Shiggaddi,

You sent me a PM asking about the senior management of Vodafone.  Unfortunately although I received the PM as I do not yet have 30 messages in the forum under this ID I cannot reply to your message by PM.

You can find the senior management of Vodafone in the following places:-

The Directors of Vodafone UK are at:-

http://www.vodafone.com/mc_section_search_results/0,3223,OPCO%253D40018%2526MT_ID%253Dim%2526CATEGORY_ID%253D20103%2526LANGUAGE_ID%253D0%2526CONTENT_ID%253D218292,00.html?OPCO=40018&MT_ID=im

The Directors of Vodafone Group Plc (the group holding company for the whole brand) are at:-

http://www.vodafone.com/mc_section_search_results/0,3223,LANGUAGE_ID%253D0%2526MT_ID%253Dim%2526CONTENT_ID%253D218292%2526OPCO%253D40000%2526CATEGORY_ID%253D20103,00.html?OPCO=40000&MT_ID=im

Email address format is firstname.lastname@vodafone.com

Thanks for this.

The reason I needed this info, is because I got a mobile from Dial-a-phone in May last year, and in order to get the cashback for the line rental, you have to send in a claim every few months, to get a portion of the line rental paid to your airtime account.

You have to send it to Dial-a-phone, and Vodafone's only involvement is receiving the money, and crediting it to my airtime account.

However, I sent in the claim as normal to dial-a-phone at the end of August, and my money has not been credited to my Vodafone airtime account.  After calling Vodafone customer services, they confirmed that they had not received this money.

Dial-a-phone are one of the worse abusers of 0870, making a very complicated call menu, where you have to go through their voice recognition before even being allowed to join their 30 minute queue.  I did however manage to speak to the supervisor on the sales line (answered immediately) who said that I need to write a letter to Dial-a-phone.

I got written confirmation from Vodafone that they haven't received the money, and sent a copy to Dial-a-phone.  All I got back from Dial-a-phone was a letter saying that they sent it to Vodafone, and I should chase it up with them.

All in all, neither party wants to take leadership of the missing money.  I had a call from someone from Vodafone earlier today, saying they're well aware of Dial-a-phone's cowboy tactics and have stopped them selling phones on their network, because of the ill will, from numerous customers (glad I'm not alone then!!)

I feel that Vodafone should follow the lead set by O2, and not allow airtime accounts to be credited.  All other networks on Dial-a-phone, to claim the money back, you get issued with a cheque instead, and this stops dial-a-phone from being able to pass the buck to the network operators, as they can only write a cheque, and no responsibility lies with the network in the process.

But because Vodafone allow cashback to be paid in this way, dial-a-phone can avoid paying out cashback and force customers to go between 2 companies, neither of which will take ownership.  It suits Dial-a-phone, because they can say it's been paid, and they fulfilled their part of the bargain, and vodafone can say they have no record of the payment, and there's nothing they can do.

However, by writing to the board of directors at vodafone, with this problem, they might stop Dial-a-phone from operating in this manner.  Luckily, they have already taken some action and vodafone is no longer available from dial-a-phone.

Anyway, how can I recover this money?  Surely if I owed someone some money, and sent it to their bank account, and the money didn't reach the other side, I'd want to chase things up and ask why.  Dial-a-phone are not in the least bit concerned that money they sent for me didn't arrive, which might suggest that they didn't even send it, or someone in accounts made an error, and it was sent somewhere else.  If that was the case, then surely they still owe me the money, and it's up to them to investigate where the money has gone and why it's not appeared on my account.

Vodafone also advised that I should start legal proceedings against dial-a-phone, to recover this money.  Anyway, the advice to everyone reading this, is NEVER EVER BUY A PHONE FROM DIAL-A-PHONE!!!!

Shiggaddi,

I wish you best of luck but personally I would never buy another mobile phone or any other product from a retailer like The Link Or DialAPhone who claim you will get further cash back in months 4 7 10 etc if only you send in your bills in a very short time period.  Actually come to think of it I never did buy one with these Cashback terms having inquired about how they worked and knowing that I personally would not be able to fulfil them (and also suspecting a scam because of all the obvious pitfalls that let you fall foul of getting the cashback).

I regard all such offers as a scam that should be made illegal by the Office of Fair Trading personally.  And certainly I would not class as actually being free line rental any offer of line rental dependent on giving you the money back later under restrictive conditions in this way.

I would email the CEO and marketing people of Vodafone UK and see if you get anywhere.  Failing that I would suggest approaching Trading Standards and assuming that DialAPhone prove intransigent then file an online claim in the Small Claims Court which I have never done but which reputedly is very easy to do and the only thing that makes sharks like DialAPhone sit up and take notice.

I wish you best of luck but personally I would never buy another mobile phone or any other product from a retailer like The Link Or DialAPhone who claim you will get further cash back in months 4 7 10 etc if only you send in your bills in a very short time period.  Actually come to think of it I never did buy one with these Cashback terms having inquired about how they worked and knowing that I personally would not be able to fulfil them (and also suspecting a scam because of all the obvious pitfalls that let you fall foul of getting the cashback).

In my case, actually qualifying for the cashback wasn't the issue.

They do rely on people forgetting to send in the claims, but I had done all of this, and even got an acknowledgement saying they would be crediting my airtime account.  When I wrote to Dialaphone, they did not they sent the money, so they are not avoiding the issue of whether I qualify for the payment, they're just saying it's been paid as far as they're concerned.

It does look like Vodafone have taken notice, because they no longer allow dialaphone to sell phones on their network, down purely to the number of complaints.  They should go one step further, and not allow payment through airtime accounts for current customers.  Orange still allow this, and I'll be bringing the matter to their attention, even though my Orange phone is on E2save, which incidently have paid all my cashback claims so far (hopefully so far so good!!)  O2 stopped allowing this practice, and T-Mobile, and 3 have either never allowed it, or stopped allowing it years ago with dialaphone.

E2save pay claims for all networks via cheque, and so far I have always been paid shortly after sending in the claim.  The only way they can wriggle out of it, is claiming my cashback claim was lost in the post, but they do insist on sending it in recorded delivery.

I shall certainly be involving trading standards with this issue, and I might even involve trading standards in Vodafone's area, and sending a joint e-mail to both.  I don't think Vodafone will be too happy being involved in all this mess, but seeing as the money has been lost between Dialaphone sending it, to me receiving it via vodafone, then both companies should be involved.  If it turns out that Dialaphone never did send it in the first place, then this will only strengthen Vodafone's decision not to sell new phones on their network via dialaphone.

Shiggaddi wrote on Oct 26^th, 2006 at 4:57pm:

I shall certainly be involving trading standards with this issue, and I might even involve trading standards in Vodafone's area, and sending a joint e-mail to both.  I don't think Vodafone will be too happy being involved in all this mess, but seeing as the money has been lost between Dialaphone sending it, to me receiving it via vodafone, then both companies should be involved.  If it turns out that Dialaphone never did send it in the first place, then this will only strengthen Vodafone's decision not to sell new phones on their network via dialaphone.

Although as a Vodafone PayAsYouGo customer I know to my cost that they are certainly extremely devious and unscrupulous (for instance hiding the fact that their supposed Passport deal of 75p fixed per incoming call in other EU countries does not apply to calls that originate from the country that you are currently on holiday in and always hiding on their website the real cost of 084 and 087 calls and the fact that they are also excluded from the Passport deal) they are not generally speaking administratively incompetent.

With great respect I would point out that to Vodafone you are just one of ex million new customers a year so they will only change their policy if a large number of other customers complain about this issue.  And I doubt they are going to pay up on behalf of DialAPhone in this case.

So coming back to the original issue I expect we will find going down the road that DialAPhone is in financial trouble and has major cashflow difficulties and that this is why they are withholding your cashback while pretending it has all been paid.  Therefore I would file a small claims court case as soon as possible in order to try and get DialAPhone to pay up before they possibly go belly up in a few months time...............

Good to see you back NGM.  I knew you couldn't stay away for long!

I'm still doing battle with faxing etc.  Parking tickets is my speciality at the moment and have to contend with St Albans council.  They only provide a 0845 number with no geographic alternative and no obvious fax number for the Parking dept.  They insist that all appeals are put in writing.  However if I write I will have to have use Recorded delivery as I need proof that my appeal was served on them which will cost me getting on for a £1.  However if I can fax my appeal to a 01727 number then it's free and my fax provides me the proof that the fax was 'served' on them.  You see how useful the fax is?  I wish that more peope still used them.  Better still, remember the old TELEX?  I'm not sure if anyone uses that at all now, but you certainly had proof that your mesage got through which you don't always get with e-mail even if you ask your mail client (outlook, Mozilla, thunderbird etc) for a receipt.  :)

The fax is still king as far as I am concerned!


Alternative (from Mole Valley originally & now Three Rivers)

Alternative wrote on Oct 26^th, 2006 at 11:35pm:

Better still, remember the old TELEX?  I'm not sure if anyone uses that at all now, but you certainly had proof that your mesage got through which you don't always get with e-mail even if you ask your mail client (outlook, Mozilla, thunderbird etc) for a receipt.  :)

A new business in the financial data industry I was involved in helping set up in 1996/1997 had to create a way to receive telexes electonically using an old fashioned and over priced BT email service called BT Gold.  The data came through to us like any other regular email and could be machine read unlike faxes many of which were incredibly hand written for the daily data being supplied.

Sadly 10 years on the telex is now almost totally dead except perhaps in places like Africa.  The fax will go the same way within a couple more years due to obvious problems like the fax running out of ink or paper and it taking up a whole phone line and not being able to send a message to numerous different people at one go....................

Just look at the number of shops now refusing to take cheques.  Unthinkable 5 years ago but reality today.

I stood in a queue.....oops! line  ;) this morning in a store here and both ladies in front of me paid with a cheque (or should that be check......?). That is not at all unusual - it happens frequently. It seems that it is far more common here to pay by cheque. I have heard that Americans do not like debit cards. I also now understand why I received about 20 cheque books when I opened a bank account!

I'm sure the US banks would like to get rid of them, but they seem to be ingrained in American society.

(bit like 0870 numbers in the UK....... ;D)

mikeinnc wrote on Oct 28^th, 2006 at 10:13pm:

I'm sure the US banks would like to get rid of them, but they seem to be ingrained in American society.

Its only the brave few like Shell and Boots which have banned cheques so far but they aren't exactly being that OTT because to be honest I might only see someone else use a cheque at a shop in front of me may be once or twice a year.  And the fear of the retailers is that anyone still using a cheque is often a fraudster.

Five years ago a large number of older people were still using cheques rather than debit or credit cards.  I think most people prefer debit and credit cards now because its so much easier and quicker than getting an ink written cheque right.  And obviously the savings for the banks are huge compared to cheques.

The banks haven't even had to charge extra for cheques to get rid of them, although saying that I use a Visa credit card that pays me 1% cashback on everything I have bought in the year, so I suppose in fact using a cheque would cost me 1% more each time.

NGMsGhost wrote on Oct 28^th, 2006 at 10:37pm:

.. I use a Visa credit card that pays me 1% cashback on everything I have bought in the year,..

Except that it is the retailer and ultimately you and me that has to finance the cashback.
With a debit card there would, presumably, be less money milked out of retailers by the banks.

Tanllan wrote on Oct 28^th, 2006 at 11:16pm:

Except that it is the retailer and ultimately you and me that has to finance the cashback.

No in this case the card is not advertised in expensive marketing promotions by Conran and instead it sells itself through the high cashback level which is regularly mentioned at sites like www.moneysavingexpert.com so there is actually no additional cost to me or the retailer above the usual fees he pays to Visa.  Basically I would characterise it as the credit card equivalent of making your 0870 calls with 18185.co.uk rather than BT.

As it happens after taking this card I also happened to discuss with MBNA an older dormant affinity brand card with my old University I had taken a couple of years earlier to get my Uni paid £30 or something and me given a free Accurist watch (I'm wearing it now as my 15 year old good quality Citizen packed up a few months back).  As I had rather a high income level then I had a large credit limit on the card and MBNA was doing a 10 month interest free promotion with only a small flat fee for providing the advance (basically I think because it was an old card no longer activedly sold as the cash advance fee was much lower than the one on my Conran card).  Anyhow MBNA is currently lending me quit a sizeable sum for 10 months interest fee which is now earning interest at 5% and should make me a tidy profit.

See www.conran.co.uk/activities/creditcard.html and www.dooyoo.co.uk/credit-card/conran-credit-card/1029664

Add to this that MBNA are about one of the only financial services companies in the UK to use 0800 numbers for all their customer service lines and also unusually have pleasant and empowered human beings and not robots (based up in Chester) on the other end of those lines and I can only say good on you MBNA and up yours Nasty West Credit Cards and banking who always tried to scam me and rook me at every possible turn!

By the way when I'm spending overseas I switch to using my Nationwide Gold Visa as that saves me 2.75% foreign exchange rate levy that MBNA and nearly all other Visa and Mastercards charge which is more than the 1% cashback I would earn on the Conran card.

Credit cards attract a (much) higher transaction charge than debit cards; witness the differential charging on many websites.
Just like when Access and Barclaycard were launched in the UK and the industry stepped in to prevent retailers passing on the surcharge to customers.
The many and various offers are made by those card companies hoping for more business, but the retailers, and so ultimately you and me, pay for those higher charges.
Your investment is canny, but you and I still pay for the privilege of not using the debit card.
And, yes, isn't the Nationwide service excellent.

Sorry, guys, have gone off topic.

Anyhow MBNA is currently lending me quit a sizeable sum for 10 months interest fee which is now earning interest at 5% and should make me a tidy profit.

That is what is known as stoozing, as mentioned by MSE Martin, Motley Fool, and the stoozing website.

I have been doing this for years.  I get credit cards at 0%, then transfer the money to my savings account, and earn interest.  At the end of the 0%, I pay the money back and incur no interest charges, but I keep the interest that is paid to my savings account.

Although slightly off topic, it is close to the way mobile phone retailers sell phones with cashback line rental.  Credit card companies rely on people to miss payments, and forfeit their 0%, or continue with the debt paying 15% interest after the 0% is up.  They also rely on people making purchases on the card, which attract interest, whereas the 0% is for balance transfers only.

Mobile phone retailers employ similair tactics.  They rely on people forgetting to send in claims.  Some companies insist that cashback claims can only be paid if you don't port your number, and continue living at the same address, however when buying the phone, they offer the service where you can port your existing number over!!  However, most companies aren't that rigid with their T&Cs, but are some examples I've seen on other companies websites offering 12 months free line rental.  There was one that insisted on recorded delivery for claims, and enclosure of a 1st class SAE for the cheque!!

Dialaphone have gone one step further, and having sent in my claims as per the T&Cs and qualified for the offer, they just turn around and say that their system states the payment has been made, therefore it must have been made, even though Vodafone have not received it.  Looks like too many people know how to claim what is rightfully theirs, and they have to take additional steps to make sure more people forfeit their claims, by making it 0870 only, and go through complicated voice recognition that keeps mishearing you, then wait in the queue for half an hour.  Means they can make money out of those that give up on the queue by getting 0870 revenue for the queue time, and not pay members of staff to deal with them, and of course not pay out their cashback claim, because they give up!!

This is the most appauling service I've received from any company I've ever dealt with, and I intend to take the matter further through trading standards.

Shiggaddi wrote on Oct 29^th, 2006 at 12:12pm:

This is the most appauling service I've received from any company I've ever dealt with, and I intend to take the matter further through trading standards.

BBC Watchdog, Trading Standards and/or a claim against DialAPhone in the small cliams court remain your obvious ways ahead in resolving this.

DialAPhone are a very old mobile phone store vending brand.  Either they are about to go bust or someone less ethical has recently taken them over?

Tanllan wrote on Oct 29^th, 2006 at 9:47am:

Credit cards attract a (much) higher transaction charge than debit cards; witness the differential charging on many websites. Just like when Access and Barclaycard were launched in the UK and the industry stepped in to prevent retailers passing on the surcharge to customers. The many and various offers are made by those card companies hoping for more business, but the retailers, and so ultimately you and me, pay for those higher charges.

Of course now though it is legal to impose a surcharge for paying by credit card and some do, most notoriously the Ryanairs and Easyjets of this world who charge an unfair flat fee of £4 per booking (a huge percentage on a super cheapy of £30 to £50 return all in).  However outside the travel industry no one does seem to charge extra for credit cards (their choice).

I do consider using Switch where the merchant offers me a lower price.  Unfortunately though Switch is the worst payment method to use for an expensive online purchase like a notebook computer since if you buy your notebook PC for say £20 less than a reputable firm on a £700 purchase from DellBoy's bucket shops inc (or from a company in the USA) and it turns out to be a refurb or pre-owned when you get it you have no rights to put the transaction in dispute and all you can do is go to the Police or Trading Standards.  In the same way that Direct Debit is the safest and most protected way to pay for something unfortunately Switch is the most dangerous and gives you almost as few rights as paying for something in cash does.  No chargebacks, no nothing unfortunately unless you can prove the card number and CVV number was obtained illegally.  But if the goods are not up to standard Switch cannot help.

I agree credit cards have their downsides but they also have many upsides for canny consumers who only take the pluses like the interest free period, these cashback deals and the free balance transfers.  By contrast as far as I can see 084/7 numbers only have a one way downside risk for consumers and no upside?  Just to bring the discussion back into the territory of this forum.

The Conran card is good because it has being paying the 1% cashback for over 5 years without change and everywhere takes Visa.  Although you can get similar cashback on certain Amex or Morgan Stanley credit cards they charge an annual fee and also are in the habit of constantly revising the terms to become worse shortly after you have taken the card out.

GE Money was offering 3% Cashback on groceries and petrol up to £5,000 a year on its Everyday credit card launched in the Spring but have now pulled the deal.  Almost certainly this was a cheap marketing trick as most merchants only pay 2% commission, especially low margin merchants like petrol stations and grocery stores.  Conran Visa pays 1% cashback year after year......

NGMsGhost wrote on Oct 29^th, 2006 at 12:40pm:

I do consider using Switch where the merchant offers me a lower price.  Unfortunately though Switch is the worst payment method to use for an expensive online purchase like a notebook computer since if you buy your notebook PC for say £20 less than a reputable firm on a £700 purchase from DellBoy's bucket shops inc (or from a company in the USA) and it turns out to be a refurb or pre-owned when you get it you have no rights to put the transaction in dispute and all you can do is go to the Police or Trading Standards.  In the same way that Direct Debit is the safest and most protected way to pay for something unfortunately Switch is the most dangerous and gives you almost as few rights as paying for something in cash does.

Switch and Maestro are the same aren't they in that they are really basic debit cards that may not be accepted in all the places as Visa or MasterCard debit cards are.

I generally use my Nationwide debit card for purchasers where I've shopped with them before and not taking a 'chance' otherwise I use Nationwide Visa credit card as credit card offer more protection against companies going into receivership (eg Fairpack) as we can claim back from the credit card company and let them try and chase the money from the company concerned.

bbb_uk wrote on Oct 29^th, 2006 at 4:04pm:

Switch and Maestro are the same aren't they in that they are really basic debit cards that may not be accepted in all the places as Visa or MasterCard debit cards are. I generally use my Nationwide debit card for purchasers where I've shopped with them before and not taking a 'chance' otherwise I use Nationwide Visa credit card as credit card offer more protection against companies going into receivership (eg Fairpack) as we can claim back from the credit card company and let them try and chase the money from the company concerned.

Maestro is of course in fact the replacement pan European branding for Switch if you will recall the tv adverts with the shuffling penguins ("where you saw Switch you'll see Maestro" etc) that ran on tv some time ago - its Mastercard's debit card brand.  Its rival is Visa Debit (formerly called Visa Delta) payment cards like the Nationwide blue cash and debit card.  I understand that as with Switch and Maestro you don't have payment protection as its a debit and not a credit card.  All credit cards offer protection over a certain minimum sum against the goods not being as described etc but protection against insolvency is an add on feature that some credit cards issuers choose to offer on some cards - like my now little used NatWest Gold Plus.  You should always try to use such a credit card with insolvency protection when paying up front for a service with a long subsequent duration like household or car insurance or so called free broadband deals that require you to pay for 18 months up front plus a connection fee like the now late lamented www.euro1net.co.uk

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Debit and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maestro_%28debit_card%29

NGMsGhost wrote on Oct 29^th, 2006 at 5:16pm:

All credit cards offer protection over a certain minimum sum against the goods not being as described etc but protection against insolvency is an add on feature that some credit cards issuers choose to offer on some cards - like my now little used NatWest Gold Plus.

It's my understanding that if you've paid for goods on the credit card (over a certain amount which I think is £100 but I'm sure that was reduced) and they go into insolvency then under the Credit hire agreement the credit cards are liable regardless of whether you have an all singing & dancing gold card, etc.  Things like warranties on electrical goods is an additional benefit available for which Nationwide Credit card has this on as standard.

I always use my credit card wherever possible.  On ebay, I always use paypal with credit card, and give alot of caution to anyone not offering paypal.

If you go to a restaurant, then you settle up, fill up with petrol, or do your weekly shop, there's very little chance of finding something faulty (except food poisoning, lol) but if you order from a mail order company, buy online, or buy electrical goods from the high street, and find that your purchases are faulty after you buy them, then thats where the credit card protection will come in handy.

I used it on an ISP that went bust 6 years ago after offering a one off fee for a years worth of internet.  I also used it on an ebay trader who after building up reasonable feedback, and became a powerseller, ran alot of fake auctions, and then emptied their paypal account, and did a runner.

It is rare that this protection is needed, but like in the case of farepak, and other companies that go bust, it is needed.

Also, online companies that won't take credit cards should again be treated with caution.

Looking here under the paragraph, Protection for credit cards, it reads:-


Quote:

Protection for credit cards If somebody uses your card fraudulently or dishonestly (without your knowledge) for any kind of distance purchase, you can cancel the payment and the card issuer must refund you. You should notify your card issuer as soon as possible after you discover this fraudulent use, or if your card has been stolen.

That gives me the impression that you're covered regardless of the amount which is new and I believe is covered under the Distance Selling Regs 2000.  Normally, under the credit agreement it is over £100 but like I said I could have sworn this was lowered to £50.

Shiggaddi wrote on Oct 29^th, 2006 at 5:24pm:

It is rare that this protection is needed, but like in the case of farepak, and other companies that go bust, it is needed.

So bringing us back to the original topic how exactly did you pay DialAphone for the phone purchase?

Presumably if you paid on a credit card you might be able to put the original payment in dispute due to the cashback not being honoured?

I didn't pay Dialaphone for any purchase, as it was a free phone, and free delivery.

All I did was set up my direct debit details to pass onto vodafone, and I was automatically given their rip off insurance, which I had to cancel, rather than decline at purchase (another sneeky way of ripping off those who forget to cancel)

I then had to send in my airtime bills to dialaphone to claim the money back.  The others all went through with no problems, but it's this final one that is causing headache.  Perhaps they are relying on me cancelling my contract at the end of the 18 months so I can fall foul.  I have given the 30 days notice the other day, and it has just under 4 weeks left to run.

However I put in my claim at the end of August, and since dialaphone claim they have already sent the payment at the beginning of September, I should have had it by now.  At least they're not disputing the fact that I'm entitled to this money.

Shiggaddi wrote on Oct 30^th, 2006 at 11:25am:

All I did was set up my direct debit details to pass onto vodafone, and I was automatically given their rip off insurance, which I had to cancel, rather than decline at purchase (another sneeky way of ripping off those who forget to cancel)

Looks like you have a possible claim under the Direct Debit guarantee scheme since clearly your underlying contractual realtionship appears to be with Voadphone and not DialAPhone.  DialAPhone are only sales agents of Vodaphone who have offered to rebate some of their commission to DialAPhone.

Its a complex one so I would have a discussion with a Trading Standards Officer who should be able to establish where the contractual liability to deliver the promised rebate falls.

What documentation exactly do you have from DialAPhone confirming that they will make these payments if you send in your bills?

To be honest I always expect this kind of nonsense with Cashbacks of this kind from high street mobile phone shops which is why I avoid them.  The PostOffice HomePhone's sytems of just staying with them 6 months to get a £50 rebate worked fine as there was no paperwork to be done or to be caught out by.

The documentation was enclosed in a pack, which I received with the phone.

It clearly stated that I should send my latest bill, on or after a certain date, within 1 month of this date, to the dialaphone claim centre.

I have done this on other contracts I've had through them, and on earlier bills on my vodafone account.

I did have a problem with an O2 account, but they got around this by waiting 2 months before sending the cashback, after which my account was closed, so because it was closed, I fell foul of their rigid T&Cs.

It was after that, when I returned all their recommend a friend offers to sender, stating that I refuse to deal with a cowboy company like them again, and stating that I recommend that people should steer clear of them.  Not seen another recommend a friend offer recently, or sales calls trying to get me another new phone.

This is my very last dealing with them, and despite logging online to see when the payment was made, the problem is that it's gone missing between their account department, and my account.  Whether it's gone missing through incorrect reference numbers to vodafone, or vodafone messing up, or indeed they haven't sent it, has meant that the money has not reached my airtime account as promised.  They have never disputed the fact that I'm entitled to this money.

Shiggaddi wrote on Oct 30^th, 2006 at 1:36pm:

This is my very last dealing with them, and despite logging online to see when the payment was made, the problem is that it's gone missing between their account department, and my account.  Whether it's gone missing through incorrect reference numbers to vodafone, or vodafone messing up, or indeed they haven't sent it, has meant that the money has not reached my airtime account as promised.  They have never disputed the fact that I'm entitled to this money.

But it seems very likely they have never sent the money and this is just an excuse to get out of paying.

Demand proof from their bank that they have made the payment to Vodaphone and if they can't come up with it ask them to make the payment again.  And threaten Watchdog et al too.

Just had a development in the case.

I received my Vodafone bill today, which has now included the Dial-a-phone credit, and lists it as paid on 27 September!!

This fits in with Dial-a-phone paying at the beginning of September, and taking a few weeks before they actually do, but either way, they have sworn blind that they have paid, and if it's showing as paid on 27 September, then Vodafone have been less than honest here.

In my October bill, I didn't receive my Dial-a-phone credit, and upon phoning up vodafone, they confirmed that it hadn't been credited.

They also suggested taking legal action against Dial-a-phone, when infact they have been sitting on this money.

I could understand if this credit was dated very recently, but the fact that it's dated 27 September, would suggest incompetence on the part of Vodafone, and for Dial-a-phone to have paid correctly.

Also, at least they got my bill correct, because my contract ends middle of the month, and I have indeed been charged pro rata for the remaining days.

Glad to get rid of both companies now!!

I certainly think a letter to the CEO of vodafone is on order.  Because of this delay, I have had to write to dial-a-phone, and spend time trying to sort this whole mess out, when infact Vodafone have been in receipt of this money all the time, and I was close to taking dial-a-phone to trading standards, and the courts.

Shiggaddi wrote on Nov 9^th, 2006 at 6:28pm:

Glad to get rid of both companies now!! I certainly think a letter to the CEO of vodafone is on order.  Because of this delay, I have had to write to dial-a-phone, and spend time trying to sort this whole mess out, when infact Vodafone have been in receipt of this money all the time, and I was close to taking dial-a-phone to trading standards, and the courts.

As a current customer of Vodafone and the Liechtenstein mobile phone operator www.united-mobile.com and a former customer of 02 (then called Cellnet) Orange and Three my overall impression is that they are all almost as bad as each other, although you are very ill advised to have relationships with any of them by way of the Carphone Warehouse group as an intermediary.  During my time with them Cellnet proved to be the least customer focused of the lot even requiring you to call an 0870 number on your mobile to reach their customer service centre.

I think O2 do have an 0870 customer services number, but rarely had course to call it.

Vodafone do at least have a service on 191, which is free from my vodafone handset, so talking to customer services was at least free, and I had no trouble getting through.

Dial-a-phone on the other hand, deliberately disconnected their freephone and geo numbers, and the only way I called them was their sales line on 0800, and kicked up a big fuss each time, but their final reply was for me to write to them, which got nowhere, or of course call their 0870 number, which I've called before, and it's almost impossible to speak to someone.

I shall certainly be in contact with Vodafone over this issue, and might will tell them about my calls to dial-a-phone on 0870 (which I never did use in the end) and of course having to write a letter about the issue, during which time Vodafone were sitting on this payment, and Dial-a-phone maintained quite rightly that they had paid (although their customer services could have been more approachable!!)

Vodafone has already stopped Dial-a-phone selling phones on their network.  Perhaps if Vodafone didn't allow dial-a-phone to credit existing customers by line rental credit, or if Dial-a-phone paid by cheque or BACS (like they do on other contracts I've had with them) then this mess wouldn't have happened, or if it did, then Vodafone would not be partly responsible for the mess, and any issue of cashback would lie firmly with Dial-a-phone (and possibly the banking system, and Royal Mail)

Anyway, at least my Vodafone is getting disconnected in a few weeks, and I don't have any more contracts with Dial-a-phone to worry about.  E2save have been so far so good, and have paid by cheque every time as promised.

Shiggaddi wrote on Nov 9^th, 2006 at 9:02pm:

Anyway, at least my Vodafone is getting disconnected in a few weeks, and I don't have any more contracts with Dial-a-phone to worry about.  E2save have been so far so good, and have paid by cheque every time as promised.

But you surely have to accept that at least half the customers of a company offering a restrictive cash back deal like this never get the cash back.  And that this is how they can afford to offer such an apparently low price deal in the first place.

Since I would always be in the 50% who failed to send in their bills on time and so miss the cash back I am never even vaguely tempted to go for such offers.

NGMsGhost wrote on Nov 9^th, 2006 at 11:00pm:

Shiggaddi wrote on Nov 9th, 2006 at 9:02pm: Anyway, at least my Vodafone is getting disconnected in a few weeks, and I don't have any more contracts with Dial-a-phone to worry about.  E2save have been so far so good, and have paid by cheque every time as promised. But you surely have to accept that at least half the customers of a company offering a restrictive cash back deal like this never get the cash back.  And that this is how they can afford to offer such an apparently low price deal in the first place. Since I would always be in the 50% who failed to send in their bills on time and so miss the cash back I am never even vaguely tempted to go for such offers.

Yes, they do rely on people not claiming to make it such a good deal.  With 7 contracts (soon to be 6!!) to keep an eye on, you need to be organised to send in the claims, chase them up when if they don't pay, mark down when they do pay etc.  I do the same with the 0% credit cards.  They rely on people not paying on time, to pay for those like me who don't have debt, and pay off when the 0% ends.  However credit card companies are getting wise to this, and charge a balance transfer fee of about 2-3% which means there's very little profit to be made if you have no debts, however it makes a good deal if you do need to borrow the money, and are likely to need to borrow the money longer at their higher rates!!

NGMsGhost wrote on Oct 26^th, 2006 at 5:27pm:

Although as a Vodafone PayAsYouGo customer I know to my cost that they are certainly extremely devious and unscrupulous (for instance hiding the fact that their supposed Passport deal of 75p fixed per incoming call in other EU countries does not apply to calls that originate from the country that you are currently on holiday in and always hiding on their website the real cost of 084 and 087 calls and the fact that they are also excluded from the Passport deal) they are not generally speaking administratively incompetent.

I've been uneasy about this comment for weeks, as I doubt that it is true.

If roaming on a different network to Vodafone or its associate per country, then normal roaming charges apply, and I suspect that may have happened in this case.