Hi, I have lost touch a bit as I have been away but cannot find any recent post on this.   The following item appeared on p15 of the Autumn 2007 issue of the National Trust Magazine under "In short" column 2:

"From next February, in response to members' feedback - and OFCOM regulations - the Membership Department is changing from an 0870 number to a cheaper-to-call 0844 number.   This comes into effect from February 2008; look out for the new number in your spring magazine."

Now, obviously, this is totally misleading in my understanding as I thought from Feb 08, 0870 would become like an 01/02 number and 0844 anyway is always charged at a high standard (ie doesn't change with times/days) rate (hence premium).  Also, I hold no brief for OFCOM but to blame their "regulations" is absolutely outrageous, it is the National Trust wanting to continue with scamming its customers that is the real reason behind this change!  (Prior to finding this item, I had been thinking, oh good, their numbers should be included in my call package from Feb!!)

Obviously, I will be contacting them, their magazine editor and membership and anyone else there I can find to protest both about their decision and their misrepresentation of the facts BUT, before I do this, I would appreciate it if someone more knowledgeable than me can confirm that I have my facts correct.   Also, it would be good if as many forum members as possible could bombard the National Trust as it might make them realise that some of us are not so stupid as they think!

My complaint is going to be based on the fact that, 1) from Feb 08, 0870 would become charged as geographical so would not be a premium rate to customers, 2) that 0844 is ALWAYS premium rate to customers so the change will NOT answer members' feedback (ie complaints!) and 3) that they are totally incorrect over OFCOM regulations.

I was also going to pass the details to OFCOM as they may have some views about taking the blame for something which, for once, is not their fault!

I await your comments.

Welcome back

In the database there are lots of geogprahic numbers for the NT, including one for the Membership Dept. This of course shouldn't diminish the rightful anger about what NT are proposing to do.


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Obviously, I will be contacting them, their magazine editor and membership and anyone else there I can find to protest

Please provide email addresses so that others can do the same. Threatening non-renewal of membership would be a good idea to try to influence them into abandoning the proposed change.


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0844 is ALWAYS premium rate

0844 is always premium rate but the price varies and without NT publishing their new 0844 number there is no way of knowing how much it will cost.

Contact management, details are here.

National Trust email addresses appear to be firstname.lastname@nationaltrust.org.uk

So, that piece should have read:

"From next February, in response to a loss of ability to continue ripping members off with a disguised premium rate phone number as a result of OFCOM regulations, the Membership Department is changing from an 0870 number (on which revenue-sharing ceases in February 2008) to a cheaper-to-call 0844 number (well, it'll be cheaper than the 0870 number is now but it'll be more expensive than the 0870 number will be then).   This comes into effect from February 2008; look out for the new number in your spring magazine."

National Trust - isn't that an oxymoron?

Anyone want to hazard a guess at which 0844 rate they'll choose?  My money's (pardon the pun) on 5p//minute at all times.

See also Can you trust the National Trust?

Thanks for the input to all who responded.   Have looked at the old thread and agre fully.  One thing about which I am not certain is the email address format as, on their website, it seems to be "@thenationaltrust.org.uk", I think it is Dave who quoted the format as "firstname.lastname@nationaltrust.org.uk" ie no "the" and their address as given in the magazine for the editor is "magazine@nationaltrust.org.uk" so I will have to try various formats & will post here which ones work.   I am going to start with the Director General and the Editor (as well as OFCOM, maybe they will take an interest as it is their reputation at stake as well - yes, I know what forum members already think of them but these bodies often believe they are really popular!) then move on to the Board of Trustees if I get no proper response & once I have cracked the email format (list on NT website).

As for not renewing our membership, we have just renewed on the basis that we have saved far, far more in admission fees than the membership cost us so feel we are redressing the balace a little.  However, they really annoy me and we have resigned our membership in the past (also this eco warrior nonsense etc).

Barbara wrote on Oct 17^th, 2007 at 8:36am:

Thanks for the input to all who responded.   Have looked at the old thread and agre fully.  One thing about which I am not certain is the email address format as, on their website, it seems to be "@thenationaltrust.org.uk", I think it is Dave who quoted the format as "firstname.lastname@nationaltrust.org.uk" ie no "the" and their address as given in the magazine for the editor is "magazine@nationaltrust.org.uk" so I will have to try various formats & will post here which ones work.   I am going to start with the Director General and the Editor (as well as OFCOM, maybe they will take an interest as it is their reputation at stake as well - yes, I know what forum members already think of them but these bodies often believe they are really popular!) then move on to the Board of Trustees if I get no proper response & once I have cracked the email format (list on NT website). As for not renewing our membership, we have just renewed on the basis that we have saved far, far more in admission fees than the membership cost us so feel we are redressing the balace a little.  However, they really annoy me and we have resigned our membership in the past (also this eco warrior nonsense etc).

Good on ya' - sorry to say National Trust Scotland also went t0 0844 without notice - let us know how you get on...!

Update as promised.   I sent my email to Fiona Reynolds both with & without "the" & neither was returned as undelivered so I assume either format works.

Secondly, I have received a response from the magazine editor, Sue Herdman, saying she has passed my complaint to the membership department which is fair enough.   However, I also replied that I would like to submit my letter for publication so that ALL readers are aware of the situation.....!   I wonder if they will print it?!  (Think this needs a smiley but couldn't decide which!)

I don't get quite so angry when a good cause like NT does this.  It's a bit sneaky, but not as bad as a commercial business screwing its customers.

NT membership has always been good value, and threatening to resign or not renew is a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

UPDATE.   This afternoon, I had a telephone call from a member of staff in the Customer Care Dept (nothing yet from Fiona Reynolds) who had been passed my email by the magazine editor.  The lady who rang had been briefed by the Head of Customer Care & asked to ring me with "the facts".   Firstly, I was told that when NT had first started with 0870, they had been "caught short" with the number with problems which "were not of (NT's) making and left stranded".   She continued that, financially, they cannot provide the telephone system any other way, they make a very small income from 0870.   She, personally, tries to take a broader view &, out of their 3.5 million members, has had very few complaints about 0870 [this was contradicted by what was in the magazine item and she admitted that some members had complained and resigned their membership when I pressed her re the thread on this forum].  She emphasised people could always write or email (I pointed out they have many older members who are less likely to have email, also people have already paid membership &, possibly, a phone package - why should they pay again to phone or write?)

I asked why they did not make a geo alternative available, giving people a choice, drawing reference to COI guidelines which, while not relevant as such to NT, did indicate that there was strong feeling against ngns.   She stated that they won't make geo alternatives available for "technical reasons" but could not say what these were.  She also cited this as why they were going for 0844, I pointed out that most if not all advatanges were available on a geo no.

Oddly, when I asked about 03 numbers, she said they could not use them as they would have to pay to receive calls but was unable to give me any source for this statement, other than the head of Customer Care's briefing  and that it had "all been investigated at director level.   I really would appreciate comments from those more knowledgeable than I am on this point.

I did point out that it was not unknown for telcoms cos to be "economical with the truth" when trying to get their customers to sign up to particular systems (cf NEG & drs)!   I repeatedly pointed out that the only change happening in Feb 08 (?) was the end to revenue sharing on 0870 which would make a move to 0844 attractive - she believed this not to be the case & again, there were "technical reasons" decided at director level.

Basically, I think this lady had been set up to try & fob me off/pacify me having to rely on what she had been told.   Whether the directors etc really believe what they are saying, don't understand telecoms enough or are just adjusting the number to continue the rip-off from customers is a question which really needs answering.   I did repeatedly refer her to this site, she said she had not looked at it but a colleague had.

After 33 minutes, we had to agree to differ!  I did say I still expected a response from Fiona Reynolds & would be forwarding my complaint to the members of the Board of Trustees.  By the way, I did 1471 and the number which called me was 01793 817858.

I would appreciate any comments anyone has (also ref. to the thread about OFCOM backing down over the changes to 0870) as I really need some clarity on this beore I can proceed any further.

Barbara wrote on Oct 29^th, 2007 at 7:01pm:

Oddly, when I asked about 03 numbers, she said they could not use them as they would have to pay to receive calls but was unable to give me any source for this statement, other than the head of Customer Care's briefing  and that it had "all been investigated at director level.

This is potentially true.

I use the word potentially because it's possible that a teleco may charge a very high monthly line rental and in return offer a limited number of minutes free (ie National Trust don't pay for any incoming calls for the first x minutes per month).

However, in most cases (if not all) I do believe that an incoming call charge will be payable for anyone receiving calls on an 03x number.

The reason for this is because these 03x numbers (like 08x) offer facilities like call routing, call queueing, stats, interactive voice prompts, etc.  These facilities (even basic call routing to an ordinary geographical 01/02 number) has to be paid for somehow and the money made by teleco's for calls to 03x is very little (if at all) so a charge is likely to be levied for calls National Trust (in this example) receive on an 03x.

0844 (well most), 0845, 087x numbers are charged more than 01/02 and 03x numbers and the extra money made may mean that facilities such as call routing is free simply because the extra cost it costs us consumers for the call pays for it.

This all varies depending on the supplier (teleco) that the 03x number is rented from.  For example, some 0845 suppliers actually charge for incoming calls received whereas some don't charge for incoming calls received.


Barbara wrote on Oct 29^th, 2007 at 7:01pm:

I pointed out that most if not all advatanges were available on a geo no.

That is true however this comes at a cost.  Things like PBX's, PBX maintenance, etc can cost a lot of money.

Barbara wrote on Oct 29^th, 2007 at 7:01pm:

UPDATE.   This afternoon, I had a telephone call from a member of staff in the Customer Care Dept (nothing yet from Fiona Reynolds) who had been passed my email by the magazine editor.

Perhaps you could ask about those NT members who live overseas who will fnd it difficult or expensive to contact the membership department if it persists with NGNs. I am sure there are plenty of NT members who live outside the UK, although I am myself not one of them.

I find it difficult to take any UK organization seriously when it offers, as the only means of contact, a number that begins 07, 08 or 09, and I include 0800 and 0808 in this statement.  The exclusive use of such numbers demonstrates how the organization feels about me as either a customer or potential customer.

UK customer service has plummeted since I left Treasure Island.

I'm visiting briefly in December, and I expect to see billboards, newspapers, magazines, TV ads plastered with 0844 this and 0870 that.

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I'm visiting briefly in December, and I expect to see billboards, newspapers, magazines, TV ads plastered with 0844 this and 0870 that.

..and I'm sure you will. I did a 'straw poll' of a British computer magazine I receive here in the USA, and about 85% of all advertisers - big and small - were using a 087x/084x number.

Looking at a similar American magazine shows about 95% of all advertisers using a 1-800 number.

Rather says a lot about who really wants me as a customer........  >:(

So, in light of the above comments, do I abandon my complaint?  If not, where do I go from here, bearing in mind I have received no resopnse from OFCOM after approx 10 days?  (It was made quite clear to me that NT deals with a majority or "broader" as they describe it - view even if the stance taken upsets a minority.)

Barbara wrote on Oct 30^th, 2007 at 9:18am:

So, in light of the above comments, do I abandon my complaint?  If not, where do I go from here, bearing in mind I have received no resopnse from OFCOM after approx 10 days?  (It was made quite clear to me that NT deals with a majority or "broader" as they describe it - view even if the stance taken upsets a minority.)

Barbara...The next phase is to go to...http://www.ofcom.org.uk/about/accoun/complaints/ This is how to complain about Ofcom! ::)

Is it worth asking NT how many overseas members they have?

Once they reply, with I assume a pretty reasonable number, then ask them if they think it is fair that they should make it either impossible for them to contact the NT, or if they can have to pay horrendous costs for doing so. The difference in price in this case is huge. On my package I can call Australia, USA and most of Europe of 3p a minute (and I'm sure this is not the best as this is not important to me) but to call an 08xx number from abroad is.....? I think the difference will be in 1000s of percent. I'm sure the experts on here will be able to confirm specific amounts

Hi, Keith.   I don't think they would be bothered by members overseas having problems, it was made quite clear to me that this "broader" view is taken whereby if something upsets a "small" number of their 3.5 million members, that is just unfortunate but they would not change things for the benefit of that "small" number.   The lady who rang me admited she was no expert(!) on telephone issues which were dealt with at director level, she had merely been briefed to respond to my email, indeed she did not even seem over clear on what had been said in the magazine as some of her responses to my questions were contradictory.  [She was, however, outraged that GPs should use 0844 numbers while claiming she was sure profit had not been a motive for NT!!]

My original point was that the NT would have been better to stick with 0870 (I was assuming the OFCOM changes would go ahead) or move to 03 (and it seems the NT might be right it would cost them to receive calls which I accept would not be right for a charity).   Obviously, they could provide a geo equivalent but it was made quite clear to me they will not do that, there being "technical problems" (I think they should say financial!) in doing so.

Hey Barbara,

Whilst I support you in all your hard work here, I have to ask the question, why does any want to telephone the National Trust. If it is for their opening times, that would be found on their web site or hand book. I am not being pedantic but why? :-/

Hi, Sherbert.   It is the number for their membership department & general enquiries so if, for example, they mess up the direct debit on your membership or fail to send membership cards etc in time, or you have a general enquiry about the Trust or membership, you would need to phone them, particularly as you might not want to wait for them to reply to emails (it can take weeks, believe me) or a letter (which would cost the price of a stamp with no guarantee any letter would arrive or elicit a reply).   Yes, the phone nos for the properties etc are in the handbook & are currently mostly geographical so that is not a problem UNLESS, of course, they start to change these to 0844 as well!

Barbara, have you tried the number that you got via 1471 ? 01793 817858.

Does it work?
Where does it take you to?
Is this a result?

Barbara wrote on Oct 30^th, 2007 at 11:33am:

Hi, Sherbert.   It is the number for their membership department & general enquiries so if, for example, they mess up the direct debit on your membership or fail to send membership cards etc in time, or you have a general enquiry about the Trust or membership, you would need to phone them, particularly as you might not want to wait for them to reply to emails (it can take weeks, believe me) or a letter (which would cost the price of a stamp with no guarantee any letter would arrive or elicit a reply).   Yes, the phone nos for the properties etc are in the handbook & are currently mostly geographical so that is not a problem UNLESS, of course, they start to change these to 0844 as well!

Fair enough. ;)

I would just like to mention that if you need to cancel a direct debit and you have internet banking you can do it on line via your bank. However you can't do anything else. I know you probably didn't want to do this but I just thought I would mention this. :)

You could try and find out what the "technical reasons" are she referred to.

If they operate multiple call centres then, although not ideal, they could use an 0845.  They could also use the reasons of call queuing.  Any other reason like in case they move premises is an excuse because I doubt that many companies move premises that often (and outside their current area) to warrant that excuse.

If NT continue using 0870 after February 08 (or whatever date Ofcom state in future) then it's more than likely that they'll have to pay for incoming calls just as if they decided on an 03x.

Thanks for that info, bbb_uk.   I was told that they had centralised their membership dept at Heelis (from where I was called) so the multiple call centre bit would not apply.  I think the person who rang me did so in good faith but had been briefed with a very selective version of the facts.   From your point about them being charged for calls to 0870 in the future, that is evn more proof that the ONLY reason for changing to 0844 is their own financial gain!   I have still not heard from Fiona Reynolds, despite making clear during the phone call that I expected a reply from her.  I think the time is approaching when I must approach members of the Board of Trustees will the explicit accusation that the change is PURELY for financial gain by the NT at the expense of members who have already paid a fairly considerable membership fee.