Well what a useless bare minimum response. It took them 3 months to respond as well!!!


Dear

I write in connection with your recent [sic] request for information dated 17th October 2005 concerning the provison of a 0870/0845 telephone service to Dyfed Powys Police.

....
1.      Do you use 0870 telephone numbers? NO
2.      Do you use 0845 numbers? YES
2.1.      And if so, what are the equivalent geographical numbers? STD codes for the counties of pembrokeshire. caredigion, powys and Carmarthenshire.
2.2.      What revenue do you receive per minute and in total from the use of 0845 numbers? Section43(2) refusal.
2.3.      Are you aware of the revenue collected by your telecom provider, from your callers? Aware Yes.
2.4.      Have you considered the revised COI1 guidelines? YES
2.4.1.      If so, what conclusions did you come to? They dont apply to the police.
2.5.      Do you realise that a call to local number costs the same as a call to a national number when made from the same location for the majority of telephone subscribers? Costs vary according to the telephony options taken by each individual - a matter of individual choice.
2.6.      Do you realise that 0845 numbers now offer no cost advantage to callers, irrespective of their location, only disadvantages? Subjective opinion.
2.7.      Are you aware of the cost implications to your callers, when using 0845 numbers, including calls from mobile phones? Costs vary according to the telephony options taken by each individual - a matter of individual choice.
2.8.      How much does it cost to call an 0845 number:
2.8.1.      In the Daytime.
2.8.2.      In the Evening.
2.8.3.      At Weekends.
Costs vary according to the telephony options taken by each individual - a matter of individual choice.

3.      What companies operate your:
3.1.      0845 telephone numbers.  OPAL Telecom
3.2.      0870 telephone numbers.
3.3.      Telephone switch equipment  Internally Managed

4.      I would also like all the internal documents, memos; meetings; discussions and any information relating to the tender of the 0870, 0845 numbers.
Refused because the data is contained in a 10mb file. Consider the time would be 24 hours to determine the relevance.
---

I will be asking for an internal review and will be making a complaint based on the fact it took 3 months to respond to, and the fact that other forces have released the tender document.

2.1 is great!

The problem with FOI requests, it seems, is that you only get one go at framing your questions.

If the public body then finds a weasel worded way of replying, or just lies, you can't ask again with better wording - they slap it down as vexatious or already in the public domain, even if they haven't given a proper answer.

Parts of the above reply are surprisingly similar to Herts' initial responses, a combination of acting dumb and just being too dense to understand the question!

Having my time again, instead of using questions like 2.5 to 2.8, I would quote the pricing myself and then ask them to explain who benefits. (I'm not having a go, by the way, just musing on how better to get them to answer a straight question)

Now I have to get round the Information Commissioner, who is apparently giving tips to the police on how to fob off people like me.

I know police are dishonest and lazy -  I didn't realise they were so blatant about it!

An update on this...
After that answer, I asked for an internal review.

13th Jan 2006
"A target date of three months to complete the review is indicated and every effort will be made to have a response to you by the 13th April 2006, however, if it becomes clear that the review will not be completed by this date you will be contacted. Your appeal of the 16th December in respect of issue 3 is being dealt with as per our e-mail and letter of 23rd December 2005."

23rd Dec 2005  
"The review will be conducted in accordance to Dyfed Powys Police' review procedure and every effort will be made to have a response to you by the 16 March 2006,"

16th March Came and went with no response, I sent an email on the 18th accusing them of incompance and discrimination against English requesters. (I had a fellow councillor in wales do an FOI on them which was answered straight away in 14 days).

18th March - Email from them
"With reference to your e-mail of  the 18 March 2006.   The comments of which are noted.   With reference to the first part of your e-mail,  your concerns will be brought to the attention of the relevant department.  With reference to the second part of your e-mail, your e-mail of the 13 January 2006 and further explanation provided  by you has resulted in a complete review of the information asked for.  This part of your complaint will be dealt with within the next three weeks and regrettably the delay issue has
been included within this review to respond as mentioned.   The new target date is the 16th April as conveyed in the e-mail of the 13 January 2006.   I regret the further delay in providing a response and any inconvenience caused."

Debby Jones
Information Officer
Direct Line: 01267 226596 (isnt that nice a direct line)

Am currently making a complaint to the IPCC and dyfeds DPS

Ive had the Internal Review notice and they have now disclosed the GN.

0845 330 2000 - 01267 230420
I wonder if this works....
I will post the full letter once ive put it thru an OCR scanner, as I havent recived a copy by email.


This will prob be my last FOI, due to recent comments from members on this site. I have spent a lot of time chasing up these FOI's and have sent no less then 35 FOI's since 2005. If all I get back is abuse then I cant see why im bothering.

please sir you keep doing what you know on the foi s  as some of us are not as good at it as you  and at the end off the day ::-
sticks and stones may break my bones but word may never hurt me  :)
dont let them get to you!

mc661 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2006 at 4:23pm:

Ive had the Internal Review notice and they have now disclosed the GN. 0845 330 2000 - 01267 230420 I wonder if this works.... I will post the full letter once ive put it thru an OCR scanner, as I havent recived a copy by email. This will prob be my last FOI, due to recent comments from members on this site. I have spent a lot of time chasing up these FOI's and have sent no less then 35 FOI's since 2005. If all I get back is abuse then I cant see why im bothering.

Brilliant. Well done.
Please ignore the unjustified carping. Some of us have neither time nor expertise - and can only admire and thank those like you.

Tanllan wrote on Apr 15^th, 2006 at 10:35pm:

Brilliant. Well done. Please ignore the unjustified carping. Some of us have neither time nor expertise - and can only admire and thank those like you.

Seconded  :)

~ Edited by Dave: Quote box corrected

mc661 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2006 at 4:23pm:

This will prob be my last FOI, due to recent comments from members on this site. I have spent a lot of time chasing up these FOI's and have sent no less then 35 FOI's since 2005. If all I get back is abuse then I cant see why im bothering.

Who was it that upset you then?  I seem to remember you saying the forum management had a go at you??

Far from giving up now that we know NGN overcharging won't be stopped by Ofcom its surely more important than ever that we keep up the efforts to obtain the GN alternatives.

I bet Daniel was really pleased about Wednesday's OfcoN announcement. ;)

I am a new member and an ex [sic]  dishonest and lazy cop--now retired by the way. Have also been in contact with my MP re 0845 numbers and police and also received via him a totally evasive reply from my local force. Believe it or not the rot set in the police when they changed from being a Police Force to a Police Service[or lack of] Extensive replacement of 1 police constable[ I was never an Officer!] by more than one  low paid untrained and therefore incompetent civilian has led to empire building and a total lack of sense of duty. If you have access to any free legal services I would consider Malfeasance in Public Office as the way to attack these Empire Builders.
I understand the frustration of dealing with incompetents, but having worked in the system I would say keep on at it. The more refusals and lies told, the less chance of later claiming " I/We are sorry that I/We made a mistake"
Below is my reply to Ofsted
Dear Sirs,
I and many of my friends all regard the 0845 and 0870 system to be a blatant con trick.
I will never phone these numbers. If any company wants my business and cannot be contacted by a normal geographic number then that company loses my custom.
Also, last year after the London bombings the police had the nerve to give an 0870 number as a hotline. I immediately protested about this to my MP Mr William Hague. I had previously told him that my own local police force North Yorkshire now had so called
Lo-Call numbers and that if I needed  to contact them I would phone 999. If it was not an emergency I would not phone them. So all the police requests for witness information or intelligence would be lost. I added that to phone my local police station would cost more than phoning my brother in Sussex!!! To date police replies regarding their use of these numbers has been evasive.
My landline phone contract allows me to make unlimited calls to any UK geographic number. It does not include 0845 or 0870 numbers.
How many vulnerable people, low wage earners or pensioners do not realise they have to pay over the odds for these calls?
Why are we charged for using 0800 numbers from mobile phones? I recently returned from New Zealand where 0800 is free even on mobiles. Don’t Phone companies make enough profit?
The Say No To 0870 website is much used by myself and friends. We also pass on the information whenever possible. Congratulations to the creator.
No wonder that this once great country is sinking into the mire when Companies, Government Organisations and even the Police Con us all with this blatant profiteering!!!

Mr C J Bailey, North Yorkshire

P.S. I am not anti police or state. I served 14 years in the Army and 16 years in the police and am now retired on pension. However I resent being conned.