[quote author=mattydj  link=1126646151/0#0 date=1126646151]All of our work office numbers are being changed from normal 01*** numbers to 0870 140 ****

Thiss means that when my wife rings me from home (we have Telewest Talk Unlimited) we will now not only have to pay extra for the call, but the company makes money out of it!

My number will be 0870 140 5738.  Can anyone come up with the geographical number (currently 01302)[/quote]
Err what???  ::)

Will your existing number not still work? What company is it? Is this a secret? How do you propose we do this when no information is provided?  ::)

Probably by PFM !!  ::)

I don't think Dave was shouting actually ! I think you'd have soon known if he was !!

Anyway, instead of turning it back on us, try looking at the post you made and tell us how the hell we are supposed to find anything with what you (never) gave us ??

Now try giving us something to work with -

• Does your existing number not work still ?
  
• What company is this ?
  
• What is their FULL address ?
  
• Have they recently had a network installation / upgrade (Cisco) ?
  
• Have they just had new phone systems fitted ?
  
• What is your employee number (sorry - only joking ::))
  

Only when we get this type of information can we even start to look in the obvious places for alternatives.

No more hassle now. You've been admonished. Let's forget about that & start afresh.   ;D

wrote on Sep 13^th, 2005 at 9:15pm:

All of our work office numbers are being changed from normal 01*** numbers to 0870 140 **** Thiss means that when my wife rings me from home (we have Telewest Talk Unlimited) we will now not only have to pay extra for the call, but the company makes money out of it! My number will be 0870 140 5738.  Can anyone come up with the geographical number (currently 01302)

Am I missing something here?

You work there.  Your number is going to change to 0870 140 5738.

You (and your wife) know your current (01302) number and, as the least expensive way your firm can make the transition is to simply 'point' the new 0870 number at the old 01302 number without changing the latter, that's the most likely thing they're going to do.

Unless, of course, you now different ............

If you know different, get friendly quickly with your IT people - they will know!

And then tell SayNoTo0870.com please.

I wonder if anyone in your company is issued with business mobile telephones: I bet they won't have to use an 0870 number.

wrote on Sep 14^th, 2005 at 7:58pm:

You (and your wife) know your current (01302) number and, as the least expensive way your firm can make the transition is to simply 'point' the new 0870 number at the old 01302 number without changing the latter, that's the most likely thing they're going to do.

I agree bill. The only reasons that I can think of that the old geographical numbers may be withdrawn are:

• To generate revenue by forcing callers to use the 0870s. That said, there would surely have to be substantial call traffic to each individual number to justify the cost of changing the numbers in the first place. Although, maybe the company providing the 0870s is happy to contribute to the cost of switching. The 0870 140 number is operated by Energis Communications Ltd. Assuming that new geographical numbers are operated by Energis aswell, then they will probably be 01302 60 numbers, as that's the only prefix they have within the 01302 code.
  
• That the company is moving over to voice-over IP (VOIP). Having said that, how come the existing numbers work for a 'transitional' period?

wrote on Sep 14^th, 2005 at 8:14pm:

Its not just me that is concerned, others have also raised the issue, particularly those that have inclusive calling plans on mobiles that exclude 0870 number.

Yes, presumably the company has taken into consideration the fact that it will probably cost it more in [company] mobile phone bills. That said, perhaps the management could do to take a look at this site.  ::)

You must work for EWS then?

I think that this press release tells us what we needed to know; it's IP based.

That means that it uses the internet protocol (IP) to transfer phone calls rather than PSTN (the normal phone network). Most 0870 numbers do go straight to geographical numbers, but they can be pointed at VoIP lines, which means that there is no alternative.

So who's betting that they've not taken into account the costs of calling from company mobiles?  ::)

Gee - I hate it when I'm right, but how's that for a good guess !!

I'm afraid it's going to happen a lot in the future as companies become savvy & upgrade into the 21st century.

Now all we need to do is get a little bit savvier than them and out-IP them !! Working on that one at the moment and will advise when we have more helpful info.

wrote on Sep 14^th, 2005 at 8:14pm:

Well, we have been told (in writing) that the 01302 numbers will cease from 6 weeks of conversion (Monday 12 September)...

Have I read this write that the 01302 will no longer work from 12th September or 6 weeks from the 12th September?

Do you know if the entire firm will be using 0870 or just certain departments like yours?

I noticed your contact us page on your website still mentions geographical numbers except for the press-office.

If your website would have mentioned mostly 0870 numbers then I would have wrote to them and informing them that they have to indicate the price of the call (upto 8ppm from BT landline, more from other networks - in fact upto 40ppm from mobiles).  This would be following ASA/CAP & OfCOM guidelines but because I could only find the press-office using 0870 I'm not going to bother just yet.

We would be grateful if you could post here again when your 0870 are in full force and your website lists all (or mostly) 0870's.

Thanks.

You are definitely moving onto VoIP then if you're not able to dial a number without ensuring the area code is entered.

You will most likely lose your geographicals shortly after everything has been transferred over.

Your website still pretty much gives out geographicals for contact from what I can see (except press-release dept).

0870 is not 'national' rate like they claim and in fact if they claim this is national rate then it is actually misleading under Consumer Protection Act 1987.

See the following websites:-

http://www.cap.org.uk/cap/advice_online/ad_alerts/Advertising+0845+and+087+numbers.htm

here:-

http://www.asa.org.uk/cap/news_events/news/2005/hanging+on+the+telephone+on+and+on+and+on.htm

or here:-

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/media/mofaq/telecoms/0870faq/#content

BT charge 3ppm maximum for calls to geographical numbers (those beginning 01 or 02) whether this is a local call or national call.  A call to an 0870 is charged at upto 8ppm daytime.

Do you have an email address for the person responsible for saying that calls to 0870 are national rate because I could email him/her?  It'll be just to clarify that calls are not national rate and I would provide them with links to the ASA (Advertising Standards Authority)/CAP & OfCOM for them to confirm this.

wrote on Oct 4^th, 2005 at 4:17pm:

I'm not really at liberty to divulge company information (even though its freely available on our web site), the company is very funny about "leaks".  If e-mail addresses were given out they'd want to ask questions.

No problem.  I still can't see on their website anywhere that mentions that an 0870 is national rate so I can't really email and complain and point out the relevant ASA/CAP & OfCOM guidelines.  Obviously I can't mention that a staff member informed me that you (as in EWS) class 0870 as national rate.

wrote on Oct 4^th, 2005 at 7:05am:

The new non-geographic numbering system allows us to make these numbers portable and not tied to a specific location, thereby improving the ability of customers to contact our staff across our organisation.

I rather think that the railway companies had one of the largest networks; and if they could not move calls around than who can?
And it will be interesting, albeit in an academic way, to see whether they really do move people with their number. The more so when people generally change jobs when they move. Or are they now issuing two numbers: a job-related number and a person number?   :)

wrote on Oct 4^th, 2005 at 6:47pm:

Thanks.  As they say, customers have been enquiring so  they are getting calls from the outside world.  Just have to work out the best way of you being a customer!

Have you all been told to give out the 0870 number so if I were to have rung over something (don't know what) then you would politely tell me that your numbers are changing and they are now 0870....?

I emailed the press-office this morning and got the following reply from Graham Meiklejohn:-

Quote:

The EWS number is not a premium rate number.  People calling EWS on an 0870 number will be charged at the standard BT national rate that was in force prior to the introduction of these numbers.  The BT published price list states that 0870 numbers are charged the same as a standard UK national rate call.

I believe this is a cut and paste reply from the internal notice he sent.

I included all relevant links to ASA/CAP & OfCOM, etc and explained that since over a year ago BT removed the difference between local rate and national rate and they now cost 3ppm daytime.  I even mentioned it is misleading under the Consumer Protection Act 1987 but he obviously hasn't bothered to check the links in my email or isn't concerned at all!

mattydj, I've sent you a PM.

Matt

Have a look at this link to the Residential Telephone Tariffs on the Magsys website which gives the BT rates (and all the others) completely, in plain English, including VAT and it doesn't confuse you like the BT site does. I gave up with BT ages ago !! ::)

Notice that the rates for Local, Regional and National calls are the same !! Send an email with this information and the link to your people that have said that the price is the same and let us know what they say. Should be interesting !!  ;D

In reply to my email I received from Graham Meiklejohn (see my previous post), I have sent off another email:-

Quote:

Thank you for your email. Can I ask that you confirm this yourself with BT (verbally) or with the ASA (Advertising Standards Authority/CAP), or even OfCOM? Can I also ask that you provide a link to where you read that an 0870 is charged at national rate and I shall take this up with BT and the trading standards because advertising an 0870 as national rate is misleading under the Section 3 of the Consumer Protection Act 1987? If your new 0870's are, as you state, charged at national rate why is it that the ASA & OfCOM state this is no longer true and have ruled that you can't advertise your numbers as national rate and why doing so is misleading under the Consumer Protection Act 1987? As mentioned in my original email, BT removed the difference between local rate and national rate and therefore the local rate is now only 3ppm.  All relevant links for you to confirm this were provided in my original email. Can I ask that you at least look into this further and in a bit more indepth otherwise continuing to state that an 0870 which is charged at nearly 8ppm is the same as a national call charged at only 3ppm (all this can be confirmed with links provided and with BT) is misleading and Doncaster Trading Standards are the 'home authority' area for your company and I shall ask them to investigate your misleading claim.

At this time and because of his total lack of even looking at the links I provided from ASA/CAP, OfCOM, COI and BT and thereby still maintaining 0870 is national I got a little bit annoyed and sent him the above email which isn't as 'nice' as I would have liked to have been.

I received a reply to this email from Graham:-

Quote:

Thank you for your reply.  We have passed this to BT for their comment, and will reply to you once we receive this. Kind regards

Is it not possible to simpley find the geographical number from the BR network number (or do you not have a BRT phone)
i thought that if say the BR was 0YY XXXX (where YY=TOC/FOC/region) then one could dial in on the BT netwrok by STD code 6YY XXXX.  Other ones I've hear incude STD code YY BR network prefix (eg 2) XXXX

or how about 0207 9285151 which is menat to be the BRT switchboard and then ask for the depot/office (eg Freightliner control Basford Hall) and then ask for you from there?

I put this link on another thread earlier:

Click here

This might be what EWS think says that 0870 are charged at 'normal' rates (it's taken from the terms and  conditions link from Option 1 pricing):

"Calls to non-geographic numbers (e.g. 0845, 0870), the Channel Islands, international numbers, mobiles and to the ordinary geographic numbers of Internet Service Providers (list available on www.bt.com) will be charged at the appropriate BT Together rates."

wrote on Oct 9^th, 2005 at 9:45pm:

Yes we do currently have Railnet phones with the prefix 087 for our office.   These replicate the 01302 7xxxxx BT numbers.    The Railnet (BRT) numbers will also cease after the 6 week deadline so ALL incoming telephone calls from any wource whether "internal BR" or not will all have to dial the 0870 number. For exmple if Freightliner Control wish to speak to EWS control they currently ring 087 xxxxx on the Railnet phones (or 01302 7xxxxx on BT). From 24 October they will have to dial 0870 xxx xxxx from their existing phone system.

Speaking as a Train Driver for another company... if you cannot call your own internal company numbers via Railnet... and you are not allowed to use a mobile phone whilst driving (Obvious reasons) - if you have a problem as a driver, how would you deal with it?

I would not want to pay to call my own control if things go.... ummm.... "wrong"