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Main Forum >> Geographical Numbers Chat >> Ofcom investigates information about NTS Charges https://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1206067246 Message started by SilentCallsVictim on Mar 21st, 2008 at 2:40am |
Title: Ofcom investigates information about NTS Charges Post by SilentCallsVictim on Mar 21st, 2008 at 2:40am
Ofcom has announced an investigation into telcos compliance with the obligation to maintain and comply with a Code of Practice regarding publication of charges for calling 08xx numbers
Links The investigation is announced here. The relevant regulations are published here (Conditions 14.2 and 14.3 are on page 29 / 76, Annex 2 starts on page 36 / 76). Summary This regulation covers only OCPs - those who one uses to make the call. It does not affect companies who use these numbers - Ofcom has no power over how they advise callers of the cost of calling them, or how much they earn from each call. Ofcom does have powers over providers of "premium rate services", but it subcontracts those powers for self-regulation by Phonepay Plus. The duties of OCPs in respect of PRS numbers are also covered by these conditions and the investigation. (N.B. 0871 is not yet classified as PRS). For telcos who comply with the regulations it should be a very simple matter for any customer to find out the cost of calling any NTS number - in the words of Ofcom: Quote:
I am sure that Ofcom would be keen to hear of any cases where obtaining this information is not straightforward. Initially it may be of interest to test compliance with General Condition 14.3 which states: Quote:
Contact information The case leader is: Michael Love (020 7981 3966 e-mail: michael.love@ofcom.org.uk) It will be interesting to know if members find any reason to contact Mr Love. It will also be interesting to know of the response. |
Title: Re: Ofcom investigates information about NTS Charg Post by oldharryrocks on Mar 21st, 2008 at 2:52am
I had cause to look at the euphony site recently http://www.euphony.co.uk/ and could find no mention of their Nts/Prs charges.
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Title: Re: Ofcom investigates information about NTS Charg Post by Dave on Mar 21st, 2008 at 8:04am
These regulations which require telcos to give information on the costs of calling NTS numbers were brought in following the consultation Providing citizens and consumers with improved information about Number Translation Services and Premium Rate Services. The consultation closed in December 2006 and received over 100 public responses which are discussed here.
Discussion on whether telcos complied with the new rules is here. |
Title: Re: Ofcom investigates information about NTS Charg Post by SilentCallsVictim on Mar 21st, 2008 at 1:32pm Dave wrote on Mar 21st, 2008 at 8:04am:
A very useful reference back to a thread which I had not spotted. Unless much has changed, I suspect that Mr Love will be very busy. |
Title: Re: Ofcom investigates information about NTS Charg Post by Dave on Apr 9th, 2008 at 10:38am
An update note to this investigation has been published:
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/bulletins/comp_bull_index/comp_bull_ocases/open_all/cw_980/ Quote:
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Title: Re: Ofcom investigates information about NTS Charg Post by NGMsGhost on Apr 9th, 2008 at 2:40pm
It seems as though it isn't really much good tackling the issue of the deliberate hiding of the pence per minute rate by OCPs without also tackling the issue of deliberately describing 0845 and 0870 as Local Rate/Lo-Call and National Call/National Rate on phone bills at the same time.
I have therefore sent the following email to Mr Love at Ofcom:- Quote:
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Title: Re: Ofcom investigates information about NTS Charg Post by Dave on Apr 9th, 2008 at 4:16pm NGMsGhost wrote on Apr 9th, 2008 at 2:40pm:
It is not just OCPs. TCPs do the same. |
Title: Re: Ofcom investigates information about NTS Charg Post by NGMsGhost on Apr 9th, 2008 at 4:36pm Dave wrote on Apr 9th, 2008 at 4:16pm:
Yes but Ofcom maintain they have no jurisdiction over TCPs and more of TCPs activities are caught by ASA rules in any case. Whereas with OCPs neither their price lists or their phone bills seem to be governed by the ASA. That leaves only Ofcom, who have a far more stringent duty to control the activities of the OCPs. Also this investigation is only about the activities of the OCPs. |
Title: Re: Ofcom investigates information about NTS Charg Post by bbb_uk on Sep 18th, 2008 at 9:48am
Well as always Ofcom is allowing OCPs to get away with not displaying NTS call charges in an easy-to-find and prominent location on their website for another 3 months.
General Condition 14.2 has been in existence for more than 2 years and because OCPs dont really want their customers to know how much calls to NTS numbers are a few either don't display them or hide them on their website which is opposite of what GC14.2 was created for. See Ofcom's further announcement here. |
Title: Re: Ofcom investigates information about NTS Charg Post by NGMsGhost on Sep 18th, 2008 at 10:12am Quote:
And what would happen if I asked the Police for another 3 months to respond to one of their Notices of Intended Prosecution for Speeding. Would they just give it to me in order to be nice to me? No of course they wouldn't. Instead they would prosecute me for failing to identify the driver. This is an offence that carries double the number of penalty points. But Ofcom just doesn't seem to understand about severe penalties being an effective way to encourage their old mates in the telcos to actually get on and do things! |
Title: Re: Ofcom investigates information about NTS Charg Post by bbb_uk on Sep 18th, 2008 at 10:25am
How can OfcoN still claim to be independent when they allow OCPs to get away with this for more than 2 years?
If I had the money I'd challenge just how "independent" OfcoN are. What can take so long it requires more than 2 years? OCPs were warned in April 2006 about this and were given until 19th August 2006 to comply. Now over 2 years later are we any closer? Has OfcoN threatened to fine any OCPs still not complying? Probably not - instead just say something like yea, no prob take as long as you need. Is three extra months long enough? If not, we'll just extend the deadline again and again. Don't worry we're on your side! ;) :D |
Title: Re: Ofcom investigates information about NTS Charg Post by NGMsGhost on Sep 18th, 2008 at 10:58am bbb_uk wrote on Sep 18th, 2008 at 10:25am:
bbb, Congratulations on your excellent and concise summary on precisely how Ofcom operates in these matters. |
Title: Re: Ofcom investigates information about NTS Charg Post by NGMsGhost on Sep 18th, 2008 at 11:30am
I just telephoned and spoke to Michael Love to suggest that this further extension was quite outrageous and that they should be fining these companies and increasing the fine for every single week they do not comply instead of just granting them further extensions as a reward for their deliberate procrastination.
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Title: Re: Ofcom investigates information about NTS Charg Post by Dave on Sep 18th, 2008 at 1:56pm
Which telcos does Ofcom consider have not complied with General Condition 14.2? Why doesn't it name them? In any other investigation it would publish the telcos' names.
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Title: Re: Ofcom investigates information about NTS Charg Post by NGMsGhost on Sep 18th, 2008 at 1:59pm Dave wrote on Sep 18th, 2008 at 1:56pm:
Yes but here there is far more money at stake and the companies involved are some of the largest in the industry and so are able to exert the most unethical behind the scenes influence with their board level contacts at Ofcom. ;) |
Title: Re: Ofcom investigates information about NTS Charg Post by bbb_uk on Sep 18th, 2008 at 3:29pm
If I thought it would make a difference then I'd go through the most common OCPs websites and highlight which ones don't comply fully but I dont believe for one minute Ofcom care or would do anything because lets face it if they really wanted to do something then they would have enforced this earlier instead of letting it drag to well over 2 years since OCPs were first warned.
I have seriously lost all hope in Ofcom Does anyone know if Oftel were as bad as Ofcom are now? |
Title: Re: Ofcom investigates information about NTS Charg Post by Tanllan on Sep 18th, 2008 at 6:38pm bbb_uk wrote on Sep 18th, 2008 at 3:29pm:
Yes I do and no they were not. |
Title: Re: Ofcom investigates information about NTS Charg Post by dorf on Sep 18th, 2008 at 8:49pm
Agreed Tanllan, Oftel were bad enough, but they were nothing like as deceitful and devious as Ofcom!
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Title: Re: Ofcom investigates information about NTS Charg Post by bbb_uk on Dec 19th, 2008 at 2:23am bbb_uk wrote on Sep 18th, 2008 at 9:48am:
What are the chances that all OCP's now fully comply with GC14.2? As OCPs have been aware of GC14.2 since April 2006 will OfcoN now finally start actually offically enforcing GC14.2, for those that may not fully comply, instead of letting them get away with it for as long as they have? Answers on a post card to: OfcoN, not-so-independent-as-it-claims regulator, Riverside House...., or alternatively, ring them on local-rate 090 number lol ;) The open-case (but as yet not updated) can be found here. Originally discussed in this thread. |
Title: Re: Ofcom investigates information about NTS Charg Post by SilentCallsVictim on Dec 19th, 2008 at 6:16am bbb_uk wrote on Dec 19th, 2008 at 2:23am:
Mr Love needs a reminder to extend the duration of the extension - just a bit of admin! The barely effective Silent Calls investigation was extended for another six months last Tuesday - for the fifth time! With very few working days left we should now be getting very excited about the fact that "Ofcom aims to publish a further statement on implementing any changes to 0870 policy by the end of the year" as reported here. This could have been the fiscal "year". Alternatively as the reference was to "any" changes, rather than a modified version of those which have been in the course of happening for a long time now, it could be that no announcement will mean that there will be no changes after all. |
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