Has anyone noticed how BT are charging their customers who dial the alternative Geographic Dial -Up number for Internet  access posted on this site at the same rate as 0870 numbers.
  It's a geographic Birimingham number 0121...  but comes up on the bill as about 90p for an hour (ie 1.5p/min) at weekends.     It's also Marked as 'National'.
   All other geographic calls are showing as 3p/Hour, for the first Hour.

So beware anyone who thinks they're saving by avoiding the published 0845 LoCall Number, you're actually paying ~50% more.

Now I know you people will say why on earth are you using BT, but that's not the point.  

Anyone relying on numbers from This site or these threads :-

here
&
here
&

Dave wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2005 at 8:51pm:

A couple of threads for you here and here.

for Dial-Up Internet Access  BEWARE !

ye gods - so where does BT identify such differential charging in its website?
Come on Ofcom.
Yours sincerely,
a concerned citizen-consumer.

ps - and if BT can do that perhaps it should have taken a more (pro)active role in stopping dialling scams. :(

joe65 wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2005 at 3:27pm:

Has anyone noticed how BT are charging their customers who dial the alternative Geographic Dial -Up number for Internet  access posted on this site at the same rate as 0870 numbers.   It's a geographic Birimingham number 0121...  but comes up on the bill as about 90p for an hour (ie 1.5p/min) at weekends.     It's also Marked as 'National' rate.    All other geographic calls are at 3p/Hour, for the first Hour.

Alternative number for which company?

Presumably it shows as a 0121 number on the bill?
Doesn't that merit a strong complaint to BT that they are not charging you at the published rate for a geo number?
On the other hand, dial-up internet access is, by definition, usually revenue sharing, so you can't really expect it at standard geo rates.
But any literature should still make the charge clear.

That's for BT Internet   0121 4789200    ( 0845 7560000 ).
which shows on the bill as :-
     Birmingham    0121 478 9200   National
instead of another eg.    
     Birmingham    0121 478 5280   Eve/Weekend.

While I'm not overly bothered,    barring the number from being  dialled would have been more 'transparent' than the clandestine charging  which was really tricky to spot.

Ah, so have we (well, joe65) uncovered some small print whereby BT can charge National Rate, but actually chooses to charge what we know as normal 01 and 02 for most 01 and 02 numbers?
So this meets the rule if not the spirit of the law:-[ (I hear the Spirit of Numbers Past clanking away in the background :o)

No,  I haven't found anything justifying it.

Tanllan wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2005 at 3:58pm:

ye gods - so where does BT identify such differential charging in its website?

Here

Some threads are in the requests section. One is land lines for ISPs.

Thanks Dave,   This is really cute of them.
Here

If there's such a number they don't yet know about they get you to type it into their database, rather than publishing a list.  

Where is this heading.   Now that Geographic numbers have started falling out of these call discount packages, what will end first 08xx numbers , or the discount packages themselves ?

The BT page says:


Quote:

The zero pence per minute call rates available with BT Together Options apply to voice calls only.

So they could start charging for fax calls at a different rate then!

OK, I won't try VoIP or VoB then. :)

joe65 wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2005 at 3:27pm:

Has anyone noticed how BT are charging their customers who dial the alternative Geographic Dial -Up number for Internet access posted on this site at the same rate as 0870 numbers.

Not being too picky but when I tried it and checked, they were charging it at the same rate as the 0845 number (or Non Discounted Local Rate as explained on their website) !!

On the bill they show this as a National call, and NOT NATIONAL RATE !! Also when I asked them about this, they advised me the same would happen if any Geo number for ISP's on their list was called.

Funnily enough, if you check in the BT Together ISP and numbers exclusion list, the Bt Internet number 0121 478 9200 was not found, so read into that what you will !
:o

Sorry if this will sound unsympathetic, but whatever you think of the policy [I disagree myself], this really isn't news.

It is quite clearly stated by BT that internet access is specifically excluded from free calls within the various inclusive packages. And when they transferred everyone to Option 1 and gave details of 2 and 3, it was explicit then too.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if some other phone companies have very similar conditions for numbers they recognise, though I don't want to be countered for every example

Without going back right now to re-read the threads on here that discuss these access numbers, my memory is it was reasonably clear what the motivation was for finding these numbers - to use them with 18866 or similar, or in inclusive packages with providers that did not exclude them. And nobody ever suggested using BT.

Try using 1899 instead, and you may find that some but not all numbers are blocked by them too.

DaveM wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2005 at 9:26pm:

Not being too picky but when I tried it and checked, they were charging it at the same rate as the 0845 number (or Non Discounted Local Rate as explained on their website) !!

It says on the page you linked to:

Quote:

Local and national geographic numbers used to dial up ISPs (i.e. numbers that commence with 01 or 02) are not included in the zero pence per minute call elements of any BT Together option. If you do dial-up to these numbers, the appropriate BT Together pence per minute rate will apply.

That suggests to me that they are charged at 3p/min and 1p/min as this is the chargable rate. But 'National call' (ie a geographical one) on BT Together is the same as a local one! Thus, all geographicals are the same. So how come geographical ISP numbers (on that list) are charged at non-discounted rates?

So what rate does BT Together charge for calls to 0845 ISPs? Whilst evening and weekend rates are the same, at 1p/min, on 'discounted' and non-discounted tariffs, discounted ones charge 3p/min in the daytime whereas non-discounted ones charge 3.95p/min to 0845. Or does the fact that there isn't an exclusion list for 0845 mean that we assume that it's a standard 0845 charge?


DaveM wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2005 at 9:26pm:

On the bill they show this as a National call, and NOT NATIONAL RATE !! Also when I asked them about this, they advised me the same would happen if any Geo number for ISP's on their list was called.

But isn't this fair enough as pay as you go ISPs make money from their 0845 numbers?


DaveM wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2005 at 9:26pm:

Funnily enough, if you check in the BT Together ISP and numbers exclusion list, the Bt Internet number 0121 478 9200 was not found, so read into that what you will !  :o

But...

Quote:

The number 01214789200 was found in the ISP exclusion list

You must enter it without spaces, as it says in the text above the box you enter the number in. Would it not have been possible to devise it so that it can handle spaces? ::)

We've been using the geographic number (rather than 0845 one) for connecting to
Tesco internet. Last month they billed us for using it so we phoned to complain
(on option 3) and they issued a refund.
This month the same happened again but they are refusing to give a refund pointing
out that calls to internet dial up sites (non-voice) are excluded as free calls even if
using a geographic number.

Any advice on if we can challenge this or is it just a case of read the small print?

cheers,
Ronnie



Edited by bbb_uk: Slight amendment to the title thread

I'm afraid BT are correct.  I think their t&c (as well as other teleco's) do state that calls to non-voice (ie data calls) are excluded from inclusive mins.

You could try other teleco's unlimited packages instead in a hope that they haven't realised yet.

I know for a fact Euphony haven't realised yet and I believe Primus haven't caught on yet neither.

The thing is that eventually they will catch on simply because if you're on the internet for hours at a time or very regular then teleco's (especially BT) will have monitoring equipment of somekind that possibly checks that the number that appears to be very popular (ie an internet geographical number) is in fact a voice call, or a data call.  I believe this is what has happened now with BT realising that the number you've been using is actually a data call (ie internet type call).

craigmarloch wrote on Aug 11^th, 2006 at 11:53am:

We've been using the geographic number (rather than 0845 one) for connecting to Tesco internet. Last month BT billed us for using it so we phoned to complain (on option 3) and they issued a refund. This month the same happened again but they are refusing to give a refund pointing out that calls to internet dial up sites (non-voice) are excluded as free calls even if using a geographic number. Any advice on if we can challenge this or is it just a case of read the small print? cheers, Ronnie=9]

Use 1899 then.  3p per call to any UK 01 or 02 number regardless of duration.

Heinz wrote on Aug 11^th, 2006 at 7:12pm:

Use 1899 then.  3p per call to any UK 01 or 02 number regardless of duration.

But how are such calls routed? Often they are sent half way round the world. With voice calls you can hardly tell, but an internet connection is likely to be unreliable or even not work at all - at least that's my experience of trying to use dial-up via a prefix (in my case I was trying to dial an 0845 number more cheaply during the daytime).

If you know a technically-minded person with broadband, perhaps you could persuade them to set up a modem to accept incoming calls. Then you phone them to use the internet! The impact on their broadband speed would be negligible, but the disadvantage is their phoneline would be tied up!

Ultimately, if you are going to be online for a significant length of time during the day, you should get broadband, or at least subscribe to an 0800 ISP.

I contacted BT a while ago about the disappearance of the page that allows you to enter a 01/02 phone to see if it is excluded from the 'discounted' part of BT Together tariffs. I have just received a response saying that it is now back and can be found at:

http://www.numbereligibility.bt.com/

Has anyone tried using 18185 to call one of the dialup ISP numbers?  Do they perhaps block the number entirely?