Not sure if this is the right area on the forums for this, but I'm sure a mod will move it if it's not.

I just wanted to let the forum members and site owners know http://www.morecomputers.com have stopped using 0870 numbers and gone back to our standard geographic number.

We used the number because it was more memorable than our 0114 number, not to take a % of the call revenue like other companies (for the record we never took a % of the call).

I've recently joined http://www.morecomputers.com and have been keen to lose the 0870 number. After a recent customer survey it was clear it was the main thing our customers wanted us to do. We didn't ask the question outright, but in the 'tell us anything else you find annoying' question, it was by far the most popular answer. You can see the 'what do you find annoying about online shopping' survey results here. <http://www.morecomputers.com/newsletter/newsletter.html>;

So no more 0870 for MoreComputers.com - all companies should do the same, we've had a really positive response from our customers.

I see your doing a 'hall of shame' is it too cheeky to suggest a 'hall of fame' for companies that have ditched their 0870 numbers?

BrianMore wrote on May 17^th, 2007 at 11:20am:

I just wanted to let the forum members and site owners know http://www.morecomputers.com have stopped using 0870 numbers and gone back to our standard geographic number. We used the number because it was more memorable than our 0114 number, not to take a % of the call revenue like other companies (for the record we never took a % of the call).

Welcome BrianMore.

Pleased as I am (and your customers will be) to hear of the ditching of the 0870 number, the 'we never took a %' bit rings a little hollow.  Who did then?  Someone did.

Anyway, having read your assertion that the use of an 0870 number was because it was more memorable than your geographical number, I thought I'd click on your link and see what your geographical number is now.

Clicking on the Contact Us tab took me to a page on which an address is easy to find - but no phone number.  

Now that's annoying.

Scrolling down, I found an Our telephone numbers: Are in the how to contact us section link but clicking that did not immediately show me a phone number.

Now that's annoying.

Scrolling down (again), I had to scan-read looking for a likely number string before I found 0114 292 2930.

Now that's ANNOYING.

So, I eventually found your geographical number - 0114 292 293 0.  Presented in that way, it's relatively easy to remember - far more so, IMHO, than 0870 043 4182 or 08700 43 41 82.

Hi,


Quote:

'we never took a %' bit rings a little hollow.  Who did then?  Someone did.

Yeah I was surprised by this - the numbers were from Telewest so I guess they kept the revenue - these numbers were set up some years ago, I guess it was naivety on More's part not knowing there was any revenue to be made. Sounds lame but it's the truth.


Quote:

Clicking on the Contact Us tab took me to a page on which an address is easy to find - but no phone number.

I hold my hands up the number is not immediate, we don't have a huge call centre and would like customers to check the website information first before calling - this way we feel we can answer the calls quicker. It you go to http://www.morecomputers.co.uk/about.asp# and click on the more about us it explains our ways of working and give the reasons in more detail. Our phones are answered pretty quick and we'd like it to stay that way as we hopefully grow in size - to many companies start with good customer service then screw up as they get bigger. If you do ring to check me out I apologise now for the really bad IVR we have at the moment - it's on my list of stuff to sort out.


Quote:

So, I eventually found your geographical number - 0114 292 293 0.  Presented in that way, it's relatively easy to remember - far more so, IMHO, than 0870 043 4182 or 08700 43 41 82.

I'm not trying to make excuses about why we had an 0870, that was the reason I was given buy Chris the owner - I guess back in the days when they were starting out they thought they'd look like 'big' company with a non geographical number.

Hi Brian

This is an excellent example of a company finding out what its customers think and acting accordingly.  You will probably do more business that way.  I wish the banks and government departments etc would do the same.

BrianMore wrote on May 17^th, 2007 at 4:59pm:

the numbers were from Telewest so I guess they kept the revenue - these numbers were set up some years ago

You might find that the accumulated revenue is not passed over automatically and has to be claimed. The organisation with which I am involved has about fifty 0870s and 07017 numbers many of which we've had for more than eight years. It was recently discovered that the revenue had never been claimed and so far amounts to about .... £150. The call volumes are very low!

Hi pw4,

Thanks for the information, pw4.

You say that your organisation has 50 or so revenue sharing numbers and that the revenue it received is a comparatively insignificant amount.   But you telecom provider has pocketed a tidy sum over the period and your organisation has (unwittingly ?) cost your callers a significant amount of money.  

What sort of organisation is it?

Do you intend to change to 01-02 numbers, or the new 03 number?

I've double checked and there's no money been made or waiting to be collected, can only think the numbers were set up before revenue sharing became popular.

It's a shame we could have done something positive with it like sponsor this site.

BrianMore wrote on May 17^th, 2007 at 4:59pm:

Yeah I was surprised by this - the numbers were from Telewest so I guess they kept the revenue - these numbers were set up some years ago, I guess it was naivety on More's part not knowing there was any revenue to be made. Sounds lame but it's the truth.

I still think there has to be scope to strike back against the 0870 telecoms company shysters, both for companies like yourselves that were conned by not getting a revenue share and by callers of the number persistently told 0870 was National Rate only to find it was covert Premium Rate, especially from mobiles.

The total amounts involved are huge and although the amount for each retail phone customer ripped off is not quite as big as for the banks the amount for a company using 0870 and getting no revenue share are potentially huge.

If it can be done for bank charges there has to be a way it can be done for 084 and 087 numbers using fair trading legislation of one form and another.

Quote:

If it can be done for bank charges there has to be a way it can be done for 084 and 087 numbers using fair trading legislation of one form and another.

You're right there must be some way, I suppose it will boil down to contract terms and interpretation. I'll see if I can bang some heads together.

I've been doing some publicity around ditching our 0870 number and other annoying practices. You may be interested to take a look at this 'Philfing' part of our website.

http://www.philfing.info

The press release has started to get picked up and you can read the stories here:
http://www.webuser.co.uk/news/120762.html
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/113722/hidden-charges-are-a-philfy-practice.html

NGMsGhost wrote on May 21^st, 2007 at 5:20pm:

If it can be done for bank charges there has to be a way it can be done for 084 and 087 numbers using fair trading legislation of one form and another.

I wish I had the legal expertise to attack this.

From a background in retail, it feels like the Telecoms arena badly needs a dose of the consumer legislation introduced in the late 60s/early 70s, such as the Sale of Goods Act, Unfair Contract Terms Act and whichever Act introduced the OFT

As I understand it, before the introduction of some or all of those 3, it was pretty much the wild west - retailers could put a ticket on an item saying £1 each and then charge you £10 each, OR pretend something had been reduced when it had never been sold at the higher price, and many other scams. Nowadays, whilst far from perfect, laws prevent that sort of blatant deception.

Unfortunately it seems telecoms companies are able to dodge all that consumer protection, as they are only answerable to their fellow schemers at OFCOM (Trading Standards Offices seem to refuse to get involved because OFCOM is supposed to be the regulator). OFCOM of course is answerable to no-one

I did manage to get £5 out of BT about a year ago, after I kicked and screamed about 0845 items labelled on my bill as LOCAL RATE, so it can be done, but it's a painful process. They've since changed that wording as well

kk wrote on May 19^th, 2007 at 7:35am:

What sort of organisation is it?

It's a charity (of which the callers are not the beneficiaries).



Quote:

Do you intend to change to 01-02 numbers, or the new 03 number?

Yes. Our provider was informed in March that we are definitely interested in a range of 03 numbers. I say 'interested in' because we have not as yet been advised of costs by that supplier, but it is our intention to use 03 numbers when they become available, from which time the 0870 and 070 numbers will no longer be published or quoted.

pw4 wrote on May 25^th, 2007 at 1:11pm:

It's a charity (of which the callers are not the beneficiaries). Quote: Do you intend to change to 01-02 numbers, or the new 03 number? Yes. Our provider was informed in March that we are definitely interested in a range of 03 numbers. I say 'interested in' because we have not as yet been advised of costs by that supplier, but it is our intention to use 03 numbers when they become available, from which time the 0870 and 070 numbers will no longer be published or quoted.

I assume callers are therefore contributors.  

If so, why waste part of their contributions by changing to 03 numbers (calls to which the charity will almost certainly have to part-fund).

Why not just change to 01/02 numbers?

Heinz wrote on May 25^th, 2007 at 2:11pm:

I assume callers are therefore contributors.

No, funds are not raised by means of phone calls.



Quote:

Why not just change to 01/02 numbers?

Because each number would have to be changed each time there was a change of postholder. Also, the 0870 and 070 numbers - and in future the 03 numbers - can be redirected at will, from home to work in the morning and back again in the evening, for example, or to another postholder during an absence such as holiday.

Why not use soft (e.g. SIPgate, VoIP etc) numbers that one can pick up anywhere? No need to redirect and so on.

Tanllan wrote on May 28^th, 2007 at 5:20pm:

Why not use soft (e.g. SIPgate, VoIP etc) numbers that one can pick up anywhere? No need to redirect and so on.

I don't know. I don't know much about soft numbers. Do they require hardware and/or software, and broadband? Our current and future numbers work with existing phone facilities.

Modest and inexpensive hardware and broadband.

Tanllan wrote on May 31^st, 2007 at 2:20pm:

Modest and inexpensive hardware and broadband.

At this time it cannot be guaranteed that all post holders have broadband at home, and those who wish to receive calls whilst at their workplace may not have access to it there or approval to use it for that purpose. With some there would be an element of technophobia or ineptitude, which would both impair their performance and create a burden of technical support on the organisation. I wouldn't want potential post holders to be made ineligible for election, co-option or appointment for those reasons (the skills we seek for most posts are not technical) so I imagine that for the immediate future 03 numbers will suit us best. Having said that, I don't think we have been advised of the costs yet. But I have little doubt that a SIP solution will become appropriate in the not too distant future, in the same way that it is now generally accepted that post holders should be able to communicate by e-mail. Nine years ago we issued laptops to twelve post holders to enable this, and one of these was returned unused about three years later when a post holder retired. Now I don't think we need to provide any. Thanks for the suggestion though.

A great shame that more of my clients have not thought it through as you have done. I take your point about technophobia or ineptitude, but I believe that the "techie" side should be invisible. After all most people simply want to make and take 'phone calls; not all of us find the field fascinating...

I think we are losing sight of the main objectives of the “saynoto0870” site.

Organisations who use 0845 and 0870 for the convenience of redirecting calls to different numbers for various reasons find the system very convenient and at no cost to themselves.  It is the caller who pays for this facility which is why we are all complaining.

I doubt whether these numbers would be used to any extent if the organisations themselves had to pay for this facility which is born out by the number of companies moving to 0871 numbers.

Yup Kiwi_g - and the covert nature of using the 084X, 087X calls, which were previously bundled or not charged at a higher rate, to skim revenue. It is this avoidance of a proper and clearly promoted and protected revenue sharing channel (09X) that attracts the real opprobrium.

Tanllan wrote on Jun 4^th, 2007 at 10:41am:

Yup Kiwi_g - and the covert nature of using the 084X, 087X calls…

And the persistant lies that come from companies using these numbers. I am fed up of seeing nothing being done.

http://www.ppm-lincs.co.uk/
http://www.click4warehouse.co.uk/
http://www.mouse2house.co.uk/index.php?show=html&page=helpcontact.htm#Contactdetails
http://www.doorwarehouse.co.uk/

The 'doors warehouse' is either clever or stupid - they have their 0845 number (local rate, naturally) but then give their normal 01 number (but call it National rate!!).

Those not familiar with NGMs will automatically think the 0845 is the cheaper one!! Cunning, or stupid??