If I am correct '03' numbers will be available shortly.

Many 0870 users deny they benefit from shared revenue - "Benefits of call routing, old boy, single number for the dumb wee customer" etc.

Could we (how to organise it?) write to those protesting their innocence of a scam and ask them for a committment to take up '03' as obviously there would be no disincentive.

Might make an interesting piece for a friendly newspaper

BBC anyone?

The problem is that I think that having an 03x number is going to cost companies, gov depts, etc money whereas their 0845 number in most cases doesn't and they earn a little money back as mentioned by idb in his thread here so what incentive is there going to be for such companies, gov depts to start using 03x especially since 0845 / 087x is still referred to as local/national rate by the teleco's themselves.

My FOI to DWP re JobSeekers enquiry number, pointed out and provided proof that such terms are misleading and that calls to such numbers from payphones and mobiles cost more (still upto 40ppm from some mobiles).  They were surprised at what I had to say and this I believe is why they replied to an Ofcom consultation and pointed out that they took their 0845 number on the belief it was charged as local rate which isn't true.

bbb_uk wrote on Oct 4^th, 2006 at 12:17pm:

The problem is that I think that having an 03x number is going to cost companies, gov depts, etc money whereas their 0845 number in most cases doesn't and they earn a little money back as mentioned by idb in his thread here so what incentive is there going to be for such companies, gov depts to start using 03x especially since 0845 / 087x is still referred to as local/national rate by the teleco's themselves. My FOI to DWP re JobSeekers enquiry number, pointed out and provided proof that such terms are misleading and that calls to such numbers from payphones and mobiles cost more (still upto 40ppm from some mobiles).  They were surprised at what I had to say and this I believe is why they replied to an Ofcom consultation and pointed out that they took their 0845 number on the belief it was charged as local rate which isn't true.

I see the problem, but is there not a charge anyway to set up 0845/0870, either as setup & rental or hidden in only a partial rebate?

In this case is 03x going to be more expensive?

farci wrote on Oct 4^th, 2006 at 9:32am:

If I am correct '03' numbers will be available shortly. Many 0870 users deny they benefit from shared revenue - "Benefits of call routing, old boy, single number for the dumb wee customer" etc.

Sometimes it's true.
I receive calls to an 0870 number and other officials in the same organisation receive calls to other 0870 numbers. No revenue sharing (call volume too low). No rental. No set up cost. It is an association run by volunteers. We're not selling goods or services. Officials are elected or appointed annually or bi-ennially. The destination number of each 0870 can be changed at will when the office-holder changes, or goes on holiday, or even twice daily between the home number and office number - at no cost if it's done through the web. And 'redirect on no-answer' can be useful.

farci wrote on Oct 4^th, 2006 at 1:42pm:

I see the problem, but is there not a charge anyway to set up 0845/0870, either as setup & rental or hidden in only a partial rebate?

Some providers dont have a setup charge or additional line rental for their 084/087 numbers.  In some cases there may not even be a charge or if there is a charge there may be a very small charge for IVR menus (press 1 for this, 2 for that, etc) or for intelligent call routing, etc.

Whereas its almost very certain that any 03x will incur a setup fee and/or montly charge for these services that may currently be provided for free (or for very little) via an 0845 number.  The reason is that 0845 teleco use the revenue they get from the call to offset/subsidise any additional features like IVR and/or intelligent call routing, etc an end company may use with their 0845.


Quote:

In this case is 03x going to be more expensive?

Yes, I believe so for the company/gov dept, etc wanting to use an 03x number.

Basically, 03x will become more expensive for companies/gov depts than their 0845 numbers but us end consumers benefit instead by cheaper calls to them or even it being included in inclusive call plans.

I could be wrong but I'm sure when 0845 first came out that companies/gov depts using an 0845 had to contribute so much per minute for every minute us consumers spent calling the 0845.  In other words it was really expensive for bigger call centres due to the volume of calls they received.

If teleco's offering 03x numbers decide to charge companies/gov depts so much per minute for every minute us consumers call an 03x number (similar thing to 0845 when first invented) then this and/or the additional monthly charge is going to put companies/gov depts off migrating as it would cost them more money.

Bottom line is there will be very little incentive for companies/gov depts to migrate from 0845 to 03x.  It's only us consumers that benefit at the expense of companies/gov depts.

I don't mean to sound like I'm on the side of companies/gov depts as I'm just trying to convey the message that there is very little incentive to migrate from 0845 to 03x.

Any company doing so is actually putting their customers first and thinking of them instead of just thinking of the profits they'll possibly lose by using an 03x number.

They will also complain there's all the expense of advertising the new number. Funnily enough,  this doesn't seem to deter them from moving from geographical to 087 or 0844. And I bet quite a few will move to 0871 or 084 once revenue sharing ends on 0870.

jrawle wrote on Oct 4^th, 2006 at 4:36pm:

They will also complain there's all the expense of advertising the new number. Funnily enough,  this doesn't seem to deter them from moving from geographical to 087 or 0844. And I bet quite a few will move to 0871 or 084 once revenue sharing ends on 0870.

I agree  [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]

According to Ofcom, they hope it will be around November when they make changes to the National Telephone Numbering Plan and that hopefully it'll be around February before companies/gov departments will be able to use them.

I'm guessing the delay between modification to the Telephone Numbering Plan and the numbers available for general use by companies/gov depts depends on how quick all communication providers update their system to allow for dialling 03x numbers, etc and how quick the communication providers are at advertising these new 03x numbers with relevant costs, etc so companies/gov depts can then approach them for an 03x number.

In keeping with general BT costs, I can imagine BT's 03x number range for companies/gov depts being the most expensive out of all communication providers.

pw4 wrote on Oct 4^th, 2006 at 2:13pm:

Sometimes it's true. I receive calls to an 0870 number and other officials in the same organisation receive calls to other 0870 numbers. No revenue sharing (call volume too low). No rental. No set up cost. It is an association run by volunteers. We're not selling goods or services. Officials are elected or appointed annually or bi-ennially. The destination number of each 0870 can be changed at will when the office-holder changes, or goes on holiday, or even twice daily between the home number and office number - at no cost if it's done through the web. And 'redirect on no-answer' can be useful.

Remind which bunch of call centre ripoff artists you work for pw4.  Its not Capita by any chance is it? ;)

Also what would be your annual salary in this role.

All the facilities you describe can be provided on geographic numbers without cost to the caller.

I utterly despise your periodic pathetic attempts to try to still defend the outrageous evils of the 084/7/09/070 scam industries including the biggest shyster of the lot - Patientline.

farci wrote on Oct 4^th, 2006 at 9:32am:

If I am correct '03' numbers will be available shortly.

I highly doubt they will be available before Ofcom's launch of the new National Telephone Number Plan which I believe is still several years away.  And certainly not before 0870 finally become National Rate on 1st Feb 2008.

Of course if you know different then please do tell.

wrote on Oct 7^th, 2006 at 12:46am:

farci wrote on Oct 4th, 2006 at 9:32am: If I am correct '03' numbers will be available shortly. I highly doubt they will be available before Ofcom's launch of the new National Telephone Number Plan which I believe is still several years away.  And certainly not before 0870 finally become National Rate on 1st Feb 2008. Of course if you no different then please do tell.

Did you read my earlier post as according to Ofcom, the 03x range is expected early next year (2007).

Also, I thought it was January 2008 when 0870 numbers will be removed from the NTS condition (ie lose the revenue share), have Ofcom postponed it a month?

bbb_uk wrote on Oct 7^th, 2006 at 6:22pm:

Did you read my earlier post as according to Ofcom, the 03x range is expected early next year (2007). Also, I thought it was January 2008 when 0870 numbers will be removed from the NTS condition (ie lose the revenue share), have Ofcom postponed it a month?

Yes Ofcom announced at the last NTS Focus Group with the telecoms industry that they would make it 1st Feb 2008 because one Ofcom document said Feb 2008 and another x months after the NTNP review came out.  See the minutes posted in idb's thread about the NTS Focus Group minutes yesterday.

I see you pass no comment on who deleted my post about Daniel's claims in his recent national newspaper press release that he only runs this site out of love and for the good of mankind and not isntead for the numerous unsuitable cash earning click thru links that frequently litter his site, such as the latest outrageous one for GrabAGrand.

Seems strange bbb_uk that one of my posts should be deleted by Daniel (admin), DaveM or Dave and for you to not even know the reasons for this as a fellow moderator? ;) :o