Has anyone reported a company to Trading Standards for advertising 0845/0844 as 'local rate' or 0870/0871 as 'national rate' or with any other misleading indications of price?  If so, what was the response?

Reported Micro Direct Ltd, see here.

I contacted Trading Standards about the local GP practice which changed its number to 0870 and displayed NEG's poster in the reception (national rate, etc.).  Received the following reply:

Thank you for bringing to our attention the concerns you have over the cost of a call to the St Paul's Medical Centre.

I have spoken to the surgery about the poster that indicated calls were charged at the national rate and followed this with a letter of advice which was posted on Thursday.   My advice reflects that of the Central Office of Information, namely that call charges should be made clear to avoid misleading the public.

This of course did not stop the surgery from changing its number to 0844.  Further representation to Trading Standard resulted in the following reply:

My letter of advice to the surgery quoted the COI advice. I believe that advice to be couched in terms making it as applicable to 0844 numbers as 0870 or 0845.
Islington Trading Standards is not a campaigning body and cannot get involved in policies surrounding the arrangements surgeries may make for their telephone systems. Perhaps you should raise the issue with the Department of Health as their press release of 24 February gives the impression that the new 0845 & 0844 numbers will be "guaranteed low rate".
As we have acted within our remit and advised the surgery I am afraid I am unable to offer you any further assistance on this matter.

Norfolk Trading Standards have published a guidance document about  how you can describe NGN numbers etc etc.At last a Trading Standards dept gets off its backside and puts something in writing.

I suspect they have only done this to cover their own backs,as they use 0844!!!.

They also say you can remain silent about the cost of the call.Where as i believe the ASA ruled that you cannot. See this pdf document here.

http://www.iip.org.uk/FT9-1.pdf

BJ,

Where did you find that link?

Was it from Norfolk T/S site here because the URL of that link (when entered without the pdf link) displays:-

Quote:

IIP.org.uk Insects In Potatoes This website will be launching shortly with information on how to tackle insects in agricultural environments. Love and hugs, Joe

which appears out of context with regards to the link and NGN's, etc.

I was pointed to the link by a contact.

I have  since spoken to NCC Trading Standards and they confirmed that it was a leaflet they sent out to all Business,s in Norfolk.

You can mail them at trading.standards@norfolk.gov.uk

ok thanks.

I'll email them and point out ASA/CAP, OfCOM guidelines and hope they change their mind on remaining silent on the cost.

I have just heard that BT have agreed to certain changes in the way they do business "on the understanding that regulation will be lighter handed in the future".

My God...could it possibly be ANY lighter!!!

What an amazing statement! Two tenths of stuff all is still stuff all.....  >:(

I've just sent them a quick email pointing out ASA/CAP and OfCOM guidelines, etc.  I shall post any reply here.

Hmm I wonder why Norfolk got off their backsides to do somthing?
Is it beacuse of the county council using 0844's? and the fact that the county council had no less then 56 FOI's regarding the use of the 0844's?

I've had a reply back from Norfolk T/S as follows:-


Quote:

Thank you for your e-mail, and for your interest in our Fact Sheet.  I have read your e-mail carefully, and I note your comments. I am well aware of the ongoing debate around NTS services, and of the many concerns which have been raised by consumers and businesses.  Trading Standards have direct involvement only in a small part of this debate, namely the enforcement of the law relating to misleading price indications.  I am also aware of the various consultations and guidance which have been produced, including the guidance you have referred to. You have questioned how our guidance relates to ASA, CAP and OFCOM guidelines. You have referred us to OFCOM guidance.  However, this guidance merely states 'Any call price information in advertisements should be accurate and not misleading.'  This is consistent with advice that no price indication need be given, and there is no suggestion that a price indication must be given.  I therefore do not accept that there is any inconsistency between our guidance and OFCOM guidance. You have also referred to CAP/ASA guidance.  Their guidance of 10 March 2005 states that 'Marketers should not be silent on price'.  Their guidance of 4 August 2005 states more strongly that advertisers 'must state the maximum cost of calls to BT customers and indicate that call costs using non-BT phone lines may vary'.  I accept that this differs from the guidance we have published, and I will try to explain why we have given the specific guidance that a price indication is not required. Under the Consumer Protection Act 1987, it is a criminal offence for a business to give a misleading price indication to a consumer.  This Act is enforced by local Trading Standards authorities. Under the Price Marking Order 2004 (and some other minor pieces of related legislation), business are required to give price indications where they offer to sell certain products.  Services, including telecommunications services, are exempt from this requirement.  So there is no legal requirement for an advertiser to give any indication as to the price of a call to an '08' number. It follows that the easiest and most certain way for a trader to avoid giving a misleading price indication, and thereby committing an offence, is for them not to give a price indication at all.  As the enforcing authority, we are in no position to deny a business the easiest legal route to compliance.  We therefore do not intend to change our advice that businesses need not give a price indication. We recognise that a business might, as a result of our advice, decide to give no price indication at all.  That business might then be asked by the ASA to give a price indication, in so far as their advertisements fall within the scope of ASA regulation.  Our advice does not preclude them from complying with a request by the ASA, so long as their price indication is not misleading. We are looking forward to working with OFCOM and the CAP on the consumer and business guidance which was proposed in the recent OFCOM consultation.  In this work, Trading Standards will be represented through LACORS, the Local Authorities Co-ordinators of Regulatory Services.  Until we see what changes are being made to the NTS market, we are in no position to speculate about the content of any future guidance. Thank you again for raising your concerns with us, and I hope that I have answered your enquiry to your satisfaction.

From what I can see the reply is correct.  OfCOM don't specifically state that price of calls have to mentioned and ASA/CAP do but only have limited powers which he knows.

Can anyone think of a suitable response to this because I can't really think of one?

wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2005 at 3:23pm:

Can anyone think of a suitable response to this because I can't really think of one?

I can see the point being made; that TS are there to ensure companies are fair and don't mislead their customers, and that's what they're doing.

I think that this one's down to Ofcom to sort out.  ::)

wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2005 at 3:55pm:

..I think that this one's down to Ofcom to sort out.  ::)

Well I'll probably have won the lottery before that happens!   ;D

I can't see this guidance from Norfolk Trading Standards moves us on very far.

The views quoted by Leicester City Council's trading standards department appear to be far more helpful to our cause.

wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2005 at 4:47pm:

The views quoted by Leicester City Council's trading standards department appear to be far more helpful to our cause.

I wrote to Manchester TS about Micro Direct's 'national rate' description and quoted the Leicester TS link. The response I got said that Leicester TS no longer held that stance and that there was nothing they could do.

My email and Manchester TS' response is here.

wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2005 at 5:03pm:

The response I got said that Leicester TS no longer held that stance and that there was nothing they could do.

What evidence do they have of this stance by Leicester City Council Trading Standards?  Do they for instance have a statement in writing by its head of trading standards that their view has changed?

No I suspect that someone at Manchester Trading Standards wanted a quiet life and did not want to have to prosecute MicroDirect over this so they thought they could use the excuse that call pricing was now more competitive than in 2003 to try to claims that Leicester City Council's original analysis no longer applied.

This line of thought is utter garbage as on 1st July 2004 BT made Option 1 compulsory for most of its customers and at that point it became true that 0870 calls were more expensive than geographic calls all of the time for all BT Option 1-3 customers and for 0845 it became true compared to Option 1 off peak and at the weekend.

All you are looking at here is a typically spineless trading standards department wanting to do nothing because they will claim a company charging a few pence per minute extra isn't that serious an issue.  The fact this scam industry is worth hundred of millions a year seems to totally elude them!

Both Norfolk's advice and Leicester Trading Standards were mentioned in a letter to yesterday's Leicester Mercury.


Quote:

TRUE COST OF CALLS 10:30 - 27 September 2005 It is good to see that, following the good work of the likes of www.saynoto0870.com to bring the true cost of calling 0845 and 0870 numbers to the attention of the public, Norfolk County Council's trading standards department has taken the lead on increasing public awareness. As a trader, I recently received guidance from the trading standards department. I was told: "You should not use the terms 'local rate' or 'national rate', or any reference to local or national rates. "You also should not use words which could imply a local or national rate (for example, lo-call, low rate, national call, standard rate)." Businesses now have to make the public aware of the true cost of 0845/0870 calls. Calls to real local numbers are significantly less. Why can't our local trading standards take the same action? Joseph Hill, Leicester.

I've written a reply, quoting LTS's advice from 2003 and their recent comments relating to the Micro Direct case, and pointing out that their original advice is more relevant now than ever.

Norfolk Trading Standards have published their response to Ofcom's NTS Consultation - A Way Forward.

I have mentioned in the relevant thread here.

wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2005 at 4:51pm:

I was pointed to the link by a contact. I have  since spoken to NCC Trading Standards and they confirmed that it was a leaflet they sent out to all Business,s in Norfolk. You can mail them at trading.standards@norfolk.gov.uk

I have just spoken to Norfolk T S about the contradictory advice on the fact sheet and the statement "you do not have to state the cost of calling" and maintain that they are not conforming to CAP and ASA rules that say" you should not be silent on price"  and that they are contradictory by mentioning the law and penalties about misleading information,was told as they are not giving misleading information they are not guilty, but he has  said he will pass on my comments.

The leaflet was supplied by the Kings Lynn sub office of which the number given is 0844 8008013, anyone requiring the direct number it is 01553 669257

I Googled for more information on Consumer Protection Act 1987, Part III. I found this page on the Hampshire County Council website.

At the bottom it says that people overseas can call them on +44 845....  ::)

Which Trading Standards should you report a company to? The one you reside in or the one its head office is in?

I reported Micro Direct to Manchester TS, despite the fact that I don't live there. They responded, although they didn't do anything!

I am disappointed to find that Perrys Motor Sales have adopted 0845 numbers for their outlets. On the website they say that they cost the "Price of a Local Call". I have e-mail the chairman, Ken Savage, as he is the only senior management member that gets a mention on the website. I received nothing from him, so I e-mailed customer services on Friday. I will wait a few more days, but it looks as though I will have to go to TS with this.

Dave, see www.microdirect.co.uk -- no longer says it's national rate.

Dave wrote on Feb 20^th, 2006 at 3:43pm:

Which Trading Standards should you report a company to? The one you reside in or the one its head office is in? I reported Micro Direct to Manchester TS, despite the fact that I don't live there. They responded, although they didn't do anything! I am disappointed to find that Perrys Motor Sales have adopted 0845 numbers for their outlets. On the website they say that they cost the "Price of a Local Call". I have e-mail the chairman, Ken Savage, as he is the only senior management member that gets a mention on the website. I received nothing from him, so I e-mailed customer services on Friday. I will wait a few more days, but it looks as though I will have to go to TS with this.

You should report it to your own local T S and they will forward it to the "home authority" of the company concerned, don't expect any feedback,if anything like Lancs T S, unless you keep on at them.

derrick wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2006 at 11:18am:

Dave wrote on Feb 20th, 2006 at 3:43pm: Which Trading Standards should you report a company to? The one you reside in or the one its head office is in? I reported Micro Direct to Manchester TS, despite the fact that I don't live there. They responded, although they didn't do anything! I am disappointed to find that Perrys Motor Sales have adopted 0845 numbers for their outlets. On the website they say that they cost the "Price of a Local Call". I have e-mail the chairman, Ken Savage, as he is the only senior management member that gets a mention on the website. I received nothing from him, so I e-mailed customer services on Friday. I will wait a few more days, but it looks as though I will have to go to TS with this. You should report it to your own local T S and they will forward it to the "home authority" of the company concerned, don't expect any feedback,if anything like Lancs T S, unless you keep on at them.

Despite having written to my local trading standards about this outfit (Perrys Motor Sales) three years ago, they still do not get it. I have today received a "VIP Invitation" to a closed showroom event. To confirm my attendance I must ring them on "local rate number 0845 803 …".  >:(

Dave wrote on Aug 17^th, 2009 at 10:13pm:

Despite having written to my local trading standards about this outfit (Perrys Motor Sales) three years ago, they still do not get it. I have today received a "VIP Invitation" to a closed showroom event. To confirm my attendance I must ring them on "local rate number 0845 803 …".  >:(

Well if you received somehhing through the post, then the ASA will deal with it as well... usually helpful to quote their previous adjudications back at them ..

An A4 card "Personal Invitation" from Perrys to a Factory Direct Event has not only a new 0845 number, but it also continues to lie about it being "local rate".

What is the point in reporting things to trading standards when they do nothing??  :'(