Would I be able to add my Daughters Derby University room phone to my 1899 bill? its 0870 0407*** has free internal calls apparently and charges at BT national rate to ring out. Of course it's more expensive for me to ring in. Would it be easy to do this as it's an 0870 number and from the University halls? I just didn't want to cause any problems as I think she might have to give her debit card details to ring out and I'm not sure if she could use the pre dial on that phone. What do you think?

The 0870 number you call, is not her real number.  There is a geo number that it sits on top of, and it is that number that would get the phone bill, and would appear on any CLI for outgoing calls.  Naturally, I would imagine that the number would be witheld.

Also, as it's part of a switchboard, it would be an internal line, and probably not easy to set up.

See my response here.

Never register a shared line of any type to an Indirect Access code like this (eg 1899).   Once it's registered all calls from the line (via that access code) will be billed to whoever registered.
The registered number is often likely to be a common number for a group of lines  and calls from any line in the group (eg. anywhere in the Halls) may also be billed to whoever registered.
Doing so might also be prohibited by the University, in the terms on which it provides the telephony service, if that's the only way it's got to avoid ending up with the bill itself.

wrote on Oct 14^th, 2005 at 6:12pm:

Never register a shared line of any type to a Carrier Pre Select (CPS) code like this (eg 1899).

Hint: 1899 isn't a CPS service - it works by use of a prefix (1899) ;D.

Well worth looking at a VOIP solution.  All students have a network connection in their room these days and most and run a PC during waking hours.  Skype would be the simplest to setup (you will need it at your end too)  but there are other options possible.

No call charges at all, just a cheap headset to buy if you haven't got one already.

The IT department of the Uni will give you advice on other options such as getting an FWD or VOIPUSER number and running Xlite or a similar softphone. (Free download & free calls between users in the same system).

When you say no call charges on Skype that is of course to other Skype users,as you mentioned.

Have you seen what they charge to call  NGN and Uk Mobile Numbers?
0870 17p ,Mobiles 24p at all times.24/7.

Google Chat if you both get a couple of  free G-Mail accounts is worth considerig.

wrote on Oct 14^th, 2005 at 8:25pm:

Hint: 1899 isn't a CPS service - it works by use of a prefix (1899) ;D.

Well, well. Right enough. So it isn't.    Thanks bigjohn. That'll teach me to show off my misunderstanding of Telecom Industry terminology.  (I wonder why 1899 don't offer the 'convenience' of having the local exchange dial it for you ? )  Let me have another go at getting it right.

wrote on Oct 15^th, 2005 at 4:36pm:

Well, well. Right enough. So it isn't.    That'll teach me to show of my misunderstanding of Telecom Industry terminology.  (I wonder why 1899 don't offer the 'convenience' of having the local exchange dial it for you ? )  Let me have another go at getting it right.

It's because they have to pay a large amount of money for the benefit of CPS on their service and then a couple of quid for each CPS customer who signs up.  For a company like 1899, this wouldn't be worth it and if they did go for CPS, their low call costs would most probably disappear as they would take forever to recover the costs of the CPS setup.

wrote on Oct 15^th, 2005 at 4:43pm:

It's because they have to pay a large amount of money for the benefit of CPS on their service and then a couple of quid for each CPS customer who signs up.  For a company like 1899, this wouldn't be worth it and if they did go for CPS, their low call costs would most probably disappear as they would take forever to recover the costs of the CPS setup.

That's perhaps Just as well.
The whole CPS thing (when done automatically at the exchange - instead of dialling the code yourself) is just another area for taking advantage of a bamboozled joe public.
Perhaps I'll sign up with 1899 then, confident that they aren't going to surreptitiously(sp.) pinch all my calls

wrote on Oct 15^th, 2005 at 4:57pm:

That's perhaps Just as well. The whole CPS thing (when done automatically at the exchange - instead of dialling the code yourself) is just another area for taking advantage of a bamboozled joe public. Perhaps I'll sign up with 1899 then, confident that they aren't going to surreptitiously(sp.) pinch all my calls

It isn't done in a malicious way, unless we're talking about 'slamming' which is when one company suddenly takes over the CPS for your line.  This happened to me and I flatly refused to pay for any of the call charges.  They eventually wrote-off the final bill when I threatened OfCOM and reiterated that I would not be paying a penny.  If they do pinch your calls, then you shouldn't pay for them.  That's what I've done both times and it worked.  

wrote on Oct 15^th, 2005 at 4:57pm:

That's perhaps Just as well. The whole CPS thing (when done automatically at the exchange - instead of dialling the code yourself) is just another area for taking advantage of a bamboozled joe public. Perhaps I'll sign up with 1899 then, confident that they aren't going to surreptitiously(sp.) pinch all my calls

Also for whatever reasons 1899 are more expensive than BT for 0870 and 0845 so you wouldn't want your calls to be routed with them when calling those numbers.  But shysters like the Post Office and TalkTalk still carry these calls due to CPS being in place and then charge more for the privilege than BT.  You can get round this on a CPS line by dialling 1280 to force calls to route with BT but most "Joe Blow" customers aren't aware of any of this.

Strange thing about 1899 is that sister Finarea companies like 18185 and dialaround carry calls to 0870 cheaper than BT.  I can only assume this doesn't happen on 1899 in the hope that customers forget and so they get back some of their cheap fixed 3p calls to 01 and 02 numbers that way?

[glb]Well worth looking at a VOIP solution.  All students have a network connection in their room these days and most and run a PC during waking hours.  Skype would be the simplest to setup (you will need it at your end too)  but there are other options possible.  [/glb]
My son is at Loughborough Uni, and they banned Skype last year.  Whether that ban has been lifted or not, I don't know, but as he is on broadband, as is my daughter at Leicester Uni, we use MSN Messenger which works very well.

wrote on Oct 17^th, 2005 at 9:54am:

My son is at Loughborough Uni, and they banned Skype last year.  Whether that ban has been lifted or not, I don't know, but as he is on broadband, as is my daughter at Leicester Uni, we use MSN Messenger which works very well.

These university phone ripoff merchants will get their come uppance once WiMax outside the university's control starts to become available in a year or so's time.  Then your son will be able to use Voip and the internet without any interference from these restrictive agreements.

wrote on Oct 17^th, 2005 at 10:02am:

These university phone ripoff merchants will get their come uppance .

Does anyone know who is going around and selling Universities this concept?  Surely it must be a rip off initiative from only one or two companies?  Presumably the same people who sign up Hospitals?  Do they give the Uni back a cut of the excessive profits?  Who are these guys?

wrote on Oct 17^th, 2005 at 11:08am:

Does anyone know who is going around and selling Universities this concept?  Surely it must be a rip off initiative from only one or two companies?  Presumably the same people who sign up Hospitals?  Do they give the Uni back a cut of the excessive profits?  Who are these guys?

You are correct that the basis of the scam is precisely the same as Patientline i.e. the university claims it can't afford to install wireless internet and phone systems to the rooms itself and so Mr Private Enterprise says he will put in a system for free so long as the students have an 0870 number (which he describes to the gullible university as BT National Rate) for calling in and can only call out using a calling card at his special high rates.

There seem to be a number of different companies operating in this area.  The only one I have picked up on others talking about here is some outfit called DognBone -

http://www.dognbonezone.co.uk

However I believe many larger companies are also in on the scam as just a nice little earner.

These are DognBones standard rates for uk calls for students.  Perhaps not as bad for geos as you might have thought but clearly expensive off peak and at the weekend and also for calling in on an 0870 number of course

Impressively low rates for Vodafone (better than landline in some cases) but nasty that 0800 calls are more expensive that uk geo numbers.

UK Local calls
£0.04
£0.04
£0.03
UK National Calls
£0.05
£0.04
£0.03
UK Free Call
£0.05
£0.05
£0.05
UK Mobile fm1 [o2]
£0.25
£0.15
£0.15
UK Mobile fm2 [Other]
£0.25
£0.15
£0.15
UK Mobile fm3 [T-Mobile]
£0.25
£0.15
£0.15
UK Mobile fm4 [Orange]
£0.25
£0.15
£0.15
UK Mobile fm5 [Vodafone]
£0.07
£0.07
£0.07
UK Non-Geo Local (ONLY 0845)
£0.10
£0.10
£0.10
UK Non-Geo National (ONLY 0870)
£0.13
£0.10
£0.10

wrote on Oct 17^th, 2005 at 9:54am:

My son is at Loughborough Uni, and they banned Skype last year.

Paula, are you aware we have an alternative for Loughborough? See this  thread.  ;)

OK. From a little more research it seems that these guys are the main contenders for the  'rip off merchant of the year' award 2005.

www.keycom.co.uk

They control telecoms in all these Uni's

Aston University, Coventry University, Cranfield University, Exeter University, Greenwich University, Hertfordshire University, Keele University, University of London, London Institute, Loughborough University, University of North London, Royal College of Music, Roehampton University, Russell Sq Nottingham, University of Salford, Shaftesbury Housing, St Mary's, Stafford University, Stoke, Sussex University, University College London, Unite - Aberdeen (King Street Exchange), Unite - Aberdeen (Meal Market Exchange), Unite - Aberdeen (Old Fire tation), Unite - Birmingham (Londonderry Hs), Unite - Bristol (Hotwells House), Unite - Cardiff (Evelian Court), Unite - Coventry (Paradise Street), Unite - Edinburgh (James Craig Court), Unite - Exeter (NothenHay House), Unite - Glasgow (Buchanan View), Unite - Glasgow (Cooper place), Unite - Huddersfield (Firth Point), Unite - Huddersfield (Snow Island), Unite - Leeds (James Bailie Park), Unite - Leicester (Newarke Point), Unite - Leicester (St Martin's House), Unite - Liverpool (Myrtle Court), Unite - Liverpool (Student Village), Unite - London (Imperial Wharf), Unite - Loughborough (Harry French Court), Unite - Manchester (Kincardine Court), Unite - Manchester (New Medlock), Unite - Manchester (Park View), Unite - Newcastle (Cam Court), Unite - Newcastle (Magnet Court), Unite - Nottingham (St Peters Court), Unite - Plymouth (Central Point), Unite - Plymouth (St Teresa House), Unite - Preston (foundry Court), Unite - Preston (Trinity village), Unite - Sheffield (Devonshire Court), Unite - Sheffield (Exchange), Unite - Sheffield (LeadMill Point), Unite - Southampton (Orion Point), Unite - Stoke (Hanley Park)

I can see a published alternative geo number for one location, can we assume that every client has a hidden geo number?  Presumably outbound is via some kind of CPS or CFS system that ties them to their billing system with other options including breakout being blocked?  Isn't it tought enough being a student without having to put up with this?  Can we at least help out by finding some inbound alternatives?

wrote on Oct 17^th, 2005 at 2:18pm:

I can see a published alternative geo number for one location, can we assume that every client has a hidden geo number?  ....

I don't know, but I'm trying to see if there's a pattern between universities. Most specifically, (going by the ones we've found) if there's any clues as to which telecom provider(s) the geographical numbers might be allocated to.

[glb]My son is at Loughborough Uni, and they banned Skype last year. [/glb]

Thanks Dave, and yes, I do have his geographical number, but it is easier to chat to both kids at the same time!  My daughter tells me that at Leicester Uni, calls from her room phone cost 8p per minute!!!!  This is since they installed broadband in the Halls - so, she gives me a missed call from her mobile to mine, and I call her back on 18185.  What a circus, trying to remember which prefix to call!

[quote I call her back on 18185./quote]

Do you call her back on 0870 at any time of the day on 18185.What mobile networks are you and the family on?

wrote on Oct 18^th, 2005 at 2:51am:

[glb]My son is at Loughborough Uni, and they banned Skype last year. [/glb] This is since they installed broadband in the Halls - so, she gives me a missed call from her mobile to mine, and I call her back on 18185.  What a circus, trying to remember which prefix to call!

You do realise that BT is cheapest for 0870 at the weekend at 1.5p per minute I assume?  Its only in the weekday daytime that 18185 has a big advantage.  Even in the weekday evenings its only on a call of about 8 minutes plus that 18185 will be any cheaper than BT.

gray wrote on Oct 15^th, 2005 at 10:40am:

Well worth looking at a VOIP solution.  All students have a network connection in their room these days and most and run a PC during waking hours.  Skype would be the simplest to setup (you will need it at your end too)  but there are other options possible. No call charges at all, just a cheap headset to buy if you haven't got one already. The IT department of the Uni will give you advice on other options such as getting an FWD or VOIPUSER number and running Xlite or a similar softphone. (Free download & free calls between users in the same system).

Thats the funniest thing i've ever read, i'm at bournemouth, the idea of getting any advice on VoIP from them is silly. We have a Cisco IP phone system in our rooms which also links to the uni phone system (handy to calling, er, the IT Helpdesk, admin departments, the student union etc) and they give us 01201 210xxx numbers which is nice. They also block everything except skype, only allow 0800 (NOT 0808 or 0500 or 1xxxx), don't allow FTP, don't allow VPN etc... so the idea of getting anything but skype to work is obsurd, and i'm probably quite lucky. I just wish they'd realise that SIP is better than skype and 0808 is also freephone then i'd be laughing (although they probably don't actually LIKE us using skype).

It's interesting as the halls i'm in are a UNITE property, but the university provide the phone and internet themselves (does help having a Uni owned halls opposite, new uni office next door and opposite, and lots of uni offices and other buildings close by I suppose - probably made more sense to add us in to the same network). The DDI's are provided by a mixture of NTL, BT and C&W, however they are now going for the 01202 9xxxxx range which is NTL (i'm assuming our DDI's are as well)....

just in case anyone is choosing a University based on the phone service, there are better things to worry about i'm sure.