This is my first attempt to contribute to an online forum so please bear with me if go off the rails.

Just want to make the point that a big additional disadvantage of 0870/0845 numbers is that they are not accessible from outside the UK. So when travelling abroad it is impossible to phone a UK business or public organization which has never published a geographical contact phone number. This is at best an absurd and unnecesssary inconvenience, and at worst a serious obstacle to international telecommunications

The reason the company I work has an 0870 number is that we can relocate the office if needed urgently to anywhere in the UK, as required by our regulating body, and also we provide a service for which we do not charge.
All of the income from the 0870 and another source (minimal) keeps us afloat, and me in a job.

For companies such as sky or the big nationals / institutionals this is just a money maker regardless, thats why they keep you hanging on with the "your call is important to us" for 30 mins.

just my 2p worth

Thanks, Calas, for your post which got me thinking......why not ask for people's

TOP 5 Objections to NGNs
...this could prove a simple way of gathering together the key issues for other newcomers and relative newbie's like me!  Good or bad idea, here's mine...

1. WAY overpriced (calling 0870 from a landline can be eight times more expensive)
2. NGNs are NOT included in inclusive call plans (where you've ALREADY PAID for unlimited calls!)
3. Companies are ridiculously reluctant to give out the geographic equivalent
4. Massively mis-advertised regarding cost of these calls
5. Certain companies are making a packet out of keeping us waiting on the phone!!!!!

calas wrote on Nov 21^st, 2005 at 7:09pm:

This is my first attempt to contribute to an online forum so please bear with me if go off the rails. Just want to make the point that a big additional disadvantage of 0870/0845 numbers is that they are not accessible from outside the UK. So when travelling abroad it is impossible to phone a UK business or public organization which has never published a geographical contact phone number. This is at best an absurd and unnecesssary inconvenience, and at worst a serious obstacle to international telecommunications

I have to disagree with you.

I have an 0870 number for personal use, as I move location several times a day (and I don't receive revenue share on it)... I even route it to my mobile so my family can call me at a cheaper rate then if they called the mobile number directly. I've also dialled my own 0870 number from outside the UK and got through without any problem.

I receive calls on my 0870 number from the USA, Europe, Asia and Australia/New Zealand without any problem.

When I was abroad this year in the Far East, I had to telephone the Co-Operative bank. I got through to their 0845 number without any problem...from outside the UK.

gdh82 wrote on Nov 21^st, 2005 at 9:48pm:

Thanks, Calas, for your post which got me thinking......why not ask for people's TOP 5 Objections to NGNs ...this could prove a simple way of gathering together the key issues for other newcomers and relative newbie's like me!  Good or bad idea, here's mine... 1. WAY overpriced (calling 0870 from a landline can be eight times more expensive) 2. NGNs are NOT included in inclusive call plans (where you've ALREADY PAID for unlimited calls!) 3. Companies are ridiculously reluctant to give out the geographic equivalent 4. Massively mis-advertised regarding cost of these calls 5. Certain companies are making a packet out of keeping us waiting on the phone!!!!!

With reference to your point 3:
Not all NGN numbers have a terminating POTS number. Some will terminate at a Switch and be forwarded over something like LAN or VoIP telephony. Therefore, in some cases, you can't have a geographic number if they don't have one at the back of their NTS number.

With reference to your point 4:
If all these companies made as much money as has been guessed, they would setup their own network and number ranges and take the whole amount from BT.

Thanks mintyboy for your comments too (which I didn't read until after I completed my post!).  

Perhaps we should also include a Top 5 Good Reasons for NGNs ?

Other more knowledgeable members of the forum will put me right on this but some of these reasons my actually prove to be myths!!  For example, the ability to relocate can just as easily be achieved through 0800 numbers I'm sure.  As for revenue sharing being the funder of the service, could you tell me more about the nature of this service?

Thanks for your 2p worth nevertheless - there's alway two sides to an argument...

Quote:

Not all NGN numbers have a terminating POTS number. Some will terminate at a Switch and be forwarded over something like LAN or VoIP telephony. Therefore, in some cases, you can't have a geographic number if they don't have one at the back of their NTS number.

Thanks bloggs for that.  I honestly didn't know that there sometimes isn't a geographic number that is being transferred to -I did admit above  to my newbie status ;).  In your opinion, what proportion of companies/organisations (roughly speaking) would you say this applies to ?  

bloggs wrote on Nov 21^st, 2005 at 9:53pm:

I have to disagree with you. I have an 0870 number for personal use, as I move location several times a day (and I don't receive revenue share on it)... I even route it to my mobile so my family can call me at a cheaper rate then if they called the mobile number directly. I've also dialled my own 0870 number from outside the UK and got through without any problem. I receive calls on my 0870 number from the USA, Europe, Asia and Australia/New Zealand without any problem. When I was abroad this year in the Far East, I had to telephone the Co-Operative bank. I got through to their 0845 number without any problem...from outside the UK.

There is no guarantee that calls to 0870 and other rip-off prefix codes can be terminated from overseas. Just because you can make a call from a particular foreign network does not mean that they are universally terminated. Ofcom knows this and does nothing about the difficulty. 0870 and the like are nothing but legalized extortion sanctioned by the ineffective regulatory body.

gdh82 wrote on Nov 21^st, 2005 at 9:59pm:

Thanks mintyboy for your comments too (which I didn't read until after I completed my post!).   Perhaps we should also include a Top 5 Good Reasons for NGNs ? Other more knowledgeable members of the forum will put me right on this but some of these reasons my actually prove to be myths!!  For example, the ability to relocate can just as easily be achieved through 0800 numbers I'm sure.  As for revenue sharing being the funder of the service, could you tell me more about the nature of this service? Thanks for your 2p worth nevertheless - there's alway two sides to an argument...

Sorry, but I have no idea.  :-[

Quote:

Not all NGN numbers have a terminating POTS number. Some will terminate at a Switch and be forwarded over something like LAN or VoIP telephony. Therefore, in some cases, you can't have a geographic number if they don't have one at the back of their NTS number.

Thanks anyway, bloggs.

Does anyone else have any idea on this ?  Roughly speaking, how many companies do not have a geographic equivalent and are therefore justified in not providing one?  Is this the exception or is it more commonplace ?

Any responses appreciated...

Does anyone else have any idea on this ?  Roughly speaking, how many companies do not have a geographic equivalent and are therefore justified in not providing one?  Is this the exception or is it more commonplace ?

Well, although they may have a point that 0870 numbers don't route to a geo equivilent, they are not justified in saying there isn't one.

If they use VOIP technology, they made a choice with their telco to use 0870, because it is cheaper for them.  It is possible to use VOIP on a geo number, but they chose not to, because 0870 will make them money, whereas geo will just route the call.

And if they're expecting calls from abroad, then once again if people cannot call from some networks, it leaves the company not receiving the call.

I had to call a company today, and using this site found their geo number.  The geo number listed went through to the wrong department, and was asked to call their 0845 number.  I explained that it's difficult to call these numbers from abroad (note that I didn't say I was abroad, just that it's difficult to call from abroad) and instead I was just passed through a few wrong departments before being connected, all for the cost of using my free minutes, but wasting a fair bit of staff time at the company I was calling.

If more people were prepared to waste time like this, then companies would discover it's cheaper to give out a geographic number and forgo the revenue share, than have their staff tied up by people calling the wrong number.