory.

If a customer gives their number to a company and doesn't tick the box preventing their number being passed on, does that override the fact that they are registered with the TPS?

We've been on the TPS service for many years, we first found out about that via Ed Doolan's programme on BBC WM.

And we fully understand, a lot of organisations use random diallers.

But that doesn't alter the fact there is no good reason for our number to be in the phone book.

I just don't want to be hassled via the phone, by the very people I stood up as witness against in court, just because they have some vendetta, maybe I should have just said I didn't see anything, but I don't think that was the right attitude.

wrote on Mar 21^st, 2005 at 4:50pm:

I do suspect it's more to do with being careful who I give my number to, rather than being ex-directory. If a customer gives their number to a company and doesn't tick the box preventing their number being passed on, does that override the fact that they are registered with the TPS?

The failure to tick the box on the form means that the company can call you even if you are registered with the TPS but if they sell your number in a marketing list to other companies you have no relationship with they can't use your number as long as you are TPS registered.

In practice most sales operations avoid TPS registered phone customers like the plague because it is less than 25% of all numbers and clearly most of those people are generally very unreceptive indeed to true cold call telesales calls.  The TPS is almost a helpful guide to them of who not to waste time calling.

Space Kitchens are clearly a bit player run by a bunch of dummies.  If enough people complain to the Information Commissioner they will get stopped.

Unfortunately it is a widely spread British urban myth that you must be ex-directory in order to avoid unwanted sales phone calls.  It probably was true 15 years ago before the invention of the TPS and computer based phone lists using sources other than the phone book (which can be up to 18 months out of date)

wrote on Mar 21^st, 2005 at 5:03pm:

I just don't want to be hassled via the phone, by the very people I stood up as witness against in court, just because they have some vendetta, maybe I should have just said I didn't see anything, but I don't think that was the right attitude.

Ok so you actually have a genuine reason to be ex-directory that has nothing to do with cold call sales people.

More importantly you don't want the people you testified against in court to have your home address.

That's the problem, unless you are genuinely in fear of your life, you have to reveal you name and address, in your witness statements.  

As this wasn't a murder trial, or anything quite as severe as that, withholding these details is not an option, and a reason why many people do not want to be a witness in court.

NGM, my reasons for becoming ex-directory have nothing to do with any fear of being cold-called by sales organisations.

From the cross section of other opinions expressed here you can see in these deteriorating social times some of the other reasons. They all are included in my reasons, with others not yet mentioned - such as the perverted type of caller who just looks for numbers in the directory to call, and may pick yours if listed; (I had a few of these before becoming ex-directory). Then there is the type of busybody who is just trying to find you, etc.

One does not choose to go ex-directory to be anti-social. It is principally that today's society has become "anti-social", and so one wants calls only from those whom one wishes to call, namely those to whom one gives one's number?

wrote on Mar 21^st, 2005 at 9:45pm:

From the cross section of other opinions expressed here you can see in these deteriorating social times some of the other reasons - such as the perverted type of caller who just looks for numbers in the directory to call, and may pick yours if listed

Dorf,

How is it that all those phone book roving perverts have never picked on me in any of the last 8 years then?  All of which have been with a directory listing.

Most of the deteriorating social times stuff is really a figment of the vivid imagination of a lot of the population rather than reality.  Too much believing of all the scare stories that are on television etc, etc.  And that's despite there being a couple of people round here I'm not on the best of terms with.

Of course if you live on the 19th floor of some nasty tower block in Stoke Newington I'm fully prepared to believe that you may have more to worry about from your fellow residents though.

But what about the friend on his way over to you by car who can't find your house but has forgotten to take your phone number with him?  Under your system he can't then get hold of you.?

Sometimes when people do not live such exciting lives they look for things to be scared about.  And the media often helps to fuel those fears.

If the problem is as bad as you suggest then making your house invisible would probably be more effective than simply having no number in the phone book.

The content of this topic has drifted away from my initial chat. To bring back to a topic that has been mentioned in this chat topic, I too am registered with both TPS and FaxPS. I understand that a telesales company pay something in the order of £4000 to receive the CD of names/phones not to contact, hence the delay in your details being put on the list to suit the monthly? CD update. The best scam I had was to receive a fax saying something along the lines that to stop junk faxes please fax xxxx (a premium £1 a minute or so rate). On following this up with FaxPS it appears that it was a legitimate purchase by a telesales company which faxed only the numbers that were listed. What a superb way of getting your target audience! I seem to recall that FaxPS did take action but I'm struggling to remember as this was probably three years ago.

BillH, I agree. The topic has drifted. We had better get back on track, but first I have to answer NGM and say that I do not know how it is that he has never had any of the perverts calling him. I do really believe though that it is not a figment of the mind that things have socially worsened generally, and the quality of life has declined. (Just as one example the NGN scams did not exist 20 years ago!) A great deal does depend upon where you live though, and that could be the reason for NGM's different view of the world.

wrote on Mar 21^st, 2005 at 10:25pm:

A great deal does depend upon where you live though, and that could be the reason for NGM's different view of the world.

I have lived in both central London and now out here in far Southern leafy Surrey.  Never had pervert calls in either place.  Only some objectionable sales calls (worst from Royal Bank of Scotland life assurance on a Sunday asking had I thought what would might happen to my relations if I died tomorrow) before I was TPS registered.

The only random pervert call I have ever taken was 20 years ago while living in Washington DC in the USA.  Some gay guy asking who I was etc and then suddenly asked if I wanted to suck his big hard you know what.  One pervert call in 20 years doesn't seem too excessive or big a price to pay for being in the phone book.