[edit]This thread is out of date and no longer maintained due to the constantly changing market of landline providers and call charges.[/edit]

Last Updated:  20/07/08

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Below is a list of cheap call providers for those on a BT landline and continuing to pay their linerental to BT.

The below list may not be the absolute cheapest available as prices can vary at any time but are considered to be the safest (due to varying prices) and offer ease of use at the time this post was updated (see top of post).  For example, there may be some dial-through operators that are slightly cheaper but this, in most cases, involves dialling a full 0844/0871 number and then dialling the number you are after in full international format.  Also any calls made via dial-through operators access numbers are charged for as soon as you finish dialling the appropriate 0844/0871 dial-through access number.

Line Rental Plan ¹
It is recommended that you ensure you are on Unlimited Weekend Plan (formerly BT Together Option 1 Hour Plan) for which the current cost is £10.50 per month (£31.50 per quarter) when paying by Direct Debit and opt for online billing.

BT's Daytime, Evening & Weekend times for all calls except 0845/0870 and mobile:

Daytime:	6am - 6pm Monday to Friday
Evening:	6pm - 6am Monday to Friday
Weekend:	All day Saturday & Sunday

BT's Daytime & Evening times for calls to 0845/0870 and mobiles:

Daytime:	6am - 6pm Everyday
Evening:	6pm - 6am Everyday

BT has abolished its separate Weekend rates for calls to mobiles, 0845 and 0870 only. This means that calls to these destinations cost the same during the daytime on Saturdays and Sundays as they do during the week. Similarly, evening weekend calls cost the same as weekday evening calls.

Cheapest Options for those without an all-inclusive tariff plan:

Geographically Charged Calls (those beginning 01, 02 or 03)

Daytime:	5p per call - not min (via Call18185**)
Evening:	Free upto 90min (via Primus Saver (formerly Option 2)*)
Weekend:	Free upto 90min (via Primus Saver (formerly Option 2)*)

084x/087x Calls
Always try the database here first, otherwise:-

	0845	0870
Mon-Fri Daytime:	2p/min (via BT2)	6p/min (via Call18185**)
Sat-Sun Daytime:	0.5p/min (via Call18185**)	2p/min (via Call18185**)
Mon-Sun Evening:	0.5p/min (via Call18185**)	1.5p/min (via Call18185**)

For calls to 0844 and 0871/2/3, it is recommended to use BT.

077x, 078x, 079x (Mobile) Calls

Daytime:	6p/min (via Call18185**)
Evening:	6p/min (via Call18185**)
Weekend:	4.5p/min (via Call18185**)

Please note that BT has a 6p connection fee for calls (rising to 7p from 16th September) and Call18185 has a 5p connection fee for calls

For more information and possibly slightly cheaper calls then please use Money Saving Expert's (MSE) UK Call Checker, SayNoTo0870's Cheapest Call Providers and I also recommend reading MSE Martin's UKs Cheapest Home Phone Calls Provider article.

International Calls:
Please see MSE International Call Checker

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Continued

Cheapest Options for those wanting/needing an all-inclusive tariff plan:

SkyTalk^* - Charge £5 per month for their all-inclusive plan offering free calls upto 60mins per call.  Hang-up and redial before the 60mins to avoid being charged.  This plan is only available to current Sky Television subscribers.

Compared to the non all-inclusive option mentioned above, Sky's £5 monthly charge is equivalent to approximately 100 daytime geographical calls a month (4 daytime calls each day) with Call18185.

Primus Saver Max^* - Charge £5.99 per month for their all-inclusive plan offering free calls upto 90mins per call.  Hang-up and redial before the 90mins to avoid being charged.

Compared to the non all-inclusive option mentioned above, Primus Saver Max's £5.99 monthly charge is equivalent to approximately 120 daytime geographical calls a month (4 daytime calls each day) with Call18185.

When using all-inclusive providers it is recommended to continue to use providers listed on previous post for calls to 0845/0870, Mobile and International Calls.  This is because generally speaking all-inclusive providers charge more for calls to these type of numbers than the providers listed on previous post.

Ease of use with an Orchid Dialler:

An Orchid Dialler by Orchid Telecom allows you to pre-programme the box so calls are automatically routed via your choosen provider depending on type of number, and time of day (eg Daytime, evening & weekends).  The Orchid Dialler can also be set to bar certain types of calls that you choose like personal numbers beginning 070, premium rate 09x numbers, etc.  It costs £14.99 and if you order online here and enter the discount code as mentioned in this thread when prompted.

Orchid Telecom offer free initial setup if requested at time of ordering (see here).  To aid Orchid Telecom, below is the normal settings for each cheap call provider options mentioned on previous post:

Option 1 (for those without an all-inclusive plan)

	Daytime	Evening	Weekends
Geographical Calls:	Call18185	No routing (via CPS)	No routing (via CPS)
0845/0870 Calls:	BT (CPS Override - 1280)	Call18185	Call18185
Mobile Calls:	Call18185	Call18185	Call18185

Option 2 (for those with an all-inclusive plan)

	Daytime	Evening	Weekends
Geographical Calls:	No routing (via CPS)	No routing (via CPS)	No routing (via CPS)
0845/0870 Calls:	BT (CPS Override - 1280)	Call18185	Call18185
Mobile Calls:	Call18185	Call18185	Call18185

Remember to choose your own individual settings for things like premium rate and international numbers, etc.

Now if you're happy with these settings simply email (sales@orchid-electronics.com) orchid and provide them with a link to this page and your chosen option number and any other routing you would like programmed into the dialler.

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Continued

Notes
¹ Although it is sometimes possible to get slightly cheaper linerental from other suppliers this isn't recommended as other suppliers may block access (most generally do) to other cheaper call providers override codes (eg Call1899/Call18866/Call18185 & BT) thereby forcing you to pay their rates regardless of other cheaper providers that may exist.  Only BT have to allow full access to any and all other cheaper providers.  To benefit from some calls that are cheaper with BT, you need to ensure that you continue to pay linerental to BT.
² If using a CPS^* company like Primus, SkyTalk, Euphony, etc to route some calls via BT and not a CPS company you need to use override code 1280.  This then allows you to benefit from the some cheap calls that BT may do.  This option may not be available to anyone who moves their linerental away from BT.
^* These companies are known as CPS (Carrier Pre-Selection) companies.  For those with a BT landline they can arrange to have outgoing calls routed via their network instead of BT's without the need of dialling override codes or dial-through access numbers.  This allows cheaper calls than using BT and generally speaking CPS companies don't have a minimum term contract unless you agree to have your linerental billed by these instead of BT.  You continue at all times to have incoming calls handled by BT and continue to keep your existing BT number.
^** These companies are known as override providers.  For those with a BT landline then you can benefit from their rates instead of BT's by simply dialling a 4 or 5 digit shortcode.  These companies are a no obligation, with no monthly subscription charge and also don't have any minimum term contracts. These companies are commonly known as a no-frills company with a lack of customer services via telephone (online only) and sometimes the call quality may not be as good when using CPS companies.  You continue at all times to have incoming calls handled by BT and continue to keep your existing BT number.  Please note that Call18185 has a 5p connection fee and charge per minute, rounded up to nearest whole penny.

Thanks:
Thanks to Heinz for his post here (the idea behind this) and to the MSE Team and other Forum members for spotting these and other good deals/special offers.

Many thanks for all the effort that was put into this.

Some  point,s  18185 charge 5p a minute Evenings to call Mobiles not 2p as stated.

Calls to 01/02 numbers via 1899 are free to BT users (just 3p connection) not 1p a min.Weekends I am not sure what a cable supplier has to do with a BT Customer.

Any particular reason why you havent mentioned the new Euphony 24/7 inclusive calls  18 month deal.

Also  when you say
"Compared to the non all-inclusive option mentioned above, Sky's £5 monthly charge is equivalent to approximately 166 daytime geographical calls a month (5 daytime calls each day) with Call1899. "
is it necessary to say daytime calls,when it equals that whatever time you make them?

Hi Orsonkart,

I've made those amendments.  I'm working on the cable version of this and I had the call prices for geographicals mixed up - it's sorted now.


wrote on Sep 18^th, 2006 at 4:57pm:

Many thanks for all the effort that was put into this.

I got the idea from Heinz very handy post on MSE.


wrote on Sep 18^th, 2006 at 4:57pm:

Also  when you say "Compared to the non all-inclusive option mentioned above, Sky's £5 monthly charge is equivalent to approximately 166 daytime geographical calls a month (5 daytime calls each day) with Call1899. " is it necessary to say daytime calls,when it equals that whatever time you make them?

I've only mentioned it really because I've compared the inclusive plan to that of using Call1899 daytime and Primus during evening & weekends.  Trying to point out that it may not always be cheaper to have an inclusive plan dependings on usage of daytime calls.

With Primus the Daytime rate doesn't kick in until 08:00.

I have today updated the 0845/0870 rates as BT's new rates for these numbers came into effect on 1st October.





BexTech wrote on Oct 1^st, 2006 at 1:01pm:

With Primus the Daytime rate doesn't kick in until 08:00.

Thanks for that, I didn't realise.  I'm going to keep at 6am to save confusion though as BT and other main competitors are at 6am.

As pointed out by acezing in this thread and as mentioned on MSE, Call1899 are increasing their connection fee from 3p to 4p.

Due to this, I've now amended the Cheapest Call Providers thread accordingly and removed Call1899 and replaced it with Call18185 as they both charge 4p connection fee but Call18185 is cheaper on other type of calls like 0845/0870, etc compared to Call1899.

I have been a 1899 user for approx. 12 months now and was interested to read your proposal that this method of calling could be used in conjuntion with primus saver 2 to benefit from free weekend and evening calls. How would this work ? Would I register with Primus and continue to prefix my daytime calls with 1899, would primus be aware of what am I doing, are they happy/condoning of this, could they stop it ? Are primus not suspicious of very low daytime call usage ? Are there any drawbacks ?          

I would be interested to hear of any first hand experiences, particularly of primuses level of customer service.

thank you

jo  

jocrow wrote on Oct 28^th, 2006 at 12:29pm:

How would this work ? Would I register with Primus and continue to prefix my daytime calls with 1899

That's correct.

Quote:

would primus be aware of what am I doing, are they happy/condoning of this, could they stop it ? Are primus not suspicious of very low daytime call usage ? Are there any drawbacks ?

Primus aren't aware that you are bypassing them.  They may not like it (which company would?) but even if they did know there is nothing they can do to stop you from using Call1899/Call18185.  So long as you continue to pay your linerental to BT then you are free to choose any number of providers, or different ones depending on type of number called and/or time of day, etc.

You may want to consider moving to Call18185 as they are cheaper for 0845/0870, mobile calls and charge the exact same as Call1899 for geographical 01/02 calls (ie 4p per call).

You may also want to consider getting an Orchid Dialler box as mentioned in my posts as this would save you having to remember to dial 1899 during the daytime to route your calls via them.  It can be setup to route calls depending on type of call and/or time of day.  This would mean you just dial numbers as normal without having to remember daytime before 6pm to prefix with 1899.

I'm on Primus now and there have been one or two problems reported on the MSE forum about getting charged for freephone but this was rectified.  I also believe they are expensive for 084x/087x calls (like most other providers to be honest) which is why Call18185 is better for these type of calls and only use Primus during the evening & weekends for geographical calls.

thanks for that prompt and informative response.

I have today signed up to the primus saver 2 option. My only downside seems to be that B.T. have informed me that i will lose the "number withheld" facility. is there any prefix number that i can dial to occassionly give me the anonimity that is sometimes desirable, or would this become too cumbersome, particularly when used in conjuntion with 1899 ?

jocrow wrote on Nov 1^st, 2006 at 10:59am:

thanks for that prompt and informative response. I have today signed up to the primus saver 2 option. My only downside seems to be that B.T. have informed me that i will lose the "number withheld" facility. is there any prefix number that i can dial to occassionly give me the anonimity that is sometimes desirable, or would this become too cumbersome, particularly when used in conjuntion with 1899 ?

It is true that the BT facility to permanently withhold your CLI is disabled when you make calls via another provider.

I assume that, on the odd occasion that you currently want to send your CLI (e.g. to F&F so their Caller Display will show it's you calling) you use the 1470 facility to override the permanant withhold and force the CLI to be sent.

Similarly, you can withhold your CLI for individual calls by using a 141 prefix.  If you use an Orchid V4 LCR, you can program that prefix for all calls.

jocrow wrote on Nov 1^st, 2006 at 10:59am:

I have today signed up to the primus saver 2 option. My only downside seems to be that B.T. have informed me that i will lose the "number withheld" facility.

That's weird as we're with Primus and our number is withheld.  Now whether BT or Primus withhold this then I have no idea.  When we moved to Primus, I never had to ask Primus to withhold our number it was just withheld as it was before when we were on BT.

I'd wait and see if the number is withheld first after you switch over and take it from there.

Hi all,

I,ve had enough of BTs whole minute charging already, 14p charge for a one second call to my son's mobile! I am about to change over to Sky but I have grown so used to checking my recent calls and am unsure what Sky provides, do they do itemised billing at all and is it monthly or quarterly, they also say that they have no premium rate call barring, seems strange!

parttimepar wrote on Nov 10^th, 2006 at 10:41pm:

I,ve had enough of BTs whole minute charging already, 14p charge for a one second call to my son's mobile! I am about to change over to Sky but I have grown so used to checking my recent calls and am unsure what Sky provides, do they do itemised billing at all and is it monthly or quarterly, they also say that they have no premium rate call barring, seems strange!

It is my belief that itemised billing is possible but not sure if its online only type of thing.  I'd be surprised if a teleco wouldn't provide itemised billing as us customers do & would need to know (and check) that we're getting billed correctly.

I totally agree with you on that!!! :)

Thanks to this thread the one on MSE with regards to the incase in 0870 rates by Call18185, I have now updated my thread accordingly.

I see that 18185 are revelling in their success by raising their prices.

Calls to UK mobiles are now 6p per minute during weekdays and as from tomorrow (16 Jan 07) the connection charge will be 5p.

This makes the more expensive than call1899 (until 1899 put up their connection charge)!!  >:(

FelixTCat wrote on Jan 15^th, 2007 at 4:46pm:

I see that 18185 are revelling in their success by raising their prices. Calls to UK mobiles are now 6p per minute during weekdays and as from tomorrow (16 Jan 07) the connection charge will be 5p. This makes the more expensive than call1899 (until 1899 put up their connection charge)!!  >:(

Thanks for that info.  I've updated accordingly.

According to this thread on MSE, it appears Call1899 are also increasing their connection charge to 5p as well.

Quote:

Please note that BT has a 3p connection fee for calls beginning 01/02

The 3p connection charge also applies to 08xxx calls if made from residential lines.

Hi

I just would like confirmation that if I buy an Orchid dialler i will be able to program access numbers from various companies so that i can dial Spain from www.dialwise.co.uk and 'Another country' from a similar supplier without there being any problems.

Welcome to the SayNoYTo0870 forum DarrylRomm.

Yes, that's certainly possible.

However, with the frequency with which gateway providers like that change their rates (and, therefore, change numbers), I'd not recommend using any of them (you may wish to consider THIS program and the associated simple update procedure instead).

When ordering your Orchid, don't forget to mention Money Saving Expert to get 20% discount and, when speaking to Maggie or Toby, mention my username too.

No, I don't get commission.

Heinz

Thank you for the welcome, and thanks for the links.  I will digest what is on offer there, but I think I understand. I have already spoken to Maggie & Toby and they certainly are extremely helpful.  

I have used www.dialwise.co.uk for 6 months.  I can't claim to phone Spain that often, but I should imagine about 6 or 7 times a month is possible. 0.5p per min & no connection charge is very different to 4p connection and 1p per min (18185) on a 10 minute call.  If they change the rate, do they have to change the number?  If so I would consider this a fail safe, as I assume the dial out would just fail.  I would love to here from others on the longtivity of access numbers from this particular company as I really need Spain all the time. (other countries I can live with default (18185).


Thanks in advance, and what a great site.  I've been lurking for ages, and I think those responsible for the running and posting here should be applauded.  I have seen so many good forums degenerate into utter trash sometimes, but not this one.

DarrylRomm wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2007 at 9:12pm:

I have used www.dialwise.co.uk for 6 months.  I can't claim to phone Spain that often, but I should imagine about 6 or 7 times a month is possible. 0.5p per min & no connection charge is very different to 4p connection and 1p per min (18185) on a 10 minute call.  If they change the rate, do they have to change the number?  If so I would consider this a fail safe, as I assume the dial out would just fail.

18185's connection charge has now gone up to 5p and, yes, their charge is 1p/minute thereafter to call Spain (OH spends 45p or so each week calling her sister).

With regard to gateway providers using 0844, 0871 and 09 numbers, yes, they do have to change their numbers if they want to raise (or lower) prices - because the 4th, 5th, 6th and, sometimes 7th digits determine the price callers pay (see HERE) and, hence, their cut.

The problem with gateway numbers is that users start paying for the call as soon as they've dialled the 11th digit and before they've even started dialling their 'target' number.  Hence, a failed call (e.g. 'target'  number engaged) is not free (as it would be using 18185, 1899 etc).

Your 'failsafe' idea may be correct although I'd expect a gateway provider to put a message on a superseded number giving the new number - so you'd pay at least a little to hear that (3p 'call set-up fee' plus a few seconds at whatever per minute on BT).

Heinz


I was all set for option 1 as set out by bbb_uk using Primus savers option 2 and listening to you advise on 18185 for international, but then this:

http://www.euphonyuk.com/pages/eutalk18.html


I don't like 18 month contract, and it's a bit late at night to do the sums, but it works out at a monthly rate of £4.33.  It replaces 18185 to 01/02 during week days and my international call costs.  Any comments on Euphony (a lot can happen in 18 months in the sector)?

DarrylRomm wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2007 at 11:00pm:

I don't like 18 month contract, and it's a bit late at night to do the sums, but it works out at a monthly rate of £4.33.  It replaces 18185 to 01/02 during week days and my international call costs.  Any comments on Euphony (a lot can happen in 18 months in the sector)?

Well spotted.  I have no personal experience of Euphony but neither have I heard/read any negative comments.

Their euTalk+ CPS packages are two of the 'possible alternative CPS providers' detailed at the bottom of my MSE page because they appear to offer good value despite their 60 minute limit on calls (redial to avoid charges) as opposed to Primus's 90 minutes, might be a problem for some and, as you say, the contract length could be considered a negative.  OTOH, if you only need an 'all inclusive' UK 01/02 calls package, £4.33 is an excellent price - and, then, free calls to one or more of the 28 countries would be considered a bonus.

In any case, they are CPS packages, so 1899, 18185 and 1886 are still all accessible as fallbacks if necessary.

I've done the sums for myself and, even with the OH making a 45 minute call each week to her sister in Spain, Primus Saver Option 2 and 18185 for the occasional weekday daytime call is the winning package for me.

OTOH, my elderly mother's mainly daytime use is now reaching the stage where I may well have to get her to change (at the moment, she's 'another number' on my 18185 account so I pay for her calls).

We had been using 18185 for practically all our UK calls as it was usually cheaper and never dearer that BT Option 1 but the latest BT rate changes effective 01/08/07 have really mudied the water (see below). Let's hope for a response from 18185.

BT rates based on Option 1 effective 01/08/07
Cheaper rate is in bold

Daytime, Evening & Weekend times
Daytime:      6am - 6pm Monday to Friday
Evening:      6pm - 6am Monday to Friday
Weekend:      All day Saturday & Sunday (from 01/08/07 BT weekend rates abolished and  Daytime /  Evening Structure applies)

Geographical Calls (those beginning 01 or 02)

Daytime:
5p per call - not min (18185)
6p set-up fee +3.25p/min (BT)

Evening & Weekend:
5p per call - not min (18185)
4.5p  up to 60min (BT)

0845

Daytime:
5p set-up fee + 3p/min (18185)
6p set-up fee + 2p/min (BT)

Evening:
5p set-up fee + 0.5p/min (18185)
6p set-up fee + 0.5p/min (BT)

Weekend Days:
5p set-up fee + 0.5p/min (18185)
6p set-up fee + 2p/min (BT)

Weekend Evening:
5p set-up fee + 0.5p/min (18185)
6p set-up fee + 0.5p/min (BT)


0870
(Assumes call longer than 1min)

Daytime:
5p set-up fee + 6p/min (18185)
6p set-up fee + 6p/min (BT)

Evening:
5p set-up fee + 4p/min (18185)
6p set-up fee + 1.5p/min (BT)

Weekend Days:
5p set-up fee + 2p/min (18185)
6p set-up fee + 6p/min (BT)

Weekend Evening:
5p set-up fee + 2p/min (18185)
6p set-up fee + 1.5p/min (BT)

077x, 078x, 079x (Mobile) Calls

Daytime:
5p set-up fee + 6p/min (18185)
6p set-up fee + 12.5p/min (BT)

Evening:
5p set-up fee + 6p/min (18185)
6p set-up fee + 7.5p/min (BT)

Weekend Days:
5p set-up fee + 3p/min (18185)
6p set-up fee + 12.5p/min (BT)

Weekend Evening:
5p set-up fee + 3p/min (18185)
6p set-up fee + 7.5p/min (BT)

Please note that BT Option 1 has a 6p (from 01/08/07) set-up fee for all calls except evening and weekend call to geographic numbers.

Call18185 has a 5p connection fee for all calls

You need to consider Primus 2 Saver for your Evening / weekend geographical calls.
0p connection
0p per min to a max of 90 mins per call


(When is the new release of your very excellent table Heinz?)




~Edited by bbb_uk: Title amended

a very nice man wrote on Jul 19^th, 2007 at 3:57pm:

When is the new release of your very excellent table Heinz?

My ''6-Steps" page was updated 3 days ago - to reflect the impending BT price increases/changes.

There'll be 4 minor alterations to the Orchid program on 1/8/07 too.  That, of course, will result in those subscribed to the semi-automatic update service receiving an e-mail from Orchid prompting them to force their dialler(s) to call home.

Great to read all that others have spent lots of time reseaching, much appreciated. I am currently using Tiscali as phone call provider while continuing to rent line from BT. I am on Tiscali's Anytime Talk II plan which is linked to Tiscali Max Unlimited Broadband. I get all local and national U.K. calls free 24/7 but after a month of the service have found I get charged for 08 prefixed numbers. I'm just checking with Tiscali if that includes 0800 numbers and will post a follow up when I get a reply. I now am very careful to try to avoid non-geographic 084 and 087 numbers. It's not always possible, some companies have, to date avoided anyone finding out their geographic code number.

jaydee51 wrote on Oct 6^th, 2007 at 1:21pm:

... I'm just checking with Tiscali if that includes 0800 numbers ...

0800 (as are 0808 and 0500) are freephone numbers and are free from UK landlines. Charges for numbers on Tiscali's call packages can be downloaded from its website here. For 'charge bands', refer to BT's Price List. 08 charge bands are here and 09s are here.

Thanks Dave, I had been to the Tiscali charge pages but found them overdetailed.

Looking at the BT web  site, I must admit I was not sure how much 08 numbers cost.

Having seen this, I was quite surprised. I thought it was much more expensive. Am I missing something? I know this is probably ex VAT.


New Rate 7 Days a week
0845      
     
Daytime: 2ppm
Evenings: 0.5ppm

     
New Rate 7 Days a week
0870      


Daytime: 6ppm
Evenings: 1.5ppm

This is from 1st August 2007.

This is correct. Rates apply 7 days a week. So "Daytime" is Mon-Sun 6am to 6pm and "Evening" is Mon-Sun 6pm to 6am.

Geographical (01/02) calls are still charged as per daytime/evening/weekend time periods.

Thanks for that Dave. :)

http://www.call18185.co.uk/ seems to no longer exist

That's because it's now http://www.18185.co.uk/

Ah ok, the first post has all the links wrong. They all link to CALL18185.co.uk not 18185.co.uk :)

There seems to be a problem with 18185. Be aware!

UK fixed line to UK fixed line should be free (+5p connection).

Call charge message is now stating 10p per minute. Thinking this was a mistake I connected but immediately checked my account and found I was being charged at 10p per minute. Web site still shows no call time charge..