Skype is a simple piece of software you can download for free onto your PC. Millions around the world have done so.

Then you just need a headset, and you can make calls free anywhere in the world to other Skype users. You can also buy phones that work with Skype.

You can also call landlines at very good rates; and have your own geographical incoming number.

www.skype.com

eBay has just brought Skype for $2.5 Billion.

Why?

Because eBay are going to integrate Skype into their offering to buyer and sellers. They're going to encourage all eBay users to have a Skype account - and they are going to make it easy for them to do so.

Example: You have Skype on your PC and your looking at an item on eBay. There will be a link for you to click on - and viola! - your PC will dial the seller's Skype number and you'll be speaking to them for free.

There are many, many large organizations now selling on eBay - and now the general public are going to be introduced to the concept of calling companies for free on Skype - just like they speak to their friends free on Skype.

This WILL start to filter into the outside world. Customers will start to ask why the company they are dealing with don't have a Skype number. And at some point not having a Skype number will start to become a commercial disadvantage.

And at some point the government - oh so desperate to be seen as "hip" and fully in tune with latest IT - will start to feel the pressure.

It's not going to happen overnight; and yes, there will be a wailing and gnashing of teeth - but it's coming. Not just Skype - but other VoIP systems (based on the more universal SIP protocol).

At the moment the public know that if they call an 0800 number it's free; but they sort of think that 01/02/0845/0870 are somehow the same-ish.

But they KNOW Skype calls are free - and that it's easy. So the demand will rise for companies to have Skype.

It won't be the end of 0845/0870 - but it's a poke in the eye. And yes, companies will have Skype for sales; but 0870 for customer services. And yes, some clever-clogs will develop some premium-rate service for VoIP/Skpye.

But the screw will get tighter and tighter.

OK NGM - do you're worst  8)

Well, not everyone is as excited as you are PeDaSp about this purchase! Here is what the editor Preston Gralla of 'Networking Pipeline' - http://www.networkingpipeline.com (an online magazine) - said on 8 September:-


Quote:

"Beware The VoIP Bubble eBay's reported buyout offer for Skype for up to $3 billion shows that VoIP may prove to be as big a bubble as the Internet had been. In fact, Skype will be the poster child for the bubble, just as the Pets.com sock puppet was a symbol of Internet stock excesses. Is the VoIP startup really worth up to $3 billion, when there are already larger competitors like Vonage out there, and when major telecom companies are all preparing their own VoIP offerings? Of course not. Skype would do well to sell out now, while they can get a massively inflated price for the company. For them, it's time to party like it's 1999. Their buyer gets only a hangover."

Then on 12 September, he followed with:


Quote:

"Has eBay Been Suckered? eBay made a bad bet in buying VoIP company Skype for an astonishing $2.6 billion -- and maybe as much as $4.1 billion, depending on whether performance goals can be hit. Not bad for a company that gives away its software. Sure, the free Skype software is very nice. But it's not up to $41. billion nice, especially considering that the competition for consumer-level VoIP is brutal. Vonage, telecom companies, cable companies...they're all chasing the same dollars. If I owned eBay stock, I'd be selling today. They made a bid on an auction and got suckered."

Yes, VoIP has a big future - but it will still need the telcos to make the connection, and they will make sure they keep as much control as possible. For example, it would be worth having VoIP on DSL IF you could 'buy' a "raw" DSL line with no conventional dialtone. I bet you can't, though!! And do you REALLY think that BT will allow that? Were they pink pigs I saw again......... ;)

Good point mikeinnc - I agree totally!

$3Billion is a CRAZY price to pay - CRAZY. SIP based VoIP softphones are two-a-penny and easy to install and set-up. And SIP will be the dominant protocol.

But just as the internet didn't disappear with the dotcom crash; VoIP is not going to disappear after this mini-VoIP-bubble.

And "naked" DSL (net connection without the telephone line) will come at some point - as it already has for millions of cable customers.

I have DSL with a phone line at present. But it's still cost-effective for me to use VoIP. With VoIP I pay no line rental; get VERY cheap calls ($20pm for unlimited calling to 24 countries); and I can call any other SIP users in the world for free. Plus I get lots of other goodies like VoiceMail to Email etc...

wrote on Sep 13^th, 2005 at 12:23am:

eBay has just brought Skype for $2.5 Billion. Why? Because eBay are going to integrate Skype into their offering to buyer and sellers. They're going to encourage all eBay users to have a Skype account - and they are going to make it easy for them to do so.

This seems to prove that having a brain counts for absolutely nothing in business these days.  The only value of Skype is in the established customer base and that can't be worth more than a few million dollars.  Anyone could have knocked up the software for under 100,000 USD

Big business is seemingly now all about big willies and massive corporate egos.  Exactly the same thing happened when the mobile companies paid billions for virtually worthless 3G mobile licenses.

No wonder I didn't enjoy the corporate world when only the biggest morons talking the bilggest bullshit now seem to rise to the top of the whole stinking heap.

Yes - it's bizarre.

But their logic (!) is that the income projections for Skype in the future are so great that their investment will be justified.

Plus they get INSTANT access to millions of users and an already well-established brand (Skype).

But it would be so easy for them to splash out just $100K (or even much less if they just licensed existing SIP software or even Skype) and then push this out to their huge eBay user base.

They could have called it "eBayTalk". Just a simple link to a bit of software, that automatically puts in your eBay member name; your country; full name etc... Then a link to ultra cheap headsets or USB phones on the eBay site itself. What could have been easier?????

And they could have picked a SIP softphone - so those with existing SIP hardphones/softphones could have just slotted in the registration details??

The only thing that's missing is a mini-program in Windows/MacOS etc... that recognizes that you've clicked on a VoIP link with an embedded VoIP number and then dials in via your "preferred" phone. Just like happens with email.

But their are still a few issues that have to be ironed-out with this.

And then they could have spent the rest of the $2.5billion on marketing!!! Or even free headsets/USB phones.

I don't recall that when ebay got going that they paid billions for QXL, the then leading auction website?  In fact QXL is still going and is now a mere minnow in the auction website world.

Instead ebay started it all up from scratch and added better features and so added massive value from the dint of their own inventive cleverness.

Skype is a stupid product because it is a closed proprietary standard and inflexible.  It is perfectly obvious that easier to use products that access landlines free like voipbuster are more likely to win out in the longer run.

Unless of course we believe that the Sky or Microsoft of the Voip world is going to win out through braun and big muscles over useability and flexibility.

What a depressing prospect.

Except of course that VOIPcheap and VOIPbuster only seem to work once in a blue moon. So while I agree about open protocols being better - only if they work.

wrote on Sep 14^th, 2005 at 9:59am:

Except of course that VOIPcheap and VOIPbuster only seem to work once in a blue moon. So while I agree about open protocols being better - only if they work.

Does Skype work reliably then?

For the people I need to call on the uk switched PSTN network (that is 100% of my calls at present) Skype is always more expensive than a PSTN call with www.call18866.co.uk so I wouldn't consider using Skype to make the call.

The Skype devotees seem to be rather bad at finding the cheapest PSTN phone prices or of course have friends and relatives overseas they talk to regularly PC to PC.

In a domestic environment Voip isn't yet worth the hassle given the very cheap rates available for PSTN landline calls.  Of course in some other countries with expensive domestic PSTN landline prices Skype may be a more significant development.

Don't know if Skype works - like you said it is always more expensive than the 1899 family so I haven't tried it. However other people on this forum do seem to have tried it and appear happy. It may be that because they charge they can ensure that the product actually works unlike Voipcheap/Voipbuster.

Unless anyone cares to defend them?

Skype does work very well I have to say. It's very simple - and it's software jumps across firewalls very well; and this is the main issue with VoIP at the moment until home/office firewalls and the internet infrastructure becomes SIP/VoIP compliant and has QoS.

The issues with breaking out into the PSTN world are mainly to do with the quality (cost) of the telcos that the different VoIP providers (inc Skype) sign-up with. ie: to provide VERY cheap VoIP to PSTN calls they sign-up with dodgy PSTN access is various countries - and these can fail/degrade.

Don't forget that suppliers like 18866 ARE VOIP!! That's how they give the  cheap prices. If you search around in the VoIP world you will find cheaper rates as you are cutting out the PSTN access charges.

wrote on Sep 14^th, 2005 at 1:27pm:

Don't forget that suppliers like 18866 ARE VOIP!! That's how they give the  cheap prices. If you search around in the VoIP world you will find cheaper rates as you are cutting out the PSTN access charges.

You mean www.voicheap.co.uk who have such appalling software that it takes over one's PC and refuses to uninstall properly without numerous anti spyware and registry repair tools.  If one doesn't totally eradicate it from one's pc it then stops one's pc coming back to life from a Hibernate about 1 time in 3.  The rest of the time it makes the restore from Hibernate process take 10 times longer.

So voicheap is marvellous and all that PeDaSp old chap except that it doesn't yet work properly and consistently and generally relies on the other person having their computer turned on which they often don't.

I know that in 8 years time this will all have been overcome but we are currently in the equivalent of Windows 3.11 days so far as the reliability and ease of use of Voip is concerned.

I only spend £3 to £5 per month for my PSTN calls with 18866 so why should I spend £60 to £100 for special voip kit to work with my existing phones that is actually less convenient to use and often doesn't work.

When there is a minimal equipment cost implication and it works properly I will go for it.

18866 is a reliable service that works properly whereas voip at the originating caller end very often doesn't

I agree with almost all of your points hereon NGM. Most large companies now seem to be managed by morons without any formal training or qualifications in Management and as a result they do not understand the real value of anything.

Until there are more telcos actually exploiting the potential of VOIP by interfacing it with unbundled local loop feeds,  wireless or satelite feeds to our premises and a more normal sort of "always-on" tele instrument, the great potential of VOIP will be wasted. At present all it is suitable for is a few quick calls when you happen to be at your PC! Apart from any business making a large volume of particularly international calls the capital cost of investing in any of the PC-less means of accessing VOIP on an always-on basis is just unreal in terms of ROI for a small business or domestic subscriber.

Dorf,

You and I seem to be as of one mind on this matter.

The fact is that if those useless telecoms company loving so and sos over at Ofcom ever forced BT to offer an unbundled broadband only line rental (that is they just commit to maintaining the copper wire if it goes down) on every line in the country (not just for those lucky people on unbundled exchanges) that was a lot lower priced (like half the cost of a PSTN line) then I might consider moving everything to voip and getting myself a geographic voip number.

But as I am forced to pay a large amount for BT line rental and then only half this amount for my actual phone calls annually then all the hassle of voip for a non reliable service that could leave me stranded and reliant on a mobile phone is not worth it.

PeDaSp likes to bang the Voip drum but he has to face the fact that at the moment Voip is like an email system that loses 5 out of every 10 emails that you try to send through.

When Voip is as simple, cheap and reliable as email is then I am sure we might all be interested, except that I would of course be worried about the Voip equivalent of spam email.

Quote:

You mean www.voicheap.co.uk

No I don't. Most softphones are crap - and even worse when they're tied in with a VoIP provider.

Running VoIP from your PC is daft - unless you just want to give VoIP a go for no cost with a softphone like www.xten.com.


Quote:

I only spend £3 to £5 per month for my PSTN calls with 18866 so why should I spend £60 to £100 for special voip kit to work with my existing phones that is actually less convenient to use and often doesn't work.

No point at all - but with respect my posts are not just for you NGM! I was spending around £70 a month on calls as I spend all day calling around the world. No I pay $20 with Broadvoice for unlimited calls.

I have a SNOM IP VoIP phone and wherever I plug it into the net anywhere in the world all my calls come direct to me - with no diversion charges whatsoever. I have UK, USA and Australian geographic numbers - and so folks in the USA for instance who want to call me just pay for a US call.

It works perfectly - and I'm a very demanding user. I don't "loose calls" at all. If it's good enough for Morgan Stanley it's good enough for me!


Quote:

the capital cost of investing in any of the PC-less means of accessing VOIP on an always-on basis is just unreal

You can pick up very good ATA's on eBay for £30 or less. You plug one end into your hub/switch and then plug in your POT phone and your POTS telephone line. Now your POTS phone can handle VoIP totally independently of your PC.

Tricky eh??

I'm amazed that you guys are so hostile to VoIP...

VoIP is a HUGE threat to existing telecoms who are at the bottom of the 0870 scam.

The all calls being directed to me wherever in the world I go for free bit is attractive except that one cannot yet gain cheap mobile access to the internet with your notebook PC when on the move or be guaranteed a fixed line broaband connection to plug into wherever one goes.  One can of course in the very best Grade 1 hotels that Morgan Stanley can no doubt afford to pay for.

My Liechtenstein Riiing mobile seems more practical for the time being.  Voip will be great when there is cheap wirelesss broadband to use with your notebook pc of course.  Also unlike you I regularly seem to spend time in the countryside where such things are very infrequent and costly.

PeDaSp,

I am not hostile to VOIP. I like you believe it has the potential to be a huge threat to the main telcos in their present market place. However, rather like NGM I do feel it is still in the development stage at present, and not fit yet for more general usage.

When there is a proper selection of terminal equipment at a reasonable price to offer a reliable pc-less always-on VIOP telephone equivalent I shall be quick to take it up. It is just that I do not feel that the development is at that stage yet. For instance just as I feel Nuclear Power generation is the hope for the future, I do not believe that current nuclear power stations should yet be on-stream. I believe in reality that they are too dangerous particularly with the dangerous radio-active waste which is generated, with an ESTIMATED half life of about 3000 years! Once proper, safe commercial processes of nuclear fusion are developed then it will be the time for safe and widespread on-stream use. It is similar I feel with VOIP at present (not in respect of it being dangerous of course, but in respect of the current formats not being suitable yet for widespread use).

As an example of my preparedness to change, I am at present seriously considering ditching my BT telephone line altogether and going over to wireless internet, using mobile phones for voice at present. I would then save my monthly BT rental costs.

So please accept, I am not at all hostile towards VOIP.