!0 Downing Street have now issued their response:-


"Thank you for the e-petition about mobile phone operators charges for 0800 and freephone telephone numbers.

The independent Office of Communications (Ofcom)(new window) is responsible for numbering policy in the UK.

Most Freephone numbers begin with "080" followed by a further eight digits. Freephone numbers can also begin with "0800" followed by a further six digits and these are usually free to the caller from fixed landlines. However, with regard to mobile phone network operators, the decision whether or not to charge for telephone calls to Freephone numbers is a commercial one for the mobile companies.
Most mobile phone companies do charge for calls to Freephone numbers. Some operators have an automated announcement to advise the caller of the charge before the call is connected. Callers are therefore fully informed about exactly how much the call will cost them.

The mobile company Orange provides free of charge from the Orange network more than 240 charity and helpline numbers, including Childline, supported by the Telephone Helplines Association. Orange does not charge for voice calls to 0800 numbers, except those identified as calling card services, but data calls are charged.

Other mobile operators have made provision for free calls to some roadside recovery services and Childline 0800 numbers. T-Mobile provides free calls to AA, RAC, Green Flag and Childline. O2 provides free calls to Childline, Bullying Helpline and Crime Stoppers.

loddon wrote on Jul 18^th, 2007 at 7:00pm:

Other mobile operators have made provision for free calls to some roadside recovery services and Childline 0800 numbers. T-Mobile provides free calls to AA, RAC, Green Flag and Childline. O2 provides free calls to Childline, Bullying Helpline and Crime Stoppers.

But for the poor customer its pure pot luck whether the number they need to call is free and there is no rhyme or reason to it.

It wouldn't be so bad if 0800 was treated in the same way as geographic calls, with the airtime taken from bundled minutes (as happens here in the US), but from what I recall, the costs of calling 0800 are the same or similar to the costs for calling other 08 numbers.

So, for most cellphone users, it is more advantageous to call a geographic equivalent than to call an 0800 number.

Ofcom=useless+joke organization

idb wrote on Jul 18^th, 2007 at 11:53pm:

Ofcom=useless+joke organization

Ofcom are now incredibly getting the BBC and other broadcasters to eat humble pie to defect attention away from the fact that this whole problem is in fact a direct result of their own regulatory ineptitude and corruptness.

When I emailed the useless careerist Stephen Carter to expess my disgust at a particularly disgraceful Ch 5 Brainteaser ripoff a year or more ago he didn't even have the courtesy to reply.

Yet the same OfCon is just about to allow the same ripoff industry to explode on to 0871 with their blessing and connivance.

loddon wrote on Jul 18^th, 2007 at 7:00pm:

Some operators have an automated announcement to advise the caller of the charge before the call is connected. Callers are therefore fully informed about exactly how much the call will cost them.

This isn't entirely true.  Last time I had cause to ring a so-called freephone number from my mobile (o2) it did advise me the call wasn't free but said it was charged at 'standard' rates.  How many customers know what o2 mean by 'standard' rate?  That could easily be implied as being same price as a geographical but only if you check their website do you find out that it's 15p/min for PAYG and 20p/min for contract customers.  What is 'standard' about that?

Can anyone else on other mobile networks confirm whether you're informed of the actual price of the call beforehand or just the fact that its not free and charged at 'standard' rates?  (you can disconnect before the call starts ringing to save being charged  ;) )

bbb_uk wrote on Jul 19^th, 2007 at 4:48pm:

loddon wrote on Jul 18th, 2007 at 7:00pm: Some operators have an automated announcement to advise the caller of the charge before the call is connected. Callers are therefore fully informed about exactly how much the call will cost them. This isn't entirely true.

What?  

A government statement which isn't entirely true?  

How could that be?  

Didn't Tony Bliar promise us a 'purer than pure' government all those long years ago?

Heinz wrote on Jul 19^th, 2007 at 4:59pm:

A government statement which isn't entirely true?   How could that be?   Didn't Tony Bliar promise us a 'purer than pure' government all those long years ago?

..Could this be why Tony Blair isn't in charge anymore or one of many reasons.

Besides, you don't know exactly what Ofcom have told the government.  Ofcom may have said that mobile providers state the cost of the calls, etc up front but I doubt if Ofcom actually knows what the mobile networks announce when their customers call freephone numbers.

loddon wrote on Jul 18^th, 2007 at 7:00pm:

… Orange does not charge for voice calls to 0800 numbers, except those identified as calling card services …

This sentance should end "for business customers". They scrapped this for personal customers, but I understand that they still do it for business ones.

So yet again we have numbers that have a misleading term attached to them by the regulator. Where have we heard something like that before?

bbb_uk wrote on Jul 19^th, 2007 at 4:48pm:

This isn't entirely true.  Last time I had cause to ring a so-called freephone number from my mobile (o2) it did advise me the call wasn't free but said it was charged at 'standard' rates.  How many customers know what o2 mean by 'standard' rate?  That could easily be implied as being same price as a geographical but only if you check their website do you find out that it's 15p/min for PAYG and 20p/min for contract customers.  What is 'standard' about that? Can anyone else on other mobile networks confirm whether you're informed of the actual price of the call beforehand or just the fact that its not free and charged at 'standard' rates?  (you can disconnect before the call starts ringing to save being charged  ;) )

Calls to geographics are charged at 20p a minute on my O2 calling tariff so that would be "standard" rate to me. I thought 0800 numbers were included in my free minutes, but when I tried to call one, it said it wasn't free and I had to remove the 0 (making it 800 xxxxxx) before I could call. Weird...

jgxenite wrote on Jul 19^th, 2007 at 11:37pm:

Calls to geographics are charged at 20p a minute on my O2 calling tariff so that would be "standard" rate to me. I thought 0800 numbers were included in my free minutes, but when I tried to call one, it said it wasn't free and I had to remove the 0 (making it 800 xxxxxx) before I could call. Weird...

O2 used to include 0870 and so probably also 0800 in bundled minutes for their contract customers and so may also only have charges Pay As You Go customers standard Pay As You Go rates for these calls.

However O2 found they were losing too much money on 08 numbers and so have now removed them from bundled minutes like all the other mobile operators.

Or depending on your point of view they see that a wholly useless regulator like Ofcom does nothing to stop 0800 calls to people like breakdown services being charged and knowing they can get away with it and make more money join the unscrupulous commercial crowd.

NGMsGhost wrote on Jul 20^th, 2007 at 8:28am:

O2 used to include 0870 and so probably also 0800 in bundled minutes for their contract customers and so may also only have charges Pay As You Go customers standard Pay As You Go rates for these calls. However O2 found they were losing too much money on 08 numbers and so have now removed them from bundled minutes like all the other mobile operators. Or depending on your point of view they see that a wholly useless regulator like Ofcom does nothing to stop 0800 calls to people like breakdown services being charged and knowing they can get away with it and make more money join the unscrupulous commercial crowd.

I'm on one of their "ye olde" contracts before they stopped including 0870 numbers, and I assumed 0800 was included too. Maybe it wasn't... however, I will be mightily peed off if they've taken 08xx numbers out of my free calls without telling me...

jgxenite wrote on Jul 19^th, 2007 at 11:37pm:

Calls to geographics are charged at 20p a minute on my O2 calling tariff so that would be "standard" rate to me.

I think different o2 contracts charge differing rates for "standard" (ie geographical calls).  I'm on PAYG and I pay 25p/min for first 3mins each day and then only 5p/min for remainder of the day for "standard" calls.

I'd complain to Ofcom but they're not bothered I can imagine because if they did anything it would possibly be to the (slight) detriment of teleco's moreso than us consumers and we all know that Ofcom doesn't like doing anything to upset teleco's.  ;)

NGMsGhost wrote on Jul 20^th, 2007 at 8:28am:

However O2 found they were losing too much money on 08 numbers and so have now removed them from bundled minutes like all the other mobile operators.

TBH, I'm surprised o2 included them for so long after all the other networks stopped.  Voda stopped including theirs years ago if I remember correctly.

jgxenite wrote on Jul 20^th, 2007 at 10:07am:

... Maybe it wasn't... however, I will be mightily peed off if they've taken 08xx numbers out of my free calls without telling me...

Remember, you can call freephone numbers at geographical rates (being from inclusive minutes where applicable) using the dial through number 020 0222 0700 or 020 0222 0900.

If you have inclusive x-net minutes on any network you can call 0800/0808/0500 numbers and 0845 numbers as well at Evening and Weekends only by using the www.pre-dial.com 07730 access number. Click on Free Destination list for details.

O2 old ( Tariffs) contracts still include ngn numbers in their inclusive minutes apart from 0871. At the present time if you ask O2 they will still put you on an old tariff including these numbers.

moneysavin wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2007 at 2:37am:

O2 old ( Tariffs) contracts still include ngn numbers in their inclusive minutes apart from 0871. At the present time if you ask O2 they will still put you on an old tariff including these numbers.

I didn't know that.  According to their website here and specifically their small print:


Quote:

± The 20p/min rate applies on all Pay Monthly plans where customers have connected or upgraded from 27 April 2007 onwards, and calls to these numbers are not included in bundle minutes for these plans.  Customers who have connected or upgraded to a Pay Monthly plan before April 27 will be charged as for standard UK landlines (01 & 02 numbers).

They make clear that new connections or upgrades from 27th April 2007 will find that all 08x numbers are chargable and not included in inclusive minutes.

However, like you said, "at the present time..", so it wont be long before they are told they can no longer do that as well.

Can anyone else confirm whether other networks actually inform you of the actual cost of calling freephone numbers, or just simply state something along the lines of 'standard' rates apply.

T-mobile don't tell you the rate, just that it's not free.

GrahamH wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2007 at 1:14am:

T-mobile don't tell you the rate, just that it's not free.

Thank you.

Does t-mobile say anything about the call costing 'standard rates' or something along those lines?

So we know that o2 and T-mobile don't tell you the rate - just that it's not free.  How about other mobile networks?

Dave wrote on Jul 21^st, 2007 at 7:48pm:

Remember, you can call freephone numbers at geographical rates (being from inclusive minutes where applicable) using the dial through number 020 0222 0700 or 020 0222 0900.

And this demonstrates the full insanity of the Ofcom-created numbering plan. Imagine trying to explain to a new resident of the UK that the cheapest method of calling freephone numbers from a mobile phone is first, to dial a London number, and then, once connected, dial the freephone number. Completely bonkers.

idb wrote on Jul 24^th, 2007 at 9:56pm:

And this demonstrates the full insanity of the Ofcom-created numbering plan. …

Indeed. The National Telephone Numbering Plan might as well be torn up.

Dave wrote on Jul 25^th, 2007 at 7:32am:

idb wrote on Jul 24th, 2007 at 9:56pm: And this demonstrates the full insanity of the Ofcom-created numbering plan. … Indeed. The National Telephone Numbering Plan might as well be torn up.

Ofcom has already done that by destroying Oftel's plans - at least Oftel had employed some people who understood numbering.

Tanllan wrote on Jul 25^th, 2007 at 9:56pm:

Ofcom has already done that by destroying Oftel's plans - at least Oftel had employed some people who understood numbering.

Indeed - Oftel did appear to employ some people who were technically competent wrt numbering issues. Ofcom, on the other hand, seems to employ slick marketing types who have no comprehension regarding what they are supposed to be regulating.

The most appalling evidence of this is the response to the last 0870 consultation, which ensured that, whilst the 0870 scam would cease, it would shift, as predicted by many, to 084X and 0871.

A Mickey Mouse (tm) organization.

Quote:

A Mickey Mouse (tm) organization.

A bit unfair to Mickey, methinks......  ;D

A least you could see that 6 foot rat!
This lot sneak in like his smaller cousins.