Just thought I'd pass on the reply I've received from Martin Lewis of Money Savings Expert. I understand he's preparing an article on the Future of 0870 Consultation to go out with his weekly email tips.  
Obviously this could help significantly in making more and more people aware of the consultation.  Fingers crossed!


Quote:

Re: Highlight Ofcom Consultation RE: Future of 0870 numbers ? I'm already preparing something on it :0 MSE Martin Quote: Originally Posted by gdh82 Dear Martin/MSE, Please would you consider including in future weekly email of tips, a mention of Ofcom's current consultation which closes on 6 Dec05. http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/nts_forward/ And for help with responding... http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/...;num=1129637610 You're obviously aware of 0870 issues judging from the very useful article on your site regarding 0870 numbers... http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cg...086555604,78422 and I'm sure many of the users of your site would appreciate being made aware of this opportunity to have their say on the matter. Thanks in anticipation. Kind Regards Garry

Thanks for that.

Let's hope that even more people respond now.

The latest mailing from the moneysaving expert contains the following:

<<
The end is near for disgraceful 0870 numbers

0870 numbers hideously cost as much as eight times normal calls, even though they're called National Rate. Thankfully, communications industry regulator Ofcom revised original proposals to address consumers' concerns, and they look good. More Info Article: Say No to 0870
>>

Comments?!

Has MSE Martin pointed to the information pages on this site?

I can't currently access their website or forum at this moment in time.  I'm assuming they're down!

The links provided are:

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cgi-bin/viewnews.cgi?newsid1120053033,70104#update

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cgi-bin/viewnews.cgi?newsid1086555604,78422,

wrote on Nov 8^th, 2005 at 7:34pm:

The links provided are: ~ I cannot access any of the above.

Did you get "Error: Invalid start/end news items."

I noticed that the last part of the writing is not highlighted as part of the link. I had this problem elsewhere the other day; maybe the comma truncates the address.

Perhaps they were similar where you saw them first.

If you highlight the whole address, then copy and paste it in the browser address bar, it seems to work

The links from the original email now seem to work, but the ones I posted above are, as you say, truncated presumably because of the comma. Perhaps a moderator can correct these links?

Update - I've now modified the links myself so both should work.

What a wasted opportunity. If there was ever a consumer resource that could solicit a huge response to the Ofcom consultation then it is the money saving site. Instead, it sends out a bland statement congratulating Ofcom simply reproducing its proposals, and making no reference, at least not one that I can see, to submitting comments and responses to Ofcom. With a mailing list of tens, if not hundreds of thousands, this could have been the publicity that is so needed, yet there is not one reference or link to either the Ofcom consultation or indeed this sayno web site. What a shocker!

Hang on, guys!  I think those two links are to old items!

I understand what is currently been worked on is something new to be included in MSE's weekly emails ?   We shall see - I'll pass on anything I read on the subject.

I am referring to what I believe to be the 'weekly email' from the money expert.

This was received today with a timestamp of 1:46pm EST (ie 6:46pm UK time):

"£100s in free cash, 20 quid DVD player, Travelodge Tennertastic rooms again, 0% overdraft, 5p/min to call mobiles, cheapest loan for poorer credit scorers, Lidl and Aldi hunt, new top savings account, sad fart rights, special teachers note and much, much more MoneySaving...."

including

"The Ones Not To Miss"

which further includes

"The end is near for disgraceful 0870 numbers
0870 numbers hideously cost as much as eight times normal calls, even though they're called National Rate. Thankfully, communications industry regulator Ofcom revised original proposals to address consumers' concerns, and they look good. More Info Article: Say No to 0870" and the associated links I posted earlier.

Are you saying that this is not the 'weekly email'?

Note I am only an occasional reader of money expert so I'm more than happy to be corrected if necessary, but I am on the mailing list!

For those that haven't received the email as yet you can view MSE latest (as in today's) moneysaving tips here.

It appears my reference to the weekly email was, in fact, correct.

As I said earlier, and assuming nothing else is forthcoming, this is a wasted opportunity. Clearly the money saving site has been taken in by the Ofcom spin. Once a vehement opponent of the rip-off, the surrender has been swift.

This mass email could have galvanized many hundreds of people to make their viewpoints known to Ofcom. Now, the masses will simply believe that Ofcom has sorted out the 0870 mess.

Unless another journo can promote this consultation (Mr Derbyshire, perhaps?), the number of responses will probably be insufficient to make much of a difference.

Doesn't the MSE take the 'pieces of silver' from the BBC/ITV (the masters of 0870 culture) in his 'day job'?
So is it surprising that the MSE site rolls over so easily to Ofcoms way of thinking - or is the cynic coming out in me?

I stand corrected, idb.

:( Like you, idb, I too received a MSE weekly email today and very dissappointingly it simply contains links to what are two previous articles.  Neither article encourages the reader to have their say nor does it state the 6 Dec 05 deadline  ???  A minor consolation is that the article 'Say No To 0870! Don't pay to complain' does contain a link to this site's homepage which in turn highlights the deadline and contains a link to the information pages.

For what its worth I'll send another pm to MSE and see if anything becomes of it...

Quote:

Hi as you're probably aware I sponsor the saynoto0870 site and link to it from the main article anyway MSE Martin

The above is the reply to my earlier pm asking Martin if he'd include a link to the information pages.  Does this mean that because he's sponsor of this site, he doesn't need to make any further efforts on the 0870 front?

I've since sent a further pm highlighting that the statement in the current weekly tips email is too simplistic and does not begin to tell the wider story of this consultation...

It has been extremely clear for some while that the reality is that Martin has gone cold on the whole business of fighting the NGN scam. He has for some reason done a complete "U" turn.

A year or so ago he was writing voraciously about how he was going to organise a collective MSE protest movement, with a number of key facets. He even set a date at one point. Then it was put off ..... and off ..... and off. Virtually all mention of campaigning against the scams then disappeared, although from time to time several people asked him what had happened and why the promised campaign was not occurring.

So I don't think you should hope for much in that direction. The mention in the MSE newsletter is probably about all there will be.

I,also remember Martin (MSE??) promising to take on 0870 numbers, and then reneging.
It seemed to coincide with when he became a 'TV star'.  He was obviously told "Don't bite the hand that feeds you".
So much for independent journalism - as we have seen from the comments on this site, there is little evidence of that around anyway.

wrote on Nov 10^th, 2005 at 7:39am:

It seemed to coincide with when he became a 'TV star'.  He was obviously told "Don't bite the hand that feeds you".

It dosn't appear that obvious from what he said recently.

He sent this to hundreds of thousands of people


Quote:

The end is near for disgraceful 0870 numbers 0870 numbers hideously cost as much as eight times normal calls, even though they're called National Rate. Thankfully, communications industry regulator Ofcom revised original proposals to address consumers' concerns,

Perhaps the words disgraceful and hideously did not register with some people.

It is said also that this site is sponsored by him.

But he is only saying this because, in his opinion, Ofcom are about to clear up the whole thing after their 'consultation - which we all know is rubbish.

Martin (MSE) must be sharp enough to understand this as well, so why (as dorf pointed out) did he prevaricate about a 'campaign'??

His was a perfect site to assist this campaign against covert premium numbers, disappointing he wouldn't do it.

I don't think we are entitled to prejudge what Ofcom's conclusions and actions will be. Perhaps there will be some overdue rather more widespread reconstruction of numbering systems, that lead to clearer understanding of charges.

As for Martin, he has informed all his email subscribers; it is prominently featured on a number of threads on his forum, including links to here by people who are members of both.

He is obviously very busy all the time, and as some people suggested to me after certain events, perhaps has become a victim of his own success and doesn't have enough time to devote to everything.

Certainly I thought his article about roaming abroad with your mobile would have benefitted from more research time; he did modify it with more information from some members, but not as much as suggested; you can save much more.

Perhaps he thinks he has done enough; or perhaps he too thinks that his average subscriber is of the low intelligence that people here have cliquishly suggested, and would not cope with the issues; perhaps he remembers other remarks ...

Or perhaps after bringing it back to attention in this newsletter, he will develop the issue more in the near future.

wrote on Nov 10^th, 2005 at 3:54pm:

As for Martin, he has informed all his email subscribers; it is prominently featured on a number of threads on his forum, including links to here by people who are members of both. He is obviously very busy all the time, and as some people suggested to me after certain events, perhaps has become a victim of his own success and doesn't have enough time to devote to everything.

He may well be busy however his site used to protest very strongly about the NGN abuse. The email sent out implies that, at last, Ofcom is addressing the issue and will provide a satisfactory conclusion. This may or may not be the case. The real failing, in my opinion, is that he failed to draw attention to the Ofcom consultation (which would only require the pasting of a couple of urls into the email), and given the huge circulation of this email, even if a small percentage of recipients responded, it would have been highly beneficial. Irrespective of one's views, I feel this is a wasted opportunity.

I think you are probably right.

However, I've just edited my last sentence in to hope that there is more to come

[quote author=andy9  link=1131448703/15#21 date=1131638658]However, I've just edited my last sentence in to hope that there is more to come[/quote]Let's hope so. Perhaps unfair to criticize him from afar, and I acknowledge that his resource does a lot of good. From the NGN perspective, he is one person who can make a real difference. Whilst some of us here chip away at certain bodies and specific subjects according to our particular interests and varied areas of expertise, the MSE has real clout together with respect for his journalistic abilities and awareness of key issues - clout that I suspect we really don't have!

In keeping with this optimisim, I've amended the title of this thread.  Having received two PMs from MSE Martin yesterday I've yet to receive a reply from my third PM but you never know....  my fingers are crossed anyway!  

Time is getting short for MSE to get involved. he has been ducking the issue for such a long time that I cannot see him doing something before the deadline, I agree with others who say he does not WANT to become involved (for whatever reason).
But I reckon his site will claim it was them if anything does get done!

I think Martin does have ample time to include it in his next weekly e-mail.

The deadline isn't until the 6th December, which is just under a month away.

Now that he's been contacted by gdh82, I'm sure he'll make a more fuller feature in his next article, and ask people to respond to Ofcom.

Some people said about him being muted in his campaigns because of his TV appearances.  He didn't back down over his campaign for no finance adverts in front of kids on TV.  This was a campaign which ITV wouldn't have liked.  I think he works for both ITV and BBC.

On this site, we're focusing on 0870 issues.  On the MSE site, he's focusing on all sorts of consumer issues, and how big companies try and fleece those who are not wary, and he can't be an expert on every issue.

Now that he's been told about the OFCOM consultation, and has already been in touch with gdh82, he can hopefully give the issue more airing next week.

It was thanks to his site, that I got a cheaper deal with my car breakdown insurance, from a company that uses ONLY geo numbers I might add!!

Yes, I hope he does chamge his mind, but I'm not hopeful.  his last email did give the distinct impression that the Ofcom proposals will solve everything, and gave the feeling that we need do nothing (replying to the consultation never even mentioned!) and all will be 'put right' by the regulator.

If he REALLY feels this way he is living in cloud cuckoo land - I still get the feeling there are other reasons behind his prevarication.

I agree with you omy. I sense that there are reasons that he has done a "U" turn.

andy9 wrote on Nov 10^th, 2005 at 3:54pm:

I don't think we are entitled to prejudge what Ofcom's conclusions and actions will be. Perhaps there will be some overdue rather more widespread reconstruction of numbering systems, that lead to clearer understanding of charges. As for Martin, he has informed all his email subscribers; it is prominently featured on a number of threads on his forum, including links to here by people who are members of both. He is obviously very busy all the time, and as some people suggested to me after certain events, perhaps has become a victim of his own success and doesn't have enough time to devote to everything. Certainly I thought his article about roaming abroad with your mobile would have benefitted from more research time; he did modify it with more information from some members, but not as much as suggested; you can save much more. Perhaps he thinks he has done enough; or perhaps he too thinks that his average subscriber is of the low intelligence that people here have cliquishly suggested, and would not cope with the issues; perhaps he remembers other remarks ... Or perhaps after bringing it back to attention in this newsletter, he will develop the issue more in the near future.

The key point which most people in this thread seems to miss is that Ofcom now propose to retain 0845 numbers, which Ofcom encouraged the COI to get government departments to switch to from 0870, as a revenue share number excluded from BT Option 3 etc for about the next 3 to 4 years (i.e. at least 2 years longer than 0870 which are not themselves going to change for at least 21 months - that's 1 year from the date when Ofcom announces the clock starts ticking which is sure to be way into 2006).  Also Ofcom proposals do not stop the ever increasing percentage of calls made from mobile numbers to 0845 and 0870 continuing to charge them as a premium rate call class.  Of course if revenue share is ended then there should be no incentive at all for them to go on doing this but as the mobile phone companies operate in a cartel like manner, in respect of many business practices, the fact is that they will do it if they think they can get away with it and Ofcom allows them to.

So Ofcom's proposals are wholly deficient as most people in this forum well know (also allowing 0871 and 0844 to not be forced to move to 09 is a wholly deficient proposal) but Martin Lewis now portrays Ofcom as the heroes who have decided off their own bat to do sometihing.  Whereas they and their predecessor siblings OFTEL are in fact the villains who have allowed this scam to continue for years longer than it needed to and only virtually at the point of a gun are Ofcom now actually doing the minimum they think they can possibly get away with so as not to upset all their telco friends too much.

NGM, I do understand that : "... absolutely key to such an appointment that one should not appear to be too militant or hostile to Ofcom telecoms consumer." Only a representative of a telco surely would be hostile to the "Ofcom telecoms consumer"? I can't see how Martin Lewis would be hostile to the Ofcom telecoms consumer, since he always takes the stance of saving consumers money.

In any case what is the or an "Ofcom telecoms consumer"?

Hi omy,

The reason I was shown as an ex-member was that somehow I got ejected from the forum. I have now been reinstated though not with the same number of posts as I had when I was ejected. It seems I may have caused a problem with the forum SW?

dorf wrote on Nov 15^th, 2005 at 7:17pm:

NGM, I do understand that : "... absolutely key to such an appointment that one should not appear to be too militant or hostile to Ofcom telecoms consumer." Only a representative of a telco surely would be hostile to the "Ofcom telecoms consumer"? I can't see how Martin Lewis would be hostile to the Ofcom telecoms consumer, since he always takes the stance of saving consumers money. In any case what is the or an "Ofcom telecoms consumer"?

Sorry dorf this was my misspelling.  I meant to say that to get on the Ofcom Consumer Panel it is absolutely key that Ofcom does not perceive one to be too energetic or determined an existing telecoms consumer activist/campaigner.  Thus by saying nice things about Ofcom supposedly taking pro consumer action on 0870 Martin Lewis would hope to clearly improve his chances of being on good terms with Ofcom.

However Daniel has already told me that he is hoping to send an email about the Ofcom consultation document to a very big email circulation list (much bigger than just those signed up to this forum) in the course of the next few days.  Of course I never know how much cooperation there is between Messrs - and Lewis on such matters given that this site does have a very active sponsorship from the MSE site.  And at the moment that sponsorship does not appear to have been withdrawn. ;)

wrote on Nov 15^th, 2005 at 7:32pm:

Of course I never know how much cooperation there is between Messrs - and Lewis on such matters given that this site does have a very active sponsorship from the MSE site.  And at the moment that sponsorship does not appear to have been withdrawn. ;)

You don't make it very clear why you think these people should keep you informed about all their actions.

NGM, so you mean that Ofcom only want people on the Ofcom consumer panel who are not hostile to the current failures and outrageous decisions of Ofcom? In other words they want individuals who claim to be consumers, but consider Ofcom to be doing a good regulatory job?

I find it difficult to believe that there could be any such mythical people who are real citizen consumers! I suppose though on that basis if Martin Lewis has gone cold to his original position of intending to campaign against the scams and evidently navigated something of a "U" turn he might be a suitable candidate. I now therefore think I understand your point.

[Ofcom must find that there is an extreme difficulty in finding such candidates for their panel, unless they again get some of the employees of telcos to pose in their extra-mural role as "citizen consumers"?]

I note that the money saving expert, Martin, has included the following within his latest mass email:

<<
Annoyed with hideous 0870 numbers.... urgently have your say

Call to complain about a company on an 0870 number and you pay 8p a min and it gets a cut of the revenue. The telecoms regulator Ofcom's launched a(nother) consultation on this. The deadline for consumers to have their say is 6 Dec. Its suggestions are a big improvement, but it could go further. More Info: 0870 consultation

Links to: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=1149954
>>

This is exactly what we need. Many thanks to the MSE if he reads this. Given the wide email circulation, this could have a very positive effect for the campaign to get rid of the scam numbers.

I've got two copies - wonder why  ;)

andy9 wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2005 at 1:50am:

I've got two copies - wonder why  ;)

Only two!!! Not three, perhaps four?!!! :)

Quote:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=1149954 This is exactly what we need. Many thanks to the MSE if he reads this. Given the wide email circulation, this could have a very positive effect for the campaign to get rid of the scam numbers.

Great news!  As well as the widely circulated email, I see the above newly created thread (on 21/11) has already been viewed 1200+ times !

Thanks to MSE Martin for supporting the cause in this way!

idb wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2005 at 1:44am:

This is exactly what we need. Many thanks to the MSE if he reads this. Given the wide email circulation, this could have a very positive effect for the campaign to get rid of the scam numbers.

Same here, I agree - thanks.

bbb_uk wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2005 at 5:05pm:

idb wrote on Nov 23rd, 2005 at 1:44am: This is exactly what we need. Many thanks to the MSE if he reads this. Given the wide email circulation, this could have a very positive effect for the campaign to get rid of the scam numbers. Same here, I agree - thanks.

He doesn't highlight the danger of all the 0870 numbers turning into 0844 due to Ofcom's useless weaknesss in alllowing these numbers to continue at 5p per minute at all times outside ICTSIS control.  He also also doesn't highlight the insanity of allowing 0871 to continue to be used for 10p per minute revenue share when most people will just think "0870 and 0871 they just cost the same mate dun they".

So no I don't think Martin's articles is not good enough as he should have told people exactly what was wrong with the proposals and exactly how to condemn them and why they needed to be condemned.