Windsor Telecom give the following information on the 03 range of numbers.

Extract from:    http://www.windsor-telecom.co.uk/03-numbers-information.php

START Quote

Information on 03 UK Wide Numbers
OFCOM, the UK Telecommunications regulator, has created the new 03 number range to improve trust and confidence in UK phone numbers. 03 numbers will be used by public service organisations, charities and companies that want a national presence, but who do not wish to make an additional charge to consumers for contacting them.

The 03 phone numbers will formally be known as ’UK-wide’ numbers and are being introduced as an alternative to chargeable 08 phone numbers such as 0845, 0870 and 0871 Numbers. Consumers will have a clear understanding of the price that they are paying for a call to an 03 number, as the cost of calling will be the same as calls to geographic numbers (normal landlines starting 01 or 02).

Telecoms operators will be required to offer the same discount schemes that currently apply to geographic numbers. All Operators have the flexibility to adjust their bundled and all-inclusive prices for calls to 01, 02 and 03 numbers in competition with each other. OFCOM has also requested that calls to 03 numbers from mobiles and payphones are treated in the same way as calls to normal landline numbers.

A main advantage of 03 numbers over geographic numbers is that enhanced services can be provided such as call statistics, advanced call plans and disaster recovery solutions. 03 numbers can also be given out as the number that identifies your call (CLI) to the number that you have dialled (this product is called ‘presentation number’ and can be supplied by your outbound call supplier).

No Revenue Sharing on 03 Numbers
Revenue sharing will not be permitted on 03 numbers. Currently many consumers are unhappy that some organisations who use 0845, 0870 and 0871 numbers receive a share of what the consumer pays to make a call. 03 numbers are therefore likely to be perceived as being more ethical and customer friendly.

The Different 03 Number Ranges
0300 Numbers and 0303 Numbers

The 030 range has been specially designated by Ofcom for use by public bodies and non for profit organisations. The range includes 0300 numbers and 0303 numbers. Ofcom has provided detailed information on who is eligible for 030 numbers and you’re able to visit our 030 Numbers Eligibility page for further information.


0330 Numbers and 0333 Numbers

The 033 range does not carry eligibly criteria and therefore are open to any business or organisation who wishes to use them. The range includes 0330 numbers and 0333 numbers and offers a wide range of unique and exiting benefits to UK business. Windsor Telecom has some of the most memorable 03 numbers available, such as 0330 900 0000 and 0333 666 6000.


03 Migration Numbers

This range is available to any business who already posses 08 non geographic numbers and wish to obtain their equivalent 03 migration number. These may include 0845 numbers, 0844 numbers and 0871 or 0870 national rate numbers. For example, someone with 0845 130 8080 can apply for 0345 130 8080 and so on. Learn more on our 03 migration numbers page.


What Will Happen To Existing 08 Number Ranges?
All of the existing 08 number ranges will remain. However, the cost of calling certain ranges, such as 0870, is likely to reduce. Companies and organisations that use 084x and 087x numbers will be given the opportunity to acquire the equivalent 03 migration number if this is more beneficial to them. Many services requiring revenue outpayments are likely to stay on the 08 ranges, with new numbers allocated as required by demand.      

END quote

Notice they are still stating:-

03 Migration Numbers

This range is available to any business who already posses 08 non geographic numbers and wish to obtain their equivalent 03 migration number. These may include 0845 numbers, 0844 numbers and 0871 or 0870 national rate numbers. For example, someone with 0845 130 8080 can apply for 0345 130 8080 and so on. Learn more on our 03 migration numbers page.

kk wrote on Aug 30^th, 2007 at 11:04pm:

OFCOM, the UK Telecommunications regulator, has created the new 03 number range to improve trust and confidence in UK phone numbers. 03 numbers will be used by public service organisations, charities and companies that want a national presence, but who do not wish to make an additional charge to consumers for contacting them. Revenue sharing will not be permitted on 03 numbers. ]Currently many consumers are unhappy that some organisations who use 0845, 0870 and 0871 numbers receive a share of what the consumer pays to make a call. 03 numbers are therefore likely to be perceived as being more ethical and customer friendly.

Did you ever think you might hear this from the lips of Windsor Telecom.

It virtually amounts to a total admission that everything they have been doing over the last few years has involved scamming the great british public. :o >:( [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif]

I was wondering if 0345 would make an appearance...

So all the old 0345 numbers that went to 08457 can now go back... nearly...

Some more interesting info on the A&A 03 page including some details on the 055 number range that I didn't know. (In fact, I don't think I've ever seen an 055 number in use!)

I've not seen an 055 number but I have an 056 number - it's a BT Broadband Talk VoIP number

I'm pretty impressed as its near enough accurate where as normally I'd expect a CP to downplay 03x and try and get their customers on alternative numbers like 0844, 0845 and 0871.

Does anyone know.
Are all the 03 numbers fully accessable from all overseas countries at normal  geo rates from that country. What about from local mobiles from overseas?

Will the 03 range have the same capabilities as  with 0870/1 and 0845 numbers where they can be switched around the country to diff call centres ?

Alan

Thanks for the link “irrelevent” to the Andrews and Arnold site.

Plenty of useful insight on the attitude to the new 03 range.   Looks like 28th August 2007 was “03" day.

http://www.aa.gg/aa/voip/03.html

More deceptions are being laid to rest.  Quoting from the AA site:

Start quote....
UK wide numbering
0845 and 0870 numbers
Two number types (0845 local and 0870 national) have caused concern. The concept was simple - 0845 is local rate and 0870 is national rate. A nice idea as alternatives to real local and national numbers without having a specific area of the country.

Unfortunately the prices were set based on the undiscounted standard BT rate for calling a local or national number. Over the years prices for calling landline numbers have dropped dramatically and nobody pays BT standard rates. This makes 0870 expensive to call and many times the actual cost of a national call to a landline number. Even 0845 are expensive compared to local calls.

To add to the complication 0845 and 0870 numbers are often not included in call packages and free call allowances. The fact that these numbers cost more means the telcos get more, and so they have become in effect a low cost premium rate service.

There are even campaigns and web sites trying to "say no to 0870" which all helps to reduce public acceptance of such numbers.
End quote

alan99 wrote on Aug 31^st, 2007 at 6:16pm:

Does anyone know. Are all the 03 numbers fully accessable from all overseas countries at normal  geo rates from that country. What about from local mobiles from overseas?

This is entirely upto the overseas operator (whether landline or mobile) but I assume that because no revenue sharing will take place on this number range then an overseas operator is most likely going to treat it as an ordinary 01 or 02 number.  Ofcom have no remit over any operator outside the UK so cannot force them to only charge their normal price for calling a UK 01/02 number.

However, with any new number range it can take a while (not sure of usual time but I've heard it can take more than 6months sometimes depending on operator) for 03x to be dialled from overseas.


Quote:

Will the 03 range have the same capabilities as  with 0870/1 and 0845 numbes where they can be switched around the country to diff call centres ?

Yes, all features available on 0844, 0845, 0870 and 0871 will be available on 03x as it uses similar methods to handle calls.

The main difference between 03x and 084x/087x is that in most cases, the features (well basic features) used by companies/gov depts were free because it was paid for by anyone ringing an 084x/087x whereas any company/gov dept using an 03x will have to pay for such features and it's likely that they'll also have to pay for incoming calls as well.

Ok thanks bb.
So it seems Uk companies may still need to quote an 01/02 number alongside an 03 for overseas callers. Bet some wont therefore possibly costing callers from overseas more.

Alan

http://ipcommunications.tmcnet.com/news/2007/07/20/305045.htm


Quote:

Windsor chief executive Neil Sherring was quoted in the report as saying, “03 numbers will be the ‘angel’ of numbers. Their introduction will enable public bodies and private companies to restore public confidence in calling them and create a clear understanding of call charges. As there will be no revenue sharing on 03 numbers, they are likely to be perceived as being more ethical and customer friendly.” Unlike 0845 numbers where callers pay local rates, or 0870 numbers where callers pay a national rate, 03 numbers will be completely transparent, costing no more than a standard landline phone call. They will replace the U.K.’s popular 0845 numbers.

bbb_uk wrote on Aug 31^st, 2007 at 6:45pm:

Ofcom have no remit over any operator outside the UK so cannot force them to only charge their normal price for calling a UK 01/02 number.

 


Do they have any remit over any operator IN the UK ?  ;D ;D

~ Edited by Dave: Quote box tidied up

Well I signed up for an 03 number (voip, from A&A) to try it it out.
I Won't be giving it out for some time I think..:

Whilst it dials from BT line fine, and rings here...

1615 (Tiscali) gives NU
18866 (call18866.co.uk) tells me, correctly, 0p/min but then rings engaged
voipcheap.com tells me to check the number I have dialed.
O2 mobile says it's an invalid number.
020 0222 0700 and 020 0222 0900 both say "that number cannot be dialed from this account."

irrelevant wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2007 at 8:17pm:

020 0222 0700 and 020 0222 0900 both say "that number cannot be dialed from this account."

I thought these numbers were only freephone dial through numbers. 03 isn't a freephone number so is presumably not dialable through those numbers.

jgxenite wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2007 at 9:44pm:

irrelevant wrote on Sep 2nd, 2007 at 8:17pm: 020 0222 0700 and 020 0222 0900 both say "that number cannot be dialed from this account." I thought these numbers were only freephone dial through numbers. 03 isn't a freephone number so is presumably not dialable through those numbers.

Ah, whoops.  I was just going though my list of ways to dial numbers :-)  Hadn't twigged that they were freephone only, as I don't actually have to use them very often..

No worries - it did strike me as odd that you'd tried to dial a non-free number from them :).

derrick wrote on Sep 1^st, 2007 at 4:01pm:

Do they have any remit over any operator IN the UK ?  ;D ;D

Well I think they do but of course choose not to instead us citizens are left to last when Ofcom decide on things - everything always seems to be in favour of telco's!   ;)  ;)

I haven't been getting notification emails for this thread today even though I changed the address registered with SayNoTo0870 to a completely different ISP.

Something wrong somewhere. :-/

I've been getting notification emails all day so not sure what the problem is NGM.

jgxenite wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2007 at 9:12pm:

I've been getting notification emails all day so not sure what the problem is NGM.

I got the email for your post jgxenite but obviously my new posting would have kicked the notification engine in to re-remembering that I was subscribed to the thread and to send me an email.

bbb_uk wrote on Aug 31^st, 2007 at 5:16pm:

I'm pretty impressed as its near enough accurate where as normally I'd expect a CP to downplay 03x and try and get their customers on alternative numbers like 0844, 0845 and 0871.

Yes but don't forget that someone at Windsor Telecom will have been given the job of selling these new 03 numbers to companies for which they are the right product and how do you go about selling a number that costs a company extra to run unless you point out all its advantages to their customers compared to 084 and 087 numbers.

Also don't forget that Windsor will be trying to persude organisations like Nationwide Building Society and John Lewis who have resisted 084/7 numbers up to now to get 03 numbers due to all the whizzo call stats and call routing features they can have.  So Windsor see it as a new sales opportunity for an expanded NGN customer base while at the same time converting all their hard nosed 0870 customers to 0871 on which they will then no doubt earn an even bigger amount of revenue share along with their clients. ;) >:( [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif]

NGMsGhost wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2007 at 9:37pm:

...due to all the whizzo call stats and call routing features they can have.

Aside, of course, from all the stats available on geo numbers and the massive call routing available with IP based networks. ;D
Absolutely right NGM'sG, but surely some of these companies must employ competent comms managers; after all the Nationwide has it right with refusing to accept the 2.75% penal foreign rate. :)

NGMsGhost wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2007 at 9:37pm:

[Also don't forget that Windsor will be trying to persude organisations like Nationwide Building Society and John Lewis who have resisted 084/7 numbers up to now .....  ]

I have taken a look at their websites and .... oh no.... Nationwide 'contact us, telephone numbers' are nearly all 0845.   There are also a number of 0870 numbers for various types of insurance.    On the other hand there are some 0500 and 0800 numbers --- to apply for personal loans, travel insurance enquiries, mortgage insurance, car insurance enquiries.  A credit card brochure request is 0800 but payment insurance is 0870.    They do give an alternative international call number 44 + geo number with most of their 0845s.   So sadly, I think we have to say that Nationwide have not resisted 084/087. :'(

John Lewis also  publish 0845 for their customer service and fax numbers and "your orders".   I can find no geo /international numbers on their website. :'(

However, this website, SAYNO...  does provide geo and 0800 alternatives for those who have the gumption to look. :)

Do we have, or could we build and maintain, a list of those companies, like MBNA, which DO fully avoid 084/087
numbers?    This could be most useful to us during campaigning in the future.

NGMsGhost wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2007 at 9:37pm:

Also don't forget that Windsor will be trying to persude organisations .... to get 03 numbers due to all the whizzo call stats and call routing features they can have.

NGM, can you point to an authoritative statement/website which sets out all these whizzo features provided by 084/087 numbers?    Do you know which, if any, whizzo features can not be obtained when simply using a geo number?    Apart from revenue sharing, I am trying to understand what are the benefits of 084/087 to the organisations that use them.

1) Revenue Share
2) Call routeing without paying extra onward (e.g. without the *21*xxxx# type of divert charges)
3) Can't think of any other honest ones just at the moment...
4) Save that the caller funds it all.
5) Without realising it

One big benefit I found - the 0870 I used to use had CLI translation on it, so I could forward it to my home phone and know which number someone had dialed to reach me!  

They also offered answerphone and fax to email, call diversions options, etc, although I didn't use those.   Oh, and a means to dial out using the 0870 as a presentation number.  All handy for a one-man-band like me, but probably not relevant to the sorts of big business that most users of this site are concerned with.

Tanllan wrote on Sep 5^th, 2007 at 3:37pm:

1) Revenue Share 2) Call routeing without paying extra onward (e.g. without the *21*xxxx# type of divert charges) 3) Can't think of any other honest ones just at the moment... 4) Save that the caller funds it all. 5) Without realising it

So you can only think of one thing --- call routeing without divert charges?    Are sure this cannot be achieved somehow from a geo number base?

What about all the whizzo stats etc, what are these?    Or are you saying that all these stats can equally be obtained using a geo number provding you set up the system to collect them?

irrelevant wrote on Sep 5^th, 2007 at 3:46pm:

One big benefit I found - the 0870 I used to use had CLI translation on it, so I could forward it to my home phone and know which number someone had dialed to reach me!   They also offered answerphone and fax to email, call diversions options, etc, although I didn't use those.   Oh, and a means to dial out using the 0870 as a presentation number.  All handy for a one-man-band like me, but probably not relevant to the sorts of big business that most users of this site are concerned with.

CLI?   Does this mean Caller Line Identification.    If this is correct then isn't that just caller display to ordinary people?    You can get this with any geo number.

Answerphone and fax to email, call diversions?   Can't you do all this with a normal number?   I have an answerphone and auto switch for fax calls on my little old machine at home.    What do you mean by a presentation number?    How is this different/unique to NTS numbers?

I am looking for special facilities that can ONLY be obtained with a NGN.

I'm sure I've mentioned this before but to be able to operate multiple call centres and hold many hundreds or even more in a queue would be unbelievably expensive to do it via geo numbers. The main reason is the cost of PBX equipment.

I suppose it may be possible to do everything via geo but do you really think and expect a company/gov dept to pay for this and that it wouldn't be passed on to us consumers in some way or another.

I've always said that in a lot of the cases, companies/gov depts using 0845 are most likely doing so because its a hell of a lot cheaper and easier (which in theory means its cheaper for us consumers/customers).

Now those using 0844 (most at 4p/min or 5p/min) or 087x are prob doing so for the revenue but trying to make out that its the network features.

This is where 03x comes in. It will have the same advantages (ie network features) as 084/087 but it wont cost us customers/consumers anymore to ring than a geo.  The organisation using 03x will most likely have to pay an incoming fee per minute but this may be cheaper than paying for the hardware needed to do everything via geo.

Remember, it's not just the cost of the hardware (PBX's, etc) that organisations have to worry about but the storage and maintenance costs.  Organisations that operate between multiple call centres may also have to pay for diversion costs to other call centres once a call centre is too busy and can't take anymore calls (ie hold them in a queue).  I also suspect that more lines would be needed which obviously costs more rental as well.

loddon wrote on Sep 5^th, 2007 at 6:46pm:

Answerphone and fax to email, call diversions?   Can't you do all this with a normal number?

I've not heard of fax to email being done without substantial costs on a geo?


Quote:

What do you mean by a presentation number?    How is this different/unique to NTS numbers?

A presentation number is the number left on peoples caller display units.  For example, if Sky ring they leave an 0870 or other number on our caller display units - this is what presentation number is.


Quote:

I am looking for special facilities that can ONLY be obtained with a NGN.

You have to look at the bigger picture and that is cost.  Like I said in my last post, the cost of hardware, renting of extra lines, storage, diversion costs (if applicable) to other call centres, maintenance, etc, etc... all adds up.

This, in my opinion (as much as I do hate the use of such numbers) is where I think 0845 is a compromise.  What I really hate is the common misconception of it being local rate, etc.  It should be known as a premium rate number albeit lower amounts than existing 09x numbers.

loddon wrote on Sep 5^th, 2007 at 6:46pm:

CLI?   Does this mean Caller Line Identification.    If this is correct then isn't that just caller display to ordinary people?    You can get this with any geo number. Answerphone and fax to email, call diversions?   Can't you do all this with a normal number?   I have an answerphone and auto switch for fax calls on my little old machine at home.    What do you mean by a presentation number?    How is this different/unique to NTS numbers? I am looking for special facilities that can ONLY be obtained with a NGN.

Yes, caller-id.  but I could set it to show the 0870 number to me, rather than the caller's number.  This let me see what sort of call it was without any special equipment at my end.   And they offered a dial throuh where theperson I wanted to call would then see my 0870, not the home number.

Obviously nothing here is impossible to do yourself, on any kind of number you like, and I plan on doing most of it myself once I get an asterisk server up and running again.  

I think it's more a case of how the network handles the call - 01/02 numbers seem to get hard-routed direct to exchanges (witness problems with ported numbers, which I recall have to bounce off the orginal exchange to be sent onwards to the new suppliers exchange.) wheras 08* and 03* numbers are NTS and can go direct to the service provider to deal with as they see fit, usually being directed back onto the PSTN to a geographic number, but more and more often being sent on via VOIP.

I think the point is, NTS makes it easier for a service provider to do the fancy stuff in-house, with obvious economies of scale, wheras with 01/02 numbers you have to have a number allocation and a physical presence on each exchange, or even at the subscriber premesis, to achieve it.  At the end of the day, it's just cheaper to provide these facilities on an NTS number.

Thank you bbb_uk, your responses are helpful.   I am genuinely trying to understand how the NGN underlying systems work.   I am not trying to argue any particular point.   I am trying to find out what are the "whizzo" facilities that others are referring to.    I am still relatively new to this Forum and I have not read the thousands of posts that go back, I guess, several years.

loddon wrote on Sep 5^th, 2007 at 7:16pm:

Thank you bbb_uk, your responses are helpful.   I am genuinely trying to understand how the NGN underlying systems work.

Given that many of the known geographical area code numbers connect straight to the same call centre at the same entry point, some even declared as such by the company's staff when people ask for help ...

... no difference at all

Andrews & Arnold are using 03333 numbers for all contact including support. See here.

If 03 numbers are live now, then I have to say there are still a huge number of adverts for phone services that say inclusive calls, etc. that are for "01/02 numbers only". For example, the Sky Talk adverts that are on Classic FM at the moment. Having said that, their websitesays:

Quote:

UK calls do not include calls to mobiles, the Channel Islands, non-geographic and premium rate numbers e.g. those starting 08, 09 and 118.

Hopefully it's just an indication that the adverts are out of date, not that they will try to exclude 03 numbers from inclusive calls packages.

I've seen a few saying 01/02/03 now..  In any case, Ofcom have mandated that they be treated the same as 01/02.

...when they finally work from all networks ...

Dave wrote on Sep 7^th, 2007 at 9:34am:

Andrews & Arnold are using 03333 numbers for all contact including support. See here.

Trouble is, they don't work from my BT line (or via 18185).

Heinz wrote on Sep 13^th, 2007 at 8:25am:

Trouble is, they don't work from my BT line (or via 18185).

Have you logged a complaint with OfCoN?

Heinz wrote on Sep 13^th, 2007 at 8:25am:

Dave wrote on Sep 7th, 2007 at 9:34am: Andrews & Arnold are using 03333 numbers for all contact including support. See here. Trouble is, they don't work from my BT line (or via 18185).

For info, I get NU after dialling 03333 on our C&W lines.

pw4 wrote on Sep 13^th, 2007 at 12:52pm:

For info, I get NU after dialling 03333 on our C&W lines.

I have a Post Office HomePhone line here and the Andrews & Arnold 03333 sales number is getting a ringing tone with no problem.

Yet my previous understanding was that Cable & Wireless were the call suppliers for all of the Post Office HomePhone's phone call service and I was getting problems a year ago with lots of 0871 and 0844 dial through services giving the NU tone and with those area codes also not being shown in the Post Office HomePhone price list.

Perhaps most likely is that the connectivity issue has now been fixed as clearly Andrews & Arnold would be likely to follow up complaints pretty vigorously with Ofcom and the major UK Call conveying companies.

The major issue is going to be connectivity from overseas carriers in the short term, although once they get word that all 03 calls are at normal rates I am sure they will allow them through.  Naturally they are feeling cautious after the ridiculous fiasco with numerous different rates on the 08 code prefix.  And who is blame for this - why OfCoN of course! >:( >:( >:( [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif]

And what is Ofcom doing to publicise or explain the 03 code to the public.  Why Sweet FA.  Surprise, surprise seeing as how it only means losing money for their mates in the telco industry.  Strange how they so readily took full page newspaper adverts last year about the benefits of de-regulating BT price controls that have subsequently resulted in massive price rises for BT Option 1 customers. ::) >:( :'(

An interesting run down on the introduction history of 03 numbers is given on the Andrews & Arnold site:-

www.aaisp.net/aa/voip/03.html


Quote:

* 21st August 2007: 033340 numbers now working from at least some BT exchanges, a week before the in-service date of the 28th. As such we have now opened up 033 numbers on our on-line ordering pages. Note, 030 numbers not yet working.    * 10th August 2007: We are still on track for 28th Aug for 03 numbers, both 033 and 030.    * 12th July 2007: BT announced the call rate of 0333 numbers (being the same as 01/02 geographic).    * 9th July 2007: We are now being told that it will be Aug 28th before we get our 033 number block live on BT. We are trying to get this sorted sooner as this is yet another delay from BT for no good reason.    * 6th July 2007: We now have an allocation in 03000, which is for non profit organisation. Please contact sales if you think you qualify for 030 numbers.    * 1st July 2007: We have applied for an 030 block from OFCOM. This is just the same as 033 except that it is specially for non-profit organisations. For 030 numbers please contact sales.    * 22nd June 2007: BT are not yet routing 033 numbers - looks like they have messed up some how and it could be another 3 weeks.    * 22nd June 2007: We should have our first 03 numbers available from BT lines and will start selling 03 VoIP services. We aim to offer both individual numbers and blocks of 03 numbers (primarily for business use).    * 12th June 2007: BT have finally confirmed pricing for 03 numbers at g21 rate with all normal discounts and inclusive packages. This means that when charged they are priced between local and national. However, people with 01 and 02 off peak calls included get 03 calls included as well, and they can also be in friends and family and other discount packages the same as 01 and 02 numbers.

Dave wrote on Sep 7^th, 2007 at 9:34am:

Andrews & Arnold are using 03333 numbers for all contact including support. See here.

A few tests have revealed:

Dialling 03333 400 111 via my CPS (Primus Saver Option 2) results in an " The service cannot be connected" announcement.

Dialling 03333 400 111 via BT (i.e. using the 1280 override prefix) results in ring tone (so, I assume, successful).

Dialling 03333 400 111 via 18185 (i.e. using a 18185 prefix) results in an "The number you have dialled has not been recognised.  Please check and try again" announcement after the usual "Zero p per minute" tariff announcement.

Dialling 03333 400 111 via 1899 (i.e. using a 1899 prefix) results in an "The number you have dialled has not been recognised.  Please check and try again" announcement after the usual "Zero p per minute" tariff announcement.

Dialling 03333 400 111 via 18866 (i.e. using a 18866 prefix) results in an "The number you have dialled has not been recognised.  Please check and try again" announcement after the usual "Zero p per minute" tariff announcement.

Astonishingly, when I queried my inability to dial an 03 number with Primus, they repllied:


Quote:

Thanks for your enquiry We are not aware of such a prefix and the only way round this is to use the 1280 BT override code as the 03333 numbers will not be added to our switch. Many Thanks John McAllister Primus Telecommunications Ltd

Heinz wrote on Sep 14^th, 2007 at 6:40pm:

Astonishingly, when I queried my inability to dial an 03 number with Primus, they repllied: Quote: We are not aware of such a prefix

O2 said pretty much the same to me ....  but after ~20 mins waiting on a call for them to work it out, I had to abandon it because I had to take a call on the landline.  They haven't replied to my email support queries.

18866 (same company 1899 and 18185) tell me:
Quote:

18866 Service <service@call18866.co.uk>            to me Dear customer, We are currently looking into the matter. More information will be posted on our web site as it becomes available. Kind regards, Customer service

The Andrews & Arnold website suggests they want you to report any carriers that you cannot get through to their 03 numbers with so they can take it up with them and resolve the issue.  They have an interest in doing this as they not only have 03 numbers but are also one of the first companies in the UK to be trying to sell them to other businesses to use.

They do mention near the bottom of the Contact Us page that their old 01 contact numbers are still available with the same final 6 digits as the 03 numbers but using their old area code prefix.

Now I wonder if the introduction of 03 as an access code might have gone just a little better if Ofcom had chosen to give some major publicity to the issue. ;) ::) >:( :'(

As to wasting 20 minutes of your time arguing with customer services imbeciles at O2 I can only conclude that you perhaps enjoy bashing your head very hard on an unyielding brick wall.  An email to their CEO and other operations related board directors might perhaps actually be more likely to get you somewhere.

Well, the BT "Specialised numbers" "Pricing information brochure" makes interesting reading. Find the PDF via:
http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayTopic.do?topicId=15737

According to this, 0300, 0306 etc. are "g21" calls, which are "Calls to New Voice Services". This is the same as 055 VOIP numbers, and it says they cost 4.89/2.00/1.18p per minute.

Has anyone actually made a call to one of these numbers via BT Option 1 and checked their bill to make sure the cost is the same as a 01/02 number?

jrawle wrote on Sep 14^th, 2007 at 10:53pm:

Has anyone actually made a call to one of these numbers via BT Option 1 and checked their bill to make sure the cost is the same as a 01/02 number?

Did you notice my quote from the Andrews & Arnold site five posts above about the introduction of the new 03 number range:-


Quote:

12th June 2007: BT have finally confirmed pricing for 03 numbers at g21 rate with all normal discounts and inclusive packages. This means that when charged they are priced between local and national. However, people with 01 and 02 off peak calls included get 03 calls included as well, and they can also be in friends and family and other discount packages the same as 01 and 02 numbers.

The above sounds like pretty much like indecipherable and meaningless gobbledegook but on closer reading it seems to imply that 03 numbers are priced differently from 01 and 02 numbers for individual call pricing tariffs but yet are still part of geographic inclusive call packages.  If this is true then Ofcom have lied to everbody in a massive way and these calls will not be carried on non inclusive call packages like BT Option 1 or with 18185 etc at the same price as 01/02 calls. :o :o :o >:( >:( >:( [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif]

Yet the Andrews & Arnold website area about the new 03 number range at www.aaisp.net/aa/voip/03.html also points to the Ofcom statement about the new 03 number range at:- www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/numbering03/statement/

This statement contains the following important commitments by Ofcom:-


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the creation of a new range of numbers - beginning with ‘03’ – which we think many customers will trust to a significant degree. Consumers will pay no more to call 03 numbers than they would to call a geographic number (beginning with ‘01’ or ‘02’). We think that many businesses, public services and voluntary services will want to enable their customers to call them on 03 numbers rather than 08 numbers;

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1.13 The new 03 range is designed to provide consumer certainty and confidence to make calls. It will thereby address the key customer concerns about many 08 numbers, and should increase willingness to make calls. The 03 range will deliver benefits in that:    * call tariffs and call discounts will be the same as calls to geographic (01 or 02) numbers. This applies to all call minutes, including ones that are part of the customer’s inclusive minutes;    * revenue sharing is not permitted, so callers can know in advance that they are paying only for the call, not for contributions to the organisation being called; and    * Ofcom has made available a dedicated part of the 03 number range for the exclusive use of public bodies and other not-for-profit organisations, to make it easier for them to offer 03 services using memorable numbers.

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1.18 The GC 17 amendment means that all OCPs who have retail relationships with consumers have the following obligations deriving from the Plan amendments made in the February document, and the GC 17 amendment that takes effect today:    * For 03 calls, retail pricing must match that for calls to 01 and 02 numbers, with immediate effect. This includes a requirement to treat calls to 03 numbers like calls to standard 01 and 02 numbers in respect of their inclusion in bundled minutes and whether they qualify for discount packages; and

So all the above suggests all forms of calls to 03 numbers including one off ad-hoc calls on basic tariffs must be charged the same way as 01/02 numbers.

However the only mention I can find of the g21 code in PostOfficeHomePhone's tarriff listings is at ftp://ftp.royalmail.com/Downloads/public/ctf/po/F9104_Number_Ranges.pdf

Here it states an Operator Connect rate to Voice Services - g21 at a Connection Price of 419.9p and a per minute rate of 36p.  Now I do know this is the Operator Connect rate that Post Office HomePhone also charges for 01/02 calls from a past bad experience when I was charged for a call misrouting problem to my sister's number and dialled 100 (which is the Post Office HomePhone Operator service provided by BT) to ask about the issue and that this is the charge that BT secretly inflicts on rival WLR carrier customers who use Operator services even though it does not ever impose this discretionary flat rate charge on its own customers.

But in the Post Office HomePhone's main pricing page at www.postoffice.co.uk/portal/po/content2?catId=19300217&mediaId=19800178 it merely states:-

Call Type                             Daytime               Evening                                 Weekend
Local and National Calls          3p              Free (for up to 60 mins)       Free (for up to 60 mins)

But does not state the number ranges it considers to be Local and National Calls.

I just called Post Office HomePhone's 24 hour customer service line and they tell me that the Andrews & Arnold numbers come up as Invalid when they enter them in their call charge database but they feel sure if I can get a ringing tone on them then they must be a new form of Premium Rate Number.  They suggest calling back Monday to Friday 9am to 5pm.............................. >:( :'(

Ofcom, who couldn't organise the proverbial festival for free consumption of alcohol in an establishment for making beer, is once again to be congratulated on making a truly monumental cockup of the launch of the new 03 number range and for failing to give it any publicity whatsoever.  And yet because they care so little for their public image they don't even bother to participate in any of the threads on this website to try and ever set the record straight.  Whatever you may say about NEG at least some of their employees are prepared to stick their head above the parapet on this discussion board.

irrelevant wrote on Sep 14^th, 2007 at 6:55pm:

O2 said pretty much the same to me ....  but after ~20 mins waiting on a call for them to work it out, I had to abandon it because I had to take a call on the landline.  They haven't replied to my email support queries.

O2 has 03 numbers shown on its website as being charged "As per standard UK fixed line calls" for both PAYG and pay monthly customers. See here.


jrawle wrote on Sep 14^th, 2007 at 10:53pm:

Well, the BT "Specialised numbers" "Pricing information brochure" makes interesting reading. Find the PDF via: http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayTopic.do?topicId=15737 According to this, 0300, 0306 etc. are "g21" calls, which are "Calls to New Voice Services". This is the same as 055 VOIP numbers, and it says they cost 4.89/2.00/1.18p per minute.

That is on page 21 (page 23 of the PDF) under the heading "Call Prices - Basic Inland Call Charges" with the note "(Charges for calls to some call types differ for BT Together customers - see pages 35, 36 and 37)".

So, in English, these charges apply to Light User Scheme and other 'non-discounted' tariffs. The same information is available on the BT Price List here.

Call rates for BT Together start on page 35 (page 37 of PDF), but make no mention of g21. I believe that this is an oversight as the page on the BT Price List for BT Together Option 1, here, says, under the table for 01/02 call rates "* - "UK" includes calls to any number range charged at g21 rates and shown as 11 under Categorisation for Customer Options in Section 2 Part 11". Same applies for Option 2 and Option 3.

Dave wrote on Sep 15^th, 2007 at 6:52am:

irrelevant wrote on Sep 14th, 2007 at 6:55pm: O2 said pretty much the same to me ....  but after ~20 mins waiting on a call for them to work it out, I had to abandon it because I had to take a call on the landline.  They haven't replied to my email support queries. O2 has 03 numbers shown on its website as being charged "As per standard UK fixed line calls" for both PAYG and pay monthly customers. See here.

Ah yes, that's reassuring.  Of course, it would help if I could actually call the numbers, rather than get a "number was not recognised" voice message!  (It may be because i'm on an old legacy tariff, but it sounds like a network message...)

As usual, BT's pricing information is as clear as mud. What is clear is that 03 numbers are not being treated in exactly the same way as 01/02 calls, which entirely defeats the object of introducing them. Perhaps the Sky advert is actually correct, and 03 calls aren't included, in which case 03 could become the new 0870 as other operators follow suit.

This is the message I get via VoIPStunt on my ATA (have dial plans so I don't need to dial 0044 etc).

This is the message from a Virgin Media line.

This is from a Three mobile.

This is the message from a Virgin Mobile.

A NGN is no longer needed so that calls can be routed intelligently - geographic calls are no longer necessarily presented at the local exchange.  I have an Isle of Skye geographic number which is routed through Magarathea Telecom to my ISP then to my SIP phone.  The call goes nowhere near Scotland - Magarathea arrange transit routing to take all calls to any of their complete set of geographic area codes at their switches in the South East.  Makes a bit of a mockery of LES/Tandem/Double Tandem routing, but there is nothing you could not do with these geo numbers that you could do with NGNs.

nick