Just had emails off both 1899 & 18185 and as an aside they both mentioned that their connection fee for UK calls was going up to 5p per call  :(

I've just looked at the 18185 site and the connection fee is still listed as 4p. Did they say when it was going up?.What do you have to do to get an email from them?

It was an offer off both of them, actually. Cheap calls abroad. They mentioned it at the bottom of the email. Can't get a copy of it now as the server is down. I'll post it later when I get back on.

Just looked again and it states that the connection fee for calls abroad is 4p and it is 5p for calls within the UK.

Dear customer,

We have selected some new offers just for you*!

Argentina Fix      1 p/Min
Austria Fix        0,5 p/Min
Denmark Fix        0,5 p/Min
Netherlands Fix    0,5 p/Min
Turkey Fix         1 p/Min


*Connection fee 4p

These offers are also available from your mobile via our access number
020 81 80 2828.
For more details and free online registration please visit
http://www.18185.co.uk/index2.php.


Please note: from the 16th of January calls within the UK via 18185 are
subjected to a 5p connection fee.

So they have all finally 'caught up' with BT price!!
At least it means that in evenings & weekends I won't have to remember 1899 etc prefixes.  My calls are always less than an hour, so using BT will be easier. (How long till BT move up again, I wonder?).  Daytime calls still excellent value though with 1899 etc.

Even better from here, http://www.webcalldirect.com/en/rates.html they are FREE, just register.

They are another branch of the Betamax tree, Voipstunt, Voipcheap...............

http://www.webcalldirect.com/en/faq.html
I want to call one of the free* destinations, but I get charged anyway^ top

You have possibly reached the maximum limit of our Fair Use Policy or you may be dialling a mobile number without realising. Calls made via the WebCallDirect website are also subjected to a small connection fee (as stated in the WebCall panel). Please consult our terms of use for more info about the Fair Use Policy.

If this small fee is like the others, then the callback connection fee will be 0.05 euro . About 3p. Assuming the same rules follow thru then .............
(QUOTE from voipstunt)   Max 300 minutes per week of free calls, measured over the last 7 days and per unique IP address. Unused free minutes cannot be taken to the following week(s). If limit is exceeded the normal rates apply. With your FREE DAYS you can call for free to all the destinations listed as free! when you have no FREE DAYS left the normal rates apply. You can get extra Freedays by buying credit

Calls will not be permitted to last more than an hour. Redial is permitted.

I have made about 6-7 calls after registering today, and have not been charged, although the panel does say there is a 5ct conn fee, I take it to be that I have 300 minutes per week, as long as the calls are to free destinations, 2 of those calls lasted about 7 minutes, and the others where between 2 and 4 minutes.
However only time will tell.

I have not purchased any credit, it is showing my credit as €0.00

OK looks like its time to get that Linksys ATA into use that I have been putting off dealing with.   Finarea are seriously beginning to annoy me now with their cynical marketing and failing to notify customers of price rises at all.

Are you saying that with voipcheap and webcalldirect etc I can have 300 minutes per week free with each of them?  Or do they only allow the same IP address once across their whole call stable for one lot of 300 minutes.

Is it 300 minutes per week or per month?

Not sure as the site seems to contradict itself, but I have made another 3  calls since my last post, all connected and I cannot have been charged because I have no credit.

You might want to have a look at this one as well,  http://www.freecall.com/en/index.html

At 5p per call that's only 2.8 calls a day before reaching break even with www.euphony.co.uk and of course if I was on that I could always even become an unpaid number checker for this website. :-/

I will give the Linksys a go and see how I get on with it as I will then be able to make my Voip calls with my DECT phones.

The way I read it, is that it is the same as "webcalldirect" FREE, I have not registered with them as yet but it does give the same blurb as webcalldirect at the bottom and in the F&Qs


What is the  "Linksys ATA"

http://www.voipon.co.uk/analog-adapters-linksys-analog-adaptors-c-2_29.html?category=Linksys_Analog_Adaptors

If you don't want to always have your computer on to make Voip phone calls.  The SPA 3000 also redirects calls to your home number elsewhere using Voip if you can work out how to set it up.

Don't think it worth my while for the calls I make, will just stay with the free web based ones above and the free 01/02 numbers I will get shortly via Virgin.net W/E and eves, also 1899,18866.18185 for the other times.

derrick wrote on Jan 17^th, 2007 at 4:14pm:

Don't think it worth my while for the calls I make, will just stay with the free web based ones above and the free 01/02 numbers I will get shortly via Virgin.net W/E and eves, also 1899,18866.18185 for the other times.

I think I may have to move to one of the free in the evening and weekend outfits after this latest blow.

Webcalldirect is not truly free there is a connection charge of approximately 3p a call. Your get a few free calls to start with but then they will expect you to buy some credit.

NGMsGhost wrote on Jan 17^th, 2007 at 4:43pm:

derrick wrote on Jan 17th, 2007 at 4:14pm: Don't think it worth my while for the calls I make, will just stay with the free web based ones above and the free 01/02 numbers I will get shortly via Virgin.net W/E and eves, also 1899,18866.18185 for the other times. I think I may have to move to one of the free in the evening and weekend outfits after this latest blow.

Not Sky i hope with its 0870 customer service number.   :)

acezing wrote on Jan 17^th, 2007 at 5:01pm:

Not Sky i hope with its 0870 customer service number.   :)

I was thinking of Primus Saver Option 2, although to be honest most of my volume of calls is to businesses in the weekday daytime so this wouldn't make much of a difference.  The good thing about Primus is that there is no long contract period tie in.

Hopefully this will answer some queries raised here, but in no set order.
Answers given come from personal experience.

1 - It's 0.05 euro connection fee, about 3p, for callback ONLY. Ie you talk via your landline, but activated from your pc.

2 - Connection via pc softphone is free to all destinations.

3 - All calls charged at appropriate rate per minute, by the minute. ie 3 secs over = 1 min extra.

4 - 300 mins max free calls in a revolving 7 day period. Read it properly to avoid getting caught out. 7 day consecutive period, NOT a calender week.

5 - Calls will last a max of 60 mins. You will be cut off by the system. Redial, as many times as required, is permitted, at the appropriate connection fees. Points 1 & 2

6 - It's not Fineara any more. This set of services is now run by Betamax.

7 - Before joining any branch of this tree, look at http://backsla.sh/betamax. This is a very comprehensive table giving the price to call each country. List the countries you are likely to dial, then compare with the site for the most appropriate service to fit your personal needs. NOTE - THE PRICES ON BACKSLASH ARE IN EURO.

8 - If you can register from a foreign ip address, your stand a good chance of getting a free voip in number, appropriate to that country. Due to some telecom laws in some countries about actual location not being advertised on the call, you can't always get a free number. UK is now one.
eg - I joined voipstunt, got a free number based in Coventry. If I log in from Hungary and dial via softphone, it would appear on your phone that I was in UK, with little chance of locating me if the calls were abusive etc.
FROM EXPERIENCE you can register voipcheap in Hungary and still get a free number. This might still work for Eastern European countries that have yet to catch up.

One scenario
You have friends in Hungary.
It's still bldy expensive from there to here via normal lines. (Scratch cards do exist & are cheaper)
You register with voipcheap and get a free Hungarian landline number.
Give the friends the number.
Activate call divert from within your voipcheap settings to divert to your UK LAND number.
Diverted calls appear to be charged at softphone rates. So..... they can speak to my bird, 1500 miles away. from their land or mobile, for standard land rates as applicable to their personal tariff. The minutes come from your allowance.

9 - I think the bit about unique ip address is relevant to each branch of the tree. So you can't have 2 voipCHEAP accounts, but you could have a voipCHEAP and a voipSTUNT operating at the same time. Experience says that seems to work.

Think I've covered it, but reread point 4.
Scenario
Monday 01 of the month you make 200 mins of free calls.
Tuesday 02 of the month you make 100 mins of free calls.
You do not want to make a call until Sunday the 7th. All 300 mins used. You now pay at the going rate.
If you didn't do that call on Sunday 7th, but waited until Monday 8th you would now have 200 mins available.
Etc.
You really don't want to have to write down all the times you've spent. So allow yourself 42 mins per day if in constant 7 day use, and roll over any unused minutes towards the rest of the week, divided by 7.
For every day you don't ring you could carry 6 mins over on top of your average.

acezing wrote on Jan 17^th, 2007 at 4:59pm:

Webcalldirect is not truly free there is a connection charge of approximately 3p a call. Your get a few free calls to start with but then they will expect you to buy some credit.

Yesterday I made  9 calls totalling 32 minutes and have not been charged anything,(not even a conn fee), my "remaining credit" is €0.00 and the amount at the side of each call in the call register is FREE*, the  ( * ) relates the the following at the bottom of the page [color=#0066cc]* Registered members get a maximum of 300 minutes per week of free calls, measured over the last 7 days. Unused free minutes cannot be taken to the following week(s). If limit is exceeded the normal rates apply. With your FREE DAYS you can call for free to all the destinations listed as free! when you have no FREE DAYS left the normal rates apply. You can get extra Freedays by buying credit[/color]  I can see no reason why I would be charged unless they change the T&Cs.

derrick,

What do you use as your PC telephone handset or headset?

Derrick
Read points 1 & 2 of my last post.
It would appear you spoke through a phone / headset plugged directly into the computer, and used the softphone software supplied.

You are only charged a connection fee if you activate callback from your pc.
You would do this if you had a slow connection, a busy pc or didn't want an echo (it does happen)
You would then enter your personal phone number in the first box  (callback number), and the target in the second.
Your phone rings.
You pick up
You get charged 0.05 euro
Their phone rings
They pick up
You then get charged per minute at the appropriate rate, whether it is free or 20p per min etc.
Remember to ALWAYS kill the call using the disconnect button on the software.
Putting the land phone down is not always good enough. The call would still be live, you will still be charged.
Experience talking.

As Very Nice Man points out you only pay the 0.05 euro cents connection if your using the callback from your pc.which i incorrectly thought you were doing.

However you they not continue to allow you to  get free calls for ever,at some stage they will stop them.They will then require you to purchase some credit, to buy free days to reach the free destinations.

"Registered members get a maximum of 300 minutes per week of free calls, measured over the last 7 days and per unique IP address. Unused free minutes cannot be taken to the following week(s). If limit is exceeded the normal rates apply. With your FREE DAYS you can call for free to all the destinations listed as free! when you have no FREE DAYS left the normal rates apply. You can get extra Freedays by buying credit "

I use my normal I do not have a soft phone, I put both numbers,(my number and the called number into the boxes on screen, then click on call, my house phone rings, I pick it up, the ringing tone is then heard in my home phone, and the recipient picks up, I then have the conversation and replace my handset, it appears I then have to click on "disconnect" on screen as it is still clocking up seconds. And that is how I have been using it.

NGMsGhost, as you can see I do not have a phone plugged into my computer.

derrick wrote on Jan 19^th, 2007 at 11:13am:

I use my normal I do not have a soft phone, I put both numbers,(my number and the called number into the boxes on screen, then click on call, my house phone rings, I pick it up, the ringing tone is then heard in my home phone, and the recipient picks up, I then have the conversation and replace my handset, it appears I then have to click on "disconnect" on screen as it is still clocking up seconds. And that is how I have been using it. NGMsGhost, as you can see I do not have a phone plugged into my computer.

But you ought to be charged 5 Euro cents a call (about 3.5p per call) if you use the service in this way if I understand their terms & conditions and what others have said correctly? :-? :-/

Or does this only happen after you have exceeded 300 minutes of use in the last 7 day period?

Can confirm that voipstunt charges with every callback, irrespective of time left.
Looks like we need to sign up with webcall!

A couple more comments about the Betamax companies -

As acezing already said, there is a certain amount of use allowed as a free trial after which you'll be expected to subscribe, so you can't expect to have free calls forever.

Once subscribed, and when using the callback, remember that it is two calls that are using up your 300 free minutes a week, so ...


derrick wrote on Jan 18^th, 2007 at 11:46am:

acezing wrote on Jan 17th, 2007 at 4:59pm: Webcalldirect is not truly free there is a connection charge of approximately 3p a call. Your get a few free calls to start with but then they will expect you to buy some credit. Yesterday I made  9 calls totalling 32 minutes and have not been charged anything,(not even a conn fee), my "remaining credit" is €0.00 and the amount at the side of each call in the call register is FREE*, the  ( * ) relates the the following at the bottom of the page [color=#0066cc]* Registered members get a maximum of 300 minutes per week of free calls, measured over the last 7 days. Unused free minutes cannot be taken to the following week(s). If limit is exceeded the normal rates apply. With your FREE DAYS you can call for free to all the destinations listed as free! when you have no FREE DAYS left the normal rates apply. You can get extra Freedays by buying credit[/color]  I can see no reason why I would be charged unless they change the T&Cs.

... I think you need to read this again. You can get extra Freedays by buying credit, so until you do you don't have 300 minutes a week. We'd be interested to know how long your free trial lasts though.

Since 19th January 2007,( whenI registered with WebCallDirect ), I have made 11 calls, 3 of which show FREE but no time duration, I think these where calls that did not connect as they had zero time duration, the others total just over 36 minutes duration, I have NOT been charged for any of those calls.
The way I read the T&Cs is that once you register you have 300 minutes per week FREE,if you exceed this you will be charged, however that will involve buying credit, at this moment I have NOT bought any credit.


NGMsGhost, your quote, " Or does this only happen after you have exceeded 300 minutes of use in the last 7 day period?"  @ reply #26 is how I understand it to work.

andy9  I will let you know if/when they ask me to buy credit.

The part in blue in  my reply #21 backs up my understanding of it, as it says:- If limit is exceeded the normal rates apply. therefore if I don't exceed the limit it should be free, and up to now it has been, only time will tell.

Does anyone know what the minimum credit purchase is?


Just had a look  here is an example:-

Please select an amount::
You pay        Credit you receive      You will receive
£ 1.50                     £ 1.77                     14 Freedays!      

* Credit balance on your account will be shown in Euro's. Differences may occur due to fluctuations in exchange rates.

That is the example that came up when I went to buy credit, it did not give me another option!

Unless you are the chosen one you will have to put some credit in soon. Your interpretation of the T&C is i am afraid to say incorrect. You usually get away with about 30 to 40 free minutes.

I have registered and seem to be able to make calls without having bought credit or having had to hand over a credit card number. Ringing tone sounded a bit shakey on test call I made though - not up to 18185 standards.  Will try a real call later.

In the long run having them ring your landline must surely mean they have to charge you 5 Euro cents per call even during the first 300 minutes a week?  Doing the whole thing by voip must work out cheaper for them.

I expect that the existence of this thread will mean that any undue generosity on free call backs without credit will soon be curtailed.  Of course this may be a deliberate strategy on their part to gain publicity for this latest Betamax calls brand.  Odd that they should name themselves after a commercially unsuccesful brand of video tape.

NGMsGhost wrote on Jan 19^th, 2007 at 6:14pm:

In the long run having them ring your landline must surely mean they have to charge you 5 Euro cents per call even during the first 300 minutes a week?  Doing the whole thing by voip must work out cheaper for them. I expect that the existence of this thread will mean that any undue generosity on free call backs without credit will soon be curtailed.  Of course this may be a deliberate strategy on their part to gain publicity for this latest Betamax calls brand.  Odd that they should name themselves after a commercially unsuccesful brand of video tape.

The 5c connection charge applies to all calls, as derrick will probably soon discover.

It isn't the latest brand - it was launched in early May, and Freecall in September and Lowratevoip in November are more recent (and probably another I've forgotten)

But you might as well load one or two of the accounts  in your ATA and save the callback charge

I am with 18185 and it says free calls to 01/02 numbers +5p connection charge, how come when i call it it says "1p per min"???

trubster wrote on Jan 20^th, 2007 at 12:32am:

I am with 18185 and it says free calls to 01/02 numbers +5p connection charge, how come when i call it it says "1p per min"???

Are you using the 0808 or 020 access numbers?

0808 because I am on telewest.....

trubster wrote on Jan 20^th, 2007 at 12:46am:

0808 because I am on telewest.....

Which is why it costs you 1p/min. 0p/min applies when you call using the 18185 BT prefix. The rates you are charged are here.

Dave wrote on Jan 20^th, 2007 at 12:49am:

trubster wrote on Jan 20th, 2007 at 12:46am: 0808 because I am on telewest..... Which is why it costs you 1p/min. 0p/min applies when you call using the 18185 BT prefix. The rates you are charged are here.

Quote:

070 - Personal - 25ppm

So does that mean that if i ring the 070 rip off number for patientline then it would only cost 25ppm???

trubster wrote on Jan 20^th, 2007 at 2:30am:

So does that mean that if i ring the 070 rip off number for patientline then it would only cost 25ppm???

maybe, but I don't know if they recognise all 070 numbers - the only one I tried didn't work and I've read similar comments a couple of times ...

a very nice man wrote on Jan 18^th, 2007 at 12:45pm:

Derrick Read points 1 & 2 of my last post. It would appear you spoke through a phone / headset plugged directly into the computer, and used the softphone software supplied. You are only charged a connection fee if you activate callback from your pc. You would do this if you had a slow connection, a busy pc or didn't want an echo (it does happen) You would then enter your personal phone number in the first box  (callback number), and the target in the second. Your phone rings. You pick up You get charged 0.05 euro Their phone rings They pick up You then get charged per minute at the appropriate rate, whether it is free or 20p per min etc. Remember to ALWAYS kill the call using the disconnect button on the software. Putting the land phone down is not always good enough. The call would still be live, you will still be charged. Experience talking.

Even when paying for calls, you do not get charged if the line is busy or is not answered:-

Call charges take effect once you are connected to the telephone number you have dialled i.e once the call has been answered. If there is no answer or the line is engaged you will not be charged for the call.


The above quote from here:-  http://www.webcalldirect.com/en/faq.html#21

derrick, you can argue as much as you like, but eventually when your free trial is up and they ask you to subscribe you will find that not one person here has lied to you.

How do you know what happens in circumstances you haven't tried yet?

The 5c connection charge occurs when the first phone is picked up, exactly as quoted in your yellow highlight.

But if the second does not answer, there is no time charged on the first either, even if it's a mobile, which is what your blue quote means.

It may be that you think the 5c charge is unfair, or an error, in which case complain about it, but don't expect any response

OK if and when it happens fair enough, I am just stating it as it is and how it is happening to me at this moment in time, I am not arguing, I am telling you what is happening to me, if you choose not to believe me, then that is up to you, but I have no reason to lie.

My quote in blue is from the F&Qs page,(link), and says what it says, now if you are suggesting the conn fee is a charge they make above and beyond the per minute charge, then I cannot find it,  surely "call charges" relate to just that and therefore include the conn fee, there is nothing I can find to suggest otherwise.

OK, I have now found that the conn fee is extra:-  How much will I be charged for my calls?

In trial mode all calls are absolutely free (but limited). For registered users, web-activated calls to any land line in one of our free* destinations are free, except for a small connection fee (as stated in the WebCall panel).  

But I still maintain that any call that is not connected is not charged even a conn fee, as that is how I understand my quote in blue, from their website.

Update on the free calls.

After making various calls totalling 48 minutes and 53 seconds for free, I now find that all of my next calls,(5 up to now) , are disconnected after 2 minutes and 29 seconds, with a message above the "dial" button,  "The maximum free calls has been reached",  so Now I will have to see how long the 2 mins,29 secs calls continue for,( no replies saying,"2mins 29 secs)  ;D

Have you kept a log of each call?
Perhaps you are allowed 5 @ 10 mins
5 @ 5mins
5@ 2.5  ...............................
decreasing to the point where it will disconnect immediately.

The whole point therefore being to suck you in so that you will carry on using the paid service ultimately.

This marketing strategy clearly underpins the activities of both Betamax and Finarea with Finarea now having increased the cost of calls with 18866 from 1p per call all the way up to 5p per call and having now also required 1899 and 18185 customers to pay those higher call prices.

The only point to object to on 1899/18866/18185 is the lack of proper notification of the price rises to most customers.  Actually increasing the prices is fair enough as clearly those rates were unsustainable on a long term basis commercially.

a very nice man wrote on Jan 25^th, 2007 at 4:11pm:

Have you kept a log of each call? Perhaps you are allowed 5 @ 10 mins 5 @ 5mins 5@ 2.5  ............................... decreasing to the point where it will disconnect immediately.

The site keeps a log:-

Date                          Time                   Number called                                Duration            Amount
2007-01-25            16:56:35            from +44177273 to +44191244            00:02:29            FREE!
2007-01-25            16:56:16            from +44177273 to +44191244            00:00:00            FREE!
2007-01-25            16:52:01            from +44177273 to +44191244            00:02:29            FREE!
2007-01-24            12:33:09            from +44177273 to +44121698            00:01:28            FREE!
2007-01-24            12:19:58            from +44177273 to +44207404            00:02:29            FREE!
2007-01-24            12:16:58            from +44177273 to +44207404            00:02:29            FREE!
2007-01-22            17:22:59            from +44177273 to +44170634            00:04:42            FREE!
2007-01-22            12:14:10            from +44177273 to +44113280            00:04:25            FREE!
2007-01-22            11:54:34            from +44177273 to +4417063              00:04:03            FREE!
2007-01-19            12:25:22            from +44177273 to +44190466            00:00:15            FREE!
2007-01-19            12:00:25            from +44177273 to +44170634            00:03:31            FREE!
2007-01-17            16:21:32            from +44177273 to +44207664            00:02:57            FREE!
2007-01-17            16:19:22            from +44177273 to +44164273            00:01:13            FREE!
2007-01-17            16:17:51            from +44177273 to +44148388            00:00:00            FREE!
2007-01-17            16:17:08            from +44177273 to +44148388            00:00:00            FREE!
2007-01-17            14:17:24            from +44177273 to +44167546            00:06:09            FREE!
2007-01-17            13:47:56            from +44177273 to +44150681            00:07:35            FREE!
2007-01-17            12:08:44            from +44177273 to +44133284            00:08:00            FREE!
2007-01-17            12:08:22            from +44177273 to +44133284            00:00:00            FREE!
2007-01-17            11:46:14            from +44177273 to +44120264            00:06:03            FREE!

As I read th News page on the website, you get a total of 90 free days, after which you will get charged - so it is a strictly limited free offer! :(  

jimnutt wrote on Feb 9^th, 2007 at 5:37pm:

As I read th News page on the website, you get a total of 90 free days, after which you will get charged - so it is a strictly limited free offer! :(

Still at least £10 or so of free calls for most of us.

A free tenner can't be sniffed at can it?

I wonder if you can get your 90 days with webcalldirect, and then another 90 days with Freecalls . . .and so on??? ::)

jimnutt wrote on Feb 9^th, 2007 at 5:47pm:

I wonder if you can get your 90 days with webcalldirect, and then another 90 days with Freecalls . . .and so on??? ::)

Well if you keep changing broadband providers every 3 months and also use a different email address then I'm sure you could.

Dragging the thread back (nearly) on topic, I have received e-mail confirmation from 18185 that they will carry '03' calls when the number range is introduced next month.

Question:
Quote:

Please confirm 18185 will be providing access to the new UK range of '03' numbers (charged at the same rate as UK 01 and 02 numbers).

Reply:
Quote:

That is correct, 18185 will provide access.

Heinz wrote on Feb 14^th, 2007 at 11:08am:

Dragging the thread back (nearly) on top

In view of Ofcom's statements about the terms and conditions for carrying these numbers in its announcements yesterday it would be rather amazing if 18185 was not going to carry calls to these numbers.  The big question though is will there actually be any 03 numbers available to call when they are first launched? ;)

Just looking at the whole calls and broadband thing again my Mother's exchange, which is in a fairly rural area and is not a big town exchange but still has a lot of lines (4,000 in total which is small compared to town exchanges with 8,000 to 20,000) has just been enabled by TalkTalk for broadband and is also being enabled by Be Unlimited at the start of March (previously you could only go with normal BT based broadband providers).

Now if it was me I would probably go for Be, except that the property in question is 3.8km from the exchange so at best we might get 5Mbps instead of 3Mbps quoted by BT as normal ADSL Max Sync speed and not the full 18Mbps to 24Mbps that those near the exchange will get from Be.  But when you look at her broadband needs and the increased call prices of 1899 and 18185 etc (I got her on to 1899 some time ago) then unfortunately TalkTalk's broadband does only work out at about £5 per month or so allowing for the free 18185 calls it will displace.  And no one else is offering broadband at anywhere near that price.  And results at www.dslzoneuk.net show that their average speeds are now not really that bad, especially as this is a smaller exchange so its unlikely their DSLAM will end up being under so much pressure as on a big town exchange.

So with reluctance I think I will have to sign her up for TalkTalk, especially as there is 30 days cancellation without penalty if the service turns out to be totally atrocious, and free connection too.