Hello everyone,  ;)

We've escaped broadband for a long time now but noticed TalkTalk's new plan, which I'm sure you will have heard about.

The disadvantages/problems:

• Inability to use BT by dialling 1280
  
• No access to other providers by dialling four/five digit access codes
  
• No access to free caller display
  
• 18 month minimum contract
  
• Premium Rate Tech Support
  
• Expensive Non-Geo numbers - no way to override or bypass through access codes
  
• Blocked P2P downloads (probably)
  
• Possiblity that other VoIP providers may be blocked so we are forced to use TalkTalk's own service :-/

I'm updating this original post as people point out various disadvantages... :)  

Advantages of their new plan which costs £20.99 per month:

• Inclusive Line Rental
  
• Inclusive peak time UK Landline calls (70 mins duration)
  
• Inclusive anytime calls to EU countries, USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand
  
• Up to 8 Megabit broadband (if available in your area) - 40GB monthly limit
  
• Just one bill (yeah, how convenient, huh? ;D)

I know I'm not the only one interested - TalkTalk's website went down earlier, apparently due to the sheer number of people accessing the broadband checker service.  Hopefully, we can point out the advantages but also the disadvantages - I know of many people who have willingly switched their line rental to TalkTalk only to discover to their horror that they can't use other providers.    ::)  

Click to access Terms and Conditions and Call Tarriff Document

Cheers everyone 8-)

Smasher :D

Line Rental now £11. (Two increases in a couple of months.)

18 month contract with expensive get out clause.

Expensive Peak 0845 calls.

Expensive Premium Rate Technical Support.

0870 Customer Service Line.

They block  P2P.

Also note that Free Weekend Calls for Life On Talk 1 now abolished. :o

This Forum is worth a read:http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=talktalk.

Lots of complaints on various sites of Talk Talk blocking P2P such as Kazaa and bittorrent software

From their site...

Peer-to-Peer (P2P) ports are used by file sharing system such as KaZaA, Morpheus, Grokster, Gnutella, LimeWire, WinMX, or eDonkey2000 to download large amounts of data.
A small number of heavy P2P users can utilise a significant proportion of available bandwidth. This can result in a significantly degraded quality of service for other users.

9.1 Does TalkTalk allow P2P downloading?

TalkTalk allows the use of P2P software, however, it does not condone its use where subsequent file sharing breaches applicable local laws and regulations. This includes, but is not limited to, those principles of law which protect against compromise of copyrights, trade secrets, proprietary information and other intellectual property rights, libel or defamation of character, invasion of privacy, tortuous interference.

9.2 Does TalkTalk block P2P ports?

No, TalkTalk broadband does not block ports used by P2P file sharing systems.

9.3 Does TalkTalk broadband prioritise traffic generated by P2P software?

TalkTalk broadband may use network controls to prioritise traffic generated by web browsing, email and music downloads over that generated by with P2P file sharing systems where it is found that it affects the bandwidth of other broadband users.

9.4 Why does TalkTalk put network controls in place with P2P networks?

TalkTalk owes a duty to all our Broadband users to both preserve network integrity and avoid network degradation. If, in our reasonable opinion, we believe P2P usage has, or may adversely affect, such network integrity or may cause network degradation for the majority of users we may control the transmission speed of selected ports.

9.5 Does TalkTalk use network controls to affect gaming or other legitimate download services?

The techniques used to control the network should not affect legitimate download, chat, instant messaging or gaming services.


So, IF you're lucky, and your exchange has been opened, and not that many have, you MIGHT be lucky to get 8meg (funny, that almost looks like Smeg - how appropriate for the service) in the future, but most probably 2mb at the moment, and they'll cap that.  But they won't really allow you to use the services that you bought broadband for in the first place!

I use the telewest 10meg service for £35 per month. NO capping or restrictions at all. I downloaded over 60Gb one month at full speed.
I use voipstunt for all land and foreign land calls.
WHAT CAN THE ADVANTAGE BE OF TALK TALK?

TalkTalk will be hard sold out of Carphone Warehouse Shops and to all existing TalkTalk customers and anyone else at all on the CPW marketing mailing lists.  As usual with CPW it will be a triumph of marketing bamboozle and spin over fairness, truth or especially plain honest decent service that even Gerald Ratner would be proud of.

The apparent advantage of CPW is if you are in a home with a husband and wife and 2 or 3 kids is that you now get All Calls (apart of course from all the calls to 084 and 087 which CPW's disgraceful submission to Ofcom NTS Way Forward is working so hard to make sure don't get any less in number even though it has historically sold Talk3 deceitfully as being to "all uk landlines") and "free broadband" for what appears only £9.99 a month on top of a standard extortionate £11 phone line rental that the incompetent fools at Ofcom are doing absolutely nothing at all to encoourage to come down.

Mr and Mrs Average will be all naive and believeing in the way they are with the Timeshare and Life Assurance salesman and foolishly sign on the dotted line for 18 months only to discover later the horror of not all broadband being the same and this service being slower than a dog at peak times and even more fraught with problems and not working than Tiscali broadband already is notorious for.  Of course many of Mr Dunstone's ideal customers still use dial up and so when they move to his slow as a dog broadband (only ever delivering high speeds at 3am) they will not realise they are gettting a shoddy cheap lousy service as they only be used to dial up and TalkTalk broadband will be just slightly faster than dial up used to be.  Even then their techncially savvy 16 year old will compare with his mates and tell mum and dad they are being ripped off.

As I am on an exchange reasonably unlikely to be be unbundled any time in the next couple of years (country exchange with 1900 lines that is probably in the last 25% of uk homes although not the last 5 to 10% like neighbouring exchanges with only 200, 300 and 600 lines clearly are) I will not even face this dilemma and the only thing that will no doubt come out of the new Ratner flavoured CPW deal is hopefully lower prices from other conventional broadband providers and a big pressure on BT Wholesale to lower its prices to other ISPs on non unbundled exchanges where current broadband prices are going to start to look rather high.

Well there you are as I'm based at home 7 days a week now and have just moved to ADSLMax with Freedom2Surf where I seem to be getting around 6Mbps most of the time downstream and 0.4Mbps upstream most of the time about half a mile from the exchange my broadband is too important to me to consider the Ryanair or ValueJet of broadband.  Annd who knows what kind of broadband service I would actually get from Crapners if they ever see fit to  try to market or make available their overblown marking hype of a shoddy service to us straw chewing country folk! ::)

Of course another snag with moving to Crapners broadband would I am sure be that as they also control your brodaband service that they would soon start blocking your Voip ports to any form of Voip phone provider other than their own.

Craphone  couldnt even tell the difference between gigabits and gigabytes.

See :http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04/12/carphone_gigabit/

They have also removed their 0800 sales. contact number from their site.

All excellent points.  Thank you ;) 8-) I've been on a long long assignment (I could tell you about it but then I'd have to kill you) hence my not being around and not being on the ball with all things to do with OfCON and telecoms in general.  I will make a return soon though!!  

I'm definitely giving this broadband offer a miss - there are so many hidden conditions which I fear many have already fallen prey to, judging by the speed of their website at the moment.  They have 16 pages of T&Cs which obscures the important information.  Also there is a £30 connection fee which seems to have been omitted from the key promotional information, like the advert I've just seen on TV which proclaims "free broadband".    ::)  It probably wouldnt' be so bad if not for the 18month minimum contract which also ties all calls to them. >:(  

As it happens my local exchange has been "unbundled" but what I couldn't understand was how TalkTalk were going to offer 8MB when BT locally only offers 2MB? :-?  I phoned to ask what speed I'd get and was told that "it would be 8MB".  That was after they took my postcode and phone number.   :-/  We are still with them for Talk1 + World  8-)  and we're milking them dry with the amount of calls we make to USA after 6pm.  I am the root of all evil... ;D

Smasher wrote on Apr 12^th, 2006 at 8:54pm:

As it happens my local exchange has been "unbundled" but what I couldn't understand was how TalkTalk were going to offer 8MB when BT locally only offers 2MB? :-?

BT launched their 8MB ADSL Max service on practically all of their exchanges apart from a tiny handful on March 31st.  In practice there was a week's delay to have it supplied from the order with Freedom2Surf my ISP and it was switched on for my line yesterday.  I now Sync with the exchange at 7.5Mbps instead of the former 2.2Mps although tests show that the actual data rate is around 6MBps compared to around 1.9Mbps previously.  You only Sync at 8MBps if you are within about 400 yards of the exchange (on a straight wiring run) and even then the data rate is only going to be around 7MBps.

Having said all that in the long run over the next few months TalkTalk plans to install its own unbundled equipment at around 1100 major exchanges but for now their 8Mbps is being supplied using ADSLMax from BT Wholesale and will then switch to the TalkTalk equipment as and when it is installed.  Inevitably they will  be installing as little equipment as possible and hitting it with as many customers as possible at this price so the service is sure to be crap, especially as TalkTalk is a crap telephone company who persistenly billed me for calls dialled but not connected and even for calls not connected at all. :o

Well I hadn't got round to reading any of their promotional stuff, but you've all convinced me that free is not free.

It beats me why they got so much free advertising on the BBC

The 18 month contract starts when the Phone Line and Call Package are connected, not when you get the broadband connected. So if you havent got existing BB to fall back on you cant necessary rely on it being available as quickly as you would like.


Interesting article in the register on the problems CPW face.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04/12/carphone_llu_deadline/

andy9 wrote on Apr 13^th, 2006 at 12:26am:

It beats me why they got so much free advertising on the BBC

For once andy9 I cannot agree with you more.  When I heard the coverage on the BBC radio news on Tuesday evening I was absolutely furious that the BBC should just fall uncritically for such a misleading press release (as they did with the misleading Ofcom press announcement claiming that overcharging for 0870 calls was going to be brought to an end) instead of also getting the opinions of other broadband providers, who would I am sure have been happy to say what is wrong with TalkTalk's new offer.

As with pairs of shoes or suits or ice cream not all broadband is of the same quality and you very much get what you pay for.  And once again due to the quite spinelessly weak uk telecoms regulator people are allowed to sell as 8MB broadband a product that does not even Sync at that speed to most homes from the exchange and then may only run at at few hundred k data rate speed with someone like TalkTalk due to excess contention ratio and a totally inadequate backbone network.

It is more and more becoming obvious to me that half the journalists in this country only simply reprint press releases and that high quality investigative journalism of the Face The Facts or Panorama kind is very much the exception rather than the rule.  Oh for a Panorama program on Ofcom investigating  a "regulator hijacked by the telecoms industry". >:(

0870 Customer Service Line is free if you have landline with them, I have got free caller display for six months because i pointed out BT offered me it ;)

The free 0870 customer number only works from your landline.Not much good if your phone is faulty. ;)

wrote on Apr 13^th, 2006 at 8:01am:

andy9 wrote on Apr 13th, 2006 at 12:26am: It beats me why they got so much free advertising on the BBC For once andy9 I cannot agree with you more.  When I heard the coverage on the BBC radio news on Tuesday evening I was absolutely furious that the BBC should just fall uncritically for such a misleading press release (as they did with the misleading Ofcom press announcement claiming that overcharging for 0870 calls was going to be brought to an end) instead of also getting the opinions of other broadband providers, who would I am sure have been happy to say what is wrong with TalkTalk's new offer. As with pairs of shoes or suits or ice cream not all broadband is of the same quality and you very much get what you pay for.  And once again due to the quite spinelessly weak uk telecoms regulator people are allowed to sell as 8MB broadband a product that does not even Sync at that speed to most homes from the exchange and then may only run at at few hundred k data rate speed with someone like TalkTalk due to excess contention ratio and a totally inadequate backbone network. It is more and more becoming obvious to me that half the journalists in this country only simply reprint press releases and that high quality investigative journalism of the Face The Facts or Panorama kind is very much the exception rather than the rule.  Oh for a Panorama program on Ofcom investigating  a "regulator hijacked by the telecoms industry". >:(

How about each of us emails/writes in to Points of View and get Terry Wogan on the case?  It is the BBC being sloppy isn't it? ;) ;D  

Either that or maybe starting a thread on the PoV message board... [url=www.bbc.co.uk/pov[/url]]www.bbc.co.uk/pov[/url]

Smasher wrote on Apr 13^th, 2006 at 8:51pm:

How about each of us emails/writes in to Points of View and get Terry Wogan on the case?  It is the BBC being sloppy isn't it? ;) ;D   Either that or maybe starting a thread on the PoV message board... [url=www.bbc.co.uk/pov[/url][/quote]]www.bbc.co.uk/pov

[/url]

Don't forget to also write to the BBC Radio equivalent program called Feedback re their radio news coverage on the TalkTalk scam describing it as free broadband.  The radio viewer response program is considerably more intelligent and upmarket than the television one and a past effort to write to them on the 0870 issue nearly got an item on the program (although it seems to have been spiked by the Producer  >:()

See www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/feedback or email feedback@bbc.co.uk

wrote on Apr 13^th, 2006 at 9:27pm:

Smasher wrote on Apr 13th, 2006 at 8:51pm: How about each of us emails/writes in to Points of View and get Terry Wogan on the case?  It is the BBC being sloppy isn't it? ;) ;D   Either that or maybe starting a thread on the PoV message board... [url=www.bbc.co.uk/pov[/url][/quote]]www.bbc.co.uk/pov [/url] Don't forget to also write to the BBC Radio equivalent program called Feedback re their radio news coverage on the TalkTalk scam describing it as free broadband.  The radio viewer response program is considerably more intelligent and upmarket than the television one and a past effort to write to them on the 0870 issue nearly got an item on the program (although it seems to have been spiked by the Producer  >:() See www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/feedback or email feedback@bbc.co.uk

Right well let's all get typing then!!   :D

Please post here to say when you've emailed and perhaps include the email you sent in?  ;)

Quote:

Carphone encouraged by broadband take-up LONDON (Reuters) - Carphone Warehouse said on Thursday that take up for its cut-rate Internet broadband package launched two days ago was five times greater than expected. [...] "We've had 25,000 people sign up since Tuesday, that's five times more than we expected," a company spokesman said. [...] Source: Reuters Full story

It only goes to show how gullible most members of the public are and why cheap and nasty so often unfortunately succeeds. [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif]

I read something in the Guardian article about you being charged a £70 broadband disconnection fee if you already have broadband with another provider!  Clearly a journalist there doing a bit more homework and investigation than our friend David Derbyshire at The Times is prone to do. ;)

wrote on Apr 20^th, 2006 at 1:58pm:

It only goes to show how gullible most members of the public are and why cheap and nasty so often unfortunately succeeds. [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif]

Is this not how Cable & Wireless' Bulldog bit off more than it could chew?

Dave wrote on Apr 20^th, 2006 at 1:59pm:

Is this not how Cable & Wireless' Bulldog bit off more than it could chew?

And Tiscali of course for that matter as they have the next cheapest broadband and all 01/02 calls deal after the new TalkTalk one.

Charles Dunstones Blog about the Free BB offer and the contact numbers is worth a read.


http://www.talktalk.co.uk/talktalk/servlet/gben-LLU-PageServer?article=MAIN.UK.TALKTALK.STATIC.BLOG.HOME


I understand that some of the ready for service dates for the provision of BB(not line rental) are being pushed further and further back. Late Aug was one i heard.

wrote on Apr 20^th, 2006 at 1:58pm:

It only goes to show how gullible most members of the public are and why cheap and nasty so often unfortunately succeeds. [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif] I read something in the Guardian article about you being charged a £70 broadband disconnection fee if you already have broadband with another provider!  Clearly a journalist there doing a bit more homework and investigation than our friend David Derbyshire at The Times is prone to do. ;)

David Derbyshire works for the Telegraph, not the Times, but on this occasion, I shall not kill you  ;)

I got a bit of sales pitch from TalkTalk today when I called up to complain about why all my USA calls had been charged for on Talk1 + World - seems they "accidentally" switched me over to Talk1 with line rental on order. Oh silly them >:(  I told them in no uncertain terms where to shove their crappy line rental package and to put me back onto my previous plan and refund the calls.  Agreed no problems!  :D  

Anyway, he asked me about their "free" broadband at the end of the call; I had the time of my life carefully listing and then explaining all the disadvantages to the guy.  I think I may have convinced the poor bloke in the call centre that their package was utter tripe! ;D  He had nothing to say at the end and just mumbled "Is there anything else I can help you with today?"  NO for crying out loud, if I wanted you to help me with something else why would I have left it till the very end of this telephone call and said "Thank you, goodbye" several times?? >:( Imbeciles.  All call centres are the same... by the way, Grumpy Old Men is back on BBC2 - 10pm, Fridays.  Highly recommended by myself 8-)

(sorry to go so wildly off topic - it won't happen again, well not for a week or two at least) :-[

I have just signed up again to AOL for another 12 months they gave me it for £15.99 a month with a £35 credit to my account :)

PLUS AOL say they are going to do landline rentnal in the next 6 months :) They also sent me this email about talktalk

   
 
 
 
 
Talk Talk Carphone Warehouse





·        Targeting 1,000 exchanges serving around 70 per cent of the UK population, it means a sizeable minority of people in the UK will not be able to subscribe to this offer at this price only 40% will.





·        Punters outside Carphone's LLU footprint will have to stump up an extra £9.99 for the package.





·        Anyone signing up to the service is also tied in to an 18 month contract,





·        Must adhere to a 40 gig a month download limit and shell out a one-off £30 connection fee.





·        Of course, all of this doesn't come cheap it will result in an operating loss of around £50m this year for Carphone warehouse.





·        Members may not be able to avail of the offer straight away, we have had some examples where by members will not get the free BB until the end of May and some until July.





1. BB doesnt include any safety and security feature. and will be charged @2pounds extra per month.
2. Technical support will be at national rate. Complex issues will be handled by 2nd level @ 2 pounds flat.
3. Free BB is available to those members signing up for their line rental product and their anytime calling package and not for customers that only wish to take PAYG calling or evening weekend calling packages
4. They have a cancellation fee of 70 pounds
5. You have to return modem if cancelling
6. 2% interest rate on late fee
7. Calls to 28 countries are capped at 70 min(calls min are chargeable after that)
8. Calls are done over a lower quality voice over IP network
9. Any time calls to 01/02 are subject to a 5p connection fee and 70 min call charge cap, whereby any additional minutes after this are chargeable.


They have what they call massive 40 GB download limit : It has a Fair Usage Policy.


What is TalkTalk Fair Usage Policy :
Our fair use policy is designed to ensure your service is fast and reliable 24 hours a day. A very small number of customers use file-sharing software (commonly known as peer to peer) or other applications, which constantly send and receive video and other very large files.
This type of activity uses a huge amount of bandwidth and can significantly reduce the speed at which our other customers can access the Internet, especially at peak times

Our fair use policy restricts this high bandwidth activity in peak hours to allow the majority of customers to use their broadband connection for normal residential usage i.e. surfing, email, online gaming etc. This allows us to give you a high quality service 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What Happens if a member has High Usage.

If you only occasionally have very high usage, we're unlikely to be concerned unless it becomes a regular occurrence. If this does happen then we'll get in touch to help you find ways to reduce your usage.
Ultimately, if your usage still remains excessive despite our attempts to help you reduce it, we may restrict your general Internet service throughout the entire day. A last resort will be to suspend your service and possibly close your account.

We definitely don't want to do that, TalkTalk is all about giving our customers the best possible phone and broadband service and with your support we'll work with you and hopefully avoid this from happening.

SOME POINTS FROM THEIR TERMS AND CONDITIONS:



Your Personal information is not secure
"12.3.  Your Personal Information may be held and used by Us for a number of purposes and
We may use third parties to support us with purposes which include, without limitation: ".....

Right of Cancellation

"If you cancel in accordance with the Regulations we agree to then refund you the purchase price, if any, of the goods. Please note that if you do not return all the goods you have received, we shall be entitled to charge you for the cost of them. If you do not return the goods and all other items, if any, as described in the Contract, we may charge you the costs we incur in collecting them from you. This does not affect your statutory rights."

What about online security?
TalkTalk provides two online security packages to choose from- Standard and Premium. You can get a 90 day FREE trial to the standard package after which it is £2.49 per month. The Premium package is £3.49 per month. All you need to do is select the relevant box during the set-up process.

Charges & payment:Interest Rate for late fee
We may charge you interest both before and after judgement at a rate equal to the greater of 2% above base rate from time to time of Barclays
Bank plc or the statutory minimum allowable on the late payment of our bill. Interest is charged on a per annum basis, calculated daily. In addition
to the preceding sentence, we may also charge you an administration fee if you are late in paying any of our Charges. Please call Customer
Service or see our Website for further details.

TERM AND TERMINATION
Subject always to the Ofcom Guidelines, if you wish to cancel an Order for any Service prior to its Commencement Date, we shall try to ensure
that the relevant Service is cancelled as soon as possible. However, other Line Rental Providers may charge us a connection and/or disconnection
fee which for example for the Broadband Service is currently up to £45 plus VAT for any work that they may have undertaken at your local
exchange to facilitate your connection to the Service. You agree to reimburse any such fee to us if we have paid this money to such other Line
Rental Providers.

All these pieces of information have been picked up from their Web site

Hope we can start building on the capabilities of AOL and strengthen trust and the bond our members share with us and our AOL product.

Justin

Regarding number 9 of your posting where you state that " Any time calls to 01/02 are subject to a 5p connection fee and 70 min call charge cap, whereby any additional minutes after this are chargeable.  Where as this information come from, has I understand on the Broad Band Package there is no connection fee for 01/02 numbers.  Also in relation to charges after 70 minutes, callers can hang up and redial free of charge.

Gwyn wrote on Apr 24^th, 2006 at 3:49pm:

Justin Regarding number 9 of your posting where you state that " Any time calls to 01/02 are subject to a 5p connection fee and 70 min call charge cap, whereby any additional minutes after this are chargeable.  Where as this information come from...

If you read near the beginning of Justin's relevant post, you'll see that he has said that the following info was from AOL(!).  What AOL have stated is is not entirely accurate though!!

There is no connection fee charged for calls to 01/02 which are included within inclusive minutes within the 70min time limit.  There will, of course, be one for any call lasting longer than 70mins.  Then of course, as you state, you can end the call and re-dial before the 70mins to avoid any charges.

I noticed that the ASA are now investigating TT's so-called 'free' offer!  See the Independent Online's website here (link to this was originally found by forum member Lorian from the MSE site).

Hi all,  
I am a single occupancy home user with BT's Basic B.Band. I have Call Waiting + Caller I.D + Call Sign (a FREE second number on my line).
[I was taken in by their  12 months free calls on Communicator (?!?!) - I only got about 20 calls free & was constantly charged for the rest - a tiny amount of which I managed to recover]
As I expected (& got) I found B.T's service to be total crap.

I am therefore seeking alternative service:

1/ I was thinking of going to TalkTalk3+Int. On 'the face of it' (???) the TV ad's make it look a great deal.
My first problem with them, is that it takes them over a week to answer any e-mail.  This in its-self is bad enough,,,, but if your line is down, & this is a clue to their service - won't do for me.

2/ Have also been reading about Post Office. [On a different tack, I tried to use them for my Car Insurance - great quote - but having got no reply to FIVE e-mails, decided against them]

3/ V21 dosn't look too bad either. At least it lets you use your Landline for calls instead of the internet, etc.

I'd love to hear opinions on a better/cheaper service for my needs - any ideas please ?

We have been with Utility Warehouse Discount Club (part of Telecom Plus) for about a year for phone, line rental, broadband (& electricity) and been very satisfied (although they do provide NGNs!) Their call centre is in the UK, their hours are a bit limited but we haven't found that a problem, when we had a line problem reported one afternoon, the BT engineer was here early next morning - being a business customer, they have more power than individual customers.  When we did have a few hiccups at the beginning (largely due to BTs intereference and mismanagement and Powergen's) the problems were resolved and we got compensation so I would think it is worth a try.  We found the prices very competitive and they are supposed to have one WHICH? awards.

TalkTalk has had a complaint upheld against it for calling inclusive calls to other TalkTalk subscribers "free".

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04/26/carphone_asa/

The Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) adjudication is:

http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudications/non_broadcast/Adjudication+Details.htm?Adjudication_id=41210

ASA is currently investigating the "free broadband" promotion.

Dave wrote on Apr 26^th, 2006 at 9:26pm:

TalkTalk has had a complaint upheld against it for calling inclusive calls to other TalkTalk subscribers "free". http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04/26/carphone_asa/

I don't know how B.T has the nerve to complain about anyone elses tactics !  I signed up for their B.Band Basic on the grounds that I get 12 months FREE calls using their Communicator.
Right from day one, the system was not reliable, & I had to use my landline - of course I was then charged for my calls.
I deducted this charge from my account,,,,, & was instantly threatened with all sorts if I didn't pay up.   After 12 months of paying for calls, they reluctantly gave me a months free line rental.
I sent about 25 e-mails which were all ignored. When I spoke to a ‘person’ (??) I was told that they don’t have time to read e-mails, so it’s a waste of time !
It was still garbage when my initial subscription ended.  When I had a call from them asking if I would like to carry on with Communicator,,,, they were surprised by my answer !!!!!!!
Furkin

Well as I expected, TT are now increasing their prices now that BT have recently increased theirs.


Quote:

From the 10th July 2006 the following call charges will apply: • The minimum call charge will change from 5p to 5.25p - that's still cheaper than BT whose minimum call charge is 5.5p. • Local & national peak rate calls will change from 2.7p per minute to 2.85p per minute - again still cheaper than BT who charge 3p per minute for these calls. • Local & national off peak calls will change from 5p to 5.25p for calls up to 70 minutes long. Again still cheaper than BT who charge 5.5p for a call up to only 60 minutes long. • All calls to other TalkTalk landlines are still free, all day, every day, for up to 70 minutes per call. Our call charges are always cheaper than BT. For more information about our prices please visittalktalk.co.uk and go to 'My account' Remember our Talk 2 and Talk 3 packages offer more inclusive calls and even better value. Checktalktalk.co.uk for even more details.

This was taken from MSE here.

Remember all those that made the mistake and signed up to their 18 month contract will have to suffer this and other price rises to pay for there so-called "free" broadband.

I wanted to ask BT a question today so I phoned 0800 800 150 - and, unfortunately, got through to India.

The (very obviously) Indian female who answered gave her name as 'Svetlana' and, stifling my laughter, I asked her how on earth she got such a name.  She told me her brother had given it to her!

By this time, I was laughing so much I had to hang up.    ;D

More news on TalkTalks very long queues (and bad customer services) for those calling them (especially on their revenue generating 0870 number) here, and below are just a few quotes:-

Quote:

The wave of complaints has been brought on by long call queues at Carphone's dedicated TalkTalk call centres, which are meant to handle all customer service issues. Carphone salesmen say that waiting times of up to 45 minutes are not uncommon, leading scores of customers to visit their local stores for help instead.

Now what I thought was funny is that despite Carphone salemen stating upto 45 mins waiting is not uncommon, TalkTalk's "official" response is:-

Quote:

'Because the demand has proved higher than even our own expectations, there are peak times when customers may have to wait to get through.' A spokeswoman said the average waiting time to get through to a call centre was five minutes.

Don't you just love the PR departments that can change any negative news and make it sound like its nothing to worry about - everything is a OK?

It also appears that there is a wait of upto 2months now for broadband and many complaints are from customers being billed twice and/or being charged for calls that should be included in their tariff:-

Quote:

New customers signing up to TalkTalk broadband will now have to wait around two months for their connection to go live. Store staff say many customers have complained of being billed twice or having to pay for calls even though they should be included in Carphone's broadband deal. Delays in dispatching modems to waiting customers have also prompted a large number of enquiries.

I noticed on a thread on MSE here that the ASA ruling on TalkTalk's advert has been announced, see here.

I haven't included the full response as it's a very long adjudication to which I don't ever remember reading such a long adjudication from ASA.

I am currently with Onetel Broadband, however come September 16th 2006, I will ask for my MAC code and migrate to Virgin.net ( max 3MB ).  At least, it will be on a monthly contract, and the telephony with Superline with unlimited geo calls.

James Bond

bbb_uk wrote on Jul 19^th, 2006 at 4:58pm:

I noticed on a thread on MSE here that the ASA ruling on TalkTalk's advert has been announced, see here. I haven't included the full response as it's a very long adjudication to which I don't ever remember reading such a long adjudication from ASA.

Yee-hah TalkTalk lost on almost everything and can no longer claim it is "free broadband" or "for life" (you will note the tv adverts stopped some time ago).  Good old ASA - a damn site more useful than wasters Ofcom.  I quote from the relevant paragraphs of the adjudication:-
"Issue

145 people, including competitors British Telecom, Tiscali and ntl:Telewest, complained about the advertising.  They said it was:

Point 1.  misleading to suggest that the broadband was free when it involved an 18-month contractual commitment to the Talk3 International (T3I) calls package; a connection charge of £29.99; ongoing costs of £9.99 per month plus line rental (£20.99 in total) and a disconnection fee of £70;

Complaints upheld
The ASA noted that the T3I calls package cost only £1 per month more than the next-highest-priced "T3" calls package and included some international calls.  We also accepted that customers had a choice as to whether to take broadband and that broadband was available separately, albeit for £35 a month.  We also noted that TalkTalk had relied in good faith on the CAP (Non-broadcast) Help Note on "Free" Claims for Internet Packages in order to claim the broadband element was "free".  However, we understood that CAP intended this help note to relate only to existing packages.  We did not therefore consider it applied because T3I was a brand new package.  Also, CAP (Broadcast) Help Note on "Free" claims stated "... if an extra element is added ... to form a more attractive product, the element could be described as "free" for a reasonable period as long as the original package (without the extra element) had been available beforehand at the same price, again for a reasonable period."  

We considered that, because T3I was a brand new package, and the intention was that the broadband element would always be an optional extra to that package, the broadband was, to all intents and purposes, a constituent part of the new T3I package; it was only available as an option to people who paid a connection charge to sign up and who continued to pay a monthly charge.  We considered this made broadband an intrinsic part of the new T3I calls package which made it different to "free insurance" or "buy one get one free offers".  Although we acknowledged that the price difference of T3I had not been inflated beyond that of equivalent competitor's call packages we still considered that the broadband element should not have been described as "free".

We told TalkTalk to seek CAP Copy Advice before using "free" in future non-broadcast advertising and that the claim be removed.

On this point, the TV ad breached CAP (Broadcast) TV Advertising Standards Code rules 5.1 (Misleading advertising), 5.2.1 (Evidence) and 5.2.4 (Use of free).

On this point the CD promotion and press ad breached CAP Code Clauses 3.1 (Substantiation) and 7.1 (Truthfulness).

Point 2.  It was misleading to claim broadband was "free forever"

2.  Complaints upheld

We noted that the offer was not introductory.  However, as we did not consider the broadband could be described as free (as outlined in point 1 above) we considered the claim "free forever" to be misleading.  Furthermore, even if the broadband could be described as "free" we did not consider it was possible for TalkTalk to substantiate the claim "free forever".  Inevitably, for those people who had signed up to the offer when it was advertised as "free", the broadband would become "inclusive" after a reasonable period of time because they would continue to pay £20.99 a month.  The benefit of "free" broadband would therefore stop once it became inclusive because customer's future payments would be for an "inclusive" rather than "free" aspect of what they were paying for.  

On this point, the TV ad breached CAP (Broadcast) TV Advertising Standards Code rule 5.1 (Misleading advertising).

On this point the CD promotion and press ad breached CAP Code Clause 7.1 (Truthfulness).

Point 3 - Complainants said it was not sufficiently clear from the advertising that the availability of broadband was dependent on being connected to a qualifying telephone exchange and that people not connected to such an exchange would have to pay a further £10 per month for the broadband service.

Complaint Uphelds

We considered that "Subject to availability" was not sufficiently clear to highlight to consumers that the TalkTalk broadband service was only available without an extra charge to homes that were connected to an exchange which TalkTalk had (or proposed to) "unbundle".  We considered that "Subject to availability" was ambiguous and could have been interpreted by consumers to mean that availability was limited, or that it was dependent on technical issues outside of TalkTalk's control.  Furthermore the CD Promotion only referred to the availability of the 8 Meg download speed, not the broadband service in general.  We welcomed the proposed changes TalkTalk planned to make and we told them to seek CAP Copy Advice on how best to explain the availability of their service in their non-broadcast advertising.

On this point, the TV ad breached CAP (Broadcast) TV Advertising Standards Code rules 5.1 (Misleading advertising) and 5.2.3 (Qualifications).

On this point the CD promotion and press ad breached CAP Code Clause 7.1 (Truthfulness) and 30.2 (Availability).

Point 4  -  The ASA (but seemingly not the other 100+ complainants) also challenged whether it should have been made clear in the ads that a delay of around 10 weeks would apply before people would receive broadband.

Complaint Not upheld
We accepted that the delays were partly caused by exceptional demand for the service.  We considered it would have been extremely difficult to accurately measure the likely response to the offer.  We noted that most broadband services took some time to set up and people would therefore expect a delay of some kind, although not usually as long as 10 weeks.  Given the difficulties in anticipating demand, we accepted, in this instance, that it would have been difficult for TalkTalk to accurately reflect in their advertising when first broadcast/published that there would be a considerable delay in the broadband service for some customers.  However, we advised TalkTalk that, should the delays persist, we would expect them to reflect this in any future advertising so that potential customers are aware from the advertising itself of the problems rather than having to rely on information from TalkTalks' website or their staff.

On this point we investigated the TV ad under CAP (Broadcast) TV Advertising Standards Code rule 5.1 (Misleading advertising) and 5.2.3 (Qualifications) but did not find it in breach.

On this point we investigated the CD promotion and press ad under CAP Code Clause 30.1 (Availability) but did not find them in breach

Action on Points 1, 2 and 4 Where the Complaints were Upheld Against TalkTalk

The ads must not be broadcast or published again in their current form.

We told TalkTalk to seek CAP Copy Advice on how best to explain the availability of their service and before using "free" in their non-broadcast advertising.

So basically TalkTalk lose on every important point and cannot run the ads again in this form but they do not get fined as the ASA never imposes fines.  Unfortunately the teleision ads did run due to the incompetence of another part of the ASA that signs off tv ads in not correctly vetting them.  This is mentioned in the ASA's response.

Now if only Ofcom would ever condemn an organisation like Sky or BT for continuing to use the term National Rate and ban them categorically ban them from doing it again.  But no at Ofcom all one gets is just a polite suggestion that such behaviour is not terribly sporting old chap and a hope suggested that decent chaps will do the right thing in future.  If they all turn out to be cads and bounders well too bad old boy - not a lot sleepy Ofcom can do about it don't you know.......... ;) ::) :'(

wrote on Jul 19^th, 2006 at 7:54pm:

Yee-hah TalkTalk lost on almost everything and no longer claim it is "free broadband"

Well in anticipation of the ASA response, it appears that TalkTalk have just started free broadband on their existing Talk3 package which is £8.99.  As this tariff was available at this price beforehand then it can now be claimed as "free".

I quote the following taken from Charles Dunstones blog here.


Quote:

"we will offer a package for £8.99 per month that excludes free international calls and entitles you to Free Broadband. Of course the option still remains to pay £9.99 per month and get calls to 28 international destinations included as well as Broadband. In short, to call something free it must be associated with a product or service that was available prior to its launch. The £8.99 Talk3 tariff was available prior to April 11th, and therefore it is appropriate to describe Broadband as free. We have submitted these changes for approval and have received clearance to the offer as described above."

Thanks to pricefighter on MSE here for noticing this.

So all they have done is reintroduced the old Talk 3 to get round the problem.

wrote on Jul 20^th, 2006 at 7:01am:

So all they have done is reintroduced the old Talk 3 to get round the problem.

Curses I hadn't realised this.  Although £8.99 per months for all 01/02 calls and a broadband connection is a pretty cheap deal - even if the broadband service is a rubbish one that runs at the speed of a snail.

So in other words this is much the same scenario's as Ofcom's ridiculous claim to be addressing the 084/7 problem by stopping 0870 calls eventually (years too late) costing more than 01/02 calls some time in 2008.

But by then all the 0870 scammers will simply have moved to using 0844 or 0871 numbers instead.  And although 0871 will be controlled by ICSTIS that will be no help at all to poor old Fred and Vera of Croydon and all the millions like them who will still assume that as 0870 is now definitely National Rate that 0871 must be too.

I've had problems trying to get money back from TalkTalk broadband after I transferred to another provider - all before the "free" broadband offer. I cna't get through to anyone to sort it out and despite having received a letter to say I won't get charged - I'm still receiving bills...

Heres a letter I wrote to them (email)

Dear Sirs

TalkTalk Broadband Problems

Over the last few months I have made numerous phone calls, sent may emails (each with only an automated response) and got nowhere with resolving the problems I have.

I have tried many times over the last few days to get through to you by phone with no joy as operators are constantly busy and I'm asked to "call back later"

I first received TalkTalk broadband in April 2005 and entered into a years contract for broadband at £14.99 a month.

Towards the end of the 12 months I decided to review prices of broadband providers and realised that I could get a faster service for less. I contacted TalkTalk to provide me with a MAC key ready for the switch to my chosen provider Madasafish.  I completed all the necessary online forms within the timescales set out in my contract i.e. giving 30 days notice that I wished to transfer.

Initially there were problems with receiving a MAC at all, but once received I thought all was going smoothly with the transfer. I connected to my new provider and expected that TalkTalk would cancel my account as I had asked.

I then received a letter dated 27th April 2006 from Steve Rescorla telling me that I had an overdue amount on my account (I had cancelled the direct debit).

Obviously I wasn't willing to pay for a service I no longer receive.

I then received a bill dated 10 May 2006 for £33.48

My wife contacted TalkTalk and spoke to Titus and then Ruth Neso, Team Manager who assured us that we would get a credit for the amount and the account would be cancelled properly.

At this point I thought everything had been sorted out and I would hear nothing more - I was wrong

I received another bill dated 10 June 2006 for £51.97 and more phone calls followed with assurances that it would all be sorted out.

I then received a FINAL DEMAND for payment!  I was obviously furious by this point.  I contacted customer services several times until I spoke to Claire Southwark who said she was sorry for everything that had happened and that she would get the credit put on the account and I would be reimbursed for the £14.99 that had been taken.  I asked to receive it in writing and she assured me a letter would be issued.

Amazingly I received a letter the next day! Dated 4th July 2006

The letter said -

" In reference to the conversation today I write to confirm that your Broadband account has begun the process of disconnection."

I had had my other provider since April!  So it was already disconnected

" I have also requested that the disconnection fees be waived."

I am not liable to pay them anyway having given the 30 days notice required by the contract.

" I can confirm that a credit for the sum of £51.97 has been placed onto your TalkTalk Broadband account placing your account with a zero balance."

Great - but no mention of paying me my £14.99

"I can also confirm that your direct debit details have been disabled on our systems, and that no further payments will be requested..."

I then received another bill dated 13 July 2006 for £18.49!

I'm fed up of having to sort all this out and I want to make sure that this complaint is handled correctly.

I can provide copies of all letters and bills for the ombudsman if so required.

As you can see I have copied this email to Ofcom and Otelo

Please sort this out for me immediately, I expect to receive some compensation for the inconvenience caused.

I look forward to your prompt reply

Yours faithfully

Craig Andrew Gilman

recently i have raised a problem with the advertising by TT as they advertised that BT charges for its caller ID but BT caller ID is free now.

Just noticed on SkyNews Interactive that CPW are in the red due to their broadband offer!

I managed to find it on Sky's website here, and from it I quote:-


Quote:

Carphone Warehouse has been dragged into the red by the cost of its new broadband service. Pre-tax losses for the last six months came in at more than £4.6m. That comes as the company revealed that start-up costs at its internet business topped £45m. The company, meanwhile, says headline first-half profits rose  60%, to £59.3m from £37m for the same time last year. First-half revenue was up 40% at £1.8bn. The UK-based retailer was dealt a severe blow last month. Vodafone then said it would stop selling contract connections in the UK from Carphone's stores and named rival Phones 4U as its exclusive partner.   Its shares took a beating on fears that other operators could follow suit and force it to lower commissions. And Europe's biggest mobile phone retailer says the outlook for its business is good. "The outlook continues to be positive. We see no change in the dynamics of the mobile phone market, with competition between players in the industry as strong as ever," the UK-based retailer said. "We expect demand to be good over Christmas despite a tough comparable period," it said. The company, which is also a major force in the fixed-line and broadband businesses in the UK, raised its interim dividend by 33% to 1p a share.

BBC News bulletin on their loss  :) here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6108800.stm

Ive been with TT a**shol** for a few months now, and Ive found their service is absolute rubbish

Ive had to ring their fault line many times, usually from a phone box... the nearst one to me is 2miles away, and my minimum wait to get through to the faultline was one hour and forty five minutes. Yes thats right.. I 'wrote' it incase you all thought it was a blo*dy misprint.
Vodaphone cust servs are just as bad. I'm waiting on them as Im writing this,,, so far 51mins. I'll havve to leave it in a minute cos my call time will be up. Ive sent them letters and emails which have been ignored

I'm really dropping this in here because some time ago I was credited £5 from CPW for their line always being 'out' therefore rendering the internet and phone connection unobtainable. I DIDn't get it, and the b**tard* had the cheek the following months bill to charge me a £5 direct debit failure charge, when they hadnt had that failure at all!! Since this, I have been awarded another two lots of £5 crdits, which have not materialised. as yet. Many calls. Many emails. Many so-called apologies. Too many excuses. Too many promises of raising and correcting...... And I'm still waiting.... And the more I wait, the more patience I lose  (Sometimes I have had the impression that these custserv idiots think that if they keep us waiting, we will mellow as we do... with me it's the exact opposite!!)

TT had the ruddy nerver to send me a poll question survey type thing one day basically asking if I would recommend them to friend family or other member of the public. Naturally I answered yes. Dont be bloo*y daft. Of course I didnt. What I actually said was that I would NEVER EVER do so, unless it was someone I disliked intensely.... I haven't been sent one since...I wonder why??????????

No. All you people thinking oif signing with TalkTalk....    DO. NOT. DO. IT !

Its clear that Mr Charles Dunstone is the worst sort of over ambitious businessman who just believes that you need to get bigger and everything else with take care of itself.

Let's hope the TalkTalk/Car Phone Warehouse empire ends up getting the same come uppance as Ratners.

Just spotted this article mentioned on MSE.  ;D

http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/_images/db/33/54/BE6031_03.335434.full.jpg


Quote:

A FURIOUS pensioner staged a lie-down demonstration to protest about poor phone service. Brian Crews signed up with Talk Talk through the Carphone Warehouse in July because of the free broadband offer but has had numerous problems since then. [...] Mr Crews went to the Carphone Warehouse store in High Street, Beckenham, on November 16. He took a sleeping bag, pillows and sandwiches with him and vowed to stay until his phoneline got reconnected. It was fixed within three hours. Mr Crews said: "They pulled out all the stops to fix the problem but the service is so poor. "I would advise everyone to have nothing to do with Talk Talk."

I am  new to these teckies, with some difficulty I found how to write here>  I have been regularly using override and where required and available geographical nos( for 0845,0870,0871.etc....)and so far I have not been blocked by talk talk ?I am a little surprised to read that talk talk blocks these overrides?
About broadband>it goes upto 2mb on a healthy day, mostly hovers around 1-1.5meg;enough for my needs! some times for no reasons it wouldnt connect > switch it off , come back later > it works; Not brilliant but does the job for me! I would say I am happy so far :)

bhojpuri wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2006 at 10:50am:

About broadband>it goes upto 2mb on a healthy day, mostly hovers around 1-1.5meg;enough for my needs! some times for no reasons it wouldnt connect > switch it off , come back later > it works; Not brilliant but does the job for me! I would say I am happy so far :)

I suggest you switch to a different ISP offering a better service by choosing one of those at www.dslzoneuk.net/isp_ratings.php

In my opinion www.newnet.co.uk who charge £12.95 per month for an 8MB ADSL Max connection with 3Gb of data and who only charge 70p per Gb for any additional Gb you use offer by far the best combination of value and quality for any lighter broadband user.

Also you can get all 01/02 calls and calls to any normal EU number for £4.33 per month from www.euphony.co.uk  Still I suppose with a BT bill of £11 a quarter on top that still comes to £28.32 per month for a decent broadband service and unlimited phone calls and phone line compared to £21 per month for a shoddy TalkTalk service.  You will note that TalkTalk and Tiscali are bottom rated by their customers at www.dslzoneuk.net and also get by far the worst results on speed ratings.

Just found this which was published last month. It is an ASA adjudication on Talk Talk for, yet again using the "free broadband" statement. The complaint was upheld.

http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudications/Public/TF_ADJ_43681.htm


Quote:

A brochure ad, for TalkTalk, was headed "FREE Broadband" and claimed " ... This year, why not join our Talk3 call plan and get up to 8 Meg (speed depends on proximity to exchange) broadband free!  All you pay is £8.99 per month plus TalkTalk line rental at £11 per month (the same as you'd pay BT)".  A footnote stated "When you take calls, broadband and line rental together there is a minimum contract term of 18 months". Issue British Telecommunications plc (BT) believed the claim "FREE Broadband" was misleading, because the minimum term contract on the pre-existing Talk 3 call plan was 12 months, whereas the contractual period for 'Talk 3 with free broadband' was 18 months; the package advertised involved an increased burden on the consumer than that previously offered and was, therefore, classed as a new package of which broadband was an intrinsic, not free, element.