Hi guys
I wonder if there is someone on here who could advise me.

I have just purchased a freetalk adaptor which gives me an extra telephone line and unlimited free calls to landlines (01 and 02) 24 X 7.  The yearly cost is £79.99 which is cheaper than a second line on its own and you can use quite a few extra services like call divert for free.  I need a second line so cancelling my existing arrangements will pay for this.  I also had a deal from tiscali whereby I took their broadband package and talk unlimited package and cancelling the telephone package will save me another £5 per month.  So I am quite pleased but out of interest does anyone know of a better deal than the freetalk?  

The call prices for Non Geographicals and mobile numbers could be better though.   Hence the real purpose of my post.  

Does anyone know of a better deal than 18185 for dialing mobiles (connection charge of 4p and then either 5p per minute weekdays or 2p per minute weekends with per second billing)?

What is the cheapest deal to mobile phones that does not involve paying a minimum connection charge?

What is the best deal for dialing Non Geographical number (0871, 0870 and 0845 mainly) as they seem to be everywhere these days.

Thanks for your help.

David

Do you still have your BT line as well as this 2nd line on your broadband?

If so, then you will need that, to make use of 18185, and other telcos, and also BT are the cheapest for 0870, and 0845 numbers.  The cheapest is of course, to look on this site for an alternative, and not do business with those companies, however it's not always possible.

I have heard bad reviews of freetalk, but there's probably a few satisfied customers out there.

As for mobiles, it might be easier to buy a contract on "3" which many places are giving almost 12 months free line rental.  You get 500 free minutes for anytime any network, plus 100 texts as well.  If you phone at least a few mobiles a week, this is better than making the calls on the landline even through 18185.  It also means you have the added benefit of making those free calls, whilst on the move, instead of a PAYG mobile which needs topping up.

Just be careful to cancel the contract after 12 months, if you don't think you're saving £30 per month, which is what you pay after 12 months are up.  After this time, you can of course get a new mobile, and there might be similair deals around.

Hi

Thanks for the reply and the suggestions.

Yes, I still have BT line as it is necessary for my broadband and the freecall adapter only works if it can plug into a broadband enabled line.

I would be interested to hear about any of those bad reviews - do you have any on-line references?

That could be a good suggestion to take out a mobile contract with anytime minutes - I will have to do my sums and check through my bill to see how many minutes per month I am paying for - it is quite a lot!!   I can't find that particular offer you were referring to  - most of the half price line rentals I can see are for 9 months but they are expecting an 18 month contract instead of 12.  Again have you got any online reference to that sort of offer as I would definitely be interested.

Thanks again for your help.

David

One of the downsides of Freetalk is for customer service you have to phone an 0871 number which is terminated in America.One of the numbers you are commenting about.?

Also you cant use it to dial 999,or if their is a power failure.Another point unless you purchase a special router you cant use it with a normal usb adsl modem (which a lot of people have) unless you have your pc/broadband on!

A cheaper way of dialling mobiles and ngn numbers depending on how many minutes you need (NOT 0871) is to get yourself a free o2 payg online sim.Top up each month by £10 choose the free 100 minute a month any time anywhere minute option,which allows you to call 0800/0845/0844/0870 and x-net mobiles,and you get to keep the £10 to spend as well.If you dont top up it every month,the next time you do the 100 minutes starts again.

Heres the current link for free o2 sims. http://www.o2promotions.co.uk/FreeSimsOct05/

Hi

I like the idea of the using the 02 mobile services - if it is cheaper but I need to research it a bit more.  I clicked on the link which is the order page for Sims but can’t find the details of that specific order.  I can find one saying free 300 texts if you spend £10 monthly though.  That is a good deal if you use texts but I only use about 3 or 4 a month - so if you have a link to this specific offer details of 100 minutes that would be great.

I spend £20+ per month at moment calling mobiles from the home phone, there are lots of calls (family of 5 all with mobiles) and some calls are short and some are long.

If the 02 offer allowed me to buy another 100 minutes with the £10 spend then that would be the ideal as that would work out at 200 mins for £10 or 5p a minute.  I am assuming these minutes are any time to any network.

18185 are also 5p a minute but with a 4p connection charge and in my case these connection charges would add up.  I think I would still register with 18185 for the longer calls though.

     18185 weekday            18185 weekend      02

1 min            9p            6p              5p
2 min            14p            8p            10p
3 min            19p            10p            15p
4 min            24p            12p            20p



It also depends on whether 02 bills in seconds or in minutes, so you can see why I would like read the specific offer details.

As for Freetalk, it only works on a broadband enabled telephone line.  So if it goes down or I need to telephone 999 I can use my main BT line.  I need a second line and I am saving the cost by cancelling my existing arrangements so this suits.  I also use wireless ADSL broadband/router (they can be had for about £40.00) so I have the means to plug the adapter in and use it when my PC is switched off.

Thanks again for all the help.

David

Hi.

When you get the free sim you are given the option of choosing the 100 x net minutes offer instead of  the 300 text messages offer. Order one its all explained in literature. It comes with a welcome book,which on the front says " Enjoy up to 300 free messages or 100 any UK network minutes every month.You choose".(As long as you top up by £10 of course.)

The t&c and charging can be found at www.o2.co.uk/terms/onlinepaygoinfo.

mmmm.  Can't quite find the call charges here - I know I am probably being stupid or blind - or both.  Also, if I am reading the t+c correctly then the first 3 minutes of the day cost 25p and the call allowance does not go towards that first 3 minutes of every day.  And that is the cost to landlines and 02 mobiles.  Somedays there will only be a few short calls so I am not sure that this package is going to help me.  I am coming round to think that it will be a lot easier to understand, and possibly cheaper, to stick to 18185.

Thanks for the help anyway.  I suppose the good thing about 18185 is that there is no contract and I can stop using it at any time if it proves too costly or a better deal appears - I will keep watching these pages.

Thanks for all the help anyway.

Regards.............David

No if you choose the 100 minute inclusive x-net minutes you get 100 minutes before the calling charges kick in,and you get to keep £10 to use.

If you bothered to order a sim,you will get full instructions explaining it,and then you could decide if it benefits you.After all its free to order and doesnt involve you in any contract.

If you are making peak 0845 calls and can dial 0844 access numbers at quoted rate.You might be better off using www.dialaround.co.uk 2p a minute 0844 access number.As for 0870, 18185 is the cheapest at 4p.

Thats if you cant find the alternative numbers on this site of course!!!

daities wrote on Nov 13^th, 2005 at 7:41pm:

I have just purchased a freetalk adaptor which gives me an extra telephone line and unlimited free calls to landlines (01 and 02) 24 X 7.  The yearly cost is £79.99 which is cheaper than a second line on its own and you can use quite a few extra services like call divert for free.  I need a second line so cancelling my existing arrangements will pay for this.  I also had a deal from tiscali whereby I took their broadband package and talk unlimited package and cancelling the telephone package will save me another £5 per month.  So I am quite pleased but out of interest does anyone know of a better deal than the freetalk?

You should have bought a Linksys PAP2NA unlocked voip adapater for your router for about £45 and then used the free voip calls service of say www.1899.com or www.voipcheap.co.uk  You can then use that hardware for several years without any ongoing monthly subscription cost to Dixons group.  Also the overseas call costs of Freetalk are not good as also with 084/7.

Personally I would have thought that going for www.tele2.co.uk uk's £7.50 per month deal for conventional telephone calls was a better bet.  You can still get a second voip line for incoming calls for free with www.sipgate.co.uk and that provides a voip number on your local exchange.  I haven't gone the voip route myself properly yet because what experience I have had at a software level (rather than using an ATA which is the only serious way to use voip) suggests call quality is suspect and there are a variety of technical glitches.  Of course if you need to move around though voip is great as you can take the calls anywhere on your voip NGN number with a notebook PC without paying call diversion fees.

See www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/default_ShopGroup.asp?ShopGroupID=77 for more info on the Linksys PAP2NA.  Make sure you don't get the locked version that works only with Vonage though (doesn't have the NA in the name).  I'm sure if you go back to Dixons or PC World just claiming that your Freetalk adapter doesn't work properly etc, etc that they will give you your money back without question.  They know this is a product that a lot of customers are going to struggle to make work.  Even if you are technically over the 7 or 28 days money back I'm sure they would at least let you buy something else to the same value.

Hi thanks for the reply - read through the details but not sure I fully understand - can you confirm that:

To use the free calls on www.1899.com or www.voipcheap.co.uk you need windows switched on?  (I want the phone available to the family to use whenever 24X7 so don't want anyone having to boot up the computer or have to leave it running all the time.)

However, if I was to buy a Linksys PAP2NA adapter, then I could plug this into my adsl/router adapter and only pay a one off cost for the equipment.  I would then obtain a telephone number for free from  www.sipgate.co.uk and allocate that to the adaptor (actually it looks like the adaptor has two ports so I could get a second free number and use it as a fax).   This means that my total costs for having two extra lines permanantly would be the initial one of cost for the Linksys PAP2NA adapter?

The best bet for free uk landline calls would be to continue with my broadband package deal - 1mb broadband for £14.99 or broadband and free calls for £19.99 combined so actual cost is £5.00.

If my understanding above is correct then I might very well go down that route.

Do you believe though that the quality of the calls over my 1mb broadband line might not be to good?

Thanks again for your reply - it is appreciated.

As far as the 02 sim card goes bigjohn is right - it is free to order one so why not and if I never use it then so what!

daities wrote on Nov 15^th, 2005 at 11:20pm:

To use the free calls on www.1899.com or www.voipcheap.co.uk you need windows switched on?  (I want the phone available to the family to use whenever 24X7 so don't want anyone having to boot up the computer or have to leave it running all the time.) However, if I was to buy a Linksys PAP2NA adapter, then I could plug this into my adsl/router adapter and only pay a one off cost for the equipment.  I would then obtain a telephone number for free from  www.sipgate.co.uk and allocate that to the adaptor (actually it looks like the adaptor has two ports so I could get a second free number and use it as a fax).   This means that my total costs for having two extra lines permanantly would be the initial one of cost for the Linksys PAP2NA adapter?

Yes basically the 1899.com or voipcheap.co.uk voip service can be successfully configured, I am told, if you plug the Linksys PAP2NA into a port on your router and it has two ports for two different voip incoming lines on top of your one conventional phone line.  If you have an ATA (which the Linksys PAP2NA is and the thing Dixons supply is but will only use the Dixons Voip service as it is a locked ATA like a locked mobile phone) then you can just plug your ordinary phone or DECT phones in as you no doubt currently do with the Dixons ATA box.  You don't need your computer on to make or receive calls.

But if Dixons are going to charge a rental for unlimited 01/02 calls then it should be less than what they are actually charging as for that money you can get unlimited 01/02 conventional phone calls without buying any new phone equipment.  And the customer service of their chosen voip operator seems to be notoriously crap.

You could either use voipcheap or 1899 for outgoing calls for so long as they remain free (which they won't forever) or use sipgate who don't charge a monthly rental and have more sustainable call prices.  Sipgate don't charge for the incoming voip geographic numbers.

Interesting discussion thread here.  If I needed two lines from home or made lots of outgoing voice calls I would get round to this stuff myself more urgently:-

http://www.voipuser.org/forum_topic_2340.html

Well NGM, you have convinced me.  The freetalk box has gone back to Dixons and I have ordered a Linksys PAP2NA unlocked voip adapater from broadbandstuff.  They are a about £5 more expensive than the link you provided to broadbandbuyer but they were the only people who I could find who had them in stock.  Along with the cost of the filters and delivery charge it works out at £59 - only £20 less than the freetalk box with free calls.

Still, I am thinking longer term here and now this is an unlocked box I won't be tied into freetalk next year.  It also means I can have a second line - not really necessary for the fax as we only ever receive and send a small number of faxes but at least I can leave the fax switched on its own line and not have to worry about it clashing with the voice line.  Sticking with my broadband/telephone package from tiscali it means I can have free calls for £5 per month which is as cheap as I have seen this anywhere and cheaper than the £6.99 freetalk want in future years ( although I would not mind betting that the cost of telephone calls will still fall a bit in coming years.)

If I use use voipcheap or 1899 for outgoing calls are you saying that my computer does not need to be turned on?  I will use the Linksys PAP2NA plugged directly into my router so the PC does not need to be switched on for that - but if I download the software for voipcheap or 1899 won't that sit on my PC and hence need to be turned on to use it?  Or will the Linksys PAP2NA handle all this once set up and hence be able to make the outgoing calls without being switched on.

Anyway thanks very much for the advice - fingers crossed that everything turns up and works as I am expecting it to.

Regards...............David

daities,

You don't need to have your computer on to make voip calls with the Linksys PAP2-NA that is the whole point of the device.

If you have DECT phones you can then plug your DECT base station into one of the two phone ports and if you use a doubler or whatever on the phone port you can also connect a normal phone I think.   Or you can put the normal phone into the second port and configure that for a different voip provider and incoming phone number (so two phone lines on top of your BT line).

The key think is that you are not under any 12 month contract with voipcheap or sipgate etc so if another voip provider becomes much cheaper you can sign with them instead.  And you can use a different voip provider for your outgoing calls compared to using sipgate for your incoming calls.  And you don't pay Dixons £90 a year times 10 years for the hardware......................

The thing with voip calls is that they don't always seem to be quite as good quality as old fashioned PSTN on occasion so it only makes sense to use it a lot if it is much cheaper.  But as you have seen this is not always so.  Using it for a second phone line though and saving yourself BT's rip off £126 a year line rental for a second line is obviously the key thing.

The Dixons product is locked down to only their phone provider and preconfigured so you don't have the hassle of setting that up but at the penalty of not being able to choose the cheapest voip provider.  If you get stuck with configuring the Linksys PAP2-NA I understand theer are clear instructions at www.sipgate.co.uk for the Sipura 2000 models which this is identical to as it is made by the same factory in China that make the Sipuras (it isn't supported by Linksys uk as this isn't an officially uk released product).  The manual for it is also downloadable off the websites of the companies selling the Sipura adapters.  I hope you ordered it with an connector for a uk phone socket that includes a ring capacitor or that the firm you bought it from may have given you one of these.

So the whole point of an ATA like this is so your voip phone works all the time without any computer being in service.  And as somebody else has just pointed out to me in another forum keeping a 100w computer base unit on 24/7 and 365 costs about £60 in electricity alone!!

Hi again NGM

I think I didnt explain myself very well.  I know that by plugging the adapter into my router rather than the pc I can use it 24X7 without having the pc switched on.

My question was more to do with voipcheap or 1899 for outgoing calls.  If I subscribed to those services and downloaded the software to my pc - would these services be available 24X7?  I take it from your reply that the answer is a definite yes.  

You also say "I hope you ordered it with an connector for a uk phone socket that includes a ring capacitor or that the firm you bought it from may have given you one of these"  Is this something different from the us to bt phone filter which I have bought for each of the ports on the linksys?

David

daities wrote on Nov 17^th, 2005 at 8:09pm:

My question was more to do with voipcheap or 1899 for outgoing calls.  If I subscribed to those services and downloaded the software to my pc - would these services be available 24X7?  I take it from your reply that the answer is a definite yes.

My understanding is that you can use voipcheap for outgoing calls without having your PC switched on.  That is the whole point of having the ATA.  You could use voipcheap with just the computer alone and a headset for outgoing calls without needing the ATA/Linksys PAP2-NA device.

voipcheap doesn't give you an incoming number.  But you can use Sipgate to give you a free voip geographic number for incoming calls on your local exchange.  You can also use Sipgate for outgoing calls but they charge 1p a minute instead of being free like voipcheap.  Since you can have Sipgate for the incoming calls at no fee and configure voipchheap for the outgoing calls you can have the best of both worlds without needing to have your PC switched on for any phone calls.  voipcheap don't offer an incoming phone number service as yet.

Well that's the theory but I haven't made the leap yet.  So good luck with it all.

I think avoiding a long term contractual relationship with Dixons for your phone calls has to be good as in my experience Dixons always have shocking phone service and in any case the Freetalk customer service is in the USA and they don't seem to understand many aspects of the uk phone system.

VoipCheap do now offer a free incoming phone number in the 056 range. This number is treated the same as an 01 and 02 number by BT. Just fire up VoipCheap and click the link at the bottom to get your free number.

alanenglish wrote on Nov 18^th, 2005 at 2:30pm:

VoipCheap do now offer a free incoming phone number in the 056 range. This number is treated the same as an 01 and 02 number by BT. Just fire up VoipCheap and click the link at the bottom to get your free number.

I hadn't realised that.  Trust Ofcom to allow 05 to now be used for freephone and geographically priced calls.  They really are quite useless.

However I would much prefer to have a geographic 01/02 voip based number as offered by Sipgate to give people the impression they are still calling a normal uk number rather than one that may cost them extra.

Yes, I agree and I intend to take a couple of 01 numbers from sipgate.

daities wrote on Nov 18^th, 2005 at 7:54pm:

Yes, I agree and I intend to take a couple of 01 numbers from sipgate.

Daities I just discovered that the Sipura SPA 3000 has the additional feature of letting you log into it via voip from your office or hotel room or holiday apartment (if it has a broadband connection) to make calls at your home phone providers rates (i.e. using your 01/02 all calls plan etc if you have one) or of calling it on a landline to make outgoing voip calls.  But then it does cost nearly 90 quid to buy.  You may still be in your 7 day right of return period though although you would obviously lose the outbound and return postage.

See www.itreviews.co.uk/hardware/h731.htm,  www.voipuser.org/forum_post_8091.html and www.voipuser.org/review_8.html

Of course in the long run all phone calls will be voip only but that must be 5 to 10 years away.

Looks too complicated for me and the user reviews seem to bear this out with a constant criticism of lack of documentation.  Also, it only seems to have one port for a telephone while the linksys has 2 so I can use one for the fax machine (a real bit of overkill mind you bearing in mind the number of faxes we actually receive and send but it will look impressive!!)  I also don't see much need for remote log in to use the calls at providers rates especially as I would have to be somewhere with my laptop hooked up to make the call.

And apart from anything else I need to get a number soon that I can start to use and tell others about to replace my cancelled second line.  As long as the linksys works the way we are expecting I will be happy!!!

Thanks for keeping me in mind though and it is also nice to see what other ideas there are about for using these boxes.

Regards................David

It does look a little fiddly and it can be a mistake to spend too much on these devices as they are so often superseded by new technology in the fullness of time.

Also a lot more people seem to have the linksys PAP2-NA so there is rather more available on the web forums about how to set them up.

So far as fax is concerned my fax machine broke a while back but I have an 0870 number :o that lets me receive a fax as an email.  This seems to be one of those few cases where a legitimate extra service is being provided on an 0870 number, except of course that I should be the person paying for it and not the person who needs to send me a fax.  But nobody will give you such a facility on a geographic number. >:(

 :'(

http://www.o2promotions.co.uk/FreeSimsOct05/

The offer is now closed - and Ive missed it!

You have to be quick. ;)  But dont worry  another one will be along soon!


Hold on this link still seems to work
http://www.o2promotions.co.uk/FreesimsOct05/index.aspx :)

:)

Great.

Many thanks

Rather than continue with Voip Cheap you could take a look at SipDiscount (another Finarea entity) which is designed to be set up on an ATA - like your new PAP2 and doesn't require to have the PC on.  The list of free destinations is actually longer than VC. I have been using it for two months with no serious problems (apart from the occasional need for a redial). www.sipdiscount.com