75p a minute rip off!!  Fined £5000

http://www.icstis.org.uk/consumers/adjudications/default.asp?node=&id=597

Can a mod sort out the link please :-[

Quote:

Background The Secretariat received a complaint from a member of the public who reported that she had attempted to obtain further information about Click Energy (an online gas/electricity account run by British Gas) by calling a premium rate number. She stated that she was immediately put on hold as ‘no operators were available’ and that she did not wish to pay 75p per minute to be kept on hold. The Secretariat monitored the service and was kept on hold in excess of seven minutes. Having looked further into the matter it also appeared that the service was operating without the required permission and that the introductory message failed to supply the information required by the Code of Practice 10th Edition (amended July 2005) (‘the Code’). Although it appeared unlikely that there was any wilful attempt to mislead or cause consumer harm, it remained the fact that the live service did not have permission and that it was keeping callers on hold for an unreasonable amount of time. It was on those grounds that the Secretariat approached three Committee members with regard to using the Emergency Procedure. The Committee members agreed that whilst it was highly unlikely that British Gas were trying to cause its customers harm, it was operating a live service without permission from ICSTIS. The use of the Emergency Procedure was specifically relevant in this case due to the extensive delay experienced by consumers. It was therefore agreed by all three Committee members that access to the service should be removed under the Emergency Procedure. Breaches of paragraphs 3.3.1, 5.4.1, 4.12 and 7.2.3 of the Code were raised by the Secretariat and an opportunity given to the service provider to respond. A response was received on 17 November 2006 from British Gas Trading. A decision on the breaches raised was made by the Adjudication Panel (‘the Panel’) on 30 November 2006.

Quote:

DELAY (Paragraph 4.12) 1)  It is a requirement that services are not unreasonably delayed. A complainant reported, and monitoring by the Secretariat demonstrated, that callers were put on hold prior to being able to speak to a live operator. Secretariat monitoring demonstrated that this delay could be as long as seven minutes, which it considered to be unreasonable. 2)  The service provider stated that the telephone number originally provided to Click Energy customers was a premium rate number so that if they did elect to contact British Gas by telephone, the telephone charges payable by them would contribute towards the costs to British Gas of providing a call centre service for them, over and above the online service for which they had contracted. Depending on the time of year or time of day there may be wait times to reach an agent. As it could not ensure that the wait time would be 15 seconds or less at all times, it did not propose to operate a premium rate number any longer.

Notice because they couldn't say how long people would wait in a queue for they have opted for a (surprise) stealth premium rate 0870 number instead where they don't have to worry how long consumers are in a queue for - see here.

Quote:

Although it appeared unlikely that there was any wilful attempt to mislead or cause consumer harm, it remained the fact that the live service did not have permission and that it was keeping callers on hold for an unreasonable amount of time

Do these people live in cloud cuckoo land or is it just the establishment thing of one large corporate always covering the back of another. ::) :question

Anyone who studies the terms and conditions of Click Energy will soon realise the whole service is an utter ripoff designed to give the impression of a cheapest possible energy price only to hit you with premium rates for phone calls and which even fines you if you fail to submit a meter reading within a few days of them sending an email asking for one.

As my gas and electricity meters are in a locked basement room owned by the landlord I cannot get often access to it was an easy decision to instead go for the nice people at www.equipower.co.uk who do not have penalty charges for anything and after my pointing out the error of their ways over their 0845 number at director level soon replaced it with an 0800 number.

The people behind Click Energy are cynical scamsters and nothing else.  It is a headline cheap energy service which is not cheap because the low prices are funded by a plethora of ripoff charges. >:( >:( >:(

The miely mouthed ICSTIS should have fined them £100,000 and not £5,000 for such a flagrant abuse of the premium rate system.  What is £5,000 - perhaps one day's annual bonus for their Chief Executive?

bbb_uk wrote on Jan 12^th, 2007 at 12:59pm:

Notice because they couldn't say how long people would wait in a queue for they have opted for a (surprise) stealth premium rate 0870 number instead where they don't have to worry how long consumers are in a queue for - see here.

Surely they would have gone to covert premium rate 0871 at 10p per minute unless ICSTIS surprise us later by actually imposing proper Premium Rate regulation? ;) :o

NGMsGhost wrote on Jan 12^th, 2007 at 10:21pm:

Quote: Although it appeared unlikely that there was any wilful attempt to mislead or cause consumer harm, it remained the fact that the live service did not have permission and that it was keeping callers on hold for an unreasonable amount of time Do these people live in cloud cuckoo land or is it just the establishment thing of one large corporate always covering the back of another. ::) :question Anyone who studies the terms and conditions of Click Energy will soon realise the whole service is an utter ripoff designed to give the impression of a cheapest possible energy price only to hit you with premium rates for phone calls and which even fines you if you fail to submit a meter reading within a few days of them sending an email asking for one. As my gas and electricity meters are in a locked basement room owned by the landlord I cannot get often access to it was an easy decision to instead go for the nice people at www.equipower.co.uk who do not have penalty charges for anything and after my pointing out the error of their ways over their 0845 number at director level soon replaced it with an 0800 number. The people behind Click Energy are cynical scamsters and nothing else.  It is a headline cheap energy service which is not cheap because the low prices are funded by a plethora of ripoff charges. >:( >:( >:( The miely mouthed ICSTIS should have fined them £100,000 and not £5,000 for such a flagrant abuse of the premium rate system.  What is £5,000 - perhaps one day's annual bonus for their Chief Executive?

I also use equipower because we have prepaid meters and they are the cheapest as they do not charge premiums or standing charges irrespective of payment method...

I did call them the other day on the 0800 number to sort out a rebate (as I had been on the old Grittish Bas tariff) and I was told to ring an 0845 number to speak to southern electric...

Have you had this problem before?

Kev

trubster wrote on Jan 13^th, 2007 at 12:53am:

I also use equipower because we have prepaid meters and they are the cheapest as they do not charge premiums or standing charges irrespective of payment method... I did call them the other day on the 0800 number to sort out a rebate (as I had been on the old Grittish Bas tariff) and I was told to ring an 0845 number to speak to southern electric... Have you had this problem before?

Equipower is really in the same position as the end resellers for Internet service provider www.entanet.co.uk like www.ukfsn.org. or www.adsl24.co.uk  That is they have their own tariff and do their own marketing to acquire new customers but all day to day matters are dealt with by Southern Electric who produce and send the actual bills and input the meter readings.

As I was used to and prefer online account management from Powergen days I asked Equipower if they had this facility after joining them and was told to contact Southern Electric.  Southern then told me how to set this up and I now get emails telling me when new bills are available and also input any meter readings that I may exceptionally be able to get hold of on the Southern Electric website.

But when I needed to call them to set this up I used one of the several Southern Electric 0800 number alternatives to their 0845 number listed on this website. ;) ::)

As Southern Electric aren't themselves the ethical supplier I don't suppose we can hope for any more than the 0800 being available rather than being actively presented to us, although I suppose we could email Equipower's management pointing out the existence of the 0800 alternatives at Southern to the 0845 numbers they are giving out. ;)

Here are the 0800 numbers on this website for Southern:-


Quote:

Verified Numbers Database Southern Electric             0845 7444555             0800 220995       Automated meter readings - Key in nothing; HOLD line & get through to Customer services (Electricity) Southern Electric             0845 7585401             0800 220995       Automated meter readings - Key in nothing; HOLD line & get through to Customer services (Gas) Southern Electric                         0800 616009       Customer services & Enquiries also 0800 117116 Southern Electric                         0800 300999       Emergency number Unverified Numbers Database Southern Electric             0845 7252526             0800 7834121       Hold for Customer services

NGMsGhost wrote on Jan 12^th, 2007 at 10:23pm:

bbb_uk wrote on Jan 12th, 2007 at 12:59pm: Notice because they couldn't say how long people would wait in a queue for they have opted for a (surprise) stealth premium rate 0870 number instead where they don't have to worry how long consumers are in a queue for - see here. Surely they would have gone to covert premium rate 0871 at 10p per minute unless ICSTIS surprise us later by actually imposing proper Premium Rate regulation? ;) :o

They've probably held off until such time as they know for sure what regulations ICSTIS will impose so until then they've chosen the next highest number, 0870.

The ironic thing is that BG will probably get more money via the 0870 route than 09x route simply because fewer people would ring 09x knowing it is a premium rate and with call queuing prohibited means under 09x, consumers would only be paying for the time they actually speak to an operator which in most cases is relatively a short time.

Whereas on an 0870 they'll get more people ringing because many consumers wont realise what they're paying for the call and with the added bonus (for them) that they get paid even whilst we're in the queue.

bbb_uk wrote on Jan 13^th, 2007 at 12:13pm:

The ironic thing is that BG will probably get more money via the 0870 route than 09x route simply because fewer people would ring 09x knowing it is a premium rate and with call queuing prohibited means under 09x, consumers would only be paying for the time they actually speak to an operator which in most cases is relatively a short time. Whereas on an 0870 they'll get more people ringing because many consumers wont realise what they're paying for the call and with the added bonus (for them) that they get paid even whilst we're in the queue.

I think you miss the point bbb_uk which is that in general call centres cost and don't make money for companies, even when using 084/7 numbers to defray part of the cost.  The only except would be premium rate number like the one just closed down at £45 per hour calling rate.

The point of the premium rate 75p per minute number was actually to avoid most people other than a diehard and crazed few calling altogether and so to force them to use email instead (which are in turn often not read or only responded to from India in meaningless terms).  Having 0870 numbers will mean far more calls being taken in total and so will cost British Gas extra money.

NGMsGhost wrote on Jan 13^th, 2007 at 12:34pm:

I think you miss the point bbb_uk which is that in general call centres cost and don't make money for companies, even when using 084/7 numbers to defray part of the cost.  The only except would be premium rate number like the one just closed down at £45 per hour calling rate. The point of the premium rate 75p per minute number was actually to avoid most people other than a diehard and crazed few calling altogether and so to force them to use email instead (which are in turn often not read or only responded to from India in meaningless terms).  Having 0870 numbers will mean far more calls being taken in total and so will cost British Gas extra money.

I haven't missed the point.

BG will already have call centre staff to take calls from their other services/tariffs so how would it cost BG more?  BG would already be paying their staff regardless so if no-one rung them at all then the staff get paid for sitting around doing nothing all day.  The only time it would cost more is if they had to get more staff in which for the 0870 they don't as why would it bother them how long we're left in a queue for?  The 09x route however meant that if they did still get loads of calls (unlikely as people are aware 09x is premium) then they would probably need more staff to ensure they kept waiting down to a minimum which I think ICSTIS CoP state 15secs is it?

I do agree however that the use of the 09x was to put people off but with regards to it costing BG more now they have an 0870 then I can't see it.

Besides, I believe the amount it costs for BG's services is used to pay for call centre staff anyhow.