QUOTE.....

Looking for a great value phone service? Then switch to Post Office™ HomePhone now for cheaper line rental than BT, great call rates and fantastic service with no minimum contract. If you switch to Post Office™ HomePhone before 31st March, they'll give you £50 off your bill as well as getting £15 GreasyPalm Cashback!

END QUOTE.............

So for those interested in switching, it might be worthwhile registering with greasypalm.co.uk to get an extra benefit.
They do other rewards, but to write about them might cause some to think I'm affilliated. Have a look and judge for yourself, but the £15 is not to be ignored.

£50 credit is including vat and will be applied as two credits of £25 on your SECOND and THIRD bills.

mc661 wrote on Feb 16^th, 2006 at 2:33am:

£50 credit is including vat and will be applied as two credits of £25 on your SECOND and THIRD bills.

First Bill at 0 months and second and third bills sent at 3 and 6 months.  Then you can leave for the next line rental offer with another company. ;)

isnt it 12 month contract?

mc661 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2006 at 12:58am:

isnt it 12 month contract?

No.  You only have to stay for 6 months to get the £50 back off the line rental.  12 months would be TalkTalk and the money back with them is only against calls and not line rental.

See www.postoffice.co.uk/portal/po/content1?catId=19300217&mediaId=22900487


Quote:

offer Terms & Conditions This offer applies to new Post Office™ HomePhone customers only A total of £50 will be credited to every customers’ bill if the date of application is between the dates 1st January and 31st March 2006 The offer closes at midnight on 31st March 2006 £25 will be credited to the second bill (+3 mnths after go live) and the third bill (+6 mnths after go live) Customers are free to leave the service at any time, however the credits will only be applied if the customer has an active Post Office™ HomePhone account on the dates of their second and third bill The £50 offer includes VAT This offer is limited to one per account only Existing Post Office™ HomePhone customers cannot cancel and reapply to get the new offer Standard residential line required Standard Post Office™ HomePhone terms and conditions apply.

This new offer of £50 sounds good, and might give it a go, depending on who I go with for my new ISP after I finally managed to ditch NTL freedom.  Currently top of the list is V21, but they insist on setting up a CPS service meaning no to homephone.

I do however have mobiles with free minutes, and heavily rebated line rental (to the extent that I'm being paid to have the phone!!) meaning I don't need to make calls with Homephone at all.

I recently signed up with BT privacy to get caller display for free.  I assume that the post office won't be able to offer this (for free), but for the sake of getting £50, it won't matter too much.

And the offer of £50 has been around for a while for Royal Mail employees, as we were told about it I think in September, and I was tempted to sign up.  I saw the current leaflet which is displayed where I work, and there's no additional offer above what everyone else gets now, so I might as well sign up through a cashback site and get the extra £15!!

Shiggaddi wrote on Feb 18^th, 2006 at 10:44pm:

I recently signed up with BT privacy to get caller display for free.  I assume that the post office won't be able to offer this (for free), but for the sake of getting £50, it won't matter too much.

I can confirm I called and asked them about this about 3 weeks ago, and no it isn't free (about £3.50 I think, from memory), despite the fact that their leaflet says that all calling features are the same price as BT!

Also, you can't use 1899, etc. if you go with post office Homephone.

trevord wrote on Feb 19^th, 2006 at 12:47am:

Also, you can't use 1899, etc. if you go with post office Homephone.

The general evidence from other members is that you can use 1899 or 18185 with the Post Office HomePhone, especially if you are already a subscriber to these services when you join them.  They reserve the right to stop you using these services but so far they have not done so.  You could always cancel with the Post Office if they did this as there is no one year contract.

Anyhow I am buying a Sipura SPA 3000 for £64 inc VAT and delivery from www.microwarehouse.co.uk and plan to start making my calls with www.voipcheap.co.uk, which will save lots more money.  The Post Office can't control your Voip providers, the only person who can do this would be your broadband ISP and only someone like AOL or Wanadoo might have the nerve to try to force you to use their Voip offering.

I would find it a little annoying if the PostOffice blocked 18185 as they are the cheapest way to make mobile and 0870 calls.  And there is no voip equivalent to 18185.

wrote on Feb 19^th, 2006 at 1:03pm:

I would find it a little annoying if the PostOffice blocked 18185 as they are the cheapest way to make mobile and 0870 calls.  And there is no voip equivalent to 18185.

Why Haven't they done it yet then , Eah ?
I would fire the Post Master General's  Director of manipulating the tarrifs., for not keeping an eye, at weekends.

wrote on Feb 19^th, 2006 at 1:03pm:

trevord wrote on Feb 19th, 2006 at 12:47am: Also, you can't use 1899, etc. if you go with post office Homephone. The general evidence from other members is that you can use 1899 or 18185 with the Post Office HomePhone ...

Apologies if I was wrong - I was just going on what they told me.  :-[

joe65 wrote on Feb 19^th, 2006 at 8:54pm:

Why Haven't they done it yet then , Eah ? I would fire the Post Master General's  Director of manipulating the tarrifs., for not keeping an eye, at weekends.

It is Ofcom who decided that in the name of EU competition legislation (the claim of their senior wholesale line rental policy people to me) that the Wholesale Line Rental specification must include the ability to block the use of carriers via the Indirect access code and a denial of CPS routing with other carriers (because unlike BT other phone carriers are not seen to have significant market power so do not have to open up their service to give easy access to competitor call carriers).  The main problem though is the extortionate charge of around £28 per quarter which BT is allowed by Ofcom to charge TalkTalk, PostOffice etc for supplying Wholesale Line Rental rather than a charge which genuinely reflected BT Wholesale's true costs (as opposed to the creative accounting it has presented to Ofcom and which its Ofcom buddies have as usual just signed off) such as £5.50 to £11.00 per quarter (that my gas, water and electricity companies all charge me as a retail customer for quarterly line rental).  BT bizarrely seems to expect that its customers must actually fund all its future capital investment program in its network for them via its BT Option 1 standing charge line rental, rather than its shareholders or loans from banks funding this investment, which is the normal method in business.

Anyhow coming back to the main issue it seems that the Post Office is not too keen on taking a hard line on indirect access because it wishes to peddle the line that the Post Office's phone line rental is physically the same and as good in all respects as BT's while its calls and the line rental are a little cheaper (even though this is clearly not true of Caller Display which it  charges for at £2.50 per month or £7.50 per quarter when it can be free on BT Option1 with BT Privacy).  Of course if it finds it has a huge problem with all its phone customers being heavy indirect access users it may do something about the indirect access calls but in practice it seems unlikely that people like ourselves will be more than a tiny percentage of the Post Office's Home Phone customers.

[quote author=trevord link=1139904160/0#10 date=1140394848]Apologies if I was wrong - I was just going on what they told me.  :-[/quote]

It appears that pre-existing 1899 and 18185 access carries on as normal although the Post Office are of course not exactly overly keen to confirm this.

Obviously if the worst came to the worst you could just cancel Post Office Home Phone right away as there is no minimum contract period you are committed to.  And then you would be back with BT or a rival WLR provider in 7 to 10 days or so.

I will be going to the post office homephone shortly.  Do they actually charge the same as BT for line rental?  The big decider is of course the free £50, and I'll be looking into getting the extra £15 as well.

As for calling other landlines, I'll be using my mobile inclusive minutes on the contract which I'm getting at heavily rebated line rental, to the extent I'm being paid to have a mobile!!  This means no need to make any calls at all via homephone!!

After I receive the £50, then it's time to decide whether it's worth going back to BT, to get the free BT caller display, or maybe by then, WLR might get to include free caller display!!

Shiggaddi wrote on Feb 20^th, 2006 at 3:01pm:

Do they actually charge the same as BT for line rental?!

No they charge £9.95 a month or £29.85 per quarter compared to BT's new £11 per month or £33 per quarter.  So that £3.15 offsets part of the extra quarterly cost of £7.50 for Caller Display.  Or you can make do without the Caller Display and put 2 x 3.15 = £6.30 in your pocket on top of the £50 cashback and the £15 www.greasypalm.co.uk cashback.

Buy now while stocks last.  They will be all gone on March 31st.

Okay, I think I've done the maths correctly, so here goes.  Providing that I can continue to use 1899, 18185, Dial Around, Discount Dial, etc., then my main call cost will be evening and weekend local calls.

I'm just moving to Primus Saver Option 2 (from TalkTalk 1+12, since the free evening and weekend calls have expired).  Since it's CPS, it's not going to work on Post Office's HomePhone (am I right there, aren't I?!).  So, I figure it's a case of how much is saved by moving to the Post Office versus how much time I'm going to spend on evening/weekend local/national calls.  Sounds about right?!

Here goes:

BT line rental (BT Together Option 1) £10.99/month, Post Office £9.95/month, monthly saving £1.04.
£15.00 cash back from GreasyPalm
£50.00 cash back from Post Office (if staying with them for six months, as previously discussed).

Six month saving is (£1.04 x 6 + £15 + £50) = £71.24  (thank you very much!)

At 1ppm that's a massive 7,124 minutes!  Which gives 1,187 minutes/month or 19 hours, 47 minutes, which is loads more than I use at the moment.

So, even paying for local/national evening/weekend calls, it'll still be cheaper to ditch BT line rental and Primus Saver Option 2 and move over to the Post Office, for size months at least.

Now, who's going to be kind enough to double check my sums?!!

RDD

You will definitely be able to use Dialaround and DicountDial as these will be shown on you Post Office phone bill at the same prices as when they were on your TalkTalk bill.

Once you have moved to the Post Office try a couple of calls with 1899 and 18185 and then log on to your online statements with 1899 and 18185 and check thos calls are listed there.  Next log on to your Post Office account after a day or two (in case they run a day or two behind like BT do) and check they are not listed there.  If not you know 1899 and 18185 continue to work as normal.

All your calculations on the line rental and cashbacks sound correct to me.

Another thing I forgot to check (doh!) is broadband.  I've already got broadband on my phone line which I'm (relatively!) happy with and I don't want it touched at all!!  The FAQs do say that broadband won't be affected, but has anyone already tried it?

Details of any experiences would be appreciated!

Thanks,
RDD

Red Dave wrote on Feb 21^st, 2006 at 12:31pm:

Another thing I forgot to check (doh!) is broadband.  I've already got broadband on my phone line which I'm (relatively!) happy with and I don't want it touched at all!!  The FAQs do say that broadband won't be affected, but has anyone already tried it? Details of any experiences would be appreciated!

Broadband is supplied by BT Wholesale/Openreach direct to your ISP who then bill you for the broadband service.  It has nothing to do with phone services on your PSTN phone line.  All that happens with Wholesale Line Rental is that your calls are billed to TalkTalk or PostOffice or whoever using CPS and they then put them on their bill which now also contains a charge for line rental which they subcontract from BT Wholesale/OpenReach and then charge to you at a slightly different rate from BT.  You no longer get the BT Phone line rental bill.

But your broadband service at the exchange level is supplied by BT Wholesale/OpenReach direct to your ISP who bill your ISP for the connection between you and your exchange and on to your ISP's nearest major hub.  Switching to the PostOffice or TalkTalk etc for line rental has no impact whatsoever on your broadband service.

Thanks for the reply NGM!!

I thought I had a fairly good handle on things, but all this new-fangled stuff is so fast moving  ;)

So Wholesale Line Rental a la Post Office, TalkTalk, etc. would be a half-way house between a standard BT line with them billing for line rental and calls, and a LLU'ed line with someone like Bulldog?  With a LLU provider, you don't have a choice in ISP or alternative call carriers (like 1899, etc.), do you?

What I'm trying to acheive, like most of the people here I guess, is the best bargaining position and therefore the best cost savings.  I don't like the idea of moving to a LLU'ed line if I'm forced to pay their call charges and broadband charges.  My broadband link is used for our home work, so we don't want any hassle there!

Thanks for your help NGM.

RDD

Red Dave wrote on Feb 21^st, 2006 at 2:20pm:

So Wholesale Line Rental a la Post Office, TalkTalk, etc. would be a half-way house between a standard BT line with them billing for line rental and calls, and a LLU'ed line with someone like Bulldog?  With a LLU provider, you don't have a choice in ISP or alternative call carriers (like 1899, etc.), do you? What I'm trying to acheive, like most of the people here I guess, is the best bargaining position and therefore the best cost savings.  I don't like the idea of moving to a LLU'ed line if I'm forced to pay their call charges and broadband charges.  My broadband link is used for our home work, so we don't want any hassle there!

LLU exists in some larger phone exchanges in towns where your internet provider installs their own equipment so as to handle the broadband connection directly instead of subcontracting it from BT wholesale  (they do this beacuse it is cheaper to do it themselves than pay BT's standard wholesale ADSL charges on big exchanges).  Most LLU internet providers still require you to rent the phone line service from BT although in theory you could just have an LLU broadband connection and not have to pay BT line rental any more and make all your calls using Voip.  However as the AOL's and Wanadoos of this world think cutting off normal phone service alogether is too complicated for most customers they mainly still force you to take BT phone line rental as well to have their LLU broadband service - even though they could let you opt out of any phone line rental while having a broadband connection if they wanted to.  Also as LLU equipment is only in big phone exchanges but these companies offer broadband on all ADSL exchanges they may think it was too complicated to let you opt out of the BT line rental just on their LLU phone exchanges.

To summarise Post Office HomePhone changes who you pay some of your phone line rental to and has no impact on broadband services.  Only your ISP is responsible for your broadband connection.  Post Office HomePhone won't even know you have broadband on the phone line as the technology underlying wholesale line rental is still CPS call billing and its then just an accounting exercise with Post Office then also billing you for line rental at a lower rate for line rental as they have paid for it in bulk from BT at wholesale rates.  Its still BT's phone line on their phone equipment at their  exchange though.  Same thing as you change electricity supplier but you stilll have the same electricity meter on the wall and the same electricity coming out of your plugs.

wrote on Feb 21^st, 2006 at 2:42pm:

... the same electricity coming out of your plugs.

I didn't know there were different kinds of electricity  :P
unless, of course, you go to the U.S. of A. or some other obscure place, where they have an (allegedly) less dangerous kind!   :P

trevord wrote on Feb 21^st, 2006 at 5:59pm:

I didn't know there were different kinds of electricity  :P unless, of course, you go to the U.S. of A. or some other obscure place, where they have an (allegedly) less dangerous kind!   :P

Lots of different kinds of electricity actually. Electricity from oil, electricity from coal, electricity from gas, hydro electricity from dam generators, other renewable electricity especially from wind farms and last and most controversially nuclear electricity, which may or may not be the only way we can meet future demand at affordable prices.  There is also possibility of future electricty from Fusion which will be great if anyone can ever develope a process that makes it work - see www.absw.org.uk/Documents/Briefings/Fusion-final.pdf#search='electricity%20fusion'

The electricity coming out of your plug at home will be a blend that mainly reflects the overall blend of electricity being pushed into the national grid from various sources favoured by different electricity supply companies.  However if enough people change supplier to a Green electricity company then eventually the blend in the national grid will contain more Green energy content than hitherto.

As to the US of A I understand it is they and Canada who have the safe 115V electricity (far less likely to kill you if you touch a live supply) and the rest of the world who has the more dangerous but more effective to use and transport 220 to 240v sort.  In the UK any extra danger from the 240v supply is probably offset by our uniquely high safety 1970s plug design but in the rest of Europe with their old low tech two pronged plugs they may be running more risks.

you forgot wave generators lol.
do the US have circut breakers like we do?

wrote on Feb 20^th, 2006 at 8:12am:

trevord wrote on Feb 20th, 2006 at 12:20am: Apologies if I was wrong - I was just going on what they told me.  :-[/quote] It appears that pre-existing 1899 and 18185 access carries on as normal although the Post Office are of course not exactly overly keen to confirm this. Just got this reply from their e-mail contact address: [quote]Good Morning, Thank you for your e-mail. You will not be able to use CPS after transfer however you will still be able to route certain calls througha different network with a pre-fix number. 0844 calls are charged at slightly differing tariffs depending upon the next part of the number, so if you have some specific numbers we will be happy to give you that information. We hope this has helped , if you have any further queries please let us know. Kind Regards -----Original Message----- From: Sent: 21/02/2006 To: service@homephone.postoffice.co.uk Subject: Pre-sign-up questions Dear HomePhone team, I have a couple of questions that I'd like to clear up before signing-up to the Post Office's HomePhone service:  a.. I currently use a Carrier Pre Select (CPS) provider for my calls, will I be able to continue to use this carrier after moving my line rental to the Post Office?  b.. I make use of some other carriers for some calls by dialling their network access code prior to the telephone number required (as in 1280 for BT).  Will I still be able to use these codes with no extra charges from yourself?  c.. What are your charges for 0844 calls?  I understand that companies who use these numbers can determine the call cost per minute, i.e. there's no one rate for all 0844 numbers.   Does the Post Office honour the rates as set out by the company providing the number? Regards

So it looks like we're green to go!!  No surprise about the CPS line (especially in light of NGM's recent comments) but excellent confirmation of being able to use prefix codes and 0844 numbers.

RDD.

Red Dave wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2006 at 12:33pm:

So it looks like we're green to go!!  No surprise about the CPS line (especially in light of NGM's recent comments) but excellent confirmation of being able to use prefix codes and 0844 numbers. RDD.

This list on the Post Office website shows you what they charge for all uk NGNs.  Basically their prices are the same as BT for anything like www.dialaround.co.uk, www.dialwise.co.uk, www.bestminutes.co.uk etc that I have checked on.

ftp://ftp.royalmail.com/Downloads/public/ctf/po/Pricing%206b.pdf

They do reserve the right to withdraw your indirect access but I think its unlikely at this stage when they are still so keen to build up subscriber numbers.  Even if they do you can always use the dial through numbers with Dialaround etc, etc and you can always transfer back to BT if the worst comes to the worst.

Is there a way to get ADSL broadband without taking a BT or Cable line rental? I'm guessing not from what was said in earlier posts.

A Friend just moved in to a house with a phoneline that was not connected, so she phoned the post office to get it connected. She was told BT would have to do that. Once up and running the post office could then take over the line.
 I believe she will now have to stay with BT for 3 months(contract T&C) before she can move to the post office, by which time the £50 offer will have finished! Does this sound right?

cowman wrote on Feb 28^th, 2006 at 1:49pm:

Is there a way to get ADSL broadband without taking a BT or Cable line rental? I'm guessing not from what was said in earlier posts. A Friend just moved in to a house with a phoneline that was not connected, so she phoned the post office to get it connected. She was told BT would have to do that. Once up and running the post office could then take over the line.  I believe she will now have to stay with BT for 3 months(contract T&C) before she can move to the post office, by which time the £50 offer will have finished! Does this sound right?

You can't currently have broadband on a line physically cabled and provided by BT (regardless of who may bill you for the line rental using WLR) without also taking PSTN phone service unless you are on what's called an unbundled exchange (exchange where AOL, Tiscali etc have their own equipment and you may already be getting 8MB broadband service ahead of BT launching their product).  Even then it depends on whether the unbundled broadband povider wants to let you not take phone service too.  People like Tiscali may be very keen to force you to also take their conventional phone service too so you pay them higher monthly rental.

However with cable my understanding is that NTL and Tellewest are very willing to sell you a broadband internet service without requiring you to pay them for a basic phone service with them as well.

Ofcom is meant to be doing something about forcing BT to offer what is called Naked DSL some time soon but even then you will still have to pay something to BT for maintaining the copper phone line on top of what you pay your broadband provider it would appear.

As to what the Post Office is saying about having to go to BT first that does seem odd.  I would ask for the complaint to be escalated to a higher level at the Post Office for internal review.  I can't see how WLR can be a worthwhile product if it means people always having to rent direct from BT at the start.

I have signed up to the service, going through greasypalm, and just awaiting further communication as to when the service will be switched etc.

At the moment I currently have Caller display free of charge.  When the Post office take over the line rental, I would imagine I would firstly get a rebate from BT for the advance line rental already paid, along with a bill for advance line rental from the post office.

But what happens to my caller display.  Is it automatically removed, or does the post office sneakily take over all my current features with BT, and charge for them at their own rates?

I'm happy with free caller display, but I think the post office charge about £3 a month for it, which I'm not willing to pay, but if I have to cancel it before the line rental starts, I'd rather get that out the way so I don't get any nasty surprizes!!

Shiggaddi wrote on Feb 28^th, 2006 at 3:31pm:

But what happens to my caller display.  Is it automatically removed, or does the post office sneakily take over all my current features with BT, and charge for them at their own rates? I'm happy with free caller display, but I think the post office charge about £3 a month for it, which I'm not willing to pay, but if I have to cancel it before the line rental starts, I'd rather get that out the way so I don't get any nasty surprizes!!

Why don't you phone the Post Office on their normally rapidly answered 0800 number for post sales and ask them.  As their staff appear to be rather more helpful than BT's or TalkTalk's I'm sure they should know what the situation is, especially as their staff are also all in the UK. ;)

Caller Display costs £1.75 per month or £5.25 per quarter with the Post Office according to their own price list for Call Features at ftp://ftp.royalmail.com/Downloads/public/ctf/po/HomePhone Features v6.pdf

wrote on Feb 28^th, 2006 at 2:45pm:

cowman wrote on Feb 28th, 2006 at 1:49pm: Is there a way to get ADSL broadband without taking a BT or Cable line rental? ... ... People like Tiscali may be very keen to force you to also take their conventional phone service too so you pay them higher monthly rental.

If LLU providers provide faster internet connections that BT then there's no incentive for them to stop 'selling' a PSTN service to subscribers. Afterall, the selling point of providers like Bulldog is 8Mb broadband versus BT's 2Mb.


wrote on Feb 28^th, 2006 at 2:45pm:

Ofcom is meant to be doing something about forcing BT to offer what is called Naked DSL ...

If the voice part on a telephone line was done away with, would that mean that higher data speeds can be achieved?

Dave wrote on Feb 28^th, 2006 at 6:42pm:

If LLU providers provide faster internet connections that BT then there's no incentive for them to stop 'selling' a PSTN service to subscribers. Afterall, the selling point of providers like Bulldog is 8Mb broadband versus BT's 2Mb.

Dave are you unaware that BT will be offering its 8MB ADSL Max product on all its ADSL enabled exchanges (apart from the Exchange Activate exchanges that only have a copper wire instead of fibre optic backhaul and are limited to 512k line speeds) within the next 1 to 2 months.  So then the key advantage non BT providers would have would be to offer a lower cost broadband connection while also eliminating the cost of BT line rental.  In fact my little country exchange that was not ADSL enabled until June 2004 is going to be ADSL Max enabled early as part of a test group on March 3rd - see www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange.php?ecode=THCP

Of course some of the LLU exchanges will then move on to offering up to 24MB ADSL2+ but then BT will again be rolling that technology out to all its exchanges a few months later. Although I'm unclear whether ADSL2+ actually requires any new exchange hardware investment by BT.  However ADSL Max at 8MB (compared to the original 2MB) certainly did not and only requires BT's main backhaul network to have been substantially beefed up to cope with the extra traffic.


Dave wrote on Feb 28^th, 2006 at 2:45pm:

If the voice part on a telephone line was done away with, would that mean that higher data speeds can be achieved?

No the element of the copper wire devoted to carrying voice traffic is trivial and makes no difference.  The point of doing away with the PSTN phone service is to make all calls via Voip and to do away with as much as possible of BT's extortionate £33 a quarter line rental charge.  Unfortunately the complacent overpaid saps at Ofcom are getting ready to accept BT's preposterous argument that their 20 year old copper wire and 1980s linecard actually costs them nearly £30 per quarter to maintain even though my electricity and my water companies only charge £5.50 per quarter standing chage each!

There is quite a lot more to read on Naked DSL in Ofcom's new consulation on Voip services.  Predictably it says there is no need for Ofcom to force BT to offer Naked DSL even on non LLU country exchanges.  Now I wonder after which top of the range lunch at a smart restaurant Ofcom senior staff were persuaded of that particular argument. ::) :-/

There is a lot more on Naked DSL starting on P70 of Ofcom's recently launched consultation on the Regulation of Voip Services and elsewhere in this document.

See www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/voipregulation/voipregulation.pdf#xml=http://search.atomz.com/search/pdfhelper.tk?sp-o=5,100000,0

wrote on Feb 28^th, 2006 at 7:12pm:

Dave wrote on Feb 28th, 2006 at 6:42pm: If LLU providers provide faster internet connections that BT then there's no incentive for them to stop 'selling' a PSTN service to subscribers. Afterall, the selling point of providers like Bulldog is 8Mb broadband versus BT's 2Mb. Dave are you unaware that BT will be offering its 8MB ADSL Max product on all its ADSL enabled exchanges ...

Yes I have read about that. But my point still stands, that if LLU providers go faster than BT, then they have no incentive to stop the voice part of the service because they have differentiated themselves from BT by providing a faster internet connection. Until Ofcom pulls its finger out and does something, we will be stuck in the dark ages.

Dave wrote on Feb 28^th, 2006 at 7:34pm:

Yes I have read about that. But my point still stands, that if LLU providers go faster than BT, then they have no incentive to stop the voice part of the service because they have differentiated themselves from BT by providing a faster internet connection. Until Ofcom pulls its finger out and does something, we will be stuck in the dark ages.

Dave,

I don't think you can have read my comments or understand the main point of broadband providers having LLU equipment in exchanges.  The main point of this is not so much to be faster than BT as to be able to provide broadband a lot cheaper by having LLU equipment on fairly large BT exchanges.  By doing this you can then cut out BT Wholesale's charges for backhaul and get connected to the rest of the internet at the cheapest possible price.

And I strongly suspect that it will only be at LLU exchanges that naked DSL will be offered at prices much less than BT line rental because the underlying provider of the DSLAM etc will not be BT Wholesale so BT Wholesale's extortionately high per customer charges will not have to be paid.  But it seems that Ofcom thinks that for those of us on country exchanges with BT only equipment it will allow BT to force us to take its lousy overpriced PSTN phone service we don't need so as to prop up BT's whole inefficient creaky and vastly overstaffed ex nationalised industry structure.

I can't believe that Messrs Stepen Carter and David Currie are allowed to remain in charge of Ofcom when at every turn they insist on constructing a regime designed to ramp up the profits and protect the business interests of the largest telecoms players whilst ensuring the least possible competition and highest possible prices for consumers.  It really does seem to be the case that if New Labour scratches the back of the large telecoms and broadcasting companies then they will agree to only print and say nice things about the present New Labour administration no matter how hugely lost or out of control it may in fact continue to become.

wrote on Feb 28^th, 2006 at 7:51pm:

Dave, I don't think you can have read my comments or understand the main point of broadband providers having LLU equipment in exchanges.  The main point of this is not so much to be faster than BT as to be able to provide broadband a lot cheaper by having LLU equipment on fairly large BT exchanges. ...

But whether it's for faster internet speeds and/or lower charges, there's still no incentive for LLU providers to stop charging for (and providing) the voice part of the line to subscribers, is there not?

Dave wrote on Feb 28^th, 2006 at 8:03pm:

But whether it's for faster internet speeds and/or lower charges, there's still no incentive for LLU providers to stop charging for (and providing) the voice part of the line to subscribers, is there n

Actually the LLU provider has every possible incentive to charge a much lower fee for line maintenance for a Naked DSL connection so as to encourage BT's customers (to whom BT with its standard national product range will probably not be offering a naked DSL option) to switch to using it as their broadband provider.  Unfortunately there will still be a fee to maintain the copper wire for broadband (but a lower fee than the one charges for PSTN voice) because of the fiction that BT continue to perpetrate that they spend nearly £30 a quarter on maintaining the old thin copper wires they feed to customers from their telephone exchanges.

It is a massive indictment of Ofcom's spineless weakness as a regulator that never puts telecoms customers first that it simply accepts the creative accounting methods used by BT to claim that uniquely its network of old copper wires and electronic switches is so very expensive to maintain.  Of course if BT had faced much more in the way of competition over the years it would have had far more incentive to become efficient about the costs it incurs in maintaining its customer phone lines.

wrote on Feb 28^th, 2006 at 9:03pm:

...the fiction that BT continue to perpetrate that they spend nearly £30 a quarter on maintaining the old thin copper wires they feed to customers from their telephone exchanges. It is a massive indictment of Ofcom's spineless weakness as a regulator that never puts telecoms customers first that it simply accepts the creative accounting methods used by BT to claim that uniquely its network of old copper wires and electronic switches is so very expensive to maintain.  Of course if BT had faced much more in the way of competition over the years it would have had far more incentive to become efficient about the costs it incurs in maintaining its customer phone lines.

NGM, just what is this word "maintains"?
Ah, you (they!) mean fix when faulty, rather than keep in good order with preventative maintenance.

Tanllan wrote on Feb 28^th, 2006 at 9:33pm:

NGM, just what is this word "maintains"?  Ah, you (they!) mean fix when faulty, rather than keep in good order with preventative maintenance.

Tanllan,

I wonder if you are not being a little hard on BT when their phone line at this address has never once been out of action in the 9 years I have lived here, whereas my gas boiler very nearly blew up due to Transco's known (by them but not by me or our landlord) range of substandard defective regulators with only 25% of usual lifespan not being proactively replaced prior to the sudden unexpected failure - which I consequently suffered.  Also compared to E D & F Energy and their third world overhead power wires that used to mean frequent brief power trip outs every few days when I first lived here and with whom power was unexpectedly off for nearly two hours a few months ago.  East Sutton and Surrey Water are I will grant you fantastic chappies where there have never been any unexpected outages and where their meters are in a location where they can always be reliably read.

So while I am usually one of the most cynical people around when it comes to the motives of big business I do see some evidence that BT carries out proactive maintenance to avoid component failures before they happen.  However what I do not see any evidence of is them spending anything like the £250,000 per annum plus that the line rental on their 1900 lines on the Capel telephone exchange must generate.  And that's before we allow for the £60,000 per annum that BT Wholesale probably now picks up on ADSL rental of the same lines and any further amount that BT Retail may earn on top for those ADSL lines sold within BT branded broadband packages.  And that's also without mentioning the £100,000 or so that BT probably pocket from users on this exchange from their element of 084/7 calls.

So I believe BT do carry out some equipment maintenance and replacement but I can't believe that maintenance is worth more than about £6 per quarter or £24 per annum.

OK, NGM; but I was thinking of value for money: high maintenance charges = high level of maintenance?
Planning for the future could be forbidden under current rules, although I daresay that any definition of preventative maintenance might only serve to prevent destitution for lawyers. :'(

Oooh my exchange is SDSL enabled.

ADSL MAX 31 Mar 2006  (Tentative).
Still cant see why its so long away, I know theres fiber around cos I saw BT digging it up outside my house. Shame I couldnt attach 2 meteres worth of fiber from that backbone to my house.

Just noticed that we got ADSL in 30 Sep 2001, This must have been in the real real begining.

Tanllan wrote on Feb 28^th, 2006 at 11:30pm:

OK, NGM; but I was thinking of value for money

Let me be clear that BT line rental is absolutely not Value For Money compared to any of my other three utilities (water, electricity and gas) who all have a standing charge of between £5.50 and £11.00 a quarter.  I fail to see why the cost for maintaining the copper wire phone line should be any more than this under a naked DSL type setup.  Indeed it should be less than this or nothing because BT is already receiving £8 or £9 a month for maintaining the phone line from the broadband payment.

mc661 wrote on Mar 1^st, 2006 at 12:38am:

Just noticed that we got ADSL in 30 Sep 2001, This must have been in the real real begining.

Dorking exchange was enabled on 31st March 2000 but we in the straw chewing villages of Surrey 7 miles south of Dorking had to wait 4 years and 2 months longer for ADSL to be provided on our exchange.

BT begrudged having to lay a fibre optic cable the 7 miles to our 1900 line exchange even though in the end they still had to pay for this themselves anyway. ::) >:(

Is there a link to tell you where these LLU exchanges are?

cowman wrote on Mar 1^st, 2006 at 9:33am:

Is there a link to tell you where these LLU exchanges are?

Here is the list of LLU exchanges including the LLU provider:-

www.samknows.com/broadband/llu-league.php

cowman wrote on Feb 28^th, 2006 at 1:49pm:

A Friend just moved in to a house with a phoneline that was not connected, so she phoned the post office to get it connected. She was told BT would have to do that. Once up and running the post office could then take over the line.

Yes, I too recently enquired about getting a new line - or, rather, reconnecting an existing line at a property that had been unoccupied for a few months - and was told by the P.O. that you had to get BT to connect the line first.

This isn't true competion because you are then tied to BT for a fixed period and lethergy will mean that most people then stay with BT.
:'(

trevord wrote on Mar 8^th, 2006 at 10:20pm:

cowman wrote on Feb 28th, 2006 at 1:49pm: A Friend just moved in to a house with a phoneline that was not connected, so she phoned the post office to get it connected. She was told BT would have to do that. Once up and running the post office could then take over the line. Yes, I too recently enquired about getting a new line - or, rather, reconnecting an existing line at a property that had been unoccupied for a few months - and was told by the P.O. that you had to get BT to connect the line first. This isn't true competion because you are then tied to BT for a fixed period and lethergy will mean that most people then stay with BT. :'( :'(

Also, when you sign up with BT, there is a minimum contract term of 3 months.

I think other WLR suppliers should be able to connect a property that used to have a BT line in the same way as BT can.  I think BT charges a new customer fee to connect a property that hasn't had a BT line, but if you're moving house and carrying over the account at the new property then there's no connection fee.  Likewise, if you've not been a BT customer and the previous residents were, then BT will reconnect free of charge and impose a 3 month contract, rather than 12 month for new connections.

Perhaps the reason why the Post Office won't connect is because BT will only allow WLR rental to be taken on lines that are already live with BT.  Does Talk Talk have the same restrictions?

I'm pretty sure that the Post Office don't want to turn away new customers, and this sounds more like BT doing their best to hamper the efforts of WLR companies.

If people really must have a BT line already installed to use WLR, then maybe the 3 month minimum contract should mean no disconnection of the phone line (ie change to cable, or get rid of the connection) but allow the transfer to WLR companies with no penalty, in the same way as you're allowed to change CPS providers.

This amounts to anti competitive behaviour from BT.

Just placed my order for the Post Office here back on Tuesday.

Also got my Sipura SPA-3000 as a present from a relative for my birthday but have yet to configure it for making Voip phone calls.  Will need to if Post Office block 1899 and/or 18185.

Any good bad experiences re bills etc from those of you who have switched to the Post Office already?

wrote on Mar 17^th, 2006 at 7:16pm:

Any good bad experiences re bills etc from those of you who have switched to the Post Office already?

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=1768358&postcount=6

Wicked wrote on Mar 17^th, 2006 at 8:18pm:

wrote on Mar 17th, 2006 at 7:16pm: Any good bad experiences re bills etc from those of you who have switched to the Post Office already? http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=1768358&postcount=6

Not a particularly balanced reply!  What about this?

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=1769433&postcount=7

Or maybe just a link to the whole thread might have be a simplier measure?!

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=165164

RDD

I signed up for their service back on 26 February.

I then received a welcome letter about a week later, saying that they will write again with the date to which my service goes live, and that it will be a painless transfer, and I'll keep all my current BT features.

I am still waiting for this letter, and wondering how long it will take to get set up.  I suppose that almost 3 weeks is not too unreasonable.

And remember the letter will be giving me at least a weeks notice, so I could still be activated by the end of the month!!

This poster here was under the impression that it would offer more then it did.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=167808

I'm leaving my switch until the end of the month.

We were with TalkTalk (TalkTalk 1+12) with free evening and weekend calls, but that expired about a month ago now.  I then moved to Planet Talk (Primus Saver Option 2) to take advantage of the free evening and weekend calls from them.

Since we get the £50 (+£15 from GreasyPalm) from the Post Office for moving to them provided we place the order before the end of the month, what we're doing is making the most of the cheaper evening and weekend calls with Primus.

Ignoring the cash back for moving from BT to the Post Office, the monthly saving would be £1.04 (cheaper line rental from the Post Office).  Given that the Post Office will be charging 1ppm for all evening/weekend calls, and we currently get them free with Primus Saver, what I needed to do was work out if it's costing us more to wait until the end of the month or if we should move now.

Since the Post Office are currently allowing users to place calls through other carriers (1899 in particular!), then the cheapest way to make evening/weekend calls will be with 1899 at the rate of 3p/call (assuming calls are over three minutes long).

So, £1.04 / 3p = 35 calls (approx).  If I make 35 or more evening/weekend calls then I'm best off waiting to move until the end of the month, otherwise I should move as soon as.

If only I watched all my pennies as closely as this - I'd be a millionaire by now!

(evening/weekend calls refers to local/national calls only).

Just noticed that Quidco are offering £30 cahback, i.e. double that of GreasyPalm!  See http://www.quidco.com/post-office for full details!

(Glad I haven't yet moved.  Only a few days left though...).

RDD

Whenever there's a deal that sounds too good to be true, it's either withdrawn or an even better deal arises (as with quidco, lol)

Anyway, with that aside, after getting back from my holdiday on Monday, I called post office yesterday as I hadn't heard anything about when my line rental is being transferred.

They were told by BT that they couldn't convert me yet, as there was a bar on my line until 19 March.  It was because Talk Talk had taken over Tele2, and rather than just take over their name, they cancelled my agreement with Tele2, and set up a new agreement on CPS (I assume it's CPS and not WLR!!) with them!!  I have also seen on my online banking that they have set up a new direct debit although Tele2 direct debit hasn't been cancelled.

As this was in progress, the post office couldn't take over the line, but since the bar was lifted they would re-apply to BT to convert my line, so the whole process that should have been done about a month ago, will have to start again, all thanks to Talk Talk!!

Is there some law against companies setting up direct debits without permission.  This is slightly different to situations like One-2-One changing to t-mobile, Cellnet changing to O2 etc, and the name of the direct debit was changed, although nothing new was set up, and nothing was cancelled.  However Talk Talk have written to me explaining the changes and I could have called their 0870 number and asked not to be converted.  I just thought that it wouldn't interfere with joining the post office.

I'm currently with BT and Just dial but will be transferred to the post office in the next few days.
Question is, Should i have contacted just dial to let them know??
I didn't bother because i thought the PO did it all and the fact that j.d never previously answered my emails so why should i bother!!

cowman wrote on Mar 31^st, 2006 at 9:59pm:

I'm currently with BT and Just dial but will be transferred to the post office in the next few days. Question is, Should i have contacted just dial to let them know?? I didn't bother because i thought the PO did it all and the fact that j.d never previously answered my emails so why should i bother!!

Moving to the Post Office HomePhone automatically cancels your Just Dial  Saver account because you cannot have CPS with another firm while you are with the Post Office HomePhone.  However I did get an email from Just Dial confirming I was leaving them as well as a letter from the Post Office saying my phone service with them was starting on April 3rd.  You did get your Post Office start date letter I assume>

It seems you and I only just got out from Just Dial Saver in time as I have just received this email from JustDial telling me I am being forcibly migrated to TalkTalk's LeisureUKTalk with InternationalCaller Extra service at 99p per month (well for now but I bet they try to put it up to £4 a month when customers aren't looking). So switching to the Post Office was definitely the right thing to do.

See below:-

-----Original Message-----
From: Just Dial [mailto:customercare@just-dial.com]
Sent: 30 March 2006 16:46
Subject: Important information about your Just Dial account

I am delighted to announce that TalkTalk, the landline company from The Carphone Warehouse, has recently acquired Just Dial Saver. So from 1st May your telephone service for "xxxxx xxxxxx" will be brought to you by TalkTalk.

From 1st May your plan will change to LeisureUKTalk with InternationalCaller Extra:

For just 99p a month you'll get:

Unlimited** evening and weekend calls to UK local landline numbers (starting 01 and 02)
Unlimited daytime, evening and weekend calls to over 2 million TalkTalk customers*
International rates from as little as 2p a minute
Access to customer services - via phone, website or email
To check out your new rates click here
To view your new terms and conditions click here

In the meantime if you have any queries we'll be happy to help, just email us as you did before at customercare@just-dial.com

Finally, I would like to thank you for your custom. I am confident you'll be happy with your service and all the benefits TalkTalk offers.

Welcome once again to the TalkTalk family.

Yours sincerely,
Donna Jones
Head of Customer Service

*Calls apply to the TalkTalk UK CPS and line rental residential customer base only, excluding CPS 'international calls only'. Maximum call time 3 hours per call. CPS means that all of the calls made from your landline are automatically routed through a particular operator without the need to dial an access code or connecting a PhonePal to the phone socket. Inclusive calls are those made from your residential landline and exclude non-voice calls. A minimum 5p charge applies to chargable calls from your landline. **Fair Use Policy applies. Excludes 0845/0870/0840, calls to Jersey, Guernsey and premium rate numbers. Subject to paying line rental to TalkTalk or another provider.

As well as the increased call charges incurred by switching to TT. Eg dearer peak 0845 calls. No doubt they have reduced E&W 01/02 call time from 2 hours,and removed the mobile call cap JDS use to offer.

wrote on Apr 1^st, 2006 at 9:40am:

From 1st May your plan will change to LeisureUKTalk with InternationalCaller Extra: For just 99p a month you'll get: Unlimited** evening and weekend calls to UK local landline numbers (starting 01 and 02) Unlimited daytime, evening and weekend calls to over 2 million TalkTalk customers* International rates from as little as 2p a minute Access to customer services - via phone, website or email To check out your new rates click here To view your new terms and conditions click here [...] *Calls apply to the TalkTalk UK CPS and line rental residential customer base only, excluding CPS 'international calls only'. Maximum call time 3 hours per call. CPS means that all of the calls made from your landline are automatically routed through a particular operator without the need to dial an access code or connecting a PhonePal to the phone socket. Inclusive calls are those made from your residential landline and exclude non-voice calls. A minimum 5p charge applies to chargable calls from your landline. **Fair Use Policy applies. Excludes 0845/0870/0840, calls to Jersey, Guernsey and premium rate numbers. Subject to paying line rental to TalkTalk or another provider.

As expected, no mention of those more expensive 0845 calls. Written in the same way as BT propaganda (marketing material). ::)

Dave wrote on Apr 1^st, 2006 at 2:46pm:

As expected, no mention of those more expensive 0845 calls. Written in the same way as BT propaganda (marketing material). ::)

I'm sure that in principle this is something one could take up with Trading Standards although as we know they are almost as useless on the consumer's behalf as Ofcom is :o

Personally I develop a lower opinion of TalkTalk/CPW by the month, especially after their disgraceful submission on NTS: A Way Forward.  They have almost fallen as low in my opinion as DSG Retail Ltd who I cannot even wite my true opinion on for fear that it may be seen as libellous.

Quote:

From 1st May your plan will change to LeisureUKTalk with InternationalCaller Extra: For just 99p a month you'll get: Unlimited** evening and weekend calls to UK local landline numbers (starting 01 and 02) Unlimited daytime, evening and weekend calls to over 2 million TalkTalk customers* International rates from as little as 2p a minute Access to customer services - via phone, website or email To check out your new rates click here To view your new terms and conditions click here

Did anyone else notice the word 'local' had quietly been inserted there?

Aha, I see utilitybroker did.

bill wrote on Apr 1^st, 2006 at 3:37pm:

Did anyone else notice the word 'local' had quietly been inserted there?

I knew there was  a reason it only cost 99p per month.  So this plan will only cover free 01/02 calls to other numbers on your own exchange if local is defined as narrowly as by those other companies left who still differentiate local from other uk calls.

How they have the cheek to convert a free service into a paying one forceably is also beyond me.  TalkTalk are even bigger shysters than I already knew them to be.

I just became a Post Office Home Phone Customer yesterday and 1899 and 18185 are still working fine and I see I still have Caller Display even though I wasn't given a chance to order it when I switched to HomePhone.  I think I will wait to see if I have been billed for it and I'm not entirely sure I can put up with not having CLI, even though I do like to save money. ;)

The things that confirm I am now with HomePhone are (a) that calling 150 and 151 produces a recorded message telling me to call the customer service number of my home phone provider and (b) that JustDial sent me an email yesterday saying that I was switched to the Post Office from that day.

Well here's hoping that the PostOffice aren't as greedy and grasping as TalkTalk and that Indirect Access with the Finarea companies continues.  If these WLR firms can't make a profit out of just selling cheaper line rental than BT regardless of how many calls you make with them then in my book its not real competition.

Excellent news NGM!

I signed up late last week and I've only just received what must be the first letter which confirms the order (don't worry, order placed before 31st for the £50 cash-back!).

I'm happy about 1899 and 18185.  I plan to continue my use of those services as well.  As I've mentioned elsewhere, I have asked the Post Office's helpdesk if I'll be able to do so and they have said yes.  Here's hoping it stays that way!  What does worry me is the paragraph in the terms and conditions that states that if they (the Post Office) determine that my use of Indirect Access providers constitues an "unusual amount of activity" then they reserve the right to terminate my service.  That's not something I'm keen on happening, not least for the hassle of sorting out broadband afterwards!

Anyway, roll on cheaper-than-BT prices!

Dave.

Red Dave wrote on Apr 6^th, 2006 at 11:42pm:

What does worry me is the paragraph in the terms and conditions that states that if they (the Post Office) determine that my use of Indirect Access providers constitues an "unusual amount of activity" then they reserve the right to terminate my service. Anyway, roll on cheaper-than-BT prices!

In practice though they won't terminate your service but they might perhaps deny all their customers indirect access in the end.  However the Post Office is still quite small in the Wholesale Line Rental marketplace and for now I don't think they will want to do anything that loses them customer numbers.

Even if it happened there are still all the Diall Through services plus the Voip options for avoiding using their services for phone calls.

Of course the cheaper than BT prices bit is really only on the line rental.  After all I'm sure you won't be using the Post Office for any phone calls. ;)

By the way did you order throught www.greasypalm.co.uk and get the other £15 cashback?

wrote on Apr 7^th, 2006 at 12:12am:

Of course the cheaper than BT prices bit is really only on the line rental.  After all I'm sure you won't be using the Post Office for any phone calls. ;)

Correct!


wrote on Apr 7^th, 2006 at 12:12am:

By the way did you order throught www.greasypalm.co.uk and get the other £15 cashback?

Nope, I used http://www.quidco.com/post-office/ which were offering a massive £30.00 at the time!

Can't imagine nearly such a good deal to be tempted back to BT...! ;)

Dave.

Red Dave wrote on Apr 7^th, 2006 at 9:58am:

Nope, I used http://www.quidco.com/post-office/ which were offering a massive £30.00 at the time! Can't imagine nearly such a good deal to be tempted back to BT...! ;)

Do quidco actually pay out though?  I think Greasy Palm may be more reliable on that score?

You may not get a good deal to go back to BT but a lousy deal to carry on with the Post Office after 6 months may be enough to make you want to go back?

This is the first time I've used Quidco, but I have read positive things about them.  I'm hoping they do pay out!

And yes, I think you're absolutely right about the likely situation in six months time.  I called BT before moving just to give them one last chance to tempt me in to staying.  And did they?  Did they heck!  The guy was fully aware of the offer, tried to suggest that some call prices were higher, and then reliably informed me that I had the choice to move provider if I wanted to.  So much for that idea!

I too changed all 3 of my lines to the Post Office last week, via quidco.
Have received confirmation from the Post Office of the last two I changed - will chase them about the other one if I don't hear today.
I've also never used quidco before, but am hoping for the payout £90!
I too noticed the bit in the T&Cs about indirect access, but am planning on continuing to use 1899 & 18185 as long as possible.

NGM - you say:

wrote on Apr 6^th, 2006 at 9:34pm:

I see I still have Caller Display even though I wasn't given a chance to order it when I switched to HomePhone.  I think I will wait to see if I have been billed for it and I'm not entirely sure I can put up with not having CLI, even though I do like to save money. ;)

The PO sign up procedure said that they would automatically provide any caller features that you already have - that's presumably why you still have Caller Display.
But their literature also said that all caller features were the same price as BT, so if you weren't paying extra for it with BT, you ought to follow it up if the PO try to charge you for it (as I'm sure they will).


wrote on Apr 7^th, 2006 at 12:12am:

Even if it happened there are still all the Diall Through services ... for avoiding using their services for phone calls.

Yes - but they have a per minute charge for UK calls.

trevord wrote on Apr 7^th, 2006 at 11:45am:

The PO sign up procedure said that they would automatically provide any caller features that you already have - that's presumably why you still have Caller Display. But their literature also said that all caller features were the same price as BT, so if you weren't paying extra for it with BT, you ought to follow it up if the PO try to charge you for it (as I'm sure they will).

But as they don't replicate BT Privacy or BT's price for a pack of 4 network services how can this be true? :-? ::)

I haven't investigated any of this, but the leaflet I picked up from the PO says:

Quote:

... call features are charged at exactly the same price as BT charge you now.** ** Excludes BT calling feature packs.

So no doubt also excludes the BT Privacy deal on Caller Display then although as they don't say so they might be in trouble on that one.

Exactly what I thought!

I vistied quidco, and registered yesterday.

It's too late to take advantage of the £30 offer, rather than £15 from greasypalm, but quidco seem to pay higher rates than greasypalm, but there is a catch.

Greasypalm give a joining bonus, and a bonus for referring others, but quidco actually charge a £5 annual fee, which is only taken if your earnings are more than £5.  Of course the difference between the 1 transaction of the post office homephone would still make quidco better value.

Payments are made via paypal with quidco, as opposed to BACS transfer with greasypalm.  The problem with paypal, is that you can only accept £500 lifetime limit before having to upgrade to a business account, which means that there is a fee for accepting money (as widely used on ebay)  Also, as paypal charge for withdrawing less than £50, it means that with quidco, you need to earn at least £50 before they pay out, as opposed to £25 from greasypalm!!

There's also no referral system.  If you want to recommend them, you just tell your friends.

But the good thing about quidco, is they pass on all their commission from retailers (minus their annual fee) whereas greasypalm pass on about half of theirs, but they use the other half to pay for referral schemes, and giving new customers a starting bonus, and of course their own profits!!

However there are a few better deals around with quidco, especially when it comes to renewing my car insurance, taking out a new credit card, mobile phone contract, and it's even worth opening a few savings or bank accounts just for the referral bonus.

Shiggaddi wrote on Apr 8^th, 2006 at 3:12pm:

However there are a few better deals around with quidco, especially when it comes to renewing my car insurance, taking out a new credit card, mobile phone contract, and it's even worth opening a few savings or bank accounts just for the referral bonus.

I just placed £40 of bets on the GrandNational using Quidco offers for Tote Bookmakers, Paddy Power and Sporting Odds and it appears that if they all pay out on the Cashback then I will make £14 net on the betting due to all the Cashbacks.  If I win any of these bets things will be much better.

The Quidco offer for Sky Digital also looks pretty attractive too.

Shiggaddi wrote on Apr 8^th, 2006 at 3:12pm:

Also, as paypal charge for withdrawing less than £50...

Is it not possible to transfer some money in to your PayPal account to make it up to £50 and then remove £50?

Dave wrote on Apr 8^th, 2006 at 8:12pm:

Shiggaddi wrote on Apr 8th, 2006 at 3:12pm: Also, as paypal charge for withdrawing less than £50... Is it not possible to transfer some money in to your PayPal account to make it up to £50 and then remove £50?

Yes, I certainly did think of that!

However paypal have a lifetime limit of receiving £500 for personal paypal accounts, before forcing an upgrade to premier/business.  I don't know for sure, but if I received say £20 from quidco, then topped up to £50 to avoid the withdrawal fee, then paypal might count as received £50 towards this limit.

However it is perfectly possible to create another other paypal accounts, and in reality it would take quite a while to reach that £500!!

Paypal impose this limit because paypal is used mainly on ebay, and upgrading the account means that you can accept credit card payments, but there is a fee on each transaction and this fee is imposed whether the buyer pays by credit card or not.  As a buyer on ebay I do prefer to pay by credit card.

Ebay sellers usually take this into account when accepting money from people, but when paypal fees can eat into the money given from a cashback site, surely paypal is not the best option.

Quidco do state on their page that they are looking into other ways to pay people, and hopefully they will start paying by BACS before the £500 limit becomes an issue.

BACS payments are free to set up, and 100% of the amount transferred reaches the destination account, and surely it's just as convenient as paypal to administer.

Shiggaddi wrote on Apr 8^th, 2006 at 11:55pm:

BACS payments are free to set up, and 100% of the amount transferred reaches the destination account, and surely it's just as convenient as paypal to administer.

BACS is probably more expensive than PayPal so would mean less Cashback?

I am also rather concerned that only one of my three Grand National bets with Quidco betting partners yesterday afternoon currently seems to be shown as tracked and I do hope the others are going to show up in due course.  I did do it all through their site to get to the other sites and all the GreasyPalm checking stuff says that they have no problem interacting through my Firewalls and Norton Internet Security with my machine..

Well, having applied at the end of February, I still haven't been connected.

I called them at the end of March, and found that because Talk Talk took over Tele2, they had put a request to convert my CPS over to them, and nobody else could ask BT for CPS, or WLR in that time.  When I called Post Office, the deadline date had expired, so Post office could go full steam ahead with converting my line.

Well, still waiting for that letter confirming my change over date!!

I think I'll give them a call after the bank holiday if there's nothing in the post on Saturday or Tuesday.

The discussion NonGeographicalMan started on being unable to dial certain 0844/0871/090 numbers using Post Office Home Phone has been moved here.