I posted this originally in error to the FOI section and have been rightfully admonished!

Anyway, hopefully, now in the right place this is what I posted!

I e-mailed Nat West with the following:-

I would like to express my irritation that nearly all contact numbers with various sections of NatWest are 0845 or, even worse, 0870 numbers, without the provision of an orthodox line number eg 0208...01709....

Here is their pathetic response. Can this be reported to any 'governing' body?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Thank you for your e-mail about our telephone numbers.

I advise that we use these numbers as the give us flexibility in being able to divert calls to different telephone centres at peak periods. If we used standard 01, 02 numbers this would not be possible and so at busy times we would not be able to answer all calls received.

I advise that with regards to 0870 numbers we get approximately 1p per minute for each 0870 call.  That is the standard practice across the Telecoms industry and  service providers such as the Royal Bank of Scotland. The 1p contributes to the cost of the infrastructure in place to deliver
that call.  The customer pays the national call rate applied by whoever they have chosen as their Telephone Service Provider.

Within the various Royal Bank of Scotland business areas and the use of 0800, 0845 and 0870 numbers, the majority of calls are subsidised by the Bank.  Only some 10% of calls use the 0870 numbers.

The situation with the 0845 number is that the customer pays the local call rate of their Telephone Service Provider and the Bank subsidises that call to make up the difference.

I appreciate your concern but we cannot dictate who the customer chooses as their Telephone Service Provider or whether they decide to call using fixed or mobile phones.

We have no plans at present to introduce the option of a regular land line number.

I hope that I have clarified the position for you.

Stephen Dix
Customer Relations  

Mr Dix clearly doesnt know much about the points you are raising and is presumably just giving you the standard response.

visit
http://www.natwest.com/contactus/index.asp?navid=contact_us

You will see there a list of alternative  numbers.I find it odd that if you want to ring one of the 0845 numbers from abroad,they ask you to call a 0870 one .

Thanks for that.

Interestingly it was because they had invited me to re activate my Actionline Account that I discovered the exact point you have made.

Natwest also have 0845 numbers for local branches!!  How can this help deliver calls more efficiently.  If you want to telephone your own branch, then you would telephone your branch.  If you didn't mind whether it was answered by the call centre, you would use the call centre.  The 0845 number might be able to transfer to the call centre if the branch line is engaged, but the whole process would mean explaining your situation to someone else, who would then maybe refer you back to your branch, thus wasting loads of your own time, and theirs, with the telephone meter running on 0845 in the process
 
I had a serious complaint recently against my local Natwest branch, and I wrote to their freepost address, and it meant they had to reply back by post, as well as pay to receive freepost mail.

Thankfully they have resolved the complaint now!!

Strange is it not when the Natwest's owner RBS Group has all their geo branch numbers printed on your statement and they also offer geo number in the front of your cheque book for their call centres.....

RBS 1 NWB 0  = Natwest just rips you off as a customer so move you accout to the RBS and get standard numbers to ring them on

... or Lloyds, whose telephone banking is on an 0800 number.  (If you'd prefer to speak to a person, there's an 0845 number instead, but you can either dial the 0800 number and press for an agent (who sometimes insists on only helping with how to use the automated service, yet they're all in the same call centre) or simply dial the 01 alternative, clearly stated on Lloyds' own website/literature.

The use extent of the use of 0870/0845 numbers by Natwest is unbelievable. I phoned their customer services line on freephone 0800 505050 to complain and also was sent a letter saying that they only received 1p per min from the call, it was a decision taken at board level and would not be reviewed. However I was recently given a card in my branch with the telephone number to contact the branch which contained the 0845 number and a number to dial from abroad!!!! I've used it and it works. Try asking for one. I also spotted in a paper recently a recruitment advert for Natwest-what was the number to ring? You've guessed it 0870!!!! They just can't resist making money even from potential employees.  

I recently complained to Natwest about their use of an 0845 number for customers to report faults/possible fraudulent activity on their servicetills. I pointed out that they were asking their customers to use a nongeographic number which would cost them more to dial. Also mentioned that the Natwest card loss number is 0870 so to prevent fraud (and save them money!) they were asking their customers to pay up to 8p per minute for the priviledge, always assuming they could get to a landline, much more from a mobile. They have now replied to me and I hope you will find their reply of interest:


"Thnk you for your call to Customer Relations about income that the Bank derives from the 0870 numbers that we use in certain areas.

While there is use of 0800,0845 and 0870 numbers within the Royal Bank of Scotland business areas, the majority of these calls are subsidised by the Bank. Only some 10% of calls use the 0870 numbers.

You are correct in saying that the Bank gets some revenue from these calls and this equates to approximately 3p per minute for each 0870 call. This is standard practice across the Telecoms industry and service providers such as the Royal Bank of Scotland, although it is likely to change in the future. The 3p contributes to the cost of the systems and infrastructure in place to deliver that call.

I hope this clarifies this matter for you"

Well actually no! The pointI raised has not been answered I will go back and try to get a more meaningful reply. (I noticed that the number to report a fault on a Lloyds Bank machine is free-I did mention this but it has been ignored!)

It is also interesting to see that they say there is a change coming-will try to find out what they are proposing in the future.




 

davis wrote on Feb 11^th, 2006 at 2:21pm:

It is also interesting to see that they say there is a change coming-will try to find out what they are proposing in the future.

Aren't they referring to Ofcom's proposed changes, which would see the cost of 0870 calls reduced to that of geographical calls with no revenue sharing? This might well mean Natwest switch to using 0871 or 084x!

You are correct in saying that the Bank gets some revenue from these calls and this equates to approximately 3p per minute for each 0870 call. This is standard practice across the Telecoms industry and service providers such as the Royal Bank of Scotland, although it is likely to change in the future. The 3p contributes to the cost of the systems and infrastructure in place to deliver that call.

And Natwest spend loads of adverts, such as saying they're proud to be different by not sending calls out to India, they give their local branch numbers (although on 0845!!) and their slogan "There is another way"

Strange that when someone complains about their use of 0870 numbers, their response is that it's general practice amongst others, and if every other bank does it, it's ok to do it.

Perhaps if Natwest really wanted us to believe "There's another way" then they would give us a geographical number, and slate the other banks for forcing us to use 0870 numbers.

Shiggaddi wrote on Feb 12^th, 2006 at 12:00am:

Perhaps if Natwest really wanted us to believe "There's another way" then they would give us a geographical number, and slate the other banks for forcing us to use 0870 numbers.

I wonder why some bright spark (surely there must be one?) in their PR department hasn't suggested just that - it wouldn't get my business back but it'd be a great headline for a new advertising campaign.

Or peraps it has been suggested but 'the powers that be' are too comfortable with the abuse to listen?

“There is Another Way” - change your bank.   Move to a bank that tells the truth in its adverts and treats it customers properly.  Companies who use 087x and 084x numbers and do not readily provide geographical alternatives are basically sharks and should be treated as such.

If a Bank makes false a statement (and the statement quoted above is false), or a statement that is misleading, make an official complaint  to the Banking Ombudsman - see  www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk

But first ask the writer of the letter to put in place the Bank’s internal complaints procedure.

Funny - did exactly that with Egg last Friday night. Had been hanging on listening to muzak for about 3 hours in total, over the course of 10 days. Any poor sod who was using the 0845 version of their number, especially from a mobile, would have racked up a hefty charge.

So when they finally dealt with the original complaint, I was suitably wound up to then attack them over non provision of an 01 number equivalents on their website. The monkey on the end of the phone was completely thrown, and quickly handed me over to his organ grinder. He was equally unaware of the true cost of these calls, but was clearly quite shocked when I explained, and started handing out further goodwill cash.

More importantly, I got him to log it as a formal complaint, (3 different lies in the same phonecall was quite impressive) which now falls under the dispute resolution regime imposed by the FSA. I don't know how far up the organisation I will now be able to push this, but it's a start.

To me, this offers us another way to persuade the users of these numbers that the cost is starting to reverse. If we make them jump through the hoops of responding to formal complaints, within FSA imposed timescales, it will start to cost them, substantially.

Egg are far from the worst offender in this arena, and to be honest, if/when you eventually get through, their customer service is pretty good. However, Nafwest / Direct Line and their fellow RBS puppets are serial offenders, and, as pointed out above, run seriously dishonest advertising. Therefore fair game!

Graham