I thought I would ask the National Blind Childrens Society regarding their use of 0870 numbers;

Good morning, I have just been leafleted (?) for an unwanted clothing collection here on Friday.

What surprises me is that whilst your website has all the regular geographical contact numbers, the leaflet has a 0870 contact number which you may know as a NGN or Non Geographical Number.

FYI these numbers attract a higher than normal charge rate of anything between 3p and 8p a minute. Not only expensive for the majority of callers who now have low cost deals with their telecom provider, but unknown to a lot of them they also have a sting in the tail. This comes in the shape of a rebate to the company that the caller is making the telephone call to.

The point of contacting you is not to give you a lesson in the use of the numbers but my surprise that NBCS are allowing an associate company, I&G Cohen Ltd to use such a number when the charity itself does not.

A strange arrangement, don't you think?

This is their reply;


Dear Mr XXXXX

Thank you for enquiry. I am the organiser of the clothing collection scheme and your comments have been passed on to me via the nbcs website. This response is on behalf of I & G Cohen Limited.

I & G Cohen Limited operates the clothing collections service in partnership with and on behalf of the NBCS. The scheme is fully funded by I & G Cohen Limited and it operates across different parts of the UK . The scheme is a standalone scheme and the running of it is not carried out with the NBCS.  The reason we use an 0870 number for our clothing collection helpline is as follows:

1) This is a national scheme and is is easier to have one global non geographical number. It is simple to use and people know and generally understand 0870 numbers whether they live in Scotland , Wales , or any part of England .

2) The helpline is now answered during work hours by real people (and not a machine). We try and resolve problems over the phone immediately with the member of the public to the best of their satisfaction. We feel paying a few pence per minute extra is well worth the small extra amount incurred. I think you will find that most clothing collection schemes have no one answering the calls and many do not even have a number to call or leave a mobile contact number which is very expensive.)

3) Charities commonly use 0870 numbers. For example the British Heart Foundation use an 0870 number for the public to call if they want to make a donation and the call goes through to a shop that will arrange a collection.

4) I & G Cohen donates £50 per tonne for everything collected and has already raised several thousand pounds for the NBCS this year. This rate compares very favourably with other commercial organisations who either don’t give to a charity at all or give a much smaller amount. We have received less than £10 income from these calls in the past 5 years. The 0870 number is used because it is practical and not to ‘make money’.

Therefore in summary we feel that a few pence extra is a price is well worth paying for a scheme that provides a high level of service and generates a good income for the charity concerned. I hope you agree.

I hope this addresses your concerns. If you have any more queries regarding this matter please feel free to contact me.
Regards

Phil Geller
I & G Cohen Ltd

I thought the clothing was used in their shops.  It seems the company concerned collects the clothing, and sells it on itself, but donates on a per tonne basis.

And as for 0870, they use the excuse that other charities use these numbers.  How about using an example that other charities refuse to use these numbers because they rip people off!!

And as for being so kind as to not use a mobile number, because it's more expensive.  Quite a few people have a mobile with free minutes, which can be used to call other mobiles, but can't be used to call 0870 numbers!!

Therefore mobile numbers, which were very expensive a few years ago, are not quite so expensive now, if you have the right calling packages.

Perhaps he should also be aware that you can route geographic number calls, just as easily as 0870.

And another rubbish from somebody, he is talking about the tonnes they are selling and not addressing your concerns properly. May be he doesnt know that people can make free calls to GN and mobiles with their call packages.

gudman wrote on Jul 16^th, 2006 at 8:27am:

And another rubbish from somebody, he is talking about the tonnes they are selling and not addressing your concerns properly. May be he doesnt know that people can make free calls to GN and mobiles with their call packages.

More likely, the money his firm is making on the calls off the back of the charity is more important to him!

£10 income in the past 5 years indeed!

The crazy and annoying thing is that although the original query was sent to the NBCS and promptly answerd by I & G Cohen, my response to his flimflam was sent to both but neither have the balls to give me a reply. Expected of the clothing collector, but a national charity?

Thank you so much for this .. I've just had one of these envelopes popped through my letterbox (in Brighton) this morning!

I shall be leaving the plastic pouch empty for collection (couldn't see that it was recyclable, otherwise would have done that!  :().

SJ

I have just joined this site after reading through some of the forums.  I agree with some aspects of what is being said, but I think sometimes you lot go a bit too far...and honestly speaking it does make me think 'do you not have anything better to do with your time'?

What's wrong with a charity or an organisation working for a charity wanting to offset some of their costs? Do you really think that the type of person who donates to a charity is going to really worry about an extra few pence if they wanted to phone them?? I wouldn't, and don't so maybe some of you need to let up a bit and give these people a break.
Charities do a bloody good job and this how they get repaid? By immature people that throw their toys out of the pram because of a telephone number.  
Everyone has a choice, just don't phone the flipping number if you don't want to, but don't let it stop you from donating.

OrangeD1 wrote on Oct 30^th, 2007 at 11:26am:

I have just joined this site after reading through some of the forums.  I agree with some aspects of what is being said, but I think sometimes you lot go a bit too far...and honestly speaking it does make me think 'do you not have anything better to do with your time'? What's wrong with a charity or an organisation working for a charity wanting to offset some of their costs? Do you really think that the type of person who donates to a charity is going to really worry about an extra few pence if they wanted to phone them?? I wouldn't, and don't so maybe some of you need to let up a bit and give these people a break. Charities do a bloody good job and this how they get repaid? By immature people that throw their toys out of the pram because of a telephone number.   Everyone has a choice, just don't phone the flipping number if you don't want to, but don't let it stop you from donating.

Ummm, 'charities do a bloody good job?' May be but their offices are usually in very prestigious locations and very luxurious and I suggest you visit some of the web sites to see how much some of the fund raisers and directors of the charities earn, I think you will be very surprised. The pennies that go in to the collecting tins and raised at the stalls by voulenteers are funding a very nice life style for some. The main funding I would guess comes from legacies.

Well maybe, but if that is the case then that is a whole new can of worms that probably shouldn't be opened on here.  does that therefore mean that you should never bother donating anything to charity just incase someone else get's some of the money? Organisations need funding to allow them to continue with their quest to benefit the people that are the root of the cause. It's life isn't it - it's a very big picture and often only very small parts of it get analysed to death!

The charities we should donate to are the ones with the lowest adninistration and operating costs. These can be found by researching the annual reports of the charities. I remember some years ago a national charity admitted only 25% of what was collected actually went to help those intended. As you say this is probably not for this forum. I just could not resist making my original comment.

 Another problem is that using an 08 number is an extremely inefficient way to donate to the charity, as they only receive 2p or so of every 5p "donated" through the cost of the call. It would be more efficient for the charity to collect this as a donation, and encourage the donor to gift aid it, and thus the charity will receive 128% of the amount donated, rather than 40%.
    This particular case has also revealed that this charity is not benefitting from the QUALITY of the donations by selling them in their shops, but receiving a flat rate of £50 per tonne.

   Although we don't have to phone, there are so many clothing collection scams that charities are losing out if one of the scammers hits an area just prior to their legitimate collectors. Donors may choose not to phone the number, and perhaps donate a little more to charity, but would not then know that the clothes they also donated went to a scammer, which would be a loss to the charity far greater than the 40% it can raise through it's phone number.

    There is much public distrust with doorstep clothing collections of this nature, and my preferrence is to use the collection sacks as bin liners, and take unwanted clothing to the local collection banks that can be guaranteed to be run legitimately.

vinylweatherman wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2007 at 9:33pm:

Another problem is that using an 08 number is an extremely inefficient way to donate to the charity, as they only receive 2p or so of every 5p "donated" through the cost of the call. [...]

And consider how much over the price of a geographical call this is and you begin to see why telcos provide these numbers: Because they may loads of money at the expense of the caller.

"What's wrong with a charity or an organisation working for a charity wanting to offset some of their costs?"
For a start, I & G Cohen are in this for profit. That's fair, that's business, that's life. http://www.igcohen.com/
But considering they are raising money from a product that has been freely given, for which they offer a small reward for use of the respective charity's name, they do very well.
The Bird does a bit of work in British Heart Foundation, one job is to bag up items that will not sell in the shop, just because they are soiled or a button missing etc. She has to bag up then weigh the bags for collection. Each bag is about 20kg. At £50 per tonne, that's 50 sacks. £1 per sack.
Consider the mark up on the products when Mr Cohen sells the items to traders etc, I think he does nicely, thank you.

But he still wants you to give him more money via the 0870, when you choose to inform him that you have a bag for collection from which he will make further money. Beat him at his own game. The contact number for Cohen is 0161 736 8899, but then could you trust him to make the appropriate donation.

And if you still consider it OK for charities to find other unorthodox ways of making money, remember that it wasn't long ago that it was revealed that The Red Cross movement had shares in munition firms. Now that's a way to keep your organisation employed!

Quote:

http://www.igcohen.com/...... Consider the mark up on the products when Mr Cohen sells the items to traders etc

Looking at I G Cohen's website I see that they also operate clothes banks for councils under the banner of recycling. So in addition to the sky high council taxes, parking fines, etc,  those who drop clothes into one of these containers further contribute to the council's coffers to the tune of £50/t of clothes collected. :(

As a frequent traveller to Eastern Europe I see lots of shops in prominent locations that exclusively sell 2nd hand clothes from Britain! They even announce that these are clothes purchased by weight! That is where the clothes Mr Cohen collects end up with each of the intermediaries through whose hands they pass no doubt making a fair whack.

If you were to ring I G Cohen to purchase some stock, let's assume books. then you will be offered boxes of mixed books for 10p per book, on a buyer collect basis. This price has been confirmed.

How many books does a bin hold before it's emptied?
I've even seen the bins outside the charity shop for the after hours drop off. The charity, just 4 feet away, doesn't get to see them, ever, unless they fall out whilst being emptied into the lorry.

Nice easy business to be in.