SAYNOTO0870.COM
https://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi
Main Forum >> Geographical Numbers Chat >> Letter to my MP
https://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1204834887

Message started by BenDToy on Mar 6th, 2008 at 8:21pm

Title: Letter to my MP
Post by BenDToy on Mar 6th, 2008 at 8:21pm
I have written to my MP, George Osborne the Shadow Chancellor, and raised the matter with him. I realise the futility of this exercise but I felt I had to do something positive. For those who are interested, the content of my letter is below. I am aware that there may be inaccuracies and oversights in there, but in the absence of any sort of guidance on what to write, I decided just to "wing it". Please feel free to comment constructively but what is done is done!!

"Once again I find myself raising the issue of the scandal that is
087/084 telephone numbers. The on-going and increasing confusion over
what these numbers are, how they are controlled and how much they cost,
continues unabated, with a not entirely unexpected delay by Ofcom in
implementing their well publicised (if totally ineffective) changes
which were due to happen on 1 February.

We now have a plethora of numbers including 0870, 0871, 0872, 0844,
0845, 0344 et al. The cost of calling many of them is well hidden
within the next set of digits and the intention seems to be to preserve
and even extend the public confusion and obfuscation which ensures that
the gravy train rolls on for the people who provide, and receive calls
to, these numbers.

In addition there is the acceptance of companies describing these
variously as "Lo Call", "Local Rate", "National Rate" despite the fact
that for the vast majority of people the terms local and national call
rates have been virtually obsolete for almost 4 years. Many companies
claim that, for example 0870 is a "national rate" call at typically
8p/min, and an 0845 is a "local rate call" at around 3p/min. For
comparison purposes, a call to the US typically costs me around 3p/min,
and UK landline calls can cost as little as 5p for an hour, or even
free on many call packages. There is absolutely no benefit to the
caller from the use of these numbers.

The regulatory bodies seem happy to turn a blind eye to this widespread
practice. Even the Yellow Pages describes 0845 as "Local Rate" on
almost every page, and this is blatantly inaccurate. It has actually
reached the stage that many companies are going to extreme lengths to
prevent their customers from calling them on geographical (01 or 02)
numbers, in order to protect the income which is generated by these
numbers. As examples I am happy to quote Sky TV and the Alliance &
Leicester Building Society.

I believe that it is time that Ofcom performed their duty to protect
the public from this practice, as they have clearly failed to do so at
the expense of the public, and especially the most vulnerable members.

I call on you to raise this matter at the highest level, to eliminate
the problem, including such practices as covert revenue sharing on
non-regulated numbers (eg 0870/0845), call queuing on revenue sharing
mumbers, and of misleading or non existent call cost declarations and
descriptions. There are so many variations in existence that I would
challenge anyone to understand how much their call is costing, and most
people are astounded when it is explained to them.

For more information on this subject, I would urge you to refer to the
web site www.saynoto0870.com which will really open your eyes to what
is going on."

Title: Re: Letter to my MP
Post by NGMsGhost on Mar 6th, 2008 at 8:42pm
Excellent letter showing a very full understanding indeed of the topic.  Only point I might also have added was about inclusive call packages such as BT Option 3 that now only cost a fiver a month or so and these 084/7 calls being totally excluded from this.  Hence this leads to the average household paying around £25 to £50 a quarter or £100 to £200 per annum extra for calls that should have been covered by their so called all landline calls packages.

Also please forgive me for pointing this out but Alliance & Leicester is not a Building Society but the UK's seventh largest bank.  See www.alliance-leicester-group.co.uk/html/general/general_index.asp

If you want a proper Building Society that uses direct geographic phone numbers on which you can reach all its branches, not to mention having a debit card and credit card free of iniquitous 2.75% foreign exchange rate levies and £3 minimum cash machine fees then move to www.nationwide.co.uk

If you really want to do something about Ofcom's abuses then write to your MP saying you are scandalised about Ofcom reneging on its commitment on 0870 numbers on 1st Feb 2008, also about Ofcom failing to ensure telcos understand 03 numbers are charged at geographic rates and about Ofcom doing nothing to prevent major telcos like Post Office Homephone from still lieing on every bill that 0845 and 0870 numbers are Lo-Call and National Rate.  Also PostOffice Homephone defends its actions on the basis that this is what its competitors are also allowed to do (by Ofcom)!

What you actually need to do is write to Ed Richards CEO of Ofcom on all these points only to receive some bland platitude fob off letter in response to your concerns.  Then write back and say you are wholly dissatisfied with his reply and receive a further fob off letter back hopefully in final deadlock.  At that stage go to your MP and say you have reached deadlock with Ofcom and want him to refer the matter to the Parliamentary & Health Service Ombudsman for investigation because you believe Ofcom is not fulfilling its principal duties to UK citizens and Uk consumers to ensure competition etc under Section 3(i) of the Communications Act 2003 (see www.ofcom.org.uk/about/sdrp/).  Say to your MP you have written to Ofcom about this, Ofcom have failed to take your complaint seriously or resolve the matter and hence you want the Parliamentary Ombudsman to investigate.  That is the only way any of us here are going to ever seriously hurt Ofcom and its fat cats and dissuade it from its intended course of action of legalising every major telecoms and broadcasting scam in the UK.

See www.ombudsman.org.uk/make_a_complaint/parliamentary/index.html

Title: Re: Letter to my MP
Post by BenDToy on Mar 6th, 2008 at 8:55pm
Thanks NGMsGhost. Helpful and simple advice for me (and others please!!) to follow. For info, I do not deal with either A&L or Sky and I already have a Nationwide Visa card for overseas spends (of which I have a lot!). Greatly appreciated.

Title: Re: Letter to my MP
Post by Keith on Mar 7th, 2008 at 10:02am
Just wanted to say Ben - An excellent letter and I had nothing to add, but then saw NGMNGhost's reply and fully agree with everything he has said also.

Well done - keep at it.

For what it is worth I have a number of formal complaints running with a number of organisations on their NGNs which I will report on in due course.

Title: Re: Letter to my MP
Post by Dave on Mar 7th, 2008 at 10:39am
It's nice and concise, easy to read.

A couple of other points which you might like to consider is that a number of consultations have been put out by Oftel/Ofcom since 2003 and that "NTS A way forward" received over 1,100 public responses in 2005.

Title: Re: Letter to my MP
Post by NGMsGhost on Mar 7th, 2008 at 12:50pm

Dave wrote on Mar 7th, 2008 at 10:39am:
"NTS A way forward" received over 1,100 public responses in 2005.

Also ICSTIS's (now PhonePayPlus's) recent summer 2007 0871 consultation on its proposals to basically allow continued unmitigated continued ripping off of the public with no call price pre announcement and no limit on the length of the call queue produced over 600 responses from the public which were then totally ignored by PhonePayPlus which simply carried on regardless with its original plan.

See www.phonepayplus.org.uk/pdfs_consult/0871_services.pdf

I see they have conveniently now deleted the 600 external responses from their website even though they continue to show responses to consultations where far fewer members of the public expressed a view.

Now I wonder why that is? ;) ::) >:( :'(

Title: Re: Letter to my MP
Post by NGMsGhost on Mar 7th, 2008 at 2:42pm
PhonePayPlus have now provided a link to the 600+ responses from the public to their 0871 consultation.  They tell me that the link to this page from the consultation document area itself was accidentally removed. ;) ::)

You can now find these responses at www.phonepayplus.org.uk/service_providers/responsestoconsultations/0871new.asp

Title: Re: Letter to my MP
Post by cheapphones on Mar 12th, 2008 at 9:20pm
Well done for your letter and may a wish you luck on your quest! 01506 421884 is still live for sky... this number was answered immediately though as others have said, a 2 minute call to cancel movies off our account still managed to take half an hour by being put on hold 4 times!

Title: Re: Letter to my MP
Post by NGMsGhost on Mar 13th, 2008 at 1:28am

cheapphones wrote on Mar 12th, 2008 at 9:20pm:
a 2 minute call to cancel movies off our account still managed to take half an hour by being put on hold 4 times!


I suppose I should post the 0870 number for Sky Month by Month subscribers.  As Month by Month is specifically sold to the credit unworthy with only a one month commitment Sky actively expect people to cancel this product and if you make a call to Sky to discontinue on the dedicated Month by Month subscriber line Sky staff never make any efforts to stonewall or dissuade you from cancelling.

Title: Re: Letter to my MP
Post by Ronnie on Mar 16th, 2008 at 6:54am
What a great letter. I would be interested in your comments on the reply.

I wrote to my MP in April last year and part of his reply stated that the first few digits of a UK telephone number gives a broad indication to the caller of the type of service and/or cost of call with 0870/0871 being the most expensive 0844/45 in the middle and 0800 Freephone.

This is clearly not the case now. The pricing for 0870 and 0845 is now transparent and easy to understand..........
http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayTopic.do?topicId=17340  

Therefore most 0870 numbers are cheaper than 0844 numbers.

Sky have seen this loophole and are exploiting it. First they ensure that most customers cannot get through on most 01506 numbers. Secondly they are now advising customers that the 0870 will be withdrawn shortly and the 0844 number will be the only one available. Why? Because they can get much more revenue using the 0844 number than the 0870 number and more importantly the average man in the street thinks he is getting a cheaper call!

Looks like I need to send my MP another letter!

SAYNOTO0870.COM » Powered by YaBB 2.5.2!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2024. All Rights Reserved.