This is not strictly geog nos chat but a request for information regarding Halifax.   Am looking for local banking facilities (am sick of HSBC) & Halifax seem to have a good account BUT they use 0845 nos and that makes me wonder,  if they treat customers that badly to start with, what are they like to deal with eg when, inevitably, they make mistakes with customers' money?   I have looked back through the threads using the search facility and the reports don't make them sound great, particularly the part about not being able to pay into accounts in branch as that is my main purpose!   Also, they seem to be connected to Bank of Scotland & I'm sure I heard something bad about them but cannot remember what its was.   Any experiences on dealing with Halifax, good or bad, would be appreciated.   Again, sorry for being a bit off message (although tel nos come into it) but you are all so helpful I hope you won't mind.   Thanks.

Yes, Halifax are now HBOS (Halifax Bank of Scotland), I was originally with BoS and think that the changes since Halifax came on board have not been good.
Use of 0845 nos is galling (although it can be circumvented, I believe) and being unable to phone your local branch is ridiculous.  The staff at my local Branch (old BoS) are fine and helpful, however, so I stay with them (their High Interest Current account is good).

I bank with Halifax and don't have any complaints and did avoid the 0845 number when I needed to contact them without any problems, however I do most of my banking (personal and business) with Nationwide who I have to say are very helpful particularly at a branch level where they treat you like a human being.

Keith wrote on Nov 7^th, 2006 at 5:13pm:

..I do most of my banking (personal and business) with Nationwide who I have to say are very helpful particularly at a branch level where they treat you like a human being.

I agree with this.  Nationwide have UK call centres (well I've never spoken with an overseas person) and you can still ring your local branch on a geographical number.  Nationwide do have an 0845 in use but on the back of your credit/debit cards, they also freely provide the geographical (for international access) which I always ring without once being questioned as to why I was ringing that number unlike Alliance & Leicester for which I understand from this forum and MSE, will not deal with your enquiry unless you are abroad and force you to ring their 08x number(s).

Keith wrote on Nov 7^th, 2006 at 5:13pm:

I bank with Halifax and don't have any complaints and did avoid the 0845 number when I needed to contact them without any problems, however I do most of my banking (personal and business) with Nationwide who I have to say are very helpful particularly at a branch level where they treat you like a human being.

I have had a Nationwide account for nearly three years now mainly to get the zero cost foreign exchange on their credit and debit cards compared to ripoff charges by NatWest of around 5% (2.75% foreign exchange rate levy and minimum flat withdrawal fee now of £2.50) for taking cash out of a machine overseas.  Also I have a lot of my savings with them in their Esavings account and Cash ISAs.

Nationwide are a customer owned organisation and are totally customer focused.  They have done nothing to annoy me in my time with them.  NatWest (Royal Bank of Scotland) have about 101 deceitful and dishonest practices that infuriate me every time I interact with them.

Although Halifax offer a good rate of interest on the current account my overall impression of them is they have a lot of sharp practices and hidden charges (eg overseas credit card and cash withdrawal fees compared to Nationwide) where they claw that back from you elsewhere.  I also don't care for the general tone, content and imagery of their tv advertising campaigns.

Yes I have been with Nationwide for many years almost as far back as when they were known as the 'Nationwide Anglia' building society.  They merged with Anglia BS back in the 80's then they dropped the Anglia label.  Their internet banking is excellent with their flex (current) account and e-savings - brilliant.  However we know the long the term strategists of the 'globalists' and the international banking elite.  Nationwide will not remain a mutual building society for forever - it will undoubtedly be taken over by a bank, like the Cheltenham & Gloucester were, or it will convert directly itself and then of course everything will change!

Soon after the merger with the Portman BS next year, Nationwide will then be considered big and fat enough to convert directly into a PLC bank itself with the promise of huge windfalls/ free shares to investors and borrowers, but then we will have to get used to call centres in Bangalore and premium rate telephone numbers as they skimp and scrape to pay the shareholders huge wedges twice a year - you mark my words chaps.  This is exactly what happened to the Abbey National as well as others.  With the Abbey, we have sky high penalty charges, premium rate 0845 telephone numbers, call centres in India, no access by phone to your local branch etc etc.  Abbey National used to be a nice BS with good rates for borrowers & savers and you had full access to local branches by phone.  Do you remember 'Get the Abbey habit'?  My local branch has even done away with the free in house telephone booths where you could phone the telephone banking section for example - presumably to save money so that we'll have to phone them from home to earn them 1/2p per minute or whatever they get when we have to ring the 0845 number.

just to get back to phone numbers.

You can contact Halifax free of charge if you use their Callback service via their website. It works well and they call you back within seconds.

The website address is: http://www.halifax.co.uk/savings/callback.shtml

Alternative wrote on Nov 8^th, 2006 at 1:32am:

Nationwide will not remain a mutual building society for forever - it will undoubtedly be taken over by a bank, like the Cheltenham & Gloucester were, or it will convert directly itself and then of course everything will change! Soon after the merger with the Portman BS next year, Nationwide will then be considered big and fat enough to convert directly into a PLC bank itself with the promise of huge windfalls/ free shares to investors and borrowers, but then we will have to get used to call centres in Bangalore and premium rate telephone numbers as they skimp and scrape to pay the shareholders huge wedges twice a year - you mark my words chaps.  This is exactly what happened to the Abbey National as well as others.

I sincerely hope that you are wrong on this.

My own feeling is that Nationwide has a customer base who are all died in the wool Building Society supporters who have moved there from the likes of Abbey National etc, etc.  I personally feel that it will carry on as the one remaining major Building Society but with sufficient economies of scale to compete with the large high street banking PLCs etc.

NGMsGhost wrote on Nov 8^th, 2006 at 9:31am:

Alternative wrote on Nov 8th, 2006 at 1:32am: Nationwide will not remain a mutual building society for forever - it will undoubtedly be taken over by a bank, like the Cheltenham & Gloucester were, or it will convert directly itself and then of course everything will change! Soon after the merger with the Portman BS next year, Nationwide will then be considered big and fat enough to convert directly into a PLC bank itself with the promise of huge windfalls/ free shares to investors and borrowers, but then we will have to get used to call centres in Bangalore and premium rate telephone numbers as they skimp and scrape to pay the shareholders huge wedges twice a year - you mark my words chaps.  This is exactly what happened to the Abbey National as well as others. I sincerely hope that you are wrong on this.

As do I!!!


NGMsGhost wrote on Nov 7^th, 2006 at 8:23pm:

I have had a Nationwide account for nearly three years now mainly to get the zero cost foreign exchange on their credit and debit cards compared to ripoff charges

One of the reasons I got it was for the zero cost foreign exchange for their cards unlike most (if not all) the others'.

I was with TSB for years (since leaving school many, many years ago) and not once got paid interest in my normal account, but yet I get paid interest in my normal account with Nationwide albeit its a very small amount.  When TSB announced it was increasing charges when using abroad, etc I moved to Nationwide and haven't regretted it since.  Nationwide offer things like free extended warranties, etc on some things bought with their credit card whereas TSB offered me nothing - not even on their so-called 'gold' card.

bbb_uk wrote on Nov 8^th, 2006 at 2:49pm:

I was with TSB for years (since leaving school many, many years ago) and not once got paid interest in my normal account, but yet I get paid interest in my normal account with Nationwide albeit its a very small amount.  When TSB announced it was increasing charges when using abroad, etc I moved to Nationwide and haven't regretted it since.  Nationwide offer things like free extended warranties, etc on some things bought with their credit card whereas TSB offered me nothing - not even on their so-called 'gold' card.

You really need to get an MBNA Conran Visa card with 1% cashback on everything for UK use though.  Its a long term discount they have been running for the last five years and not some 3 month marketing come on like most of the other Cashback offers.

And MBNA use 0800 numbers for all their customer contact including customer service and have nice friendly and intelligent staff too. :o :)

Barbara asked about Halifax. A word of advice: don't.
We had several ISAs with them. Halifax invested my wife's in the wrong account with a lower interest rate. They paid the discrepancy with a cheque but of course this fell outside the ISA envelope so became taxable. They said they could not replace the money in her ISA.
Sorting this out was a nightmare because they have three principal offices and one doesn't know what the other is doing.
We tried to open further accounts but received conflicting paperwork from different offices. Even simple matters took ages to resolve and hours on the phone. Over the past 24 months we received two £50 cheques in goodwill payments for our inconvenience but finally we gave up and closed all our accounts.
I wrote to Halifax regretting that I had to end a family association going back more than 50 years but the sheer frustration in dealing with them was impossible.
We have used smile, the Co-Op Bank's internet branch, for the past two years and are well satisfied. They pay 3% interest on our current account. They do use the iniquitous 0870 number but thanks to this site we have the geo alternative. Smile also replies promptly to secure messages from our banking homepage.
You might also check another excellent site www.moneyfacts.co.uk for comparison of a wide range of accounts. This is where we found smile.
Hope this helps ...

Quote:

They (Smile Bank) do use the iniquitous 0870 number but thanks to this site we have the geo alternative.

They actually publish their geographic number on their web site, and never seemed to be concerned if you used it. I think they may well be one of the companies that used the number as a true 'national' call in the very early days. Whether they are locked into some sort of contract, or just don't understand the implications now, I don't know. It is very disappointing they hang on to it, because they make a very big thing about being the 'Ethical Bank' - not investing in areas such as armaments, even though they'd make a squillion bucks!

But 0870 is totally unethical! Come on Smile - if you read this - take a stand and show your true ethical colours! Dump the damn'ed rip-off number!

mikeinnc wrote on Nov 11^th, 2006 at 10:06pm:

But 0870 is totally unethical! Come on Smile - if you read this - take a stand and show your true ethical colours! Dump the damn'ed rip-off number!

Agreed it does not fit in with their ethical stance although I really think forcing the Parliamentary Ombudsman to drop his disgraceful 0845 number and replace it wit a geo should be our first priority.  What hope is there when the supposed last bastion of protection for members of the general public is himself a key part of the whole scam! :o :'(

www.ombudsman.org.uk/contact_us/index.html

Just looked at the link for the complaints bureau.  I note that they provide a geographical number for the fax machine (like many organisations do!) but when it comes down to the phone number, it's a premium rate 0845 number!

I shall send them a written complaint by fax using large point font.  As I have said before, for companies that have fax machines still, a written complaint carries more weight than an e-mail.

Alt.

Alternative wrote on Nov 13^th, 2006 at 11:51am:

I shall send them a written complaint by fax using large point font.  As I have said before, for companies that have fax machines still, a written complaint carries more weight than an e-mail. Alt.

The ombudsman is such a bureaucratic and old fashioned outfit that I would agree in their case fax is likely to be noticed more.

Also you can make your point that the call costs you nothing by fax but would not be free of charge on 0845 too.

You really ought to copy in your MP on the complaint since the Ombudsman scheme interacts directly with Parliament and MPs.

FAX GOING....

The Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman
Millbank Tower
Millbank
London
SW1P 4QP


Message

Dear Sir / Madam

Use of Premium rate telephone numbers
Why do you insist on using a premium rate 0845 telephone number, yet you can still provide a geographical telephone number for your fax machine which I am using now?

0845 numbers are not ‘local rate’ as is commonly thought.  The distinction between ‘national’ and ‘local rate doesn’t exist anymore. They are also specifically precluded from ‘fixed rate’ all inclusive telephone calling plans and are often hideously expensive to ring from mobile telephones.

I find it unacceptable that you would wish to profit by way of ‘kick-back’ revenue from members of the public using the phone to make a complaint about one of the other numerous government departments or NHS that also use ‘premium rate’ revenue generating numbers.

Sending you this fax is free of charge because you have provided a geographical number, but if I rang you on your 0845 number, it would cost me money – including both holding and transfer time.  Not good or fair.

Please change your advertised 0845 to a geographical number beginning 020.  You can do it for your fax machine, so why not for your main number?


                                   Yours faithfully




           

I have a horrible feeling you will get one of those dumb replies assuring you that 0845 really is "local rate" or "lo-call".

I would have headed them off from this by providing the links to the ASA guidances, the COI Government Contact Centre guidance, the trading standards department view and the view of BT Retail's own CEO that demonstrate conclusively that 0845 is anything other than local rate.

But perhaps you are keeping that in reserve for your next letter.

I would fax your letter to your MP as well though asking for his view on the matter.  With any luck he might then write to the Ombudsman challenging them on the matter and asking them to justify their position.

No MP you will note uses anything other than a geographic phone number for their official Parliamentary and constituency offices.

I have amended my fax and it has now been sent.  I have modified the posting so you can all see what I have sent.  I shall keep my powder dry....I will use the links to the ASA etc when I get the inevitable reply which either disregards everything I say or comes up with the usual nonsense that it's a local rate call....

Alt

lompos wrote on Nov 8^th, 2006 at 9:30am:

You can contact Halifax free of charge if you use their Callback service via their website. It works well and they call you back within seconds.

They seem to have other callbacks for different departments besides the savings you mentioned.

It says it's intended for queries about new accounts, but have you used it for ordinary routine calls as well?

If so, I reckon there is a good chance of using the URL of the centre part of the page as a wap/grps bookmark in a mobile - it's only 3k


- It works - well the page loads, but I didn't actually make the call

Quote:

It says it's intended for queries about new accounts, but have you used it for ordinary routine calls as well?

Whenever I have occasion to call the Halifax I always use their callback service.  I can confirm that it works for savings and insurance. In case the of the latter it is insurance sales, but they will put you through to, say, renewals.

By the way, Halifax insurance correspondence gives contact details similar to the Ombudsman: 0845 for calls and a geog. number for faxes. However, this can be bypassed using the callback service.

Thanks. If I'd saved the url in the mobile I could have tried it the other day - it's tricky using the current account system from abroad as the cheapest way I make calls doesn't relay DTMF codes (maybe an excuse if they object). Will they even call mobiles?

mikeinnc wrote on Nov 11^th, 2006 at 10:06pm:

Quote: They (Smile Bank) do use the iniquitous 0870 number but thanks to this site we have the geo alternative. They actually publish their geographic number on their web site, and never seemed to be concerned if you used it.

I just phoned them up on their geographical number to ask if they had a policy of discouraging or preventing calls that don't use the 0870 number, like Alliance and Leicester. I was told they had no problem with use of the geographical number and the person I was talking to said that in any case he couldn't tell which number I'd called on.

He also helpfully suggested that if I couldn't find the geographical number I could look it up on a website called "Ihate0870.com" or something like that!

I'm sure everyone will say there is never any excuse for using an 0870 number nowadays but to be fair to smile there is the slight benefit that their number is easily memorable - 0870 THE BANK (with THE BANK equating to their number 843 2265). If you had to contact them in an emergency and had no way of looking up their number you might be grateful that you could remember even the 0870 number. Your first question when they answered, of course, might be "What's the geographical number?"