Dear All,

Hope this is okay to start another thread on this subject.  The previous thread... http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?board=site;action=display;num=1108310388
... became difficult to follow and seemed to be going off topic too!

The original thread goes back to the spring of this year so I wondered what is the latest on updating this site.

I've added my comments below which re-iterate some of the points made above.

Cheers
Garry

* more integrated

For me the site feels a bit disjointed and there should be more consistency between screens, perhaps by keeping the top bar more standardised.  I think there should be a log-in window included in this top bar regardless of where you are. This hopefully would encourage more people to log in and participate.

* information centre

This, I feel, is wasted at the bottom of the forum home page.  I didn't even realise it existed for a few months!!!  This should be positioned in a standardised top bar (e.g the top left-hand corner by user-id) and should be on ALL pages of this site.  Knowing that so many guests are using the site and such and such member is logged on gives it a greater sense of being a community.

* forums

I think the presentation of the forum is better than many other forums (alernate colours for each post, clear means of quoting, various ways of highlighting text) but there's still aspects that could be improved.

View the 10 most recent posts is a very useful facility but again I feel this is wasted tucked away in the information centre.  It would be helpful if you could select his option for whichever section you're in (e.g Chat, Number Requests, Site Related etc) and get the last 10 posts within Chat, for example.

It would be good if users could list threads in several different ways (and not just accept the default date order of last reply) perhaps by number of views, number of replies etc etc.

Having a separate forum section for campaign actions sounds a really good idea and should include a diy took-kit (example lettes and emails) for challenging companies, complaining to ofcom amongst others etc

Likewise (as already mentioned) a separate section for a history of scams is another good idea

* instant messaging

Again, I didn't know this existed until recently.  Needs better highlighting (larger text, brighter colours) and perhaps should re-label this as private message

* geographic alternatives numbers

(as already mentioned) one integrated list of numbers, with unverified coloured differently sounds an excellent idea

Can't remember if this has been mentioned before, but how about a section for talking about regulation of 08x and the telephone industry in general. With the turnover of topics in the Chat section which go back a few days on the first page, I think that it's time to break up the discussion topics.

[edit]
gdh82 wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2005 at 10:26am:

Yeah, I agree that the Geographical Numbers Chat is too broad a section and could be broken down into further sections...my and other suggestions so far might be along the lines . . . . * On-Going Action and Campaigns - What You Can Do To Challenge 0870 * Regulation Of The 0870 Industry - Everything You Wanted To Know * Previous 0870 Actions and Activities Including History of The Worst Scams Ever! Its a difficult one because if there's too many sections then debates can become isolated but if the section is too broad then threads get lost in the quantity of other conversations.   What do others think?

[/edit]

What about a mailing list on this site for visitors to put there email addresses onto? They wouldn't need to join and it would be as simple as entering an email address.

[edit]
gdh82 wrote on Nov 8^th, 2005 at 3:22pm:

I agree having a regular newletter (quarterly? or focused on specific events like consultations?) is a good idea and would provide a means of updating people on further developments as well as on the latest activities/campaigns where partcipation may be sought. I also suggest improving the ability to "List the last 10 posts to the forum".  Currently this is tucked away in the Information Centre on the Forum Index.  I'd strongly suggest having this Information Centre on the top (near the SayNoTo0870 logo?) of every forum screen.  It would show who is logged in, increasing the sense of a community.  It would also allow the user to select either the last 10, 20, 50, or 100 hundred posts.  This would make the forum considerably more accessible and enables the user to bring themselves up-to-date on the relevant threads with much greater ease.

[/edit]

[edit]
mc661 wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2006 at 1:49pm:

I would agree to the Newsletter/Mailing list as long as THERES NO ADVERTS OR 'FREE' MOBILE PHONE LINKS IN IT. Otherwise it would be reported to spamcop, and prob auto blocked by my mail server anyway.

[/edit]

Or perhaps a "latest news" flag, because we have (OK, had until 17.00 today) five consultations running: 070, both the 084/087 ones, 101/116 and Number Portability. Now I worry that I have missed some.

To avoid having to search both the database and forums (which may confuse people), an entry could be put in the database for each company with a thread which doesn't have a working/confirmed geographical number. The entry could link to the thread.

OK, so it's a big job, but popular requests would be made simpler, such as Sky and Dell.

I read an article recently which was American based but also had info for the UK where they described the options to bypass the automated voice menus and get to talk to a human quickly, to phone orange they ask you to enter your phone number and then you wait to speak to an (un)advisor, just enter your number 3 times incorrectly and you will be put straight through.
I have forgotten where I read the article but could this not be incorporated on this site?

Thanks

Hi, I've been using this site for a while.  From time to time a recommend Geographical Number gets to a message "This number has been changed - please dial 0870....."

I thought there used to be a way of reporting incorrect numbers to they can be removed (after verification perhaps) but I searched the forum without luck.

Can there be a simple mechnism  - maybe it could be automated with a button - "This number is no longer working" and, if a given number of registered, different, people click on it, the number can be automatically removed.  Might also need an internal flag "never remove this number" to allow for companies who might try to use this as a way to get their listing removed.

Nick

[edit]
trevord wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2006 at 11:46pm:

A few of us discussed this earlier today in the thread, How long to verify a number. You might like to look at the discussion there.

[/edit]

I find this site very useful and recommend to my customers

However I have tried an easy way to copy & paste the complete table of details into a Word document, but seems impossible (so manually write each down and do my own table)

I could do a print page, but then uses more memory, slower to view & shows all the adverts on the sides, which is annoying

I have a file called phone contacts, then list by name of company, so that I do not have to go online to look each time & can be printed off

Any ideas?

Andrew

[edit]
Dave wrote on Feb 14^th, 2006 at 9:07pm:

See this thread which links to another couple of other threads on the same topic.

[/edit]

I have been thinking about this quite a lot.   The site is fantastic and there is so much information included and many of the members are very knowledgeable.   I have sometimes found it difficult to find all the information/arguments I need when making a complaint about NGNs, sometimes I have read it and lost it, others I don't find it until later.   Would it be possible for a member/members to put together a relatively short document explaining 087x/084x numbers, how they work and why they are evil.  This could then be sent to organisations where it is obvious the people in charge of phone systems don't understand, and enable members of the forum to argue the case concisely and consistently.  It would also be available to those who wish to oppose the move to NGNs in their organisation.   For example, the local council where my husband works is moving towards some kind of customer centre, I have been nagging him about checking they will stay with a geographical number but it would be so much easier if he had a document, say 2 sides A4 max, which he could distribute giving the arguments again NGNs and their implications for customers.  

I know it would mean some work and would need updating regularly but I think it would help and increase the number of forum members who might find it easier to object and give them more confidence to do so hence increasing the numbers involved in the war on NGNs.   I know I have struggled with some of the technical aspects in particular and marshalling all the arguments in one coherent document would be an enormous help.   If those using NGNs can use formula letters, why shouldn't we use a formula document giving the reasons to oppose their use?   Could then be cirulated eg to all MPs etc.  (I appreciate this may have been tried in the past but I am a fairly new member)

What do others think?

[edit]
trevord wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2006 at 9:36pm:

Barbara, I know it won't fully answer your question / proposal, but there is some explanation on this site, including pages on Details of these abuses and How scam works and History. There are also some comments / explanations on this site and this one. Hope these are of some help.

[/edit]

I'd like to suggest the idea of highlighting new replies as is very usefully done on this site here: http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/

The software gives a count of new replies since you last logged in, and this applies to both forums as a whole and to each thread within a forum.  This instantly directs you to the latest and busiest discussions so keeping you up-to-date and better able to contribute.

e.g logging into this forum it would look like:

Topic                                                         Started By   Replies   Views   Last

How Can We Improve SayNoTo0870            gdh82         15 (1)    823     gdh82 26/03


By contrast the SayNoTo0870 merely gives the overall totals.  I imagine either the forum software does this or not, but if this feature could be incorporated, it would be a considerable improvement in my opinion.

This feature is also duplicated on a user's home page on http://www.adslguide.org.uk/ where you can 'bookmark' your favourite threads (which could be across several forums).  This again enables the user to be quickly updated on both the size and time of any further discussion.

Have you considered offering a download of the full database? As a text file, or spreadsheet, for example. I'd imagine it is pretty small. Then I could, for example, carry it on my PDA, which would be very useful.

[edit]Sorry KM but we have covered this request in the past.

There are already unscrupulous persons selling partial copies of appropriated data from the database (mostly word for word) through eBay, though it's not upto date. It was possible, until recently, to manipulate the data from the Aplhabetical listings to do this, but we have now stopped this feature to improve security of the data.

So I'm sorry to say that it won't be possible to offer a download of the database, full or otherwise. WYSIWYG !!  :-/

DaveM[/edit]

[edit]
evilbunny wrote on Oct 8^th, 2006 at 4:56pm:

Depends if you can handle regular expressions or need to expand ranges of numbers out... I was able to parse about 7200 rows, however if you expand this info out you end up with well over 100,000 numbers...

[/edit]

[edit]
trubster wrote on Dec 9^th, 2006 at 8:08pm:

Why not make all numbers as "Contact Cards' so they can be put onto a pda/smartphone through outlook/activesync... It would be so much easier and you could even put them in 'Categories' so they can be filtered from personal entries on the phone book... Just a thought

[/edit]

This site rightly raises awareness of the numerous Ofcom consultations but I'd suggest that it could do more with the responses, which in my opinion are potentially a valuable resource which is going to waste.

Now I realise that as part of a consultation discussion thread there is always a link to Ofcom's website where responses are posted.  This is only so much help to the user and the number of responses and lack of structure of the Ofcom website can be daunting.

I'm suggesting making access to consultation responses easier and more user-friendly.  Perhaps we could have a locked thread per consultation (initially sticky allowing others time to read it) where the contents of selected responses are cut and paste.  Certain responses, including those from forum members, highlight the key concerns shared by many involved in this website.

Doing this would not only raise awareness of our shared concerns, it might encourage others to respond to future consultations or even motivate others to write/email and complain about the use of 0870 etc.

I wouldn't want this to be a too onerous a task so of course not every response would have to be included, perhaps a dozen or so, giving a balance of views.  Perhaps after a month or so, and the thread is no longer sticky, the contents of the thread could be further utilised by including a link to it from the very useful and very comprehensive Useful Information and Hot Topics thread.

What do others think?


Edited by DaveM - to improve readability -

At present to move from one forum to another (eg chat to requests) I have to go via the forum home page.

I know its only one extra click but could you add links so that you can instantly skip from one forum to another ?

So instead of having this link on the site related forum:

SAYNOTO0870.COM » General » Site Related

The following link could be duplicated across all forums:

General » Site Related » Geographical Requests » Geographical Numbers Chat » Cheap Call Providers » Freedom Of Information Responses » Bargains, Freebies and Discounts [Announcements]

(or an abbreviated version)

In my opinion this would aid navigation and bring all of the forums 'closer together' whereas right now they feel too separated...

- Edited by DaveM - to better amplify suggestion -

[edit]In case you hadn't noticed there is a Drop Down box at the bottom of the page to assist in Forum navigation as you suggest, although I would also find it handy to have one at the top of the page.

I amended your post above to show the navigation links & amplify your suggestion better.

I have sent a PM to Daniel to request some consideration of this, either your idea (abbreviated) or putting another Drop Down box at the top of the page as well.

DaveM[/edit]

Hi, I'm new to the site, what a cool site!  :)  I'm sorry if I'm repeating what's already been said, but the one thing for me that would improve the site is on the "search to find an alternative number" page (http://www.saynoto0870.com/search.php), when searching for a number that is not in the database, I wish on finding that result it would tell you and take you back to the original site search screen.

What I'd prefer it didn't do is automatically take you to a google search box instead. I know how to google search (or do the google searches from your site make you money to help keep the site going?) I do most of my typing (to save my hands) with keyboard commands, and because the google search box looks so similar to the search box on the previous page, I always mistake it for being the same and try and do another search and end up with google search results. (Uh... click the 'back' button, re-click in box...).  I'd love it to return to the original search page, and offer elsewhere on the "no results" page a way of google search, but not have that as automatic box the cursor moves to.  

Hope that helps improve the site...and thanks for all the hard work! (I've added quite a few numbers myself, particularly ones that you can't even find in directories - lots of time on phone and crafty persuasion)  ;)


[edit]Looking at this, it is simple enough to press the Back button to return to the main search page, so I'm sorry to say that it's unlikely to be classed as a priority.

Thanks for the help adding numbers, always appreciated. I hope that the revised search helps you to ensure they haven't already been added by now showing the Unverified listings as well.

DaveM[/edit]

And another good one...

it would be great to have a box next to each phone number entry, that allows you to either suggest an update to the entry if there is new information, or log a problem with the entry if there is one.  With global entries (that relate to a number of numbers), it would be good to have a click box where the exceptions are listed.

Currently there seems to be no way to easily change an entry (even one that I have made) once it has been put on the site?

[edit]We are looking at ways to report number problems at the moment & hope to have it set up soon

DaveM[/edit]

A WAP version of the site would be great for 0870zapping on the go!
The site as it is is too complex for most phones.

[edit]
evilbunny wrote on Oct 8^th, 2006 at 2:57pm:

I might be able to help there, I've been building up a database of Australian 13 numbers (and their geographical equivilent), and one of the requests was for a search which is now in place for Australian numbers. I've also completed a mostly complete import of the numbers on this website in a table and it's trivial to make mobile xhtml pages and link to this table, although the reason I've done all this work was to transparently make calls with fixed phone systems since 13 numbers are more expensive in terms of VoIP calls then geographical numbers. I don't have GPRS access where I am atm (long story, but lack of phone access isn't always a bad thing at times :) so I wasn't able to test it in a phone, but it seems to work in a browser... http://wap.e164.org

[/edit]

How about a place for free call back services e.g. http://www.clicktocall.co.uk/main.htm

To use them you just fill in the form at Portman Building Society and they will call you back whenever you choose.

- Edited by DaveM - PBS link fixed -

[edit]Any Free Callback links that are not already included for a company, please feel free to add them as you would a normal number, putting the numbers we already have in the database (or new ones), adding the Callback link in the Other Info. If you add that the numbers are already in the database but you're adding the Callback link, one of us will transfer it to the verified entry once we verify the link as OK.

DaveM[/edit]

It would be nice to have some feedback from admin on the feedback in this thread  ;)

[edit]We are looking at this now as it seems to have been ignored till now owing to more pressing work. We hope to have it resolved soon by adding comments (such as this) to explain or update the post.

DaveM[/edit]

It might be an idea to add a function where you can comment on a listing on the site.  I had occasion to call First Great Western trains this morning.  So I took the 0845 number from their site and came here and used it to look up a geographical number.  When I rang the geographical number, however, I spoke to a person who said that to get my query resolved I would need to ring the 0845 number!  It would be useful to have somewhere to note this information for future site users.

[edit]We are looking at ways to report number problems at the moment & hope to have it set up soon

DaveM[/edit]

PLEASE, may we have back on the search facility the alphabet choice? I found that helpful. THANKS, LINDA

[edit]Sorry Linda

We've removed these infrequently used search options to increase security & improve the functionality.
(See the explanation by bbb_uk below)

DaveM[/edit]

[edit]
bbb_uk wrote on Dec 10^th, 2006 at 7:59pm:

Hi Linda This was removed for a few reasons:- Only about 5% of searches were by the alphabet list. It wasn't always bringing up the entry you want.  For example, searching for "Inland Revenue" would not have brought up an entry via the alphabet because as it's under the (newer) proper name of HM Revenue & Customs but it has "Inland Revenue" in brackets so doing a company search for "HM", "Customs", "Revenue" or "Inland Revenue" would bring up all entries for "HM Revenue & Customs (Inland Revenue)" To be honest, we generally recommend searching by company name as that generally brings up the company concerned and any company that may be related to it or even nearby matches.

[/edit]
[edit]
auntieboo wrote on Nov 4^th, 2007 at 11:02am:

When I first visited this site, the alphabet was displayed at the top of the page. Hence, I could look at all the "A" companies, make a note of the ones I used and put them in my phone book. I can't find the alphabet "guide"....where is it? Help! auntie boo

[/edit]
[edit]It was removed a long time since. You can search by company name or number.

You only need put in a few letters and it will list results in alphabetical order.

For example, if you wanted Vodafone you could enter the word as a whole or any few letters like voda. Then scroll down to the entries you want.

Dave[/edit]
[edit]
sleepyangel wrote on Jul 9^th, 2008 at 7:35pm:

:) Would I be jumping in at the deep end if I asked why the site changed from the 'letter search' it USED to have? I found that way far easier to use than the present way, Im afraid. And it meant that when I came in, I could look for ALL the 'G' names I needed perhaps, while I was in getting one! Just a thought  ;D

[/edit]
[edit]Please read through previous entries for additional comments on this.

DaveM[/edit]

Why have you changed the the format for seeking alternative numbers. I was quite shocked to find that I only had the option of putting in the Company name or the NG number. I found it much better when you had the lists as well as I usually find it convenient to use your site as a phone directory and one doesn't always have the exact name of the company. For instance when I put in T mobile You came up with a Tyre company; I then went to look for the alphabetical list of companies and it just wasn''t there. I hope this is just a temporary phenomenon.

[edit]Please see the replies to the query above and Dave's comments below.

DaveM[/edit]

[edit]
Dave wrote on Jan 1^st, 2007 at 2:51pm:

Which method did you prefer? The search methods that have been removed are the category search and search by first letter? I see what you mean; entering the words "T Mobile" comes up with hits for Event Mobile Tyres. It's the way that the search engine works. Numbers for the mobile operator are entered as T-Mobile; NOTE the dash. The search engine finds any entries that have that combination of letters (or string) in the company name or Other Info field. So searching "T Mobile" picks up Event Mobile Tyres because those letters (including space) appear in the company's name: Event Mobile Tyres So entering as little as possible is the thing to do. For example, in this case you could enter "Mobile" because what you are searching for contains this term. It does, however, bring up loads of other results as well, although you can look down alphabetically.

[/edit]

[edit]
reggie wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2007 at 2:08pm:

I liked both the category and alphabetical method and hope they are not gone forever. If only one is to be restored then I'll go for alpabetical; some things don't fit neatly into categories and some companies are multifaceted these days. Best wishes for 2007 and keep up the good work.

[/edit]

- Edited by DaveM - Title amended -

Been aware of this site for a few months now, and it has proved very useful as I have completely free anytime land-line calls, but all 08 numbers are charged at varying extortionate rates.

I was however moved to register today, as I don't know if I'm missing something here or if it's been mentioned before, but it's annoying that I can't paste data into the search fields. This is particularly annoying on the number field, as when using the contact pages for companies or institutions, they invariably give their '08' number which makes sense to copy then paste in your search field. Instead, it's very tiresome to have to try to switch screens back and forth (which I noticed today I couldn't do, and needed to remember the number...a real pain).

Every time I've used this site I've attempted my preferred search method, and it's increasingly annoyed me every time I can't. Can it be solved? Or is it in place as some kind of copyright or anti-abuse measure?

Keep up the good work...and here's hoping you can make this facet of functionality even better.

[edit]There are ways & means of doing this and if you are an experienced Windows user, you will already know them. Suffice to say, the standard copy/paste dialog from the right mouse button is disabled on the site.

See the previous posts in this forum, Right Click Disabled and Cut and Paste which will explain the problem resolution more fully.

DaveM[/edit]

[edit]
allegro wrote on Jan 4^th, 2007 at 6:36pm:

Assuming you are using windows then CTRL-V works fine. I can't speak for Mac and Linux users.

[/edit]

[edit]
studs wrote on Jan 4^th, 2007 at 6:59pm:

Thanks for the work around; must say after trying many of the usual work around tricks with no success I assumed kb shortcuts wouldn't work either. Perhaps the reason the usual ways won't work is probably down to all the extra security rubbish they keep throwing at IE 7 to 'help us'...probably see the kb shortcut not work before too long. Time I weened myself off IE and used FireFox more I think... Still think it's a right hassle disabling the right click for no good reason though.

[/edit]

Hiya,

My first post, I just want to say first of all thank you for an excellent service.

Sorry for the long post, just read the bit in blue if it's too much to read.

I have searched, but not found a similar reply (apologies if I'm saying something which has already been said) anywhere relating to the verification (and possiibly) removal of non-geographic numbers.

Many sites incorporate a "rating" on articles/comments which allows people to rate whether they think somethink is good/bad.  I am thinking here specifically of the comments rating system found at spikedhumor.com, which allows visitors to give comments a thumbs up/thumbs down vote.  All comments display the number of good/bad votes they have received - and comments with a large number of thumbs down are automatically hidden (or buried) from visitors (they can choose to unhide the comment if they want to).

Essentially my idea is this: I think it would be fantastic if the numbers database could incorporate a voting system for every entry - this would essentially mean the whole idea of verified and unverified can take a different angle - would it still need to be done by a handful of admins, when a vistor base (in their thousands) can vote if an entry is good/bad on their own?

I have lots of ideas about this.  I may as well continue here... don't bother reading further if you don't want to hear my ideas, the bit in blue above is the core point I wanted to make.

I think the idea of voting should be considered in depth.  As the database is open to all (i.e. no registration required - this is a big positive for the site), Everyone should be able to vote.  The main problem the database has is that once something is verified it is not a lifetime verification, but only for that day.  As such each vote should have a time stamp associated with it (invisible to the visitor), which essentially means that older votes automatically lose their weighting with time, and recent votes have a bigger impact on the rating of an entry.

Voting (new word for verifying entries) can be encouraged by registered users by logging the number of votes they have made over a period (month, quarter, year), and having a "hall of fame" - recognising the contributions of registered users, and adding a competitive element which again promotes more "voting".  Maybe a prize every year or month for those in the top 10 or top 3?  Registered users votes (with over 100 votes (for example)) should carry a greater weighting when they vote.

Also thought would need to go into how often someone can vote on something.  Maybe at most once per week/fortnight for the same entry.

Like I said there are lots that can be done, I've only listed a little of my thoughts, but I imagine a redesign of the database would need to take place - a lot of work - but worth it in the end I think.

-mi§tery-



[edit]
mi5tery wrote on Jan 5^th, 2007 at 3:22pm:

Essentially my idea is this: I think it would be fantastic if the numbers database could incorporate a voting system for every entry - this would essentially mean the whole idea of verified and unverified can take a different angle - would it still need to be done by a handful of admins, when a vistor base (in their thousands) can vote if an entry is good/bad on their own?

This was already discussed a few times before and I mentioned it here.  Basically, it was hoped that a rating system could be incorporated and was tested by us but unfortunately it was found to be unreliable and contained bugs.  This 'rating' feature was then put on hold whilst we concentrated on merging the two databases as it was felt this was more important since before then you had to do two different searches.

bbb_uk[/edit]

wacs wrote on Sep 12^th, 2006 at 11:07pm:

It would be nice to have some feedback from admin on the feedback in this thread  ;) [edit]We are looking at this now as it seems to have been ignored till now owing to more pressing work. We hope to have it resolved soon by adding comments (such as this) to explain or update the post. DaveM[/edit]

Thank you for the edited message responses - these are a really good idea!  :)

Is there any news on the facility to report problems.

[edit]
Dave wrote on May 18^th, 2007 at 7:45pm:

Not at the moment. I will contact Daniel and see what he's doing.

[/edit]

I have found a number listed on the site which does not appear to connect any more - gives 'unobtainable' tone.
How/where should I report this?

[edit]
Dave wrote on May 18^th, 2007 at 7:45pm:

In my opinion, the best way is to submit another entry to the database. Include (at least) the company name and 01/02 number. Put in the Other Info box a description of the problem and it will be picked up on. The contact page only goes through to Daniel, and I understand he has a backlog. The other way is to post on the forum, although my preference is that you add an entry to the database.

[/edit]

There is something wrong with the registrration process - have to use the 'forgot password' link to get one!

[edit]
Forum Admin wrote on Jul 9^th, 2007 at 9:58pm:

I am not aware of any problems with the registration process, and haven't had any other reports of this. The initial password confirmation e-mail can normally take up to 10 minutes to arrive.  If the receiving e-mail address is experiencing technical difficulites, or their server is overloaded, it may take longer for this mail to arrive. We would recommend that the recipient ensures that any e-mails sent from SAYNOTO0870.COM are added to any white lists, in case they are being blocked as junk mail in error. Daniel

[/edit]

Would it be possible to re-arrange the forums into smaller categories? At the moment, we've just got general and system announcements. I've reduced down system announcements because I've never seen a new post in there  ::). Could we also create other categories like "Cheap Calls and Offers" (for example) and move "Cheap Call Providers" and "Bargains etc.." into there because I very infrequently look at those categories and it would be nice to compact them down  :D.

Just an idea anyway :).


[edit]We can definitely increase the number of forums without any problem, however we don't want to have too many with hardly any posts in.  If you have any ideas for extra forums please feel free to e-mail them through, or send me a PM.
Daniel[/edit]

Hi.

would it be possible to add an RSS feed to the forums? I for one find it an easy way to monitor new topics to spot interesting ones.

Cheers,

Rob

[edit]
jgxenite wrote on Aug 25^th, 2007 at 4:12pm:

I'd like that - be nice to find out what new topics have been posted on the forum.

Johnny Debt wrote on Aug 31^st, 2007 at 9:43am:

Yes I was going to ask for that too.

[/edit]

[edit]A RSS add-in to this forum has been downloaded and currently being tested.  If no problems are encountered an RSS feed should hopefully be implemented shortly.
Daniel[/edit]

By adding WAP and a webservices API? This would then allow either mobile phone web access or the development of software to run on them

[edit]A WAP interface is currently being worked on, but is taking longer than originally expected. After this has been completed, API will be looked at and how and if it can be implemented.
Daniel[/edit]

What happened to the part where you could search Banks or Insurance or Department stores as separate categories, which then listed them all like Barclays, Natwest or First Direct, etc. ?

[edit]
Dave wrote on Sep 30^th, 2007 at 9:21pm:

It was removed ages ago. It's difficult to put entries into categories. The more categories we have, the more difficult it is to decide which one an entry should go in (and so visitors may search the wrong category) and the less categories, the more entries per category. Name searching is much better.

[/edit]

This is a superb service but I would suggest paying attention to improving its compliance with HTML standards (preferably HTML 4.01 Strict); improving accessibility, and making the site work on mobile devices. Also using the hCard microformat (http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard) to mark up your listings.

This will allow people to add them directly to their address books or dial them from their PCs or mobile devices, without needing to re-key or paste them.

For example (extraneous markup omitted for clarity):

<tr>
<td class=windowbg2><a href=[URL]>British Gas</a></td>
<td class=windowbg2>0845 6060852</td>
<td class=windowbg2>0113 3381022</td>
<td class=windowbg2>0800 0281028</td>
<td class=windowbg2>Billing enquiries;<br>also for 0845 6091122 & 0845 7888400</td></tr>
</tr>

would become

<tr class=vcard>
<td class=windowbg2 fn org><a href=[URL]>British Gas</a></td>
<td class=windowbg2 tel>0845 6060852</td>
<td class=windowbg2 tel>0113 3381022</td>
<td class=windowbg2 tel>0800 0281028</td>
<td class=windowbg2 note>Billing enquiries;<br>also for 0845 6091122 & 0845 7888400</td></tr>
</tr>

with the addition of classes "vcard", "fn org", "note" and several instances of "tel". And that's it.

I'm happy to assist with additional sample code, checking test versions, etc.

Thank you.

[edit]This has been brought to the attention of the Forum Admin and the reply from Daniel should follow shortly. Please PM him direct if you want it to be answered faster.

DaveM[/edit]

[edit]
pigsonthewing wrote on Nov 7^th, 2007 at 1:09pm:

No interest ??

[/edit]

Related but slightly different - It might be nice to start a list of known Fax Spam numbers.....
Even registering with FPS doesn't seem to halt the onslaught.

Curiously, many seem to be various flavours of 08xx xxx xxxx - But all seem to get the same computerized response that takes around 40 seconds to finally say your number is removed.

[edit]Sounds like a good idea (to me).

Can I suggest you start a thread in Geographical Requests inviting people to add Spam Numbers to it.
That way we can also find the originators of those we don't already have names for. ::)

We could even find some legal way of stopping the perpetrators.

DaveM[/edit]

I'd just like the 'search for numbers' bit much, much bigger. Otherwise, excellent

[edit]
jgxenite wrote on Nov 25^th, 2007 at 11:36am:

How do you mean bigger?

[/edit]

What about a general chit chat area? So people can just chill out etc..

[edit]This isn't a forum for General Chit Chat.

It's to request help in finding numbers or info about them, or to Chit Chat about numbers & other things.
Oh - Oh!! Couldn't you use that forum to Chit Chat ??  ::)

DaveM[/edit]

Can anyone of the moderators tell me why my Northern Ireland postcode is not recognised on the "sign the petition" page, so I can't sign it?  There are about 1 million residents in Northern Ireland.  Thats a lot of potential signatures going to waste.  It doesn't make any sense. :(

[edit]I have just looked on the PM's website and I don't see anything which says it won't accept them. What message did it give you?

Dave
[/edit]

It says "Please enter a valid postcode or choose and overseas option".  N.I is hardly "overseas"!!

[edit]Am I right in saying that the whole of Northern Ireland is in the Belfast (BT) post code? So are you saying it does not accept BT post codes?

Dave[/edit]

[edit]
MaryB wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2007 at 6:43pm:

To be absolutely sure, I used my friends details (with her permission of course) with her N.I postcode to sign the petition and to my surprise it worked!!  So the problem must just be with my particular code.  Weird!!!

[/edit]

[edit]Are you on a new estate, i.e. is your address/post code new?

Dave[/edit]

I think that somebody has already suggested something similar but what about publishing a sample letter to send to organizations that have recently, or about to, change to using a non-geographical number? The letter would need to be simple and straight to the point - telling the organization of the error of their ways, the disadvantages on a non-geo number and why they are making a big customer-relations mistake. I have been involved with two companies recently who have fallen for telecoms company marketing spiel and subsequently changed to an 0845 number thinking that it  would be "good for business" and "be CHEAPER for customers to call"!

Hi first of all i love this site, it is great !!!

So great i have it listed on every email i send everywhere, and i recommended everyone does this to spread the word of saynoto0870 and to help as many people as possible stop using those stupid expensive rip off numbers !!!

Ok i noticed you get alot of emails (from you contact page). Now on the search result page why not have a little box next to each line of results with a check box and the column named "report phone number" and then people could choose different report results such as "does not work", and "additional alternative to this number", "remove as it goes to a different company" etc. That way when you look at your emails, you can see exactly what search results people are refuring to and more importantly instantly knowing how many people are emailing you about the same thing, which would mean you could read say many emails all saying the same thing at once, saving you alot of valuable time and leaving you more time to do other things :)

What does anyone else thing? I think if people can suggest more ways to automate things on the site and help our friendly owner the more time time he will have free.

Also we could do a wiki thing where anyone can add a phone number but it is only added when say 4 moderators say yes to it, this way more phone numbers could be added very quickly without one person dedicating their life to it etc.

Anyone else have any ideas ?

I was wondering if you would consider providing an XML feed for search results?

I'm interested in developing an application that allows users to search for numbers in your database.

[edit]
alexhansford wrote on Jul 14^th, 2008 at 8:32am:

I've created an XML feed using the Dapper service - which creates XML feeds from web pages - hope this helps: http://www.dapper.net/dapp-howto-use.php?dappName=Saynoto0870working It queries the website with your company name - then turns it into an XML feed. Does that help?

[/edit]
[edit]
binarybee wrote on Jul 14^th, 2008 at 3:20pm:

I'm not sure if alexhansford's suggestion will be suitable - as I'm guessing it could easily break if the design of the results page is edited. It would be more benificial if the site admins could create a new PHP page that could be sent either a company name or phone number and it returns an XML document with search results. I'd also be interested to implement a way of submitting new numbers or reporting errors etc, but that could come later down the line. So... site admins, please can you advise if this is something that you could implement? I can assist with any PHP coding if required. If you'd like more info of the application I'm thinking of writing drop me a PM.

[/edit]
[edit]
alexhansford wrote on Jul 14^th, 2008 at 7:16pm:

I agree that this method is a bit fragile - but in the meantime this might be a start... plus you can always swap it out once we get some movement on this.

[/edit]
[edit]
binarybee wrote on Jul 14^th, 2008 at 7:31pm:

True. I'm a bit confused how the drap thing works. It doesn't appear to be giving any results?

[/edit]

Why is COPY & PASTE disabled on this site? It would make searching and using the numbers so much easier as I often use skype.

[edit]
jgxenite wrote on Oct 9^th, 2008 at 3:53pm:

Read the FAQ please.

[/edit]

Hi, its great that this site has been set up - THANKS!  Lets just hope it can hep to improve our situation - we (the British public) have been synically exploited by the Telecomms industry for far too long.  

This is a copy of a letter I sent to OFCOM recently:-  (please send your own to them too!)

To OFCOM
It seems to me that Ofcom are virtually in cahoots with the Telecomms industry!  Specifically, the 0870 rip-off - allowing (and thereby encouraging) companies to benefit financially by keeping customers on the line for as long as possible. It is absolutely outrageous!  It shows a total lack of respect for people.  It seems blindingly obvious that this is simply unethical - to any right minded person?   Surely, if we have to make a call to a company it is either to give business to them, or - if their product is unsatisfactory in any way - to request their assistance - due to THEIR products inadequacy!  WHY on earth should we have to pay for THEIR inadequacies?  The LEAST we should expect is that we only pay the minimum available rate for a call - or preferably FREE of course!  To add insult to injury, we are then placed on hold time after time which just exaccerbates the frustration & expense.  Surely, in a civilised country, we should treat people with more respect?  There can be absolutely no excuse for these unethical - and totally unnecessay - practices in a modern, civilised country.

No wonder then that ludicrously over complex & long automated answer-machines have become so prolific over recent years - the longer the messages & options, the more money they can rip-off from their poor customers!  It is quite literally a license to rip-off the British public.  So WHY on earth doesn't OFCOM ban this totally unjustified way of penalising the public?  In addition, with todays technology, it would be very easy to, for instance, for OFCOM to force all UK companies to pay for the holding part of a call.  WHY should the customer pay for the 'privelage' of being kept hanging on to the receiver listening to annoying music & messages - repeated ad nausium!  Software could easily monitor how many minutes were spent 'on hold' and that part of the call could then be billed to the company and NOT the customer.  I have personally been kept on hold for many hours in total recently - which is a totally unjustified expense which should be bourne by the inefficient business in question.  After all, to put someone on hold should very rarely be necessary - IF THEIR STAFF WERE TRAINED ADEQUATELY -  SO WHY SHOULD THE CUSTOMER BE PENALISED FOR THE INEFFICIENCIES OF THE COMPANY?    

I wonder how many millions of man-hours are wasted each year

Also, why should the public have to pay to stop those extremely expensive 09 Premium-rate numbers being dialled from our phone?   It should be every persons right to EASILY prevent these numbers being dialled from their line - and for NO EXTRA CHARGE.  Children can sometimes be tempted to dial these numbers by devious adverts & offers, so their parents should have the right to be protected from these exhorbitant charges.

You know it makes sense, so ....

SHARPEN YOUR TEETH OFCOM & TAKE ACTION NOW !!!

Great site, but why not encourage your visitors to write complaints to OFCOM regarding the numerous unethical practices that they appear to allow UK companies to use i.e. 0870, which encourages the abuse of unnecessarily complex & time-wasting answer machines as a virtual "money-extractor"!  

If we, the British public, inundate OFCOM with a continous barage of complaints surely then they must take heed?  As has been demonstrated by the the BBC-Ross/Brand fiasco, 'people-power' does seem to have actually worked, so lets use the same tactics with OFCOM hey?

I've been using this site for years and found it very helpful but only just joined the forums.

I have one query about added features, there seems to be nowhere to talk about other non geographical numbers. Since other more general sites don't have the expert knowledge members do here if I ask similar questions elsewhere they tend to end up in the 'unanswered question' lists or just get silly unhelpful suggestions.

For example I want to learn why Ofcom created 055- numbers although they already have 08- and 070- numbers charging customers more than 01/02/03 but know if I started a thread it would be in the wrong place. There must be reams of queries about the other numbers but as far as I know nowhere specific to ask them.

If you want to discuss a particular range of numbers, I'd suggest the "Geographical Numbers Chat" forum is the best place for this.

To answer your question briefly, I believe 055 numbers were intended to be corporate numbers. The idea was that a company needing lots of phone numbers could have a block of 055 numbers allocated to itself directly, and they would then find a phone company to provide the service, as opposed to a phone company being allocated the numbers then providing them to corporate customers. This idea never really took off, and as you say just adds to the confusion over the cost of calls.

Hi,

A newbie here.

Phoning 08 numbers from mobiles is especially expensive so, could you provide a service whereby the 08 number is sent by text to a number you provide and the alternative geograhical number is sent back by return text? You could pay for the service from a small charges levied on the text number.

alaister wrote on Dec 9^th, 2008 at 11:34pm:

Phoning 08 numbers from mobiles is especially expensive so, could you provide a service whereby the 08 number is sent by text to a number you provide and the alternative geograhical number is sent back by return text? You could pay for the service from a small charges levied on the text number.

The issue of access via mobiles has been brought up before. To this end, we hope to implement a mobile version of the database search engine.

See other threads in the Site Related section such as "I-Phone App".

Have a look at:
http://www.google.com/gwt/n
on your phone.

Enter the URL:
http://www.saynoto0870.com/search.php
and tick "No Images".

Then bookmark the resulting page. This uses Google to convert the site to WML or XML, according to your phone's capabilities. Many phones allow mobile web browsing now, but this gives a smaller (and cheaper if you pay per kB) version of the page, and should work on older phones.

Being that this web page is availlable to forum members only and there may be forum members that are not genuine ?? Can i state that this forum and the works of sayno have helped me save a hell of a lot of money only being a mobile phone family with no land line.. Good on yer !!! But being open to the 5th columnist of the companies that we are trying to make availlable reasonable cost phone calls to the masses. do you not think that by setting up a private message group that confirms the number is genuine and availlable is going to do more good than just adding numbers to the server as and when a poster submits them ?? There are eyes watching us ???

An API might be useful...

As a new member it would be really useful to have these posts listed in reverse chronological order - ie starting with the most recent.

Also, is it possible to delete or archive any polls that have a past cut-off date?  

Thank you :)

[edit]
NGMsGhost wrote on Apr 4^th, 2009 at 10:50am:

Well the default order of most internet forums is oldest post first and newest last.  The same order that a book is written in! Some forums let you alter the post order to have newest first for the few of you out there with unusual brain structures who for some reason find this preferable.  But this forum isn't one of them as it uses the more limited YaBB forum software. Again you arrive in the forum and then seem to think the whole place should apparently immediately be changed just for your benefit?

[/edit]

How about setting up a Facebook account for the website. I think this would help.

[edit]
dawonksta wrote on Apr 12^th, 2009 at 1:44pm:

Well, I've made you a FACEBOOK group to try to get a wider audience - it's full name is 'Say No to 0870 - Don't pay premium rate for important phone calls. Please join up !!

[/edit]

http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr192/skypaulusplus/snt0.jpg
http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr192/skypaulusplus/snt02.jpg
i was thinking the site could be done up, volantary by members of the forums, WHY NOT
so i have created two new logos for you FREE
im lovin this site, keep going

Hello,
I use iGoogle as my homepage on my PC , this allows me to add gadgets such as currency converters, money saving expert tips and driving directions to name just a few - it's just the post at the top of the page talks about mobile access.

Are there any plans to make a Say no to 0870 gadget?

thanks

I like the 3D logo from SkyPaulusPlus.

There have been many suggestions and I'm not entirely convinced that they are best all moved to one thread, as DaveM has done.

37monkey, I'm not familiar with iGoogle, what does it do?

http://www.google.co.uk/ig


I too would like to see a way of accessing the database on mobile phones. This has long been talked about and there have been offers of help, but site admin has yet to do anything.

Just one suggestion here. Fix up the format of listed numbers to comply with the Ofcom recommended way of writing them.

I put the detailed stuff in a separate thread:   http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1244293980    :)

One side benefit: maybe less repetition of the same number in multiple formats  (e.g. 023 8005 1003  and 0238 0051003 and 02380 051003) being submitted.

Off topic replies have been moved to This Thread

I was using my laptop today and I couldn't see any characters inside the blue verification box.  Is there a problem with some graphic cards?

I couldn't add an alternative number and I couldn't report the fault as they both needed me to confirm the verification number that I couldn't see >:(.

Dear Administrator of SayNoTo0870

My son recently sent me this message and I wonder if you would like to utilise the information in it and set up the same for your visitors by using voipfone?


I'm sure you are aware that you can't call an 0800 free-phone number for free using your mobile. We think that's wrong, so we thought about it for a while and have come up with a crafty way of making these calls for free, as they were originally designed to be.

Is it really totally free?

Yes - if you have a contract mobile package with included minutes to UK geographic numbers like 01 and 02. (Even if you use a Pay-as-you-go mobile it's normally cheaper than calling the 0800 directly; but you need to check with your provider.)

How does it work?

1. Dial our access number 029 2000 0800 (add it to your address book)

2. When we answer, just enter the 0800 number you want to call and wait to be connected.


That's it.


How can you do it for free?

---------------------------

We get a tiny fraction of a penny for the call from the network operator, not enough to matter but enough to cover our costs. But we mostly do it simply because we can, because it's quite cool and because we think mobile phone pricing is a rip-off.


You'll find more mobile phone workaround tricks here: http://www.voipfone.co.uk/FP_Voipfone_For_Mobile_Customers.php


This works for 0808 and 0500 free-phone numbers too.

----------------------------------------------------

ps You don't need to be a Voipfone customer to use this trick, tell your friends; send them this email!


PPS. Perhaps SayNoTo0870 would like to set up their own link for their visitors to use.

Perhaps we can improve SayNoTo0870 by having a small ads section in which providers of telecoms services can place advertisements for a modest fee.

All providers offer a valuable service to their customers and earn a living in the process. Clearly there is a good living to be made out of dial-through numbers. There is no reason why providers of this service should not incur marketing costs like any other. The indirect means by which the service is paid for does not make it fundamentally different from others.

I haven't been able to find this subject elsewhere and couldn't see how to start a new topic so I'll post here.

Like many BT customers, I jumped ship as soon as there was a viable alternative and have been a business and personal customer with Nynex/Cable & Wireless/NTL/Virgin ever since.  They're far from perfect, but they'd have a long way to go to beat BT's dire customer service.

Also, like many customers, I was completely unaware that not all 08.. numbers are charged at the 'local rate' as commonly understood (and widely marketed).  That's when I started using this very useful site.  Now, whenever I have to ring an 08.. number, I go to this site first, but I'm still unclear which numbers I actually need to do this for.  I've made three attempts to get clarification on this from Virgin, but they haven't been much help.  They've sent me a full tariff that's pages long or given detailed charging rates that still leave me unclear as to how to act.  What I need is just a simple list I can stick on my wall with the common 08.. prefixes and a simple Yes/No or tick/cross next to each one so I know which ones I need to get alternatives for and which ones I don't.

This would be a valuable item to have on your home page or, better still, on the 'SEARCH TO FIND AN ALTERNATIVE NUMBER' page.  Given that this site is of more interest to non-BT customers, I'd have thought this would be a particularly valuable addition.

Have I missed this somewhere else?

Have I posted in the right place?

Comments from a moderator/admin would be most welcome.

With BT calls via 0845 & 0870 are inclusive depending which calling plan you are on.

For Virgin

                  Charges (per min) for Freephone numbers beginning with 0800  Free

                  Charges (per min) for non-geographic numbers beginning with 0845        Charges (per min) for non-geographic numbers beginning with 0870
Daytime
6am - 6pm            9.79p                                                                                                                        9.79p

Evening
6pm - 6am            9.79p                                                                                                                        9.79p

                                                             
                                            for every chargeable (ppm) call you make, there's a connection cost of 9.79p.  


See here  http://allyours.virginmedia.com/websales/service.do?id=3


I am not sure what they charge for 0871 & 0844 numbers

Hello and welcome to SAYNOTO0870.COM.


jpfinney wrote on Oct 20^th, 2009 at 1:38pm:

…  Now, whenever I have to ring an 08.. number, I go to this site first, but I'm still unclear which numbers I actually need to do this for.  I've made three attempts to get clarification on this from Virgin, but they haven't been much help.  They've sent me a full tariff that's pages long or given detailed charging rates that still leave me unclear as to how to act.  What I need is just a simple list I can stick on my wall with the common 08.. prefixes and a simple Yes/No or tick/cross next to each one so I know which ones I need to get alternatives for and which ones I don't.

Whilst this is a good idea, it needs to be kept up-to-date.

However, in general with Virgin Media, 0845 and 0870 are very very expensive. Virgin Media publishes full call charges online at [url=www.virginmedia.com/callcosts[/url]]www.virginmedia.com/callcosts[/url]

Which tariff are you on?

It would be very helpful if there was a way to make contact to have incorrect numbers removed.  For example the first number which has been posted for Student Finance England (01273 482031) is correct for continuing students who live in East Sussex ONLY but is being used by students from all over the country who are not always happy when help is not available. This has lead to considerable frustration (and expense) for callers and for staff taking the callswho then have to be referred back to the main Student Support number.

bah wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2009 at 10:42am:

It would be very helpful if there was a way to make contact to have incorrect numbers removed.  For example the first number which has been posted for Student Finance England (01273 482031) is correct for continuing students who live in East Sussex ONLY but is being used by students from all over the country who are not always happy when help is not available. This has lead to considerable frustration (and expense) for callers and for staff taking the callswho then have to be referred back to the main Student Support number.

Hi and welcome to SAYNOTO0870.COM.

Numbers can be reported either via the contact form or the forum.

I like your advice on what to do with these entries.

You say that this number is only for students living in East Sussex, which I appreciate because it's a number for the council there. I understand that this is how it used to be before the widely reported fiasco this year; that is local councils dealt with student finance in their respective areas. That is probably why finance numbers for your council and some others are listed in our database. Do a search for student finance in the company name box and you will see what I mean.

I was in two minds whether to remove these other entries that are direct to local councils as there is now a national helpline (0845 300 5090) of which there is a direct alternative now listed. So do you still deal with student enquiries in your area when they call or do you pass them on to the national helpline?

bah wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2009 at 10:42am:

It would be very helpful if there was a way to make contact to have incorrect numbers removed.  For example the first number which has been posted for Student Finance England (01273 482031) is correct for continuing students who live in East Sussex ONLY but is being used by students from all over the country who are not always happy when help is not available. This has lead to considerable frustration (and expense) for callers and for staff taking the callswho then have to be referred back to the main Student Support number.

I note that none of the alternative numbers are listed on the Student Finance England - useful contacts page. Even the direct alternative to the main contact number seems to have been accidentally removed (or perhaps the directgov website has a feature for that to be done by whoever profits from the revenue share on the 0845 number.)

When the new owners set up their own web site it would be very helpful if they include all of this valuable additional contact information. This is of course assuming that they contract local authorities to act as their paid agents.

It would be a big help if the "Contact Us" box did not immediately lose all its information because of some perceived error -- it's disconcerting having apparently made an error finding when one goes back to correct it that all the information typed in has disappeared.

revjohnmacleod wrote on Nov 24^th, 2009 at 1:23pm:

It would be a big help if the "Contact Us" box did not immediately lose all its information because of some perceived error -- it's disconcerting having apparently made an error finding when one goes back to correct it that all the information typed in has disappeared.

I've sent you a private message which you can read by clicking the "1 message" just below the SAYNOTO0870.COM banner at the top of forum pages.

You are directing DPD and Interlink Customer Services to 0121 569 1390.  This is the customs section.  you are causing blockage and although you  have been repeatedly asked youto change the number you have not!!

p1smith wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2009 at 10:38am:

You are directing DPD and Interlink Customer Services to 0121 569 1390.  This is the customs section.  you are causing blockage and although you  have been repeatedly asked youto change the number you have not!!

What is the geographical number then?

p1smith wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2009 at 10:38am:

You are directing DPD and Interlink Customer Services to 0121 569 1390.  This is the customs section.  you are causing blockage and although you  have been repeatedly asked youto change the number you have not!!

But if your company didn't use covert premium 0844 numbers, which your customers obviously dislike else they would not be ringing numbers published here, then there wouldn't be a problem.

Your company chooses to impose charges on its customers who make contact by telephone. An inevitable side effect of this is that they are likely to look for ways around it.

p1smith wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2009 at 10:38am:

You are directing DPD and Interlink Customer Services to 0121 569 1390.  This is the customs section.  you are causing blockage and although you  have been repeatedly asked youto change the number you have not!!

I suspect that the organization above has been asked by its customers to stop using premium numbers and it has not. Stop scamming the customers then there will be no need for them to call the 'wrong' number. Easy.

Having a good look accross the whole site and also being a member of another forum based website I'd suggest a Uniform styling to SNT0870, an example of a site I mean is : http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ and their forum is: http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/ ....  

Now don't get me wrong SNT0870 is a GREAT resource, I just feel if you want to attract MORE attention to the issues and work arounds of Non-Geographic numbers then a re-design and a more uniform approach to the design of the site is needed.

I am not in a position to give any more specific examples, but I am sure u get the drift... a more connected site basically..

Keep up the good work however !


*edited for spelling mistakes"

I see there have been sooo many suggestions for improvements to SNto0870, and none of them, as far as I can see, have been implemented.

Who is actually responsible for development of this site? Who actually has access to the server? Because I'd like to talk to them about possibly helping out with actually improving the thing.

Anyone else with web design / development skills please post below as well. Hopefully we can get a team together. (I imagine we'd be working for free in our spare time, but still...)

Cheers,
Robin.

nottRobin wrote on Aug 10^th, 2010 at 12:03pm:

I see there have been sooo many suggestions for improvements to SNto0870, and none of them, as far as I can see, have been implemented.

Indeed. Many have volunteered to help out designing mobile apps and the like but their calls fall on deaf ears with site admin.  :'(

nottRobin wrote on Aug 10^th, 2010 at 12:03pm:

Who is actually responsible for development of this site?

Daniel who also runs the website entitled www.djbnet.co.uk


Quote:

Who actually has access to the server? Because I'd like to talk to them about possibly helping out with actually improving the thing.

Daniel as above but he's something of a one man band who nobody else who regularly participates on the site's Discussion Forum or even that Discussion Forum's three moderators (Dave, DaveM and bbb_uk) have ever met in person or spoken to on the telephone.  Any communications with Daniel by those involved with the site has been entirely confined to electronic messages.  He did once give a radio interview about the website but that was several years ago now.  Some other members of the discussion forum such as myself, Dave and especially SilentCallsVictim have also been quoted in the media in more recent times.

The economic basis on which this site is run is unknown since the various bits of banner advertising clearly pull in an income given the number of hits the site gets each day.  However it has been claimed in the past that the site does not make a profit although it is unknown if that is only the case after it has paid the wages of its one and only paid member of staff.  It has been previously established that the moderators of this discussion forum all give their time to the cause free of charge.

Okay. Thanks for all the information. Does Daniel have an email address? I might appeal to him directly.

You said others have shown interest. Did they send in emails? Do you have their contact details? If you have the contact details of even one other designer or developer who has shown interest, it would be helpful to give this some momentum.

Thanks very much for your help,
Robin.

My personal opinion is that Daniel does very nicely thank you out of the site's click thru banner advertising and that maintaining the site is something that fits in with his other skill sets as a web developer.  However unlike the rest of us he does not seem to be very passionate about actually getting revenue share from 084/7 numbers stopped (I don't think he has ever responded to an Ofcom consultation on the subject) and I think sees the opposition to these numbers more as an opportunity for a well trafficed website with significant earnings to the site owner from click thru advertising banners. ;)


Quote:

Does Daniel have an email address? I might appeal to him directly.

I believe that http://www.saynoto0870.com/contact/ also reaches the same email inbox.

Thanks NGMsGhost.

If what you say is true, he is entirely within his rights. He, by the sounds of it, owns the site and the data is his intellectual property. I certainly have no inherent right to it.

I will of course attempt to contact him anyway and see what he thinks of my ideas.

Cheers,
Robin.

Email sent:


Quote:

date: 10 August 2010 12:48:29 UTC+1 subject: SayNoTo0870 - Helping people make cheaper phone calls I have been having a discussion with some of the administrators on the SayNoTo0870 forum. You can read it here: http://bit.ly/bDaCIt The bottom line is, I think that SayNoTo0870 is a great idea, and the collection of numbers that you have could be a fantastic resource to help millions of people save money. It would be great if a number of things could happen: - The website could be redesigned to look more modern and aesthetically pleasing - Further functionality could be added to the website to make it easier and quicker to use - Mobile phone applications could be created to further help people avoid calling 08*** numbers I believe there are a number of web developers and designers who would be enthusiastic about helping to make this happen, and for free. All I ask is that you let us have access to the existing data so we can develop on it. If you are absolutely on board, giving us access to the server with the site on it would be even better, so we could redesign the existing site. If you are worried about loss of revenue through this exercise, I can assure you that: a) Many of us would happily work for free b) The new site could remain ad-supported, and would be more popular = increased revenue c) The mobile application could also be ad-supported for more revenue. If you like we could guarantee you at least equal income from the site going forward as you have now, or we could promise you a percentage of any income the sites make from advertisement. Please consider it. Kind regards, Robin Winslow Morris.

I just received the following reply from Daniel:


Quote:

Hi Robin, Thanks for your e-mail. The website is currently in the final stages of being redesigned.  This has been worked on since the beginning of this year, and I hope for this to be made available very shortly (within the next month). The new website will add additional featues, as well as improving the speed and functionality of the website. In addition to this we are working on multi-platform mobile access.  This is proving to be a little more complicated, but again should be available shortly. Some of the posts on the forum will need to be edited/removed as it encourages unauthorised use of the site. If you have any other suggestions, please feel free to e-mail me. Thanks Daniel

This is very promising, so I guess we can hope to see a new site pretty soon. Allowing for natural human optimism, I'd say probably allow 3 months. Still this is much quicker than I could have done anything. So I'm look forward to it :).

nottRobin wrote on Aug 10^th, 2010 at 1:40pm:

This is very promising, so I guess we can hope to see a new site pretty soon. Allowing for natural human optimism, I'd say probably allow 3 months. Still this is much quicker than I could have done anything. So I'm look forward to it :).

Robin,

I wonder if the proposed site revisions may include a method for end users to report any verified or unverified number that they find to no longer work or to positively score any unverified number that is getting through to the right place.  This would give Daniel or the moderators much better tools to rapidly prune out numbers that no longer work and to elevate to verified status numbers that a lot of site users are reporting as working successfully.

I also believe that anyone contributing a number to the site should have to join it with a user name and password and email address to do so and then should be given moderation rights to alter or update that number at least for so long as it remains in the unverified numbers camp (which past experience shows can often be for several years in the case of many numbers).  Also if other site users start scoring a number as not working properly any more the original contributor could then be automatically set up to receive emails alerting them to that fact so that they could update the number with a new working number if they have one.

Of course there is always the potential for abuse by those with malicious intent.  This is why I think anyone wanting to add numbers to the site or provide a feedback score on them should have to join the site with a user name and password.  This means that if it is later proved that a site member has maliciously added many non working numbers to the site or has reported good numbers as not working (that in fact worked perfectly well) then all their false feedback and contributed numbers ought to then be able to be easily removed.

As the site currently stands it would unfortunately be relatively easy for an opponent of www.saynoto0870.com to start flooding the site with unverified numbers that don't work for major companies in order to try to undermine the site's credibility.

I hope these thoughts are useful to either you or to Daniel if he is also following the contents of this thread?

I agree with all of this except for the part about forcing people to register onto the site to submit a number. The site relies upon it being as easy as possible to submit alternative numbers. I'd much rather allow anyone to submit any number, and then have a mechanism whereby people can instantly report numbers as failed (once again without logging in), so fake / useless numbers quickly fall to the bottom of the search results.

I do think it's a good idea to allow people to log in and then link numbers they have submitted to their account so they can go back and change them.

Daniel hasn't let me see the site yet, he's just told me it exists. I don't think we are feasibly going to have any way of knowing what functionality it has until it is made live.

nottRobin wrote on Aug 10^th, 2010 at 3:03pm:

I agree with all of this except for the part about forcing people to register onto the site to submit a number. The site relies upon it being as easy as possible to submit alternative numbers. I'd much rather allow anyone to submit any number, and then have a mechanism whereby people can instantly report numbers as failed (once again without logging in), so fake / useless numbers quickly fall to the bottom of the search results.

We must not underestimate the level of feedback that may ensue if a system were to be implemented as nottRobin suggests here.

The best solution would be one which requires much less human intervention for each individual report/contact message from each individual user. However, I am not sure how this could be implemented, especially as there are many entries that give the same geographic alternative.

Other types of update include the addition of extra or replacement 08 number(s).

Noting the above exchanges with interest.

I hope that in planning the re-launch of the site and associated additional "smart phone" apps, consideration has been given to the points listed below. I recognise that as this is a private venture (other than the data and the forum postings which are contributed to give it its value), there is no need for open discussion of these issues to be encouraged or to bear on what is actually done.

• A smart phone app will have to compete with well established existing apps which are understood to use data derived from this site. One hopes that proper measures will be taken to shut down or disable these competitors, as well as the pirate websites that are also seen to use suspiciously similar data. This is vital to protect the efforts of contributors from being used for profit by others and to protect the commercial interests of the site itself.
  
  
• Whilst those who contribute numbers are doubtless content for the money earned from advertising to be put towards the maintenance of the site, there will be continuing concerns that much of the advertising is promoting the businesses which the site exists to oppose. I hope that careful thought has been given to the economics of the site in this context. Given that there have been many offers of volunteer development resource, it is disappointing that none of these appear to have been taken up, as this would have removed some of the pressure to carry inappropriate advertising.
  
  
• There has been discussion of a suitable new name for the site, given that 0870 has not been a revenue sharing number for over 12 months now. It is primarily the practice of revenue sharing that is opposed, not just unnecessarily high call costs levied by telephone companies. Ofcom has "said no to 0870", although we await stronger regulation that is likely to be announced shortly. BT has also "said no to 0870" and now charges less for 0844 calls than for non-inclusive geographic and 03 calls. References to the old (current) name and its historic past achievements cannot be lost, however it is no longer contemporary. A large part of the campaigning element of the site is educating people about what is going on with this very difficult topic. This is not helped by a name that actually creates confusion from the very start.
  

Hi SilentCallsVictim. Thanks for joining in :)


Quote:

A smart phone app will have to compete with well established existing apps

If there are existing apps, I would suggest rather than shutting them down, or trying to compete with them, we get in touch with them and see if we can collaborate on an improved solution. Seems like a much better solution.


Quote:

there will be continuing concerns that much of the advertising is promoting the businesses which the site exists to oppose

Apparently, only the site's owner, Daniel has any control over the advertising, and he probably receives all the revenue. However, I don't think it's prudent to be over-militaristic about selecting our advertising carefully. After all, almost all companies use some 08 numbers, and just because a company uses an 08 number doesn't mean they're all bad. It doesn't seem that hypocritical to me to provide alternatives to Tesco numbers yet still have an advert for Tesco.


Quote:

There has been discussion of a suitable new name for the site

Good point about the site name. It would be a good idea to change it, although the name "saynoto0870" carries a lot of pedigree, so we should at least forward saynoto0870 to the new site name, whatever it is.

Robin.

Just to add my input regarding the name,

Dave's blog (well the SNT0870 one) is called Fair Telecoms I suggested sometime ago this might be a worthwhile name

:)

I see that the site owner has removed posts from the thread that speculated about the commercial benefits he may derive from running the site.  However I note that he has not deemed it appropriate to deny that he manages to earn some form of income from the operation of the site.

I noticed that too. Although the deleted posts weren't just suggesting he gets commercial gain from the site (which isn't so bad) but also that he doesn't have an appropriate enthusiasm for the cause (that is, campaigning against the existence of 08*** numbers) - in fact that he deliberately makes life hard for those of us that would like to use this site and its information to further the cause - which is more objectionable.

I think these judgements about our dear site owner might be a little unfair, however, they are not without grounds. It would be far more fair and up-front of Daniel if he would just clarify his position by posting on this forum, rather than covertly deleting posts.

However that probably won't happen. In fact, this post will probably get deleted. Ah well.

Oh another thing is, a very informative post by someone who has actually developed an 0870 mobile phone app was also deleted. That was a real shame. We should be allying with him.

Robin.

NGMsGhost wrote on Aug 11^th, 2010 at 11:17pm:

I see that the site owner has removed posts from the thread that speculated about the commercial benefits he may derive from running the site.  However I note that he has not deemed it appropriate to deny that he manages to earn some form of income from the operation of the site.

Having my own domain name, and hosting space, I can personally appreciate the need to have some sort of "return" from such a popular site, however I'd imagine it would be around enough to cover the on going running costs of the site, as apposed to making any "profit"

CJT-80 wrote on Aug 11^th, 2010 at 11:29pm:

Having my own domain name, and hosting space, I can personally appreciate the need to have some sort of "return" from such a popular site, however I'd imagine it would be around enough to cover the on going running costs of the site, as opposed to making any "profit"

Surely that depends entirely on the amount of site traffic and the third party ad banners you run.  A busy site will be highly profitable.  A quiet site will only cover your own development time.  Otherwise how does www.topcashback.co.uk make any money given that all the commission on the directly linked marketing parties is paid to the members.

I note that www.saynoto0870.com is frequently a very busy site indeed that quite often runs out of sufficient bandwidth to handle all the traffic it is receiving due to recent further traffic increases. ;)

Dear All,

I just wanted to post a reply on this thread due to the number of comments recently that I have had to remove.

The recent comments cover three different points:  1)  Website Design.  2)  Removed Posts.  3)  Income from site.

I will therefore comment on each one separately.

1)  Website Design - The new website has been under development for some time and is almost there.  I will be posting a link on the discussion forum before it is made officially 'live' so that regulars can provide any feedback.  Realistically it is going to be a couple of months before the new site is made available.  The new website is going to have an easy option for visitors to report numbers working/not working.  This should hopefully reduce some of the work load on responding to individual e-mails and posts, and improve the website as a whole.

2)  Removal of Posts - Any posts that are untrue and incorrect will of course be removed.  Sometimes it is easier to edit the post and remove the offending line or two (if applicable), other times the full post itself will be removed - It is not possible to respond to each and every post of this kind, especially when some are made in either a malicious or mischevious manner.

As I'm sure you will all understand it is unfair to expect posts that are promoting or discussing copying parts of the website to be left in place.  Many hours are spent each day by myself and the moderators on the forum, database and responding to e-mails that are sent in via the website.  Any posts discussing such will be removed.  This is the same with most forums and not specific to this one.

3)  Income from site - I have no obligation to discuss this, but feel it is only fair to put my point across.  I have always been open and said that the website as a whole is privately funded by myself, and have never denied that income is received from the website.  I do NOT pay myself a wage, and on average the income received just covers the costs involved.  This ensures that the website and features available can remain free to use for visitors of the site.

A lot of money has been spent recently to have work done to improve the reliability and performance of the website.  This includes both software related and hardware upgrades to cope with increasing traffic.

I hope this clarifies some of the points put forward and explains the reasonings behind it.

Thanks for your continued support,

Daniel (Forum Admin)

Getting back to improvements for the site:

How about arrows for page navigation on a multi page topic (next, previous, first, last).  The numbers are quite small and the bold highlight difficult to make out.

And why is my browser not compatible with Smiley buttons?? [Firefox 3.6.12]

1Razor wrote on Oct 30^th, 2010 at 3:43pm:

Getting back to improvements for the site: How about an arrow to take you to the next page on a multi page topic.  The numbers are quite small and the bold highlight difficult to make out.

Hello and welcome to SAYNOTO0870.COM.

Sadly, the forum software is way out of date. The best thing to do is to click the http://www.saynoto0870.com/forum/Templates/Forum/default/index_togl.gif button next to the page numbers for one of the topics.



1Razor wrote on Oct 30^th, 2010 at 3:43pm:

And why is my browser not compatible with Smiley buttons?? [Firefox 3.6.12]

What's happening when you click them?

Works fine for me, I'm using that version of Firefox.  :)

1Razor wrote on Oct 30^th, 2010 at 3:43pm:

And why is my browser not compatible with Smiley buttons?? [Firefox 3.6.12]

What's happening when you click them?

Works fine for me, I'm using that version of Firefox.  :)[/quote]

WOW thanks for the speedy reply Dave
ANS: There are no Smileys present - just the line

browser not compatible with theses buttons   -   can't understand why


Thank you for the welcome.
Used the site a few times now and added a couple of numbers so I thought I may as well become active.  A big thank you for all the work you're doing

Recently purchased an iPhone so looking forward to an App to becoming available!

Ray

My BAD!  DOH!

NoScript active!  Once I allowed the site Voila! :-[ :-[

Are there any plans to provide a mobile version of this website? I would definitely welcome that.

Regards, carentrica

Any chance you could add a link to the unverified numbers, to verify them. Lots of numbers on site are listed as unverified, but I know of some which I could verify, but at the moment, don't know how to verify.

buzby316 wrote on Feb 15^th, 2011 at 2:34pm:

Any chance you could add a link to the unverified numbers, to verify them. Lots of numbers on site are listed as unverified, but I know of some which I could verify, but at the moment, don't know how to verify.

Post in Geographical Requests - click here with the Name of the company, the 08 number and then the varified 01/02/03 alternative and Dave or another Moderator will update the listings

:)

Also Welcome to SayNoTo0870.com

:)

Hi - I did try a search but did not find an answer so here goes!
I have found that when searching for an alternate number the search engine is very specific - if you search for eg 01234 567 7899 it will not list any numbers, but if you search again for 012345677899 it will give alternate numbers.
Is there any way of setting the search to work out the space / no space in the number?
Thanks for the great site!

kaydee wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 10:45am:

Hi - I did try a search but did not find an answer so here goes! I have found that when searching for an alternate number the search engine is very specific - if you search for eg 01234 567 7899 it will not list any numbers, but if you search again for 012345677899 it will give alternate numbers. Is there any way of setting the search to work out the space / no space in the number? Thanks for the great site!

Hi kaydee. Please can you post an example as as far as I know it does work with and without spaces in a telephone number.

Dave,
I must most humbly apologise!!
This was something that has thwarted me in the past, and after a successful search this morning followed by a look in the forum, my addled brain suddenly thought - 'remember you couldn't find a number cos etc' and I posted my query without checking to see if things had changed!
And of course I can't remember now which searches in the past caused me problems!!
I promise to do better research in the future before bothering people!!
Sorry,
but once again, many thanks for a really useful site!

kaydee wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 11:50am:

Dave, I must most humbly apologise!! This was something that has thwarted me in the past, and after a successful search this morning followed by a look in the forum, my addled brain suddenly thought - 'remember you couldn't find a number cos etc' and I posted my query without checking to see if things had changed! And of course I can't remember now which searches in the past caused me problems!! I promise to do better research in the future before bothering people!! Sorry, but once again, many thanks for a really useful site!

Thanks for responding to my question. Good to hear it works for you now.

Please do join in, reporting non-working numbers and unverified working numbers via the forum (in the Geographical Requests section) so we can make the listings better. I or one of my colleagues will pick up on these updates and do the necessaries.

Hello Dave
I have just joined this site through a friend and was wondering what if the community were able toadd 08 numbers that have been changed to some other number, I have had numbers that have and these have not been included on this site ; can I add these

jtv wrote on Apr 10^th, 2011 at 3:27am:

Hello Dave I have just joined this site through a friend and was wondering what if the community were able toadd 08 numbers that have been changed to some other number, I have had numbers that have and these have not been included on this site ; can I add these

Hello and welcome to SAYNOTO0870.COM.

Yes, updates on existing entries are always welcome, including those where 08 numbers have changed.

If you post them in the forum they are usually picked up on quickly by myself or one of my colleagues. Submitting to the database means they go in at the bottom whereas when a message is posted in the forum, we can update existing entries.

Alternatively, you can notify me privately by private message (when you've made five postings) or by e-mail to dave {at} saynoto0870 {dot} com.

My experience of using site today - not a complaint.

I found information I needed via a message about an unverified number and in an effort to help, wanted to confirm the information in the message.

I followed instructions, was directed to 'contact us' link and duly completed web based form to only then see the advice about posting info into Forum.

Time was short I was not then going to redo my message however if initially I had been directed to login page on forum as an alternative to the web based contact form, I would have used the forum instead.

Maybe I miss read something, that is very possible, I am not going to join in a debate about this and do not need a response, but if my report is of use - good - if not - sorry - please disregard it.

Andrew_S_Hatton wrote on May 6^th, 2011 at 10:52am:

My experience of using site today - not a complaint. I found information I needed via a message about an unverified number and in an effort to help, wanted to confirm the information in the message. I followed instructions, was directed to 'contact us' link and duly completed web based form to only then see the advice about posting info into Forum. Time was short I was not then going to redo my message however if initially I had been directed to login page on forum as an alternative to the web based contact form, I would have used the forum instead. Maybe I miss read something, that is very possible, I am not going to join in a debate about this and do not need a response, but if my report is of use - good - if not - sorry - please disregard it.

I wish to acknowledge the point you've raised, although there is nothing I can do about it.

I have pointed out shortcomings like this to site admin many many times. As I am not involved in the operational side of the site, I cannot do anything to change this.

I always encourage users to join the forum and post about updates, additions and removals to/from the database that are found to be necessary. Entries submitted using the Add form will be likely to stay unverified.

Whilst in no way the only shortcoming, the fact that entries are submitted anonymously, means that all must be verified as we have no idea who added them. Updates that are submitted as new (unverified) entries will be at the bottom of the listings, so users will still see the old/wrong number first, and I guess they will try it.

If you don't wish to post publically, you can always e-mail me, dave {at} saynoto0870 {dot} com, although posting in the forum puts your comments on public record which might be useful at a later date should that number stop working for whatever reason.

I use the site all the time but have become tired of having to use the Edit, Find function of my browser to locate the local branch of a large chain I am looking for.

So I tried a new tack this morning and, instead of entering the name of the firm (it was Halifax actually) in the Please enter a Company Name to search for box, I entered the town (in this case, it was Colchester).

That showed me a list (in alphabetical order by firms' names) of details of all database entries which include the word Colchester - and enabled me to quickly scroll down to check the H's in the Verified and then the H's in the Unverified listings.

As it happens, the Unverified lisiting showed the correct geograpical number and, after use, I used the Contact Us form to send verification.

Heinz wrote on May 6^th, 2011 at 2:02pm:

I use the site all the time but have become tired of having to use the Edit, Find function of my browser to locate the local branch of a large chain I am looking for.

I use Firefox and to search, you just start typing whilst on a page and it will jump to that text on the page (if it is found). I usually type the STD code of the number I'm looking for.

Firefox doesn't require the user to select Edit > Find, or press any other key.

I'm not familiar with other browsers; whether they have such a feature. It might be called "Find as you Type" or something similar. Some browsers have add-ons and perhaps an add-on is available for this if it isn't supported by the browser's basic function.

If there isn't a Find as you Type tool, then you will probably find that there is a shortcut to get to the Find box, such as Ctrl+F or F3.



Heinz wrote on May 6^th, 2011 at 2:02pm:

So I tried a new tack this morning and, instead of entering the name of the firm (it was Halifax actually) in the Please enter a Company Name to search for box, I entered the town (in this case, it was Colchester).

This will work where the name of the place has been added as part of the entry. Particularly with unverified entries (rather than verified ones), there are some where numbers have been added without telling us where the branch is for.

Dave wrote on May 6^th, 2011 at 3:38pm:

Heinz wrote on May 6th, 2011 at 2:02pm: I use the site all the time but have become tired of having to use the Edit, Find function of my browser to locate the local branch of a large chain I am looking for. I use Firefox and to search, you just start typing whilst on a page and it will jump to that text on the page (if it is found). I usually type the STD code of the number I'm looking for. Firefox doesn't require the user to select Edit > Find, or press any other key. I'm not familiar with other browsers; whether they have such a feature.....

I also use similar way of searching for specific things.

Also, IE8 & IE9 (not sure about earlier version like IE7) have a similar feature where you can do Edit > Find on this page (Ctrl-F) and it will highlight in yellow anything that matches the search criteria you entered and you can also click Next or Previous as needed to jump to those it's found.

I can't find if this has been requested or suggested before in the forums, bit I think it would be very useful to add Saynoto0870 to a right click menu when you select or highlight a number on a web page.  In the same way that when you hightlight or select some text now, one of the menu options is "Search Google for...".  Why not a "Search Saynoto0870..." menu item?

Cheers.

Off-Topic replies have been moved to this Topic.

Is SaynoTo0870 still current and up to date?

Hi DMHUNT,

Yes, I can confirm that the SAYNOTO0870.COM continues to be updated on a constant (daily) basis.

All the best,

Daniel

Forum Admin wrote on Apr 9^th, 2020 at 6:41pm:

Yes, I can confirm that the SAYNOTO0870.COM continues to be updated on a constant (daily) basis.

Daniel,

Its good to know that after all these years you are in fact still the owner of and still maintain this website in respect of the hardcore group of companies and organisations that continue to illegally use 084, 087 or 070 or 09 numbers to contact them (or at least it is illegal if any of those numbers support a customer service function).

But if indeed the site is still operational can you please explain to me why recent attempts to add new alternative numbers to the site have been unsuccessful and although they are confirmed as being added they do not then ever appear when you do a number search for either the organisation name added or for the non geographic number one is providing an alternative for.

For instance I tried adding an alternative for Adam J Walker Associate's only listed contact number of 0845 226 9053 at www.adamjwalker.co.uk/contact-us/ of 01923 334881 (as listed at https://heronsgate.cylex-uk.co.uk/company/adam-j-walker---associates-26980022.html) and entered the correct code before adding it and did this twice but each time the number was not there when searched. And this is not the first time I have had this problem adding a new number to the site and every time I have tried to do so in the last couple of years the number is then not available to use.

So can you please explain what exactly is going wrong and why the primary purpose of this website in providing alternative geographic numbers for 084/7 number is seemingly no longer working successfully? :o :'(

Hi,

Thanks for your message.  It is nice to see you here too - It has been many years as you say, time certainly seems to be flying by.

Lately there has been a large number of spam entries being added to the website - With lots of foreign text (mainly Russian) amongst other things.  I've been bulk deleting this and can only assume that your entries have been deleted in between the others.

I can't see any other reason why this should be happening as once added it should be instantly available in the 'Unverified' list.

If you don't mind trying to add it again I will watch out for it and double check that this was the reason.

All the best,

Daniel

Forum Admin wrote on Mar 9^th, 2021 at 12:19am:

Lately there has been a large number of spam entries being added to the website - With lots of foreign text (mainly Russian) amongst other things.  I've been bulk deleting this and can only assume that your entries have been deleted in between the others. I can't see any other reason why this should be happening as once added it should be instantly available in the 'Unverified' list. If you don't mind trying to add it again I will watch out for it and double check that this was the reason. All the best, Daniel

The reason your system seemed to be automatically rejecting the listing and not publishing it in a Search result after addition seems to be because the firm name I used was the one shown on their website at www.adamjwalker.co.uk/contact-us/ of Adam J Walker & Associates. The geographic alternative is shown at https://www.yell.com/biz/adam-j-walker-and-associates-rickmansworth-6645767/

I have now added it again as Adam Walker Associates and the number now does come up on a search result straight away.

So it seems the www.saynto0870.com number search system has a problem handling ampersands (& signs) or that the number addition system has an automatic block on any business name containing an ampersand (& sign)

As the 0845 number for Adam J Walker & Associates and its geographic alternative always currently seem to be engaged I have added a second number alternative for Adam Walker Associates of the geographic number for probate brokers www.finalduties.co.uk as their only company director as currently listed at https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/06625147/officers is Adam J Walker of precisely the same address at Heronsgate in Rickmansworth used by Adam J Walker & Associates.

However if you want to merge these two entries in to one and show both the 01923 number and the 01276 number as being geographic alternatives for the 0845 number than that's perfectly ok with me.

EDIT:- Actually it now turns out the best alternative geographic number for Adam J Walker is one that I see they have now added on their own website at www.adamjwalker.co.uk/contact-us/ as being one for "International Callers" of 01923 904 784 which clearly shows a woeful misunderstanding of the costs of calling 0845 from a UK mobile number in particular (and I very much doubt that EE owned by O2 include 0845 numbers in any of their free minutes on their call packages).

Anyway that number (01923 904784) was being answered just now when I called it and also asked if Mr Walker could call me back to explain about his involvement with probate brokers www.finalduties.co.uk where he is the only person listed in several of their 10 year old newspaper articles on their website and is the only Director of the company but he mysteriously doesn't seem to work there on a day to day basis but instead works for Adam J Walker & Associates.

Just that I have something of an interest in Final Duties having also had a probate quote for them on my late mother's estate that I decided not to go ahead with as it seemed to omit various crucial aspects of work on the estate compared to the over two times more expensive quote received from Co-op Financial Services (who I and my sister also didn't use in the end).

Daniel,

This is getting quite ridiculous as today both the listings I added for Adam Walker Associates have disappeared from the listings and cannot be found either through a name search for Adam Walker or by searching on the 0845 number of 0845 226 9053.

So it seems you must run some kind of automatic robot app on the database that is quite wrongly removing legitimate database number additions as being rogue, spam or duplicate database entries.

Please can this problem be fixed and please can the geographic alternative number for Adam J Walker & Associates be restored to the listings..................

On checking again today it seems the two listing are there for Adam Walker Associates in the Unverified numbers section in Blue, rather than the Verified numbers section in White.

But in this situation of there only being search results in the Unverified Section you are returned a search results screen with no numbers showing on the section you are looking at and just a big blank page with "No numbers have been found in the main database that match the criteria you have just entered."

Only if you bother to manually scroll down the apparently null search results screen do you then find the unverified listings off the bottom of the screen.

But the question is with all the old stalwarts like Dave and bbb_uk (Kevin) seemingly no longer involved in the site how exactly does an Unverified number ever move to the Verified section. Also the search result listing where there are only Unverified number results is confusing as it makes it look like no search results have been found at all......... :( :'(

EDIT:- Definitely something weird going on with number addition as just added an entry for Final Duties who share the same company director as Adam Walker Associates and that entry now isn't appearing at all as a search result, even in the unverified section of the search results.

SECOND EDIT:-Added the Final Duties entry again and now seems to be there and returned in a search result as an unverified entry.

Hi,

Just been looking into this.  The two entries you added on 9th March for Adam Walker Associates are showing and would be showing on the Unverified list (as you mentioned).

I've gone and amended these to show the advertised 01923 number that you mentioned worked best and gone ahead and verified it - so it should be showing in the main list too.

I've also done the same for Final Duties - so this should be showing too.

The unverified entries do get checked but due to the numbers involved (and spam entries too) it can take weeks or months at times for entries to get checked and approved.

I'm not sure why the initial attempt at adding the numbers resulted in it not being shown in the unverified section as it should have done.  There is some automated filtering that takes place but this is primarily on IP address (from spammers) and as you added again it won't have been accidentally caught out by that.

Can you recall whether you received the confirmation message thanking you for adding the number the time the number didn't show at all ?

Thanks
Daniel

Daniel,

For some years now I have never received any forum update or other emails from saynoto0870.com and although I have tried whitelisting the domain in my ISP settings even that does not work in saynot0870.com's case (it seems to work with almost everyone else who's emails get misclassified as spam).

I'm not sure exactly why that is the case.

I also received a sudden promise from Julie Drake at Adam J Walker in mid March that they would now be replacing the 0845 number with a geographic one but that it may take some time (for reasons not made clear).

But over a month later they are still showing only the 0845 number under Contact Us on their website..........

NGMsGhost wrote on Apr 21^st, 2021 at 2:42pm:

Daniel, For some years now I have never received any forum update or other emails from saynoto0870.com and although I have tried whitelisting the domain in my ISP settings even that does not work in saynot0870.com's case (it seems to work with almost everyone else who's emails get misclassified as spam). I'm not sure exactly why that is the case. I also received a sudden promise from Julie Drake at Adam J Walker in mid March that they would now be replacing the 0845 number with a geographic one but that it may take some time (for reasons not made clear). But over a month later they are still showing only the 0845 number under Contact Us on their website..........

Hi,

I've been having the same issue recently with notifications from the website and struggling to get to the root cause of the problem.  When I get some more time I will investigate this further and see if I can find out why this is happening.

Keep us updated with regards to the companies website - From experience some companies can be very slow to act.

NGMsGhost wrote on Apr 21^st, 2021 at 2:42pm:

I also received a sudden promise from Julie Drake at Adam J Walker in mid March that they would now be replacing the 0845 number with a geographic one but that it may take some time (for reasons not made clear). But over a month later they are still showing only the 0845 number under Contact Us on their website..........

It would appear to still be the same as of 15/05/21.  0845 number and International callers +44 number.

They just need to remove the 0845 number and leave the 01923 number!  :o