I recently added a geographic number for the main Surrey Police switchboard to this website but it has yet to be added to the verified numbers list.

However after adding this new number and checking it was now in the Unverified numbers list I noticed that unverified geographic numbers were actually shown for the main switchboards of several other uk police forces and wandered how long those important numbers had been lying there unverified and therefore still unlisted in the main numbers lookup section.

Whilst appreciating that there are a lot of unverified numbers to get through surely something like a uk Police force number should be an absolute top priority as the police receive thousands of non emergency calls a day and yet have been especially bad at delisting all their former geographic numbers in favour of a single 0845 phone number.

Geographic numbers of particular obscure commercial company helplines etc are obviously very nice to have but surely government departments, police forces, doctors surgeries and regional health authorities should come at the absolute top of the checking priority list?

Its clear that the owners of this forum/website need more help to get the job done efficiently but they seem reluctant to ask for it or to accept it?  2,000+ numbers splits in to blocks of 100 numbers given to 20 people is not a very big job but 2,000 numbers for 2 people is a huge, daunting and almost unachievable task.

Just a suggestion as I know its all too easy to criticise.

By the way what happened to the unverified number of TopUpTv which has now been simply removed from the listings?  Since the website owners seem to have so little time for checking numbers it seems rather remarkable that they would have got round to a number listed only a few weeks ago.  I also notice that TopUpTv have now pulled the phone number of their London management offices from the BT phonebook lisings so I can only assume that the unverified number was removed at their request?  But this number was the only place that disgruntled customers could make an effective complaint about TopUp's use of an 0871 number for its main outsourced customer contact centre.

I have just spoken to an operator in the Surrey Police call centre who says that the old number (01483 571212) will be withdrawn. Whether that means it will be changed, I don't know.

wrote on May 20^th, 2005 at 2:29pm:

I have just spoken to an operator in the Surrey Police call centre who says that the old number (01483 571212) will be withdrawn. Whether that means it will be changed, I don't know.

That is what the Surrey Police main switchboard operators have been told to say Dave to try and stop people listing that number as an alternative to the 0845 one.  But what the operators say isn't true and that number isn't going to be withdrawn as its the main HQ and switchboard of the whole of Surrey Police any time in the foreseeable future.

Of course if you actually ring up and say "excuse me but is this a number I can list as being one that any member of the public can call to get hold of Surrey Police and avoid your shiny new 0845 call centre" then they will say no guv its not.

If on the other hand you call and say "I would like to report a fraudulent attempt to obtain my credit card number and its security number as I did a couple of days ago then they will happily connect you to the right crime reporting desk as they happily connected me without my having to call their 0845 number".  Ditto if you call and say I want to speak to Sgt Bloggs in the Dorking Police station they will connect you and not put you through to the faceless 0845 call centre manned by entirely civilian staff.

The 01483 switchboard number isn't going to be delisted or deactivated either at all or at least any time soon and it does work for avoiding the 0845 Surrey Police number so please, please can you list it.

If on the other hand you say that you must have the official approval of the switchboard operator that it can be listed on your site then your standard of proof for listing a geographic alternative number is far, far too high.  An alternative geographic number is now almost never an official number sanctioned by the organisation itself for public calls and this one does work so can you please, please list it.  Of course if people have an emergency call for the Police they should still call 999 or 112 but if it is a non emergency call this number is the only one you can ring to get to all parts of Surrey Police without calling their "single 0845 contact number".

Also if your own test of quality for checking out alternative numbers is so high then why is it that you list several geographic switchboard numbers at Sky where the operator is not allowed to and also cannot connect you through to anywhere else on the sales or customer service side of the company.

Instead the 0800 number quoted as being for "Disney" is the only one useful to members of the public for avoiding Sky's main 0870 customer service number so why can't you simplify the listings to just that number rather than listing a load of irrelevant Sky main swithcboard numbers intended only for business to business calls.

If the number I have given you for Surrey Police isn't good enough to meet your own stringent standards then please explain to me exactly what would be??

wrote on May 20^th, 2005 at 2:55pm:

That is what the Surrey Police main switchboard operators have been told to say Dave to try and stop people listing that number as an alternative to the 0845 one.  But what the operators say isn't true and that number isn't going to be withdrawn as its the main HQ and switchboard of the whole of Surrey Police any time in the foreseeable future.

As a public body they aren't going to change the 'old' number, as this would obviously impact on people wishing to contact them. If they do, I'm sure you will be quick to have the number in the database changed.


wrote on May 20^th, 2005 at 2:55pm:

Of course if you actually ring up and say "excuse me but is this a number I can list as being one that any member of the public can call to get hold of Surrey Police and avoid your shiny new 0845 call centre" then they will say no guv its not.

The switchboard put me through to the call centre who told me that it is to be withdrawn.


wrote on May 20^th, 2005 at 2:55pm:

If on the other hand you say that you must have the official approval of the switchboard operator that it can be listed on your site then your standard of proof for listing a geographic alternative number is far, far too high.

As for other police numbers, I have just phone Norfolk Police and explained about 0845 issues to the operator who put me through to the department responsible for putting this in place. The person I spoke to said he was aware of Saynoto0870 and confirmed the geo number listed is the best for non-emergencies. He also provided me with the fax alternative, which I have listed.

NGM, please get down off your high horse! All the 'you's in your post; I don't run the website, I am simply checking numbers. Of course, ideally we would like to have the exact alternative, but that is obviously not always possible, especially for larger organisations.

wrote on May 20^th, 2005 at 3:14pm:

As a public body they aren't going to change the 'old' number, as this would obviously impact on people wishing to contact them. If they do, I'm sure you will be quick to have the number in the database changed. The switchboard put me through to the call centre who told me that it is to be withdrawn..

If you think of the average civilian worker in their 0845 call centre factory as having about as much integrity or free spirit as the members of the SS working at Auschwitz then you will surely realise that they are only capable of quoting and acting on the official "corporate line" no matter how much baloney that may involve.

You got through to the 0845 call centre didn't you which proves that the geographic 01483 number I gave you is a valid alternative.  Of course these call centre clowns always maintain that you should not call them that way but as long as one gets through one just simply ignores the corporate nonsense speak.

I have already challenged this through Surrey Police Authority and got some nonsensical letter back about it being more convenient for the public to have a single 0845 number.  They totally ignored my point about the 11p per minute cost that applies 24/7 from BT phone boxes.

I have spoken to the 0845 call centre manager twice who has given me all the usual rubbish about how its not up to them if people choose BT Option 3 etc and that it only costs a few pence per minute more to call them etc, etc.  Another corporate android in other words.

Now I have to make a Freedom of Information Act request to the chief constable asking about how many calls they get a day and per month and what the total revenue take is per month and per annum and/or what the telco that they have the agreement with is doing with the money and/or what kickbacks Surrey Police get from the telco who installed the system.


wrote on May 20^th, 2005 at 3:14pm:

Of course, ideally we would like to have the exact alternative, but that is obviously not always possible, especially for larger organisations.

Precisely so can you please, please now list the 01483 number I gave you as members of the public will get through to where they need to, even if they get told erroneously that "the number is soon to be withdrawn" and all the other usual call centre management cynical lies.

Also its only if you ask to speak to the main 0845 call  centre itself that you get hassle.  If you ask to speak to a particular crime reporting desk or to a particular officer on the force they will just put you through.

So given that this is an impefect world and that some call centre managers are utterly ruthless in trying to target their own goal of trying to get us all to call their 084/7x number can you please now list the non geographic number that I took the trouble to both obtain (it was not easy) and then give you.

Also surely the fact that these organisations find it rather inconvenient and confusing to have people still ringing their main switchboard number instead of the 0845 call centre is one of the main objects of our whole exercise on this website?

The more we inconvenience them due to the way they have tried to inconvenience us then the more they will be sorry and prepared to list a direct geographic alternative number for the call centre as well.

Surrey Police is precisely the sort of non commercial public sector body who Ofcom believe must list a geographic alternative to the 084x/7x number instead of which they list absolutely none at all.

wrote on May 20^th, 2005 at 3:39pm:

I have spoken to the 0845 call centre manager twice who has given me all the usual rubbish about how its not up to them if people choose BT Option 3 etc and that it only costs a few pence per minute more to call them etc, etc.  Another corporate android in other words.

NGM, I have listed the number. This is my point. 'Local rate', by definition would have to be the same rate as a local call on all packages. The fact that it is physically impossible because of the way the numbers work seem completely alien to some.

I remember being told not to go with strangers when I was younger, so how come some police forces are that thick they believe the local rate nonsense?

A completely different story with Devon & Cornwall Police. They are either seriously mislead or are not to be trusted. See this page on their website, which even has a nice big poster telling you about their new number. And they have spent money on radio ads aswell!

I did ask on the geographical number (01392 268333) if it was for non-emergencies, and the operator proceeded to give me the 0845 and maintained the 'local' lie. She said that the rate 0845 is charged at is beyond their control. They put it in place, so why didn't they use a 09 number? Finally, if I wish to complain about it, I must ring it!!!

Please feel free to try out the 01392 number and let us know how you get on.

wrote on May 20^th, 2005 at 3:50pm:

I did ask on the geographical number (01392 268333) if it was for non-emergencies, and the operator proceeded to give me the 0845 and maintained the 'local' lie

Dave,

This number is the number for the Devon & Cornwall Police Authority and not for the Devon & Cornwall Police so it wouldn't be the right place to call for any ordinary crime report or on other police related business.  The role of the Police Authority is merely to evaluate the performance of the Police and strategic policy and not to take indiviudal complaints about crime.

It is however the right place to complain about the decision to use an 0845 number at a strategic level, about the revenue and commercial arrangements involved and potential difficulties for the public in gaining access to the police on this number at an affordable price.

Despite this and despite the fact that Surrey Police Authority had no problem in accepting that my complaint was a legitimate one for investigation by them the very frosty lady at Devon & Cornwall Police Authority tried to claim it was nothing to do with them.  When pressed as to why Surrey Police Authority had thought it was their business she said I could write to the Chief Executive of the D & C Police Authority about it.

Usual problem of financially innumerate narrow minded junior staff unable to comprehend the issue and trained by BT from birth that 0845 is a "local rate number".

By the way the Surrey Police make equally pious and disgusting claims for their 0845 contact centre as shown here after a visit by HRH the Duke of York in February.

www.surrey.police.uk/area_item.asp?area=12&itemID=5354&division=

They claim to "deliver a consistently professional service and increase callers’ satisfaction with the service they receive and a system has now been developed for measuring quality of service provided to customers"  Quite how the 0845 number increases this satisfaction is surely anyone's guess.

The Surrey Police 0845 call centre is no accident whatsoever as the last chief constable, Dennis O' Connor, who implemented it was a Blairite target hitter through and through and no doubt implemented the 0845 number on direct government advice about reducing call centre running costs.