Sky recently informed us that our exchange now has LLU and as a Sky TV Customer we can have their 2 mbps Broadband free of charge or their 8mbps broadband for £5.00 per month. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has tried either of these Sky Broadband package and whether you would recommend them, or not.

We currently have 2 mbps broadband with NTL/Virgin and pay £10 per month. (Reduced from £18 because we threatened to leave for Sky) Line Rental with BT - £11 and Skytalk -£5. Total £26.00

If we leave NTL/Virgin we will save the £10 we currently pay to NTL/Virgin and our monthly costs for Line Rental/Broadband and phone will be £16 (£11 to BT for line rental, £5 for Skytalk - Unlimited Geo Calls and Free 2 mbps Broadband)

Alternatively we could cancel our BT Line Rental and Skytalk saving us £16 and Remain with NTL/Virgin for Cable Broadband and subscribe to Vonage for £7.99 a month  for our unlimited Geo VOIP Calls. Total cost £17.99 (providing I can keep getting the £10 reduced cost broadband).

Whichever I do I am going to save money, either £8.01 or £10.00, but which is the better option????????

4PetesSake wrote on Feb 16^th, 2007 at 1:29am:

Sky recently informed us that our exchange now has LLU and as a Sky TV Customer we can have their 2 mbps Broadband free of charge or their 8mbps broadband for £5.00 per month. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has tried either of these Sky Broadband package and whether you would recommend them, or not. We currently have 2 mbps broadband with NTL/Virgin and pay £10 per month. (Reduced from £18 because we threatened to leave for Sky) Line Rental with BT - £11 and Skytalk -£5. Total £26.00 If we leave NTL/Virgin we will save the £10 we currently pay to NTL/Virgin and our monthly costs for Line Rental/Broadband and phone will be £16 (£11 to BT for line rental, £5 for Skytalk - Unlimited Geo Calls and Free 2 mbps Broadband) Alternatively we could cancel our BT Line Rental and Skytalk saving us £16 and Remain with NTL/Virgin for Cable Broadband and subscribe to Vonage for £7.99 a month  for our unlimited Geo VOIP Calls. Total cost £17.99 (providing I can keep getting the £10 reduced cost broadband). Whichever I do I am going to save money, either £8.01 or £10.00, but which is the better option????????

DONT LEAVE TELEWEST!!!

lol, I would personally recommend staying with TW/VM, I say that because PTSN (BT) lines are 150 years old and ADSL is too much for it in most areas, with ADSL your connection is seriously affected by other users and traffic going through the exchange, OTOH TW/VM is Fibre Optic Cables and 100% digital to the exchange and a cable to the house, If you have 2meg broadband, you will get 2 meg broadband... I have 10 Meg and I always hit the full 10 meg on usenext.

I used to have ADSL until the connection was dropping for hours at a time and we just went for cable, I can not fault it at all, and as they say, if it is not broke, DONT FIX IT!!!

Also, Sky charge you a one off activation fee of £40 for there "FREE" Broadband or £20 for the 8meg (Prob max of 3.4mbps)

Personal Recommendation:

Cancel BT Line: £11 Per Month Saved
Cancel SKYTalk: £5 Per Month Saved
Cancel SKY TV: £xx Per Month Saved (Optional)
Get Starter TV from Telewest: FREE
Get Vonage: £7.99 Per Month +20.00 for box

When you cancel sky, you will have your sky box still and you will still have access to over 100 free channels (See Freesat from sky) and Telewest free TV to existing customers (or at least did)

Really it depends if it is worth paying what you do for sky, and if you threaten to cancel, they normally throw a load of stupid offers your way too :-D

Hope this helps you.

sorry, scratch what i said about telewest TV, it is only valid for free when taken with phone line...

That was very informative, thanks for the recommendations. :)

Anytime matey, I guess several other members will have other ideas, best to wait for more than 1 persons opinion, but I will not believe anyone who says PTSN is anywhere as fast OR reliable as cable.


Quote:

Cable, If you can, You should!

trubster wrote on Feb 16^th, 2007 at 2:00am:

lol, I would personally recommend staying with TW/VM, I say that because PTSN (BT) lines are 150 years old and ADSL is too much for it in most areas, with ADSL your connection is seriously affected by other users and traffic going through the exchange, OTOH TW/VM is Fibre Optic Cables and 100% digital to the exchange and a cable to the house, If you have 2meg broadband, you will get 2 meg broadband... I have 10 Meg and I always hit the full 10 meg on usenext.

Phone service only actually arrived in most UK households between the 1930s and 1960s and the network and their exchange structure mainly dates from the 1920s to 1950s and not quite 150 years ago.  The phone was only invented just over 100 years ago.

Most of the cabling is renewed ever 30 years or so as it eventually breaks down and the current BT System X and System Y exchange equipment dates from early 1980s but the DSLAMs that support broadband are all under 7 years old.

I have ADSL Max broadband with a  good provider (www.newnet.co.uk) and get no issues with disconnections, drop outs or poor speeds.  Its only if you go for TalkTalk, Tiscali, AOL etc that you get a rubbish service.

see www.dslzoneuk.net for more info on different ADSL providers.

Sure NGM, but you can not compare ADSL with Cable, Cable is a far more faster and reliable system than PTSN.

through 1 small coax cable I have 4 TV Signals (1xTV Box + 1 PVR with 3 tuners), 10 Meg Broadband and a phoneline... could you do that with a PTSN line without the wooded shed burning down (or at least thats what my old local exchange was in)

trubster wrote on Feb 16^th, 2007 at 10:30am:

Sure NGM, but you can not compare ADSL with Cable, Cable is a far more faster and reliable system than PTSN. through 1 small coax cable I have 4 TV Signals (1xTV Box + 1 PVR with 3 tuners), 10 Meg Broadband and a phoneline... could you do that with a PTSN line without the wooded shed burning down (or at least thats what my old local exchange was in)

If its so advanced it seems strange they don't offer 100Mbps broadband then rather than something only marginally ahead of ADSL Max.

They can do it, there is a trial taking place right now for it (or has been done recently)

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/236/ntl-in-secret-100mbps-trials  8-) :o

trubster wrote on Feb 16^th, 2007 at 10:45am:

They can do it, there is a trial taking place right now for it (or has been done recently) http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/236/ntl-in-secret-100mbps-trials  8-) :o

But then so can BT with their old copper wires to the home as long as they roll out Fibre to the Cabinet. ;)

Oh yeah, i can see a big fat guy diggin up the road to put the cables in now......

oh no, he is fixin a gas leak...

trubster wrote on Feb 16^th, 2007 at 10:52am:

Oh yeah, i can see a big fat guy diggin up the road to put the cables in now......

They just dug up the road to put in fibre optic main cables to load of village exchanges that didn't have them so they could be be enabled for broadband.

If they don't dig up the road they risk being wiped out by equal speeds from WiMax broadband without having to pay BT line rental.

NGMsGhost wrote on Feb 16^th, 2007 at 11:17am:

trubster wrote on Feb 16th, 2007 at 10:52am: Oh yeah, i can see a big fat guy diggin up the road to put the cables in now...... If they don't dig up the road they risk being wiped out by equal speeds from WiMax broadband without having to pay BT line rental.

Talking of wimax, there is a community wide free broadband service in our area, many people use it, and all because BT rushed the broadband switch on in this area and the cables are not suitable

trubster wrote on Feb 16^th, 2007 at 1:04pm:

Talking of wimax, there is a community wide free broadband service in our area, many people use it, and all because BT rushed the broadband switch on in this area and the cables are not suitable

You mean the BT exchange has a large amount of TPON cabling in your area and so requires a copper overlay in order to support ADSL at the affected addresses?

You guys are baffling me with some of these technical terms.  :questionI always thought PSTN was an abreviation for Police Station, I'm guessing that Wimax is something to do with WIFI at Maximum capability and I wouldn't really want to guess what TPON might be (Clearly its nothing to do with the American for a full stop).  :o

I'm probably going to stay with NTL/Virgin for the time being but would still be interested in hearing a review from anyone who has tried Sky Broadband.

4PetesSake wrote on Feb 16^th, 2007 at 2:38pm:

You guys are baffling me with some of these technical terms.  :questionI always thought PSTN was an abreviation for Police Station, I'm guessing that Wimax is something to do with WIFI at Maximum capability and I wouldn't really want to guess what TPON might be (Clearly its nothing to do with the American for a full stop).  :o I'm probably going to stay with NTL/Virgin for the time being but would still be interested in hearing a review from anyone who has tried Sky Broadband.

You might find this site helpful:  www.skyuser.co.uk

trubster wrote on Feb 16^th, 2007 at 2:00am:

4PetesSake wrote on Feb 16th, 2007 at 1:29am: Sky recently informed us that our exchange now has LLU and as a Sky TV Customer we can have their 2 mbps Broadband free of charge or their 8mbps broadband for £5.00 per month. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has tried either of these Sky Broadband package and whether you would recommend them, or not. We currently have 2 mbps broadband with NTL/Virgin and pay £10 per month. (Reduced from £18 because we threatened to leave for Sky) Line Rental with BT - £11 and Skytalk -£5. Total £26.00 If we leave NTL/Virgin we will save the £10 we currently pay to NTL/Virgin and our monthly costs for Line Rental/Broadband and phone will be £16 (£11 to BT for line rental, £5 for Skytalk - Unlimited Geo Calls and Free 2 mbps Broadband) Alternatively we could cancel our BT Line Rental and Skytalk saving us £16 and Remain with NTL/Virgin for Cable Broadband and subscribe to Vonage for £7.99 a month  for our unlimited Geo VOIP Calls. Total cost £17.99 (providing I can keep getting the £10 reduced cost broadband). Whichever I do I am going to save money, either £8.01 or £10.00, but which is the better option???????? DONT LEAVE TELEWEST!!! lol, I would personally recommend staying with TW/VM, I say that because PTSN (BT) lines are 150 years old and ADSL is too much for it in most areas, with ADSL your connection is seriously affected by other users and traffic going through the exchange, OTOH TW/VM is Fibre Optic Cables and 100% digital to the exchange and a cable to the house, If you have 2meg broadband, you will get 2 meg broadband... I have 10 Meg and I always hit the full 10 meg on usenext. I used to have ADSL until the connection was dropping for hours at a time and we just went for cable, I can not fault it at all, and as they say, if it is not broke, DONT FIX IT!!! Also, Sky charge you a one off activation fee of £40 for there "FREE" Broadband or £20 for the 8meg (Prob max of 3.4mbps) Personal Recommendation: Cancel BT Line: £11 Per Month Saved Cancel SKYTalk: £5 Per Month Saved Cancel SKY TV: £xx Per Month Saved (Optional) Get Starter TV from Telewest: FREE Get Vonage: £7.99 Per Month +20.00 for box When you cancel sky, you will have your sky box still and you will still have access to over 100 free channels (See Freesat from sky) and Telewest free TV to existing customers (or at least did) Really it depends if it is worth paying what you do for sky, and if you threaten to cancel, they normally throw a load of stupid offers your way too :-D Hope this helps you.

On this topic, can I have some advice...?

I currently have BT phone - £11/month with Dialler to 18185/1899 etc to access good prices for European and USA calls   and

PlusNet 8Mb - £21.99 (low contention) -but I need a reliable fast connection for business with good customer service. No complaints
Total: £32.99

My family wants Sky TV. If I buy the £26/month (+£11 BT line) deal can I still select my phone carrier to get the cheap calls?

[/quote] can I still select my phone carrier to get the cheap calls?[/quote]

Your still be able to use 1899/18185 etc as your only  cps your calls to Sky.

I can't answer this directly (can hardly get Sky in the US - and anyway, I definitely wouldn't want to as you will see!) but I do listen to a certain streamed UK radio station over my cable link. They have been pushing the Sky package really hard just recently, and out of idle curiosity, I thought I'd have a look at what was on offer. I nearly fell out of my chair! If you look carefully - and behind and beyond the fluff and gloss - their charges are outrageous! If you made international calls on Sky, their proud boast is that they are '10% cheaper than BT'. Well, as BT are even more glaringly outrageous, that's hardly a recommendation.

If it were me, I'd be looking very carefully at my call patterns over the last six months or so, and then put those calls costs into Sky's tariffs. Unless you are currently with BT (bad choice!), then I think that just about anyone else could beat them. Not an easy task, I agree - the telcos are the masters of obscure and hard-to-follow tariffs.

And - don't forget that when dealing with Sky, as people on this site constantly comment, you are dealing with one of the most devious and underhand companies currently trading in the UK. This is the firm that almost certainly monitors this website, and disconnects their geographic numbers that are found in place of their almost ubiquitous use of 0870 numbers. I'd also bet London to a brick that they will make absolutely sure you can't use any override prefixes on their system. That's what sort of outfit they are. Would you REALLY want to deal with them as your phone provider?

mikeinnc wrote on Feb 17^th, 2007 at 10:26pm:

I'd also bet London to a brick that they will make absolutely sure you can't use any override prefixes on their system. That's what sort of outfit they are. Would you REALLY want to deal with them as your phone provider?

Thanks for the offer but I don't want to own London.

Sky's two landline telephone offerings are both CPS* (Carrier PreSelect) packages - so they CANNOT bar access to other networks (like 1899, 18185 and 18866).  They do not (yet) offer line rental too  - so there is no question of them being anyone's "telephone provider" (they would just be the default route for outgoing calls so, with a degree of care, they can be 'used' [for a change]).

In fact, their Sky Talk Freetime offering is good value for those with a Sky TV subscription - for no additional monthly fee it gives free calls of up to 60 minutes evenings and weekends to any UK 01 or 02 geographical number.  OK, that's only a saving of 5½p per call (that's what BT charges for each such call) but it can amount to a saving of a few pounds per month.

* CPS (Carrier PreSelect) means that users continue to pay BT for line rental (£10.75/month by DD with online only billing) but can continue to use the likes of 18866, 1899, 18185 etc.

When on CPS, although BT carries incoming calls (so Caller Display, 1471 and 1571 work normally), users have opted to have the BT exchange programmed so that, by default, (nearly) all their outgoing calls are sent via the CPS provider (and BT don't even 'see' the calls even though they carry the first leg).

The 'default' part of that sentence is the key to CPS. It means that, if users want, they can use a prefix to send an individual call via another provider (i.e. override the CPS programming for a single call). For example, using just a 1280 prefix will send that call out via BT, using just a 18185 prefix (not 128018185) will send that call out via www.18185.co.uk and so on.

In other words, CPS allows users to still pick the best carrier for their calls even though they've opted, normally, to use one provider (in this case, Sky Talk Freetime or Sky Talk Unlimited).

mikeinnc wrote on Feb 17^th, 2007 at 10:26pm:

I'd also bet London to a brick that they will make absolutely sure you can't use any override prefixes on their system.

Mike,

Are you originally from the UK like idb as I must say the phrase "bet London to a brick" is definitely not a UK one.  In fact its almost bound to be a colloquial NYC or possibly a general US expression the more you think about it  i.e. no one in London would say "London to a Brick".

Curiously enough I have actually visited the old London Bridge not in London (I'm not quite old enough to have managed that) but in a place called Lake Havasu City in Arizona.  It does have an awful lot more character than the current 1960s monstrosity but you can see why they needed to widen it.  A British friend of mine who now lives in California maintains the whole thing is a con though and the London Bridge in Lake Havasu is a fake and not made from the original bricks at all.  He claims those bricks are now to be found residing at the bottom of a quarry in the South East of England somewhere.

Coming back to Sky well yes they are a devious company (although not nearly as devious and content with a third rate product as TalkTalk who really leave all other rivals for this title standing) but as it happens with their talk plan they only provide the calls via  a BT system called CPS or Carrier Pre-Selection that automatically routes calls with them unless you enter the prefix for another call carrying company you have signed or with BT.  So you can sign up for calls with any other company such as www.18185.co.uk and route your calls with them instead.  You stil get the bill for line rental from BT.  This contrasts with TalkTalk who use the system known as WLR (Wholesale Line Rental) where although the line is still BT's property you get your whole phone bill including line rental from TalkTalk and they do bar you from making calls with any other company including BT.

But yes Sky are hideously overpriced as their cheapest television package is £15 a month for which you only get a handful of channels and their most expensive on Sky HD is £65 per month or so.  And £299 for the Sky HD box and installation as well in the first year. :o

farci wrote on Feb 16^th, 2007 at 11:16pm:

On this topic, can I have some advice...? I currently have BT phone - £11/month with Dialler to 18185/1899 etc to access good prices for European and USA calls   and PlusNet 8Mb - £21.99 (low contention) -but I need a reliable fast connection for business with good customer service. No complaints Total: £32.99 My family wants Sky TV. If I buy the £26/month (+£11 BT line) deal can I still select my phone carrier to get the cheap calls?

We currently use Sky's carrier pre-selection for our calls and have paid the £5 subcription for Skytalk unlimited. With 18185 and 1899 having increased their connection charge to 5p a call, we only need to make as little 100 calls a month (3.3 per day) to be saving money and we make over double that number. We still use 18185 for occasional mobile and international calls.

We used to use 1899 or 18185 for all of our calls but they are now getting greedy and increasing their connection charge unjustifiably. (1899 for instance have increase their connection charge by 66.6% in the last 4 months).

I guess if you are unlikely to make many Mon-Fri daytime calls then you could take Sky's phone service that gives free eveing and weekend calls and continue to use 1899 for the occasional daytime ones.

I cannot say how reliable or not Sky's Broadband is, as I do not yet know of anyone that has it. Hopefully someone will tell us on this forum in the near future.

4PetesSake wrote on Feb 19^th, 2007 at 1:05pm:

We used to use 1899 or 18185 for all of our calls but they are now getting greedy and increasing their connection charge unjustifiably. (1899 for instance have increase their connection charge by 66.6% in the last 4 months).

Personally, I wouldn't say the increase was unjustifiable.  Call18185, 1899, etc have to pay per minute charges for calls to BT landline (or another terminating communication provider like NTL:TW (now VirginMedia).  They also have to pay BT a setup fee so that your calls are routed away from BT and onto Call18185.  I'm not certain if this setup fee is a one-off new connection type thing, per call or annual thing.

All in all I just don't know how they can make any profit with charging 5p per call to a geographical number especially if you're on it for a while - quick phonecalls possibly.

bbb_uk wrote on Feb 19^th, 2007 at 5:45pm:

All in all I just don't know how they can make any profit with charging 5p per call to a geographical number especially if you're on it for a while - quick phonecalls possibly.

Because it all averages out and all of us make loads of short and aborted calls (due to call equipment cutting us off etc) as well as the long ones.

Also they are building a large customer base of dedicated budget callers that they may ultimately sell to a larger business for quite a big sum of money.  You have to speculate to accumulate etc...................................................

Quote:

Are you originally from the UK like idb as I must say the phrase "bet London to a brick" is definitely not a UK one.

It's most likely an Australian colloquialism! I've never heard it said in the US .... but it is common in the Antipodes  ;D

....and, yes, NGM, I must admit that, once upon a time and more years ago than I wish to admit to, I actually lived and worked in and around Dorking. Not a million miles from you, I'd wager! If I told you that the building I worked in is opposite the Dorking Halls, that may give you a clue.......

But, as we also say, I definitely barrack for the Aussies now.... ::)

World Cup, anyone.....?  ;)

mikeinnc wrote on Feb 19^th, 2007 at 11:11pm:

....and, yes, NGM, I must admit that, once upon a time and more years ago than I wish to admit to, I actually lived and worked in and around Dorking. Not a million miles from you, I'd wager! If I told you that the building I worked in is opposite the Dorking Halls, that may give you a clue.......

You used to work at Mole Valley District Council?  If so in what capacity?  Or does your work opposite the Dorking Halls in Dorking pre-date the building of the current Council Offices in its strange bee hived malthouse design in the early 1980s?   I have no idea what used to be on the site previously?  The Dorking Halls is still very much in business though.

NGMsGhost wrote on Feb 19^th, 2007 at 5:51pm:

bbb_uk wrote on Feb 19th, 2007 at 5:45pm: All in all I just don't know how they can make any profit with charging 5p per call to a geographical number especially if you're on it for a while - quick phonecalls possibly. Because it all averages out and all of us make loads of short and aborted calls (due to call equipment cutting us off etc) as well as the long ones. Also they are building a large customer base of dedicated budget callers that they may ultimately sell to a larger business for quite a big sum of money.  You have to speculate to accumulate etc...................................................

Some users suspect that Finarea is in the business mainly to collect user’s data to sell for telemarketing purposes,not that i have seen any evidence of this.