any alternative to 0870 1473921?  ??? ???

~ Thread title edited by Dave

Can you find more information? A web link maybe.

Is that a room number? If so, *** out the last few digits.

The name of the main provider would be useful. Also, is that number for a particular room, or is it a single number to access any room. (If it's the latter, there's little chance of finding the number).

The 0870 is provided by Torch. So you could try their allocated Manchester codes:

0161 615
0161 636
0161 638
0161 822

0161 134
0161 135
0161 138
0161 144

You probably won't be able to dial the last four from a BT line...

If the phone service is under one of Kingston's brands, one of those numbers might work. But if it's a provider such as Keycom, they tend to use voice over IP (VoIP) so there's no geographical alternative.

my daughter has just started at salford,it they said it would be cheaper to use the halls phones than using her mobile, how can it be if i have to use 0870 no.? i have tried  all the 0161 no. the first 4 all go to other people and the last 4 dont ring at all. my landline is through cable, a lot of other universities seem to have the same problem. another case of being ripped of again :(

Who provides the service? Is it Keycom? It might be known as Keytalk.

If it is, I believe they use VoIP, which means that there probably isn't an alternative.

thanks for your reply, it is keycom, Iam going to change my mobile network to the same as my daughters, it will be cheaper

Depending on mobile tariffs, it may well be cheaper to phone 0870 than mobile to mobile. In some circumstances it may well be cheaper to phone from landline to mobile (depending on network/time of day).

For example, Orange's latest PAYG tariff is 15p/min at all times to Orange and landlines. It's cheaper to call an Orange phone from a BT Together landline in the daytime at 13.6p/min than call it from a Orange PAYG phone on the latest tariff!

ye gods - I am sure that ofcom must be happy with this choice for the citizen-consumer.

I wonder how it is that Mr Nolan's stipulations on not allowing conflicts of interest in public life do not seem to have touched the almost exclusively ex major telco echelons of Ofcom senior management.

In the Advertising industry they don't allow the former poachers to become the gamekeepers.

wrote on Sep 26^th, 2005 at 1:51pm:

my daughter has just started at salford,it they said it would be cheaper to use the halls phones than using her mobile, how can it be if i have to use 0870 no.? i have tried  all the 0161 no. the first 4 all go to other people and the last 4 dont ring at all. my landline is through cable, a lot of other universities seem to have the same problem. another case of being ripped of again :(

See my suggestions in Post 2 of the below thread for ways to try to challenge this abuse.  Of course in this other case it was an 0871 at 10p per minute at all times but most of the issues are the same:-

http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?board=test;action=display;num=1127593168

You or your daughter should also consider submitting a request to the university under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 asking for disclosure of the underlying geographic numbers that these 0870 numbers point to.

You should also ask for details of the revenue share received by the university on each call and/or whether the telecoms equipment and lines were installed by the phone company free if they were allowed to use ripoff 0870 numbers.  You should ask the university to reveal if their facilities/telecoms/acommodation manager examined the cost of these calls compared to normal numbers starting 01 and 02 and whether the phone supplier offered an option to provide 01/02 numbers if the university had paid something towards the cost of the installation.

Anyone got any ideas about this building?  Its listed as CAR Residential Accommodation on the uni website

Bramall Court
Cannon Street
Salford
M3 6WA
Tel: 0161 295 8826
http://www.cars.salford.ac.uk/newaccom/includes/trinity.php



For your viewing
http://www.salford.ac.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=15190&sid=d205ad328310681a248df13f43812705
Posted: Fri 23/06/2006 17:16:33    Post subject:        Reply with quote
It's probably the nicest/most comfy accomodation

Room 1 in a D flat is quite big - bigger than any irwell room and the middle sized room of that flat (the 3rd room you can fit a coffee table and a sofa in and it would still be spacious)

You get proper sized beds in bramall too

Shared kitchen and bathroom (between 3 in a D flat)

Clara wrote on Jul 8^th, 2006 at 12:10pm:

Anyone got any ideas about this building?  Its listed as CAR Residential Accommodation on the uni website

Perhaps you can provide some more information. What 0870 numbers are used? *** out the last few digits of your room's number. What company operates the system? Is it Keytalk's Keycom service?

I am using an 0870 number in my Halls of Residence, and I have to dial an access code and PIN before I can call an external number. Yesterday my phone was playing up and refused the access code, voicemail number and support number with a "number not recognised", so I tried dialling direct (which normally does nothing). I called my mobile, and it rang with this number showing:
0161279200012** (where the last four numbers are my internal extension number).

I've tried dialling that number but I get an odd click and an engaged tone (incidentally, this also happens when I dial an invalid number after the access code, such as 1471).

Not long after, the access code started working again and direct dialling didn't.

Is there anything useful I can do with that 0161 number?

I have joined your post onto the existing thread on the Salford University phone system.

What is your 0870 number (with last digits **ed out)? Is it as in the first post? Is the 0870 specific for your room or is it one which you dial, and then, when it prompts you to, the caller enters the extension number?

I think that the number you have posted may be very useful.

Firstly, it's too many digits. The actual number is 0161 2792000. Did you call this number or did you input all the digits, including the extension number, when calling it back? Dialling it with too many digits may make it tell you "not recognised" or similar.

Secondly, the 0161 279 prefix is allocated to NTL, change (probably allocation) date 07/1996.

You say your extension number is 12**. I would try 0161 27922** where the bold bit is the last three digits of your internal extension number. Also try 0161 27912** where the bold bit is the extension number.

If you do get an answer, you might like to ask whether the person is a student in the accommodation. If we have an extension and 0161 pair, then we should be able to work out how the two relate.

Ah, sorry, didn't realise there was already a thread.

My number is 0870 14862**; it's a direct number for my room, there's no further extension, and the number isn't linked to my internal extension. When I activated the phone, they gave me a leaflet with an account number printed in it; I keyed that into the phone, and it read back the 0870 number to me. The extension number seems to be fixed to this room, as it's printed on stickers on the phone and on the wall socket (although they actually have the wrong number on them...)

Sorry, wasn't very clear on the 0161 number - I did dial it as you gave it, without the extension, with no luck. I've just tried it with the extension too, out of interest, and the same thing happens. It's like it's engaged, but every other tone is shorter (a sort of -./-./-. instead of -/-/-/-/-/-); the screen on my mobile shows "Network busy".

0161 279 22** does the same thing as 279 2000.
279 12** rings, and it went to an answer machine. The voice was female and possibly American; the voice on Keycom's automated system is male and American, but I couldn't work out if the female voice was computer-generated like Keycom's. So I'm not sure if that's a real person and a coincidence, or whether it's going somewhere. It's not a halls of residence phone though, because they don't go to voicemail on no-answer, only if it's switched on to intercept all calls.

JoeCz, can you confirm that the system is a Keycom one?

It is Keycom, yes.

We now know that the outgoing number is a NTL one, so I think that we should be looking for the incoming NTL numbers.

You can try 0161 279x*** and substitute the x with all the digits between 0 and 9 you haven't tried thus far.

There's no easy way of saying this, but there's a lot of 0161 NTL prefixes, and they are (followed by change date):

0161 000 06/2000*
0161 211 05/1997
0161 212 05/1997
0161 213 05/1997
0161 215 05/1997
0161 217 05/1997
0161 218 05/1997
0161 221 05/1997
0161 271 06/2006 (F-digit 4, 5)**
0161 278 12/1996
0161 279 07/1996
0161 280 07/1994
0161 281 07/1994
0161 282 07/1994
0161 283 07/1994
0161 284 07/1994
0161 285 07/1994
0161 286 03/1995
0161 287 06/1995
0161 288 07/1995
0161 290 07/1995
0161 291 07/1995
0161 292 07/1995
0161 293 03/1996
0161 294 03/1996
0161 295 03/1996
0161 296 05/1997
0161 345 07/1995
0161 355 07/1996
0161 374 11/1995
0161 400 01/1998
0161 610 03/1996
0161 611 03/1996
0161 612 03/1996
0161 613 04/1996
0161 614 04/1996
0161 616 05/2002
0161 617 05/2002
0161 630 03/1996
0161 631 03/1996
0161 661 07/1995
0161 716 08/2002
0161 718 07/1995
0161 950 03/1995
0161 959 03/1995

I wasn't kidding when I said "a lot"!  ::)

* The first number 0161 000 is a "national dialling only" meaning that the 0161 prefix must be dialled even from a telephone with a 0161 number. There has also been reports that these numbers can't be dialled from BT and some other providers. NTL (Virgin Media) and Orange are known to allow calls to be connected to these numbers. The purpose for "national dialling only" numbers is so that they can have non-geographicals (like 0870) pointed to them. It doesn't mean that this one is your accommodation's, it may be normal 'local' numbers.

** "F-digit" simply means the next digit in the prefix. In this case 0161 2714 and 0161 2715, so there's no point trying the f-digit as anything else for the 0161 271 prefix.

Going by the age of the system, I would try the prefixes that were allocated on or after 2000. That shortens your list of ones to try. It's also reasonable to assume that they only requested more prefixes because they had allocated (many of) the numbers in the other ones to end telephone users.

...goodness me, that IS a lot.
I'll start trying those when I've finished my current assignment, perhaps  :)
Thanks a lot for your help so far, it's much appreciated.

JoeCz wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2007 at 2:03pm:

...goodness me, that IS a lot. I'll start trying those when I've finished my current assignment, perhaps  :) Thanks a lot for your help so far, it's much appreciated.

07/1994 is the earliest date on any prefix (including BT), so I would take it that these numbers existed before then.

I'd definately try the later ones first. You might try each prefix and substitute the 'f-digit' (like I suggested with 0161 279) with 0 through to 9.

There aren't that many allocated since 2000, so I would try them with the last four (or three for 271) digits of your extension. Then I would go through and substitute the f-digit with numbers 0-9 which you haven't tried thus far.

Bear in mind that if someone answers (and this is true if you do it outside business hours) that it is probably not a business line you have dialled. That doesn't mean it is student accommodation, but those NTL (Virgin Media) residential (cable) lines are likely to not be part of a block of numbers.

For the student accommodation there is presumably a large block of consecutive numbers, eg 0161 234 5000 through to 0161 234 5199. A residential line needs just one number (not part of a group of numbers) and there's likely to be free numbers within those older prefixes. For this reason, if someone does answer out of business hours on one of those 2000-onwards prefixes, then make a note of it.

It's all detective work, ifs and buts. I can't say that you will definately find the number, but going by the assumptions I've explained here, then hopefully you can eliminate some of the less likely numbers.

I've tried all the combinations for the post-2000 numbers, and got various results:

• number not recognised
  
• that odd 'engaged' tone that isn't quite an engaged tone
  
• several that screech briefly and then play the three-note special information tone
  
• two numbers disconnected immediately; on subsequent attempts, screech and tone as above

One number rang but no-one answered, and three more ended up somewhere:

• The first is the one I mentioned in my earlier post.
  
• The second was answered by a person; I couldn't make out what he said but it sounded like, "BN, good evening." This was at 8.30pm on a Saturday but I think it was a business of some sort, from the way he spoke.
  
• The third rang once before connecting; there was a 'tone' sound as if someone was pressing a number key on the line, and then an automated system said, "Thank you for calling Artichain" or "Artisane" (tried twice but couldn't make it out for certain). "Your call will be transferred to the next available sales advisor."

Is the next step to try all the other pre-2000 numbers?
*is very much hoping the answer is 'no'!*

Oh, I Googled those final two numbers as well (thinking that, if they ARE businesses, they're likely to have a website) but nothing comes back.

JoeCz wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2007 at 8:59pm:

Is the next step to try all the other pre-2000 numbers? *is very much hoping the answer is 'no'!*

I would start from the newest and work back to the oldest.

Salford University telephone directory
http://directory.salford.ac.uk/Full/UniversityAll.pdf

Looks like offices generally have five number extensions begining with 5xxxx  whereas the student accomodation numbers that I know in Bramall are four figure starting  1xxx.  Some of the extensions in the list show as 295 xxxx.  I tried a number of 295 folowed by student extension numbers either complete or with the first number substituted. No success with that, only connections were to offices in the university.

That's right - for example, the external number for ISD is 295 2444, and their internal number is 52444. This is the same for all University offices etc.

The halls of residence are on a different system though - I've tried dialling these internal numbers from my phone and they don't work (which is annoying because I then have to pay to call them externally). Halls extensions are all four digits instead of five.

JoeCz wrote on Nov 11^th, 2007 at 12:35am:

The halls of residence are on a different system though - I've tried dialling these internal numbers from my phone and they don't work

Does this mean the halls extensions cannot be phoned from anywhere else in the uni apart from from other halls phones.  ( I believe that they do work between each other as I heard the guy on ext 1471 gets pretty peeved with the number of calls he gets! )

If they are accessible is there any clue in the access code?

That's correct (although the 1471 story is apocryphal, there isn't one  :))

As far as I can tell, the only use for the extensions is for other halls residents. They're not included in the direct dial number, nor is there a prompt for them at any time.

What do you mean by accessible?

I wondered if the residential extensions could be rung from other university internal phones (i.e. be accessed from elsewhere, hence be accessible) and if they can be is there a prefix code to the extension number which might  help us further.

There are a couple of numbers for administration extensions on the residential sites that use 0161 295  and 0161 832.   295 doesn't seem to lead to any residential extensions. 832 does ring on various numbers that I have tried, but the only answers so far have been fax lines.

Unfortunately I haven't the time to work through all the suggested codes with associated variations except by doing a bit at a time so I was hoping to find a short cut.

Ah, I see. I can't try, because I don't have access to a phone on the University network, but I'm fairly sure it wouldn't work.

Something that's been nagging at me; the halls phones aren't set up automatically, they have to be registered. I had to collect a leaflet with a preprinted account number on it, and then when I called the registration system, it read my external number back to me. On the other hand, the extensions seem to be fixed. There is a sticker on my phone and on the wall socket with an extension number printed on it. (It's not the right extension number, but I assume it's been changed at some point.)

If that's the case, I presume the resident in this room next year will have the same extension number but (having a new account) will have a new external number. Is this going to make it difficult to find a geographic number?

I guess it could happen either way. It may be that when you register for their service that an 0870 number is assigned to your extension, however, most institutions that I have seen have the extensions already assigned to an 0870 number that relates in some way to the extension number but often not in an obvious way. In this case the room 0870 number remains constant if activated. It is likely just an assignment in groups to the physical location of the extensions. However the geographical number is often more closely related to the extension number (usually the last 3 or four digits are the same) Sometimes the first digit or two is only used internally to route an extension to extension call and these are replaced by part of the geographical code, sometimes not. But once one extension and its associated numbers are found similar numbers are relatively easy to deduce.

Sometimes the institution publishes an internal extension number and external number together eg for a porter's office in which case trying the same code can yield results if the internal number is similar to the one you require. Otherwise I guess we just have to work our way through all the registered area codes :(

You could try asking at one of the administration desks eg main reception or accomodation office if they can ring an extension for you to reach someone "whose internal number you know - but not their 0870 number" It might just show if it can be done across the unversity system and might reveal another part of the number.  

Student Union might know if someone has already cracked the problem - there is often at least one practical joker on the union that lives to subvert the system and gathers such information. The price of a pint or a curry usually worked to find it out.

JoeCz wrote on Nov 13^th, 2007 at 3:02pm:

If that's the case, I presume the resident in this room next year will have the same extension number but (having a new account) will have a new external number. Is this going to make it difficult to find a geographic number?

I see no reason that the external 0161 number would be changed when the 0870 changes. I think (and going by previous experience of what we've found) that the external 0161 number will relate to the internal extension number. If they change the extension number then the external 0161 will change.

nuff wrote on Nov 13^th, 2007 at 5:48pm:

You could try asking at one of the administration desks eg main reception or accomodation office if they can ring an extension for you to reach someone "whose internal number you know - but not their 0870 number" It might just show if it can be done across the unversity system and might reveal another part of the number.

I'm not sure that would work - my room is right next to Reception and they know me, they'd want to know why I can't use my own phone.

0161 295 **** is the prefix for 5**** extensions, which is the University system.
I've tried putting my extension into 0161 832 ****, and it rang, but my phone didn't.

I haven't had a chance to try the pre-2000 numbers yet. I will when I get time.

JoeCz wrote on Nov 13^th, 2007 at 10:18pm:

A   nuff wrote on Nov 13th, 2007 at 5:48pm: You could try asking at one of the administration desks eg main reception or accomodation office - my room is right next to Reception and they know me, B I've tried putting my extension into 0161 832 ****, and it rang, but my phone didn't.

A  That's why I suggested main reception or accomodation office - somewhere it would be reasonable to want to contact someone in halls from rather than go all the way there - any friend's room number would do , even if you know they aren't there.

B  with the 832 have you also tried changing the first of the **** i.e 1***,2*** &c - it is not unknown for the first digit to be changed to fit telephone numbers available.

being onsite at least you can keep trying to phone yourself and know when you get it right!!

nuff wrote on Nov 13^th, 2007 at 10:40pm:

A That's why I suggested main reception or accomodation office - somewhere it would be reasonable to want to contact someone in halls from rather than go all the way there - any friend's room number would do , even if you know they aren't there.

Ahh, I see what you mean. I'll try that.


nuff wrote on Nov 13^th, 2007 at 10:40pm:

B with the 832 have you also tried changing the first of the **** i.e 1***,2*** &c - it is not unknown for the first digit to be changed to fit telephone numbers available.

No luck on any of those - some ring, but none of them ring here.

nuff wrote on Nov 13^th, 2007 at 5:48pm:

Sometimes the institution publishes an internal extension number and external number together eg for a porter's office in which case trying the same code can yield results if the internal number is similar to the one you require. Otherwise I guess we just have to work our way through all the registered area codes :( You could try asking at one of the administration desks eg main reception or accomodation office if they can ring an extension for you to reach someone "whose internal number you know - but not their 0870 number" It might just show if it can be done across the unversity system and might reveal another part of the number.

At the Uni of Sheffield, one of my friends told me about the external "accommodation" prefix number. They said that staff were given it in case they needed to contact students from home (and obviously wouldn't want to use the 0870 number!) Also, if the accommodation is owned by the University, it is highly likely that you can dial the extension number from the main University phone system (but I guess it will need prefixing with some digit - it is that digit that might help find the underlying geographic numbers).

I've got a friend at Sheffield who was issued with a geographic number for her room...  :-/

The accommodation here is owned by the University, but the phone lines, handsets and such are all provided by Keycom. That's why I'm not sure about it working. I'll see what I can find out though.

Renewed thanks for everyone's help and suggestions - much appreciated.

JoeCz wrote on Nov 14^th, 2007 at 4:41pm:

I've got a friend at Sheffield who was issued with a geographic number for her room...  :-/

Really? Was she in halls owned by the Uni? When I was in halls two years ago, they only gave an 0870 number on the handset - I only found out about the geographic through a friend of mine...


JoeCz wrote on Nov 14^th, 2007 at 4:41pm:

The accommodation here is owned by the University, but the phone lines, handsets and such are all provided by Keycom. That's why I'm not sure about it working. I'll see what I can find out though.

Well, despite the phone lines and stuff being provided by Keycom, I very much doubt the University is going to want to pay to contact students while they are in halls! I'm sure there will probably be some way to get through to them via the University phone system. Any further info you can uncover in that respect will probably help us track down the underlying geographic...

jgxenite wrote on Nov 14^th, 2007 at 5:48pm:

Really? Was she in halls owned by the Uni?

She was in Tapton last year, and was definitely given an 0114 number - I've just checked with her! :)


jgxenite wrote on Nov 14^th, 2007 at 5:48pm:

Well, despite the phone lines and stuff being provided by Keycom, I very much doubt the University is going to want to pay to contact students while they are in halls!

No official communication comes through the phones, it's all done by e-mail. They wouldn't be able to rely on using phones to contact everyone, as not everyone has the phones plugged in and registered. (As far as I know, there's only me and one other person in this house who've done so - and there are 12 of us here.) I will give it a try, though.

JoeCz wrote on Nov 14^th, 2007 at 6:21pm:

She was in Tapton last year, and was definitely given an 0114 number - I've just checked with her! :)

Wow... clearly they've changed things since I was there the year before and we got an 0870 number. Anywho, would you be able to check with her the first seven digits of her number (if she can remember them)? They were 0114 215 xxxx when I was in halls (where 5xxxx was the internal extension number).


JoeCz wrote on Nov 14^th, 2007 at 6:21pm:

jgxenite wrote on Nov 14th, 2007 at 5:48pm: Well, despite the phone lines and stuff being provided by Keycom, I very much doubt the University is going to want to pay to contact students while they are in halls! No official communication comes through the phones, it's all done by e-mail. They wouldn't be able to rely on using phones to contact everyone, as not everyone has the phones plugged in and registered. (As far as I know, there's only me and one other person in this house who've done so - and there are 12 of us here.) I will give it a try, though.

Oh yes, I guess that makes sense since the phones aren't activated by default. That'll be the difference between Salford and Sheffield where the phones don't actually need to be registered...

jgxenite wrote on Nov 14^th, 2007 at 6:28pm:

JoeCz wrote on Nov 14th, 2007 at 6:21pm: She was in Tapton last year, and was definitely given an 0114 number - I've just checked with her! :) Wow... clearly they've changed things since I was there the year before and we got an 0870 number. Anywho, would you be able to check with her the first seven digits of her number (if she can remember them)? They were 0114 215 xxxx when I was in halls (where 5xxxx was the internal extension number). ...

I know someone now in Ranmoor at Sheffield (jgxenite and I were discussing it in another topic) and they were only given the 0870 number (it was on the phone when they got there) No-one bothers with the phone because they all use mobiles, but finding the geographical number is saving us a fortune. (Thanks to this website!)  Their extensions are 5 xx xx  and are reached by 0114 21 5 xx xx  . You can now find it on the list under University of Sheffield.



If we can find another digit used before 1xxx for the manchester accomodation it might be worth trying codes than end with that digit before trying the rest.