Does anyone know where I can find details of the cost of calling 0844, 0845, 0870, 0871 and geographic numbers on the various mobile tariffs?  

Magenta Systems is good for landlines, but I can't find any equivalent for mobiles.

As far as I'm aware there is none.  Mobile companies charge various prices to NGN numbers some depending on type of NGN and some depending on type of tariff (and I don't just mean PAYG or Contract but the various tariffs available within these two categories).

The same can be said for Geographicals but they are generally cheaper than NGN numbers.

Good heavens, now there's a service that our regulator could provide.
And it would be useful as well, unlike...  ;)

wrote on Aug 17^th, 2005 at 4:42pm:

Good heavens, now there's a service that our regulator could provide. And it would be useful as well, unlike...  ;)

I believe (but not sure) that the networks (including mobile networks) under their license are obliged to clearly indicate the costs of calling landlines which they basically do but that's where it ends as they don't clearly indicate the cost to NGN's which are just as common as ringing geographicals these days except of course can be extremely expensive.  I believe it is difficult to get the call charges to NGN numbers from networks on all their tariffs easily unlike geo numbers.

In my opinion, and assuming I'm right in saying networks are under this obligation under their license conditions, then this should be extended to NGN numbers as well - especially the very common 0845/0870 numbers.

sometimes it is rather difficult to find out these tariffs

I asked Orange about 0871 numbers on OVP Virgin

two and a half hours on the phone, including 40 minutes to Virgin CS (who called me back!)

43p/min, should be 15p/min

They usually all hide the tariffs for these in the smallest of small print, if they publicise them at all. Sometimes they are extremely secretive about their actual rates even if they are specifically asked!

(It is of course all about having something to hide, as we have discussed before.)

It took me several phone calls and wrong answers from Vodafone Customer Services staff to find that on Vodafone Smartplus they charge 30p peak and 10p off peak to all 084/7 numbers.  At one stage it seemed like it was 30p at all times.

On the Sunday night I called I was disconnected twice after leaving my landline queuing for 45 minutes on speakerphone calling them on their geographic Newbury number with 18866 (so only 2p per call rather than the 25p they charge on their mobile number).  Only after midnight and my third call did I finally get through.

I raised this abysmal level of customers service with the UK CEO and said I thought they should offer £50 call credit as compensation after which they came back and said would I accept £60 calling credit.  Should pay for a few 0870 calls....

I subsequently queried why 0870 and 0845 prices are on their website and got some mindless reply by letter from Debbie of customer services claiming that the price was there on the website because these calls were charged the same as National Rate calls.  But they aren't because geographic calls cost 5p per minute off peak on Smartplus and are free for 57 minutes after the first 3 minutes offpeak with their Stop the Clock deal.  084/7 go on clocking up at 10p per minute.

I have been meaning to fire off another broadside with their uk and European CEOs but there are only so many hours in the day.  At least they did give me the £60 compensation though.

I spoke with someone at OfCOM over this yesterday and was told that they should ideally have it on their website or available to hand if you request it from them.  When I informed him that when I queried it with one provider I got different answers everytime I rung and some mobile networks don't actually mention the cost of ringing NGN's.  I asked could I complain with them (OfCOM) over it saying that if I complained to the networks then a c/s rep would fob me off and that would be the end but if OfCOM mentioned it to the networks then they would actually publish their rates instead of hiding them.  I was then asked to put it in an email to them which I shall do today if I have time.

Funny thing was I started the conversation of with, "I've got a question about cost of 0845/0870 numbers" and his reply was "yes" but from the tone in his voice it was a oh no not again type of "yes".  His tone all changed when he realised I wasn't complaining about the cost in general or the revenue sharing, etc just the lack of information about them on the mobile networks site.

The thing is bbb how come there are so many things glaringly wrong to us that Ofcom's management seem not to pick up on or take action on before they get out of hand?  Surely if Ofcom were a good regulator there would be no need for us to complain because the phone companies would be quaking in their boots at another £100 million Ofcom fine and would have compliance and legal men working night and day to make sure that they were disclosing all the information to the public that Ofcom required.  This would be the situation in perhaps say the USA regulatory and especially legal environments.

In the UK the telcos regard Ofcom with seemingly total contempt as being almost totally ineffective saps and know that the very worst that can happen is just a public slap on the wrists for even the most deliberately deceitful and anti customer behaviour.  The 09 scam operators would probably be rather more frightened of ICSTIS if it were not for the fact that all the illegal ones are located overseas and have multiple identities so ICSTIS cannot touch them.  Of course if it was made illegal to run an 09 line unless you had a uk bank account for the payments with all payments being delayed 30 days (to allow complaints to come in about the lines) then there would not be any 09 issues.

The telecoms regulators in this country are unfortunately total amateurs.  Or perhaps it is worse than that looking at where many of their staff previously worked.

By the way don't you always find most Ofcom Contact Centre staff basically sulky and unhelpful, usually giving you the feeling that you have ruined their day by calling?

Surely it is not that they are "amateurs". The key individuals are in fact extremely competent professionals!

The problem is that the key Ofcom individuals are not "employed" by the entity to which they hold the greatest loyalty (and from which they probably receive their greatest cash-flow? Allegience ultimately is concerned with the greatest yield methinks.)

wrote on Aug 27^th, 2005 at 8:12pm:

The problem is that the key Ofcom individuals are not "employed" by the entity to which they hold the greatest loyalty (and from which they probably receive their greatest cash-flow? Allegience ultimately is concerned with the greatest yield methinks.)

How do they receive a cash flow from these other mysterious entities if they are not employed by them?  I suppose they may still hold plenty of shares in those other entities although I would have hoped that government rules would have forced them to dispose of more than a small shareholding in any telco due to the obvious conflict of interest issue that would tend to arise.

wrote on Aug 27^th, 2005 at 8:36am:

I spoke with someone at OfCOM over this yesterday and was told that they should ideally have it on their website or available to hand if you request it from them.  ...

Is should the strongest word Ofcom can use?  ::)

Does Ofcom not realise that the disclosure of such pricing information is not happening?

wrote on Aug 28^th, 2005 at 1:51pm:

Is should the strongest word Ofcom can use?  ::) Does Ofcom not realise that the disclosure of such pricing information is not happening?

Unfortunately Ofcom lives in a fairy castle world where the big telcos are all delightful philanthropists and the words "please" and " would you mind" will put everything right.

The idea that regulators might have to actually fine people or close them down for blatantly ignoring the regulations seems to totally elude them.

But then hey if you were them you wouldn't want to upset your friends at the companies you had yourself been working for until only a year or two ago.  After all you never know when you might need another job with them. ;) ::)

Since the government doesn't seem to fire senior Ofcom staff or not pay their bonuses for failing to achieve anything on telecoms regulation then what incentive do they have to do a better job?