Useful Information & Say no to 0870! Hot Topics » Hall of Fame - Charity and private sector

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For "Hall of Shame", refer to this page.

This page is for charities and private sector organisations only. Public sector bodies are listed on this page.

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Hall of Fame - Charity & Non-Profit Making

Those using 03xx numbers

Hyperlinks for these organisations go to the relevant page on their website giving their telephone number.

Accord Housing Association 0300 111 7000
Angleman Syndrome Support Education & Research Trust (ASSERT) 0300 999 0102
Anthony Nolan Trust 0303 303 0303
BBC Children in Need 03457 33 22 33
Black and Minority Ethnic Community Partnership (BMECP) 0300 303 1171
Brighton Museum & Art Gallery 03000 290 900
British Canoe Union 0300 011 9500
British Heart Foundation - Heart Helpline 0300 330 3311
Broken Rainbow 0300 999 5428
B-with-us 0300 123 2200 Housing service for Pennine Lancashire
Cats Protection 03000 12 12 12
Comic Relief - Red Nose Day Donations 03457 910 910
Cynon Tâf Community Housing Group 0345 260 2633
Disabled Parents Network 0300 3300 639
Disasters Emergency Committee (DEC) Donations 0370 60 60 900
Families Need Fathers 0300 0300 110/363
GIST Support UK 0300 400 0000
Institute of Broadcast Sound (IBS) 0300 400 8427
Islamic Aid 0300 111 3001
Midland Heart 0345 60 20 540
National Breastfeeding Network 0300 100 021x
National Childbirth Trust (NCT) 0300 330 0770 Uses 0844 numbers for other purposes
National Coastwatch Institution (NCI) 0300 111 1202
National Stalking Helpline 0300 636 0300
One Vision Housing 0300 365 1111 Manages former Sefton Council Houses
Orbit Heart of England Housing Association 0345 8 500 500
Oxfam GB 0300 200 xxxx
Pilgrim Homes 0300 303 1400
Regenda First (housing association) 0344 736 0066
Relate 0300 100 1234
RNIB 0303 123 9999
Royal Blind 0300 321 0300
Royal College of Nursing (RCN) 0345 772 6100
RSABI Gatepost helpline 0300 111 4166
RSPCA 0300 1234 999
Scottish SPCA 03000 999 999
Shaw Trust 0300 30 33 120
Shelter 0344 515 2000
South Gloucestershire Leisure Centres 0300 333 0300
Southern Housing Group 0300 303 1771
Stroke Association 0303 3033 100
UK Narcotics Anonymous 0300 999 12 12
UNICEF Soccer Aid 2010 0330 123 1966
Walsall Housing Group 0300 555 6666
Will Aid 0300 0300 013

Hall of Fame - Private Sector

Those using 03xx numbers

Hyperlinks for these organisations go to the relevant page on their website giving their telephone number.

Absolute Radio 0330 123 1215
Andrews & Arnold (AAISP) 03333 400 000
A-Plant (Ashtead Plant Hire Co Ltd) 0370 050 0797
AquaPoint Ltd 03700 555 333
Avantek Computer Ltd 0330 300 3000
Avon Cosmetics 0333 2345678
Blackmore IT 0330 1000 318
Bid Food (Formally 3663) Contact numbers now 0370 3663 xxx
Brighter Connections 03707 551515
BT Residential Customer Services 0330 1234 150 Same as dialling 150 from a BT line or 0800 800150
BT Broadband 150 (From a BT Landline/Mobile) or 0330 1234 150
Contour Housing 0345 602 1120
Digital Region Ltd 0333 240 0107 Given at roadside digs; was 0845 number
Easyspace 0370 755 5088 (and also other companies in the IO Mart Gp)
Face Media Group 0333 8000 888
G Fulford & Co 0300 3000 123
Free Radio Shropshire (Formally Beacon Radio Shropshire) 0330 66 00 964
Garden Sheds and Furniture.com 0333 577 1926
Groupama Healthcare 0333 633 9001
Guardian Offers Suppliers 0330 333 6xxx
Homesafe Group 0333 456 0011
Housing 21 0845 numbers are now 0345 and 0870 are now 0370
Inweb Networks All 0870 numbers are now 0370
LeadBay 0333 666 9000
Legal & General 0870 numbers changed to 0370 numbers
Maltbury Staging 0333 800 8881
Metro Bank 0345 08 08 500
North East Chamber of Commerce 0300 303 6322
One Housing Group 0300 123 9966
One Transport 0345 155 0801
Pioneer 0330 123 1240
Richer Sounds All branches have their own 0333 number
Quality Company 0300 303 1286
Rehab4Life 0330 999 9999
Samsung 0330 SAMSUNG (0330 7267864)
ScooterMan 0333 666 1999
Shoosmiths Solicitors All 0870 numbers swapped for equivalent 0370 numbers
Solar Radio 0330 660 0129
TrekAmerica 0333 999 7951
Wonderful Foundation 0300 321 3000
Worcester Bosch 0330 123 9339

Those who have abandoned 084x/087x numbers in favour of 01/02 or freephone

Discussion threads contain links to minutes of meetings and other relevant pages showing the change of telephone number.

Alan Boswell Group
Asda - Used to use 0844 numbers for Asda Direct, Home Shopping as well as its "Service Team" and these all now have 0800 numbers.
Aston Villa Football Club - Ticket office and some other departments are freephone numbers; all others are 0121 numbers. It used to use 0871 (see entries in our database).
Bennetts Retail Ltd (Bennetts Electrical) Head office, online orders and stores all have freephone numbers.
Bradford City FC [url=http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1197894703]Discussion here[/url]
Caravan Guard publishes both 0800 and 01422 numbers
FindMyPast.com [url=http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1163376219/7#7]Discussion here[/url] Message posted on Say No To 0870 from Head of Marketing.
Nutrition Assocates [url=http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1182436234]Discussion here[/url] Reverted to 01 after being made aware that 0845 is not "local rate".
Oldham Community Leisure [url=http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1181308134]Discussion here[/url]changed from 0161 to 0844 and described them as "local rate". Following my email pointing out that this is incorrect, they have now said that they are going to change back to 0161 numbers.
Quiet PC UK
Reel Cinemas has changed its central automated booking line for use across all its branches from 0870 801 0870 to 01509 221155.
Wintercorn Internet Consulting [url=http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1197920087]Discussion here[/url] Switched from 0870 to freephone, including support.

Others

Flightline publishes both 0800 and 01702 numbers

Otelo appears to be changing from 0845 to 0330 numbers. Ofqual is similarly advertising 0300 numbers.

Just to confirm Dave's comment re Oxfam - we have now got the 0300 numbers live, and the main three are in the unverified number section. Further numbers will be published on our website soon.

Man_at_Oxfam, welcome to the site and thanks for adding those details to the database. We look forward it these numbers being officially published on the Oxfam website :).

Man_at_Oxfam wrote on Apr 30^th, 2008 at 10:58pm:

Just to confirm Dave's comment re Oxfam - we have now got the 0300 numbers live, and the main three are in the unverified number section. Further numbers will be published on our website soon.

Thanks for that. I have verified them.

There is also an entry for Oxfam Cymru of which there is a 029 alternative. If it is to change to 03, I will be happy to amend that entry.

Thanks for the welcome  :)

I will add the Oxfam Cymru number now.
Apols for the piecemeal approach - this is all hot off the presses!

No need to worry about the piecemeal approach - it is much appreciated that you are providing them to us first anyway :). Now, just make sure to get them publicised every else too  8-).

Man_at_Oxfam wrote on May 1^st, 2008 at 1:21pm:

I will add the Oxfam Cymru number now. Apols for the piecemeal approach - this is all hot off the presses!

Many thanks for this, I have amended the Cymru entry.

I am glad that some people have indeed started using the 03xx numbers. Having a bored afternoon earlier in the week, I went for a browse round the Ofcom site and noted that it was over a year since the great press splurge about "stopping the 0870 rip off and 03xx numbers were happening", or something like that. And then got mighty annoyed on having to ring a couple of Government departments on 0845 and 0870 revenue sharing numbers.

So I used www.writetothem.com to ask my MP if the Minister can tell him how many government departments are actually using 030x numbers. Still awaiting a reply, I'll relay it here if I get one! It will be interesting to see what excuses they can come up with this time! Anyone want to open a book on "customer convenience"?

Brighter Connections are an "IT agent" company based in Huddersfield. Up until recently (I'm not sure how recently), they had been using 0870 numbers. I only recently discovered (I saw a pen of theirs at work) that they have now switched to 0370 numbers (which have the same last 7 digits as their old 0870 numbers obviously). Thumbs up to Brighter Connections!

The "Hall of fame" has now been updated and lists organisations using 03xx numbers. If anyone knows of others not listed, please let us know.

Could this post be stickied alongside the Hall of shame? Otherwise all people see is the Hall of shame and not the one congratulating the companies that have changed to 03 numbers.

jgxenite wrote on Jul 12^th, 2008 at 1:40pm:

Could this post be stickied alongside the Hall of shame? Otherwise all people see is the Hall of shame and not the one congratulating the companies that have changed to 03 numbers.

That's a possibility and I do think it needs making more prominent. There are a lot of stickies meaning that there's less normal topics shown.

I am sure that I heard Chappers and Dave say on BBC Radio 1 this morning that they have changed their number from 08700 100 100 to 03700 100 100... it could have been my ears playing tricks on me what with it being horrendously early and all.

evilmcwoo wrote on Jul 12^th, 2008 at 2:32pm:

I am sure that I heard Chappers and Dave say on BBC Radio 1 this morning that they have changed their number from 08700 100 100 to 03700 100 100... it could have been my ears playing tricks on me what with it being horrendously early and all.

Yes, it has been discussed that the BBC is in the process of moving from 0870 to 0370.

fan dabby dozee :)

Hall of Fame, great idea! Just wondering if there is a separate 'Hall of Fame' for the few companies that do publish a geographical alternative for their 08xx numbers.

Particular pressure should be applied for Government departments to do this in all cases.

Fusion wrote on Jul 24^th, 2008 at 7:39am:

... publish a geographical alternative for their 08xx numbers. Particular pressure should be applied for Government departments to do this in all cases.

I have to disagree.

There may be a case for publishing a 0845 number as an alternative to a 03xx or geographic number for those who may be able to take advantage of BT's perverse discounting policy whilst it remains in force. There are however questions about whether the cost of doing so is justified and how callers should be advised about which number to call. Inaccurate, out-of-date or incomplete advice would be open to justified criticism.

Where it is fundamentally wrong for taxpayers to be subsidised by fees levied on service users through use of revenue sharing numbers, this is in no way made proper by taxpayers paying for the cost of a geographic alternative.

Where a service benefits from use of features available on non-geographic numbers, it is unacceptable for a cheaper, inferior, "second-class" alternative to be provided.

Private sector companies have a duty to secure the highest prices and lowest costs they can so as to provide profit to their shareholders. It is therefore proper for saynoto0870 to undermine these efforts by publishing alternatives in the interests of their consumers. In the case of public sector organisations the relationships are fundamentally different.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jul 24^th, 2008 at 8:35am:

Where a service benefits from use of features available on non-geographic numbers, it is unacceptable for a cheaper, inferior, "second-class" alternative to be provided.

This is an interesting point.   Whenever I dial the geo alternative as provided on this site I invariably find I am receiving the same welcome messages, placed in a queue with musak or meaningless irritating messages about my call being important to them etc.   It invariably feels like the same queue as all the poor 084/7 pundits are waiting in.   In other words, the company I am calling appear to be getting the same facilities whether I dial 084/7 or a geo number.   Sometimes they appear to be aware that I have used the geo number and not their rip-off number and yet I have been messaged, queued and managed by their system.

So my questions are, and this is not rhetorical, I really want to know: ---

How does this work?  
How is it that dialling the alternative geo number still seems to put the caller through the normal sequence of events before they get to talk to anyone?  
Does the receiving company/organisation get all the same call stats, routing options and information as they get for the 084/7 numbers?

Is there someone in this Forum who works in the industry who can expertly enlighten us?

loddon wrote on Jul 25^th, 2008 at 7:50am:

I really want to know: ---

Good questions; to which I would add ...

How can a public body justify the expense of renting two numbers that deliver the same service?

I have a point to make on this, and I know SCV & I disagree here, but I would still rather have a geo no option to call even if it did mean that my call was not deal with in the same way or even if I received "inferior service" as my priority is not to pay for the call as I have an inclusive package.   However, like loddon, I have never experienced any difference in treatment, indeed since I have used geo nos from this site as alternatives, I generally find that I get through quicker than on the NGN.  The publication of geo alternatives gives me a choice, particularly when I have no choice of provider (eg local authorities, govt departments).   Obviously, the best alternative is for them all to move to 03 or return to geo nos; I would rather get an engaged tone & have to call back than be in a queue on an NGN.  As for teh cost of renting two numbers, is this actually the case as I understood that NGNs generally/frequently have underlying geo numbers anyway?

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jul 25^th, 2008 at 8:08am:

loddon wrote on Jul 25th, 2008 at 7:50am: I really want to know: --- Good questions; to which I would add ... How can a public body justify the expense of renting two numbers that deliver the same service?

As Barbara also says below; - "As for the cost of renting two numbers, is this actually the case as I understood that NGNs generally/frequently have underlying geo numbers anyway?"

I have an 0870 & an 0844 number, plus of course my geo number, which is the underlying number for the NGNs, I pay no rent of any description to the 2 NGNs,(nor did I pay any set up fees), and receive payment when anyone calls them,(banks,building societies Government departments, etc).

There may not be as much disagreement as is suggested.

If a geographic and non-geographic number give access to the same service, what is the justification for a public body incurring cost and creating confusion for some by renting and publishing the non-geographic number?

If there is no cost and the only purpose is to save money for taxpayers by getting a subsidy from service users, then is it morally right to "steal money from taxpayers" by publishing alternatives?

Publishing alternatives on saynoto0870 must have the objective of undermining unnecessary use of non-geographic numbers by the public sector, so as to cause them to be withdrawn. Except in highly controlled and special circumstances, it is not sufficient for a service provider to simply publish alternatives.

I do fundamentally disagree with the idea that those who can afford to pay more should have access to a higher standard of public sector services. In the private sector the situation is quite different; consumer choice based on price is fully acceptable and is the basis for competitive markets.

loddon wrote on Jul 25^th, 2008 at 7:50am:

… Whenever I dial the geo alternative as provided on this site I invariably find I am receiving the same welcome messages, placed in a queue with musak or meaningless irritating messages about my call being important to them etc.   It invariably feels like the same queue as all the poor 084/7 pundits are waiting in. …

It has become apparent to me that those GP surgery numbers which we do have seem to work in that way. I refer to those which are likely to be NEG's Surgery Line, that's those on 0844 477 numbers.

When calling the 0844 numbers, they generally answer with a message "Welcome to such and such a surgery." and then go to hold music (or secondary ringing tone). After about 5 seconds it then says "You are now connected to such and such a surgery" followed by menu options.

When you call the underlying geographical number it answers with "You are now connected to such and such a surgery" followed by menu options. In some cases I know that these numbers are definately part of DDI blocks as others in the range were submitted and I changed the last digit to a 0 to find the general "Surgery Line" number.

This suggests that IVR is based at the surgery. Some other DDI numbers have the answering service "IP Office".

So does this mean that the 0844 numbers are just a front to generate revenue from the caller as well as charging them straight after dialling the last digit - ie no ringing tone?  :-?

Pioneer now has a 0330 number for customer relations.

G Fulford & Co structural engineers of Gloucester must be commended for going to 0330 3000 123. From what I can gather, they have moved and have decided to go with a non-geographical number at the new location.

See Yell.com listing.

:) Greenbee.com (Services selected by the John Lewis Partnership) on their contact pages give 01/02 alternative numbers for their 0800 & 0845 numbers.

See; http://www.greenbee.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10051&categoryId=348

Also give this explanation: Calls to 0800 numbers are free from BT landlines and calls to 0845 numbers are charged at local rates. Charges may vary if you call 0800 or 0845 numbers from your mobile phone.

If you would like to use an alternative to 0845 or 0800 numbers, see our alternative numbers.
>  Alternative numbers

:(Not 100% correct though!

Plusnet, an ISP owned by BT, used to publish their geographic numbers alongside their 0845 numbers. They also used to occasionally boast about having geo numbers as being an advantage to customers. Looks like they've changed their minds. The geo numbers have gone from the home page and everywhere I've looked too.

http://www.plus.net/

Their new broadband packages are in some ways not as good as their old ones though for some the basic £5.99/month (depends on where you live) could be attractive. Shame it's on an 18 month contract.

allegro wrote on Feb 25^th, 2009 at 5:19pm:

Plusnet, an ISP owned by BT, used to publish their geographic numbers alongside their 0845 numbers...

Checking their main support page, the 0114 numbers are listed alongside the 0845 numbers - http://www.plus.net/support/index.shtml

Agreed, it is still on that page. Used to be almost everywhere on their website. I wonder if this is a change in policy (related to BT giving free calls to 0845?) or simply an oversight during a revamp of their website.

I'm guessing they just thought there wasn't much point having it all over the website, as anyone who needed to contact them for support would check the support page anyway.

jgxenite wrote on Feb 26^th, 2009 at 9:46am:

I'm guessing they just thought there wasn't much point having it all over the website, as anyone who needed to contact them for support would check the support page anyway.

You are perhaps being generous.

Let us keep a watch out for increased promotion of 0845 numbers as "free from BT - no alternative required". This is a very competitive market and BT will have to work very hard to counter the criticism it will get when its 1 April price rises come into effect.

Looks like it's a bit more subtle. See this thread on thinkbroadband (I am ppppenguin99 in that forum)  http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/showflat.php?Board=plusnet&Number=3582269&vc=1 and this page on Plusnet http://community.plus.net/blog/2008/11/25/the-plusnet-csc-telephone-system/ Plusnet clearly acknowledge the benefit of geo but claim to have routing requirements that need non-geo. They are thinking about an 03xx solution.

Another company for The Hall of Shame.

Travelbag , have changed from an 0870 number to a 0871.

From their website.  Call us for free on 0871 etc  :o

jimjim wrote on Mar 21^st, 2009 at 8:06am:

Another company for The Hall of Shame. Travelbag , have changed from an 0870 number to a 0871. From their website.  Call us for free on 0871 etc  :o

From their site on the front page ; - http://www.travelbag.co.uk/

"Calls to 0871 numbers will cost up to 10p per minute. Other providers and mobile rates may vary, please check your contract for prices."

Not correct, but doesn't say "free"

However on the page I think you are quoting from, http://www.travelbag.co.uk/ContactUs/index.html , it also has the international number that you can call at geo rates, "+44 (0) 203 139 7427 from outside the UK."

A tribute to Reel Cinemas that it has changed its one automated booking line for use across all its branches from 0870 801 0870 to 01509 221155. Odeon, Vue and others should sit up and take note.

Philips Electronics UK has now dumped its 0870 900 9070 number in favour of 0800 331 6015. More details at www.philips.co.uk/support

Quote:

it also has the international number that you can call at geo rates, "+44 (0) 203 139 7427 from outside the UK."

That number is likely more readily recognised as:    (020)    3139   7424.       :)                                   [ +44   20   3139   7424 ]

Richer Sounds, a national chain of Hi-Fi shops now has 0333 numbers for all its branches, as well as its main customer service helpline.

On each store's page, below its 0333 number, it states:


Quote:

03 NUMBERS ARE NOT PREMIUM RATE NUMBERS! 03 numbers connect you directly to the store you call and are charged at the same rate as you are charged for numbers starting 01 and 02. If the store is very busy you may be transferred to our central support team at no additional charge. 03 numbers are included in all bundle rates for mobile phones and landlines.

Dave wrote on Oct 9^th, 2009 at 10:56am:

Richer Sounds, a national chain of Hi-Fi shops now has 0333 numbers for all its branches, as well as its main customer service helpline. On each store's page, below its 0333 number, it states: Quote: 03 NUMBERS ARE NOT PREMIUM RATE NUMBERS! 03 numbers connect you directly to the store you call and are charged at the same rate as you are charged for numbers starting 01 and 02. If the store is very busy you may be transferred to our central support team at no additional charge. 03 numbers are included in all bundle rates for mobile phones and landlines.

I do hope that this had something to do with this thread on MSE.COM re posts #14,22,23,24,25.

My last comment on  reply #25 was :- "Best solution to confirm an ethical company? Ditch the 0845! If you receive no benefit from it? then stop your telco receiving the benefit and use a geo number!"

Well done to 3663 First for Foodservice for changing its 0870 3663 xxx numbers for 0370 3663 xxx.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Aston Villa FC has 0800 numbers for its ticket office and some other departments. All other numbers are 0121 geographicals.

Previously, it had 0871 numbers for switchboard and the ticket office, as the two entries in our database show.

Had occasion to need to contact Samsung about a fridge/freezer this morning and found that they publicise their 0845 SAMSUNG (0845 7267864) number the most but, refreshingly, the following is on their website:


Quote:

If you need to call us from overseas, or prefer not to use 0845 SAMSUNG (7267864), you can call +44 (0)1932 454358.   Call costs vary - please contact your provider for details.

Can they be added to post #2 ('Reply #1') please (the number's already in the database).

To Dave, and some of the others who's names I cannot remember... I must commend ANY provider who has either a Geographic (01/02) number or a new 03 number as apposed to the gastly 08 numbers.

I used to work for Richer Sounds (RS) and I am aware they moved their CS Department to new premises, which could co-inside with the move to 03 Numbers.. however having 01/02 numbers for the stores made more sense to me.. as some were also Numonic.

Just 2 quick notes: I notice BT have included an 03 number as apposed to calling their FreeFone 0800 numbers have only found 2 so far. Customer Services for Broadband and Landlines. Broadband : 0330 123 4567 / 0800 111 4567. Landlines: 0330 123 4150 / 0800 800 150 or 150 from a BT Landline.

Also when renewing your Motoring Tax they have an 03 Number : 0300 123 4321 (however the website and some included paper work sent to my Dad includes the 0870 Number: 0870 850 4444) I guess it takes time to reprint ALL the info sent out.

Shall I add these to the Database?   :)  :)

Regards,

CJT-80 wrote on Feb 26^th, 2010 at 5:48pm:

Shall I add these to the Database?   :)  :)

No. I will do that. It's good that BT has set-up the 0330 numbers for line faults (150) and broadband faults.  [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]

Where did you find out about 0330 1234 150 ?

Linky: http://tinyurl.com/yag698r It's such a long address I decided to shorten it, or you can preview it : http://preview.tinyurl.com/yag698r

I am sure if someone was to click through the contact departments more have 03 numbers, but I just picked those 2...

I stumbled accross the Broaband ones while helping a friend..

Did you see my post about Richer Sounds?

I think this sites amazing, and am starting to post a lot more.

With a nickname that sounds like the model name of an amp, we might have guessed a connection with RS. Excellent business.

A warm welcome to the forum. It may be worth putting a comment about BT supporting mobile callers in this thread.

Hi SCV,

thanks for the heads up... being new to these forums how do I make my URL's like the link you gave me? Coloured and a word instead of a link?

CJT-80 wrote on Feb 26^th, 2010 at 9:08pm:

how do I make my URL's like the link you gave me? Coloured and a word instead of a link?

The easy way to copy what anyone has done in a posting is to click on "quote". This shows the posting as it was coded. You can simply note what you see and then go back to the previous page, rather than posting a reply. Inviting you and everyone else to do that is probably easier than trying to explain the particular technique for doing normal style hyperlinks.

There is also lots of stuff about the syntax for posting in the Help.

CJT-80 wrote on Feb 26^th, 2010 at 9:08pm:

thanks for the heads up... being new to these forums how do I make my URL's like the link you gave me? Coloured and a word instead of a link?

See this thread.  ;)

CJT-80 wrote on Feb 26^th, 2010 at 6:46pm:

Did you see my post about Richer Sounds?

Yes. I noted Richer Sounds' 0330 numbers in reply #39 of this thread in October. It says that if the store called is busy, then the caller will be directed to the central call centre, which might be why they use the 0330 numbers.

OK so here it goes: SayNoTo0870

Lets see if it works.

;)

CJT-80 wrote on Feb 27^th, 2010 at 10:53am:

Lets see if it works.

The "Preview" feature renders the entered posting as it will appear. There should be no surprises after clicking "Post"!

OK - hands up - I sometimes forget to spell cheque, or have to modify after posting because what I have written is too easy to understand. ;)

workpermit.com

Cheaper calls to workpermit.com London Office

03 June 2010

http://www.workpermit.com/news/2010-06-03/workpermit/cheaper-calls-london-office.htm

<<
We are pleased to announce that the main contact number for the workpermit.com London office is now 0344 991 9222.

Please note that the only difference between the new number and the old number is that the second digit "8" has been replaced with "3". If you are phoning from outside the UK the number is +44 344 991 9222. The previous number 0844 991 9222 still works.

The new 0344 number has the following important benefits:

   * It is generally cheaper to phone the new 0344 number than the 0844 number.
   * If you are based in the UK 0344 calls should be in your inclusive minutes in your monthly mobile or landline call package.
   * It may actually be free depending on your call plan to phone a 0344 number. For example it is free on a Skype monthly telephone call plan.

We are confident that based on feedback from clients and prospective clients that this change will, for many of you, significantly reduce the cost of phoning the workpermit.com London office.
>>

I found that http://www.blood.co.uk/ has got   0300 123 23 23 as contact number.

Gudman,

it was previously 08457 711 711 , pity they didn't simply change it to 03457 711 711 would of made more sense!

Never mind, at least they have

:)

CJT-80 wrote on Jun 4^th, 2010 at 10:19pm:

it was previously 08457 711 711 , pity they didn't simply change it to 03457 711 711 would of made more sense!

The new number covers NHS Blood and Transplant, a combination of what were previously two separate services.

I have been told that there was a long debate about whether to use one of the two previous numbers in its 03 form (as suggested), have two separate 03 numbers or adopt one equally memorable new number. Arguments about which number(s) to use, including consideration of a variety of possible new numbers, actually delayed a process which had already been going on for a very long time.

One can see that there may be merits in all of the alternatives, however I am reluctant to express a view about whether or not the right decision was made. (I do not even know which alternative new numbers were available!) As suggested, let us simply be grateful that these arguments did not prevent the project from finally being completed, after sterling efforts by their telecoms manager. I believe that special hero status is due here, for having led the NHS in the move to 03.

---

idb wrote on Jun 4^th, 2010 at 10:00am:

workpermit.com

I hope that nobody will confuse this private company with The UK Border Agency, which uses a combination of 0300, 0845 and geo numbers. Many are concerned about the way in which companies like this make money offering services which are available for free (or at least at an overall lower charge) from official sources - a slightly cheaper telephone call may only be the start of a much more expensive, although probably fully legitimate, process.

Bennetts Electrical is now on this list as head office, online orders and stores now have freephone numbers after having use 0871 and 0870 in the past.

UNICEF's Soccer Aid is using 0330 123 1966 for donations.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

What is more annoying is a local service which doesn't give you a land-line number.  Absolutely ridiculous. This should be illegal. On the bright side the travel company eShores which is based in Rochdale, gives it's land-line number out on the home page and brochures as an alternative to its 0800 number. Pretty damn good I think.

ClaraD wrote on Jul 5^th, 2010 at 10:44am:

What is more annoying is a local service which doesn't give you a land-line number.  Absolutely ridiculous. This should be illegal. On the bright side the travel company eShores which is based in Rochdale, gives it's land-line number out on the home page and brochures as an alternative to its 0800 number. Pretty damn good I think.

By 'land-line' I mean of course geographical phone number.

ClaraD wrote on Jul 5^th, 2010 at 10:44am:

What is more annoying is a local service which doesn't give you a land-line number.  Absolutely ridiculous. This should be illegal. On the bright side the travel company eShores which is based in Rochdale, gives it's land-line number out on the home page and brochures as an alternative to its 0800 number. Pretty damn good I think.

Thanks. I've added those numbers to our database.  :)

I think there is a trend now of big companies giving their geographical number in the case of their head office. This is a reasonable and sensical step as every company - no matter how big it is - has to be based somewhere. My recent dealings with this company lead me to their site which also gives a proper number - not a rip off number - Maria Mallaband Care Group

IO Mart Group has changed its 0870 numbers to 0370 ones. It incorporates Easyspace, Internetters and others.

We could perhaps do with a Hall of Fame for users of 01/02 numbers, particularly where many competitors use premium 08 numbers.

Aztec Telecom works with businesses to reduce their mobile phone costs and uses a normal geographic number. Jeff Dandy of the company tweeted Great Website to search for 0870 & 0845 Alternative Telephone Numbers, www.saynoto0870.com #nefollowers


On the other hand, Benjamin Scott is in the same type of business and has chosen to promote itself on radio using what it claims is a "local rate" 0844 number. :-X

For this, it has earned its place in the Hall of Shame. Would you deal with a company that specialises in analysis of the cost of telephone calls, but doesn't know the cost of ringing it?  ::)

Another retailer joins the club - http://www.bestbuy.co.uk/

0333 777 7777

If you use the website instead of the phone number, don't forget to get there via Quidco for (at least) 3% cashback too!

Samsung has earned its place in our Hall of Fame. Its support number is now 0330 SAMSUNG (0330 7267864).

http://www.rsabi.org.uk/gatepost/

Quote:

0300 111 4166 Another letter from the bank... The tractor’s broken down again... You can’t see the kitchen table for forms waiting to be filled in... You have a family business but the family can’t agree on how to run it... Your partner is looking worried but won’t say why... You’re worried about your health or someone else's... You’re stuck on your own at the back of beyond and never see anyone...

http://www.rsabi.org.uk/view_item.aspx?item_id=2348&list_id=list1-2067&list_index=0
http://www.heraldscotland.com/business/markets-economy/stressed-farmers-can-lean-on-charity-via-helpline-1.1070195

Caravan Guard has earned its place in our Hall of Fame. As a former user of 0845 numbers, it now publishes a 0800 number along with a 01422 number with a note to say it may be cheaper for customers calling from a mobile.

See also posting on the Company's blog:

http://www.leisuredays.co.uk/news/bbc-watchdog-backs-up-our-move-to-phase-out-0845-numbers-787/

Heinz wrote on Nov 8^th, 2010 at 3:43pm:

Another retailer joins the club - http://www.bestbuy.co.uk/ 0333 777 7777 If you use the website instead of the phone number, don't forget to get there via Quidco for (at least) 3% cashback too!

I don't know if it's best to comment here (sorry Dave) but Best Buy need to re-word their call charges to 03 Numbers -
"Contact us by phone on 0333 777 7777*
8am-9pm Monday to Friday, 9am-9pm Saturday, 10am-6pm Sunday.

*calls charged at no more than 5p/min from a BT landline, charges from other networks may vary and calls from mobiles will cost significantly more"

It's the part about mobiles that concerns me most!

Not so much as a "hall of shame", but a bit of a rant.. did the annual car insurance hunt yesterday.

We had been with admiral, whose service over several claims has been topnotch - they advertise an 0871 number but make no secret of 0800 & 029 equivalents which also work fine.

M&S Insurance advertise all over their website, 0800 as you'd expect. As soon as you purchase a policy, the documentation lists 0844 all over it. Fortunately.. there is an 0800 equivalent which also works fine. Needless to say I've written a cardboard email to them... If it wasn't for the 0800 equivalent, I'd be cancelling the policy under the 14day rule.

japitts wrote on Dec 31^st, 2010 at 4:43pm:

M&S Insurance advertise all over their website, 0800 as you'd expect. As soon as you purchase a policy, the documentation lists 0844 all over it. Fortunately.. there is an 0800 equivalent which also works fine. Needless to say I've written a cardboard email to them... If it wasn't for the 0800 equivalent, I'd be cancelling the policy under the 14day rule.

Companies should be forced to make prospective customers aware of their use of premium numbers they use having signed up.

The Stroke Association has earned its place in our Hall of Fame as it has switched its helpline from a 0845 to a 0303 number.

Their description of 03xx numbers, while a bit lengthy, is accurate and commendable. They refer to the Helplines Association as recommending 03xx numbers http://www.helplines.org.uk/content/contact-us Spot the 0845 :o To be fair they also give geographic numbers but having an 0845 at all goes against their own guidance. http://www.helplines.org.uk/content/setting-helpline "Call the THA helpline for helplines"

Avon Cosmetics is now in our Hall of Fame as it has replaced its 0845 numbers with 0333 ones:
http://www.avon.uk.com/PRSuite/ContactUsThree.page?qnNo=1&CURR_URL=contact_us_main.page&CURR_URL=contact_us_main.page

ONS got it right for the 2011 Census!

http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1299501998

http://www.census.gov.uk/

Hi this is my first visit to this site - excellent.

Just want to point out I tried to call my bank on that dreadful 0845 number, I absolutely detest auto attendants (press 1 for etc etc), then I got transferred to phone banking and I do not want to use phone banking, (love the internet, love email, hate the phone)  so after being told by the voice on the end od the phone to enter my account details and phone banking passord, which I do not have and do not want, I finally gave up after being unable to get through to a human being.

Can we please return to the days where you could call your local branch on a geographcal number (so you know exactly where you are calling), speak to a human being and conduct business.

These dreadful call centres and 0845/0870/whatever numbers are a nightmare.

And don't even get me started on premium rate number I never ever use them.

Sorry to let off steam but aren't organisations supposed to measure customer satisfaction in order to increase business confidence, if I cannot talk to a human being I really do not want to do business with organisations who use these dreadful centralised call centres.

Hire company A-Plant has joined the Hall of Fame as a former 0870 user, its main number is now 0370 050 0797.

Groupama Healthcare has moved from 0870 numbers to 0333 ones, as its contact page shows.

Good Evening, not sure if I should post this here, but the rest of Groupama Insurance has not followed suit in changing it's contact numbers as shown here

Lets hope they do soon.

CJT-80 wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2011 at 7:46pm:

Good Evening, not sure if I should post this here, but the rest of Groupama Insurance has not followed suit in changing it's contact numbers as shown here Lets hope they do soon.

I have suggested that they look at changing the "Insurances" division to 03 numbers as well.

:) :) :) :)

Indeed

I believe they are a Direct insurance provider/underwriter.

But am not sure.

The AA (Motoring) not the liquid variety has changed the Breakdown from Mobiles from 0800 to an 0844 number - 0800 was bad enough from a mobile because you were charged - so I left the AA on Fri.16 Sept after 60 years of Family loyalty and joined the RAC

I also emailed to the AA Holding Company that are a Private Equity and the AA has been sold on 4 times in the last 4 years to others similar that are asset stripping and dared them to reply - got an Auto out of office so far and am awaiting a reply HA HA

When I looked on the RAC Site I found that all of their Customer Services and Insur. are 0844 so sent them a stiff email and a Challenge to change the Breakdown and Accident from 0800 to 0300 and Customer Services the same - I Challanged them to make those Ground Breaking Changes to show the way forward to Others. - I await their reply in hope. Will update if/when I get
replies  ;D

I have put on the alternatives board the Atlas Editions a vehicle models Company

Their number now is 0844 8709888 that I used to use but on huntiing old sites found 0845 533036 which I dialed and went to the same menue as 0844  :P

I also found 0800 3213339 but keep forgetting to try it - will do so when I next remember   ;D

speedy wrote on Sep 18^th, 2011 at 10:36pm:

The AA (Motoring) not the liquid variety has changed the Breakdown from Mobiles from 0800 to an 0844 number - 0800 was bad enough from a mobile because you were charged - so I left the AA on Fri.16 Sept after 60 years of Family loyalty and joined the RAC I also emailed to the AA Holding Company that are a Private Equity and the AA has been sold on 4 times in the last 4 years to others similar that are asset stripping and dared them to reply - got an Auto out of office so far and am awaiting a reply HA HA When I looked on the RAC Site I found that all of their Customer Services and Insur. are 0844 so sent them a stiff email and a Challenge to change the Breakdown and Accident from 0800 to 0300 and Customer Services the same - I Challanged them to make those Ground Breaking Changes to show the way forward to Others. - I await their reply in hope. Will update if/when I get replies  ;D

The AA UK emergency breakdown number,s
0800 88 77 66 or 0121 275 3746
both still work from both landlines and mobiles.

As does the RAC,s 0800 828282 .

If you have inclusive mobile minutes you can use a service like http://www.0800buster.co.uk/ to make 0800 calls at no extra cost from your mobile.

Yes bigjohn There are the usual 0800 numbers on my renewal sheet and card in Jan but was advised by someone to look on AA site where it says clearly Mobiles to use 0844 xxxxx - I think they may be testing the Waters prior to Announcing - looks like they will eventually be removing the Mobile 0800 - if not why put an advisory on the site - I think they are trying to slide it under the wire - on the AA Reviews their Members are leaving in droves because of this and the quality of their Customer Services Staff.

Most of my info came from 2 members of staff, one an old school Patrolman the other a member of Staff both are friends, who had viewed their Jobs as a vocation of many years not just a Job.

I have a Pay as you go for Breakdowns - dont have inclusive mins on these. Its never on unless by special arrangement so I dont give out my Molile number - not used normally.

Plusnet have just released details of a 03 number for support: 0345 140 0200 - see here

@ Reserved,

Glad to see PlusNet have finally moved over to 03 numbers.

They used to publish their Sheffield Geographic numbers but for emergency cover measures, they stopped. Then then said they had planned to replace the costly 0845 contact numbers.

I am glad they finally have.

I wonder if Madasafish (who they own) will follow suit?

:)

CJT-80 wrote on Oct 19^th, 2011 at 6:48pm:

I wonder if Madasafish (who they own) will follow suit? :)

In the future perhaps, see in this post

@ reserved,

see my reply to BPullen's comment.

Regards,

@ CJT-80

Await his answer  ;)

Oh so UR the TBB member called reserved  :)

I remember they DID have it answering in SA at one point

Funny story, I used to work for a Mobile Phone network, and my colleague was helping a customer, she asked me if we supported e-mails from MAAF, but she called them...

Madasa Fish!

;D  :)

CJT-80 wrote on Oct 19^th, 2011 at 8:41pm:

Oh so UR the TBB member called reserved  :)

'Tis me


CJT-80 wrote on Oct 19^th, 2011 at 8:41pm:

I remember they DID have it answering in SA at one point

They did but it moved back to UK a while ago.

reserved wrote on Oct 19^th, 2011 at 4:00pm:

Plusnet have just released details of a 03 number for support: 0345 140 0200 - see here

The reason this was done is because I submitted a complaint to the ASA on 27th August when the thread,(can't find it now), about Plusnet was posted, the ASA told them not to use the "Lo-call" claim and Plusnet have obviously responded by removing the 0845 number altogether.

Shelter has now joined the Hall of Fame. It has migrated its 0844 numbers to 0344 ones. It also has 0300 330 1234 for donations.

But Shelter Cymru continues to sport its own Business Rate number, 0845 075 5005. And Shelter England's contact page still gives its reception number as 0844 515 2000, despite the fact that it can be reached on 0344 515 2000 and 020 7505 2000.

Dave wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 10:51pm:

… And Shelter England's contact page still gives its reception number as 0844 515 2000, despite the fact that it can be reached on 0344 515 2000 and 020 7505 2000.

Shelter has now updated the contact page with the 0344 number. Well done.

It's just Shelter Cymru that needs to catch up....

Maybe worth complaining here

Credit due to Npower who have just written to a friend: ...call us on 0800 316 9329 (free from most landlines) or 0330 100 8629 ( included in any inclusive minutes on mobiles)."

Southern Rail now have an alternative geographic number listed for people on call plans and mobile phone users.  :)


Dave wrote on Apr 16^th, 2008 at 2:22pm:

Those who have abandoned 084x/087x numbers in favour of 01/02 or freephone Discussion threads contain links to minutes of meetings and other relevant pages showing the change of telephone number. Alan Boswell Group Asda - Used to use 0844 numbers for Asda Direct, Home Shopping as well as its "Service Team" and these all now have 0800 numbers. Aston Villa Football Club - Ticket office and some other departments are freephone numbers; all others are 0121 numbers. It used to use 0871 (see entries in our database). Bennetts Retail Ltd (Bennetts Electrical) Head office, online orders and stores all have freephone numbers. Bradford City FC [url=http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1197894703]Discussion here[/url] Caravan Guard publishes both 0800 and 01422 numbers FindMyPast.com [url=http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1163376219/7#7]Discussion here[/url] Message posted on Say No To 0870 from Head of Marketing. Nutrition Assocates [url=http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1182436234]Discussion here[/url] Reverted to 01 after being made aware that 0845 is not "local rate". Oldham Community Leisure [url=http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1181308134]Discussion here[/url]changed from 0161 to 0844 and described them as "local rate". Following my email pointing out that this is incorrect, they have now said that they are going to change back to 0161 numbers. Philips Consumer Electronics Support is now 0800 or 020 (depending on product type). Quiet PC UK Reel Cinemas has changed its central automated booking line for use across all its branches from 0870 801 0870 to 01509 221155. Wintercorn Internet Consulting [url=http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1197920087]Discussion here[/url] Switched from 0870 to freephone, including support.

coe114c wrote on Aug 15^th, 2012 at 2:16pm:

Southern Rail now have an alternative geographic number listed for people on call plans and mobile phone users.  :)

...and are you going to share it with us? ::)

coe114c wrote on Aug 15^th, 2012 at 2:16pm:

Southern Rail now have an alternative geographic number listed for people on call plans and mobile phone users.  :) Dave wrote on Apr 16th, 2008 at 2:22pm: Those who have abandoned 084x/087x numbers in favour of 01/02 or freephone Discussion threads contain links to minutes of meetings and other relevant pages showing the change of telephone number. Alan Boswell Group Asda - Used to use 0844 numbers for Asda Direct, Home Shopping as well as its "Service Team" and these all now have 0800 numbers. Aston Villa Football Club - Ticket office and some other departments are freephone numbers; all others are 0121 numbers. It used to use 0871 (see entries in our database). Bennetts Retail Ltd (Bennetts Electrical) Head office, online orders and stores all have freephone numbers. Bradford City FC [url=http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1197894703]Discussion here[/url] Caravan Guard publishes both 0800 and 01422 numbers FindMyPast.com [url=http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1163376219/7#7]Discussion here[/url] Message posted on Say No To 0870 from Head of Marketing. Nutrition Assocates [url=http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1182436234]Discussion here[/url] Reverted to 01 after being made aware that 0845 is not "local rate". Oldham Community Leisure [url=http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1181308134]Discussion here[/url]changed from 0161 to 0844 and described them as "local rate". Following my email pointing out that this is incorrect, they have now said that they are going to change back to 0161 numbers. Philips Consumer Electronics Support is now 0800 or 020 (depending on product type). Quiet PC UK Reel Cinemas has changed its central automated booking line for use across all its branches from 0870 801 0870 to 01509 221155. Wintercorn Internet Consulting [url=http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1197920087]Discussion here[/url] Switched from 0870 to freephone, including support.

Hello and welcome to SayNoTo0870.com.

Whilst an alternative does allow those who are aware of them the opportunity to avoid paying premium charges, they don't mean that all will, and so such companies don't have any place in the Hall of Fame.

sherbert wrote on Aug 15^th, 2012 at 2:35pm:

coe114c wrote on Aug 15th, 2012 at 2:16pm: Southern Rail now have an alternative geographic number listed for people on call plans and mobile phone users.  :) ...and are you going to share it with us? ::)

From the website: "Depending on your call plan, especially for mobile phone users, you may find the following number cheaper: 0208 185 0778 (sic)" (This number is already in the database)

Hi Dave,

just to let you know the link for 3663 Food Service in the Hall of Fame does not work it should go to: http://www.3663.co.uk/

Also Best Buy no longer operates in the UK and the page listed has a redirect on it... not sure if the 03 number they used still works..

CJT-80 wrote on Jan 4^th, 2014 at 11:55pm:

Hi Dave, just to let you know the link for 3663 Food Service in the Hall of Fame does not work it should go to: http://www.3663.co.uk/ Also Best Buy no longer operates in the UK and the page listed has a redirect on it... not sure if the 03 number they used still works..

3663 link updated; Best Buy removed.

Cheers Dave

:) :)

Being a bit slow here but why would a retailer like RS want to make customers pay premium rate when telephoning them? Sounds like a great reason not to call! My local independant audio shop has a geographic phone number and long may it last !

Dave wrote on Feb 26^th, 2010 at 6:17pm:

CJT-80 wrote on Feb 26th, 2010 at 5:48pm: Shall I add these to the Database?   :)  :) No. I will do that. It's good that BT has set-up the 0330 numbers for line faults (150) and broadband faults.  [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif] Where did you find out about 0330 1234 150 ?

[edit]Name of retailer and link to it removed by Dave.[/edit]

hankypanky wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 4:53pm:

Being a bit slow here but why would a retailer like RS want to make customers pay premium rate when telephoning them? Sounds like a great reason not to call! My local independant audio shop has a geographic phone number and long may it last !

Two reasons spring to mind:

1. Because it can get away with it, up to now. The new law (The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Payments) Regulations 2013), which has come about as a result of the Consumer Rights Directive, says no to premium numbers for customer service lines.

2. Because they don't have appreciated for the fact that there is a premium involved, which is to become known as the Service Charge. As an example, RS says, at the bottom of its pages "For general enquiries: 08457 201201 (standard rate line)".

hankypanky wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 4:53pm:

Being a bit slow here but why would a retailer like RS want to make customers pay premium rate when telephoning them? Sounds like a great reason not to call! My local independant audio shop has a geographic phone number and long may it last ! Dave wrote on Feb 26th, 2010 at 6:17pm: CJT-80 wrote on Feb 26th, 2010 at 5:48pm: Shall I add these to the Database?   :)  :) No. I will do that. It's good that BT has set-up the 0330 numbers for line faults (150) and broadband faults.  [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif] Where did you find out about 0330 1234 150 ?

I used to work for RS many years ago, and they had a strange system for their phone lines and calls.. so I assume they wanted to improve them and thankfully took the route of using an 03 number... They route to an IVR Menu which gives at least 2 options, well I know the stores numbers do.. not sure on Customer Services.

Regarding BT I stumbled across the number while looking for help for a friend of mine who is with them.

:)

[edit]Name of retailer and link to it removed by Dave.[/edit]

Dave wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 5:03pm:

hankypanky wrote on Feb 13th, 2014 at 4:53pm: Being a bit slow here but why would a retailer like RS want to make customers pay premium rate when telephoning them? Sounds like a great reason not to call! My local independant audio shop has a geographic phone number and long may it last ! Two reasons spring to mind: 1. Because it can get away with it, up to now. The new law (The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Payments) Regulations 2013), which has come about as a result of the Consumer Rights Directive, says no to premium numbers for customer service lines. 2. Because they don't have appreciated for the fact that there is a premium involved, which is to become known as the Service Charge. As an example, RS says, at the bottom of its pages "For general enquiries: 08457 201201 (standard rate line)".

1. Hankypanky  03 are not premium rate numbers and Richer Sounds explain this clearly on their site.

"03 numbers connect you directly to the store or department you call, and are charged at the same rate as you are charged for numbers starting in 01 and 02.
03 numbers are included in all bundle rates for mobile phones and landlines."  www.richersounds.com

2. Dave RS is Richer Sounds not the RS you link to.

bigjohn wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 5:32pm:

2. Dave RS is Richer Sounds not the RS you link to.

hankypanky referred to "RS" which, as it appears now, was used as an abbreviation for a company which does not normally go by that name and for which he did not define. It's not surprising therefore that there is liable to be confusion with a company which trades under that name and which is also in the electronics field.

I have dealt with the RS which is not Richer Sounds for many years. They are NOT a retailer, even though they have relaxed their "trade only" policy a little in recent years. Normal consumer protection law therefore doesn't apply to them as they only sell to businesses, not private individuals. Still wrong for them to be using 0845 numbers, though to be fair, they may well have done this since the dim and distant days when it was an advantage to customers to have a "local" rate number.

Richer Sounds, as others have said, are good guys as far as phone contact is concerned.

The biggest entry of all. This applies to most of you.

Anyone hypocrite running their own 07XXX prefix number (usually a mobile at non 01/02/03 rates) whilst at the same time expecting to call XYZ organisation at 01/02/03 rates.

How can they complain at the NGN numbers used when often if costs more to call them on their 07XXX mobile.

They have no argument.

03700000000 wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2014 at 11:05am:

The biggest entry of all. This applies to most of you. Anyone hypocrite running their own 07XXX prefix number (usually a mobile at non 01/02/03 rates) whilst at the same time expecting to call XYZ organisation at 01/02/03 rates. How can they complain at the NGN numbers used when often if costs more to call them on their 07XXX mobile. They have no argument.

What on earth? Seriously have you just come back on here (after a large absence) to make confusing posts???

03700000000 wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2014 at 11:05am:

The biggest entry of all. This applies to most of you. Anyone hypocrite running their own 07XXX prefix number (usually a mobile at non 01/02/03 rates) whilst at the same time expecting to call XYZ organisation at 01/02/03 rates. How can they complain at the NGN numbers used when often if costs more to call them on their 07XXX mobile. They have no argument.

Whilst in principle I agree, there are however differences:

• A mobile telephone is mobile which means that the person being called is available when they are not near their landline. It may be a case of a mobile number or no number simply because the landline number won't get answered (due to them not being at home).
  
  So while there can be an "alternative" when the person is at home or work, there is usually not so when out and about.
   
  
• Mobile users have no option but to have it as it is whereas corporate bodies have had 03 numbers available for nearly seven years, yet few have taken up the offer, particularly until recently when forced to do so by the change in the law.

03700000000 wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2014 at 11:05am:

The biggest entry of all. This applies to most of you. Anyone hypocrite running their own 07XXX prefix number (usually a mobile at non 01/02/03 rates) whilst at the same time expecting to call XYZ organisation at 01/02/03 rates. How can they complain at the NGN numbers used when often if costs more to call them on their 07XXX mobile. They have no argument.

Its possible to call 07xxx numbers from a landline without inclusive minutes  for less then then 2p a minute these days try doing that to a 0844/0871 number.

bigjohn wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2014 at 5:36pm:

Its possible to call 07xxx numbers from a landline without inclusive minutes  for less then then 2p a minute these days try doing that to a 0844/0871 number.

Whilst this may well be the case, it is important to remember that this is merely a "money-saving" tip which a tiny number of consumers may take up. (There is also the question of how worthwhile having to dial these numbers are as calls currently incur a set-up charge of circa 15 pence, so a two-minute call will cost 17 pence which equates to 8.5 pence per minute.)

The more general picture is that calls to mobiles from landlines cost much more than calls to landlines from landlines. For far too long now there has been a great inequity.

Dave wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2014 at 11:45pm:

bigjohn wrote on Feb 22nd, 2014 at 5:36pm: Its possible to call 07xxx numbers from a landline without inclusive minutes  for less then then 2p a minute these days try doing that to a 0844/0871 number. Whilst this may well be the case, it is important to remember that this is merely a "money-saving" tip which a tiny number of consumers may take up. (There is also the question of how worthwhile having to dial these numbers are as calls currently incur a set-up charge of circa 15 pence, so a two-minute call will cost 17 pence which equates to 8.5 pence per minute.) The more general picture is that calls to mobiles from landlines cost much more than calls to landlines from landlines. For far too long now there has been a great inequity.

Yes their is a great inequity in charging but as i see it the poster is arguing as a business its expensive to call mobile numbers often given out by customers, where as customers expect to call geographical or freephone numbers.

But normally  Businesses that have a sensible telecom set up dont have pay that much to call mobile numbers ,where as customers cant avoid expensive calls to 0844/0871 type numbers,anymore then a business can.

bigjohn wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2014 at 3:37am:

Yes their is a great inequity in charging but as i see it the poster is arguing as a business its expensive to call mobile numbers often given out by customers, where as customers expect to call geographical or freephone numbers. But normally  Businesses that have a sensible telecom set up dont have pay that much to call mobile numbers ,where as customers cant avoid expensive calls to 0844/0871 type numbers,anymore then a business can.

I have raised the question of charges to mobile numbers with corporate telephony services in the thread I've never really understood this site's premise?, which was started by 03700000000 on the topic of private individuals having their own "expensive" phone numbers in the form of mobile numbers.

Of course, any avoidance or mitigation of high charges in no way gives rise to any justification. I wish to see the issue of calls to mobiles being more expensive addressed just as much as that of expensive calls to businesses.

Those that doubt the shift away from 084 and 087 numbers should peruse this list.

Except for HMRC and two others, most of these have happened in the last few months:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/news/new-helpline-numbers-apr23.htm
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/news/new-numbers-helplines.htm
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/news/helplines-0300-numbers.htm

http://www.gov.uk/government/news/dwp-helps-cut-telephone-call-costs-from-march-2014

http://www.psni.police.uk/general__launch_of_101_non-emergency_number
http://www.police.uk/contact/alternative-non-emergency-numbers/

http://www.nhs24.com/111

http://www.slc.co.uk/stakeholders-partners/latest-news/student-loans-company-switches-to-030-numbers.aspx

http://www.saas.gov.uk/contact_us/phone.htm

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/11114853.County_drops_its_0845_phone_codes/

http://www.rochdalenewsroom.com/pressreleases/phoning-the-council-you-can-now-use-cheaper-0300-numbers-969556

http://www.theadvertiserseries.co.uk/news/11144483.Council_dumps_0845_number/

http://www.pacey.org.uk/news/news/october_2013_news/new_customer_services_number.aspx

http://www.pta.org.uk/pta-news/archive/january-2014/new-number/

http://www2.nationalgrid.com/uk/Our-company/electricity/Distribution-Network-Operator-Companies/#phBodyLv2

http://www.tesco.com/store-locator/uk/asp/towns/?l=L&t=LONDON

http://www.ocado.com/webshop/getAlternateContactUs.do

http://www.3663corporate.co.uk/about-us/where-to-find-us/offices

http://www.jet2.com/News/Jet2_com_Reduces_Customer_Service_Call_Charges/

http://support.easyjet.com/contactus

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumertips/household-bills/10452964/RBS-and-Barclays-drop-premium-rate-lines-as-watchdog-shames-financial-sector.html

http://your.nationwide.co.uk/your-news/articles/Pages/Nationwide-to-become-fully-Freephone.aspx

http://www.cityam.com/article/1391403375/tsb-scraps-its-premium-calls

http://www.denwa.uk.com/cc-news/are-premium-rate-revenue-sharing-numbers-a-thing-of-the-past

http://www.phonepayplus.org.uk/For-Business/Code-and-Help/Code-Compliance-Updates/Effect-of-changes-in-consumer-law-on-the-use-of-premium-rate-numbers.aspx

Pituitary
http://www.pituitary.org.uk/news/information-briefing-changes-to-our-0845-telephone-numbers/

Nice to see an organisation realising that 084 numbers are not the way forward.

Pity they made a glaring mistake with the "National Rate" calls statement.  I have given them feedback on that.

:)

2 thumbs up to all these companys

Conference Call Service switches from 0844 to 033 making it truly free to use.

http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/news-releases/freeconferencecouk-replaces-0844-with-033-to-provide-a-truly-free-conference-calling-option-to-uk-customers-518756081.html

Birmingham Midshires (also BM Savings) have got rid of their 0845 numbers and are now using 0345 602 2828 as their primary contact number.

http://www.birminghammidshires.co.uk/

This page also gives +441902 428 311 for those outside the UK who may have difficulty using the 03 number.

There is a long list of 08 numbers for BM here at sayno. I suspect they can now be replaced by a single entry using the numbers above.

It's possible that 08 numbers are still lurking in odd corners of the BM systems - I received a letter dated 17/7/15 which still used them.

One for the hall of shame. Got a pension statement from Prudential dated 14/8/15. Still giving 0845 6403000 as their main contact. On some pages it says this is local rate. No mention of service charge as required by law.

To their credit they give a number for calling from overseas: +44 178 644 8844 Though with wrong grouping of digits.

Their website still gives lots of 0845 numbers without any mention of service charges.
http://www.pru.co.uk/contact_us/telephone_numbers/

allegro wrote on Aug 20^th, 2015 at 11:29am:

Their website still gives lots of 0845 numbers without any mention of service charges. http://www.pru.co.uk/contact_us/telephone_numbers/

There is one 0844 number with an 0344 alternative, but that's about it. The website does give the impression that you can call 0800 000 000 for anything and they will route you to the right place.

If you click the "Savings Investments, Pensions" section you get a whole raft of 0845 numbers. Some other 0845 numbers in the various sections.

At least they are headlining their 0800 number.

Oh dear,

Yet another organisation that thinks "0207" is a dialling code for London - Fraud / Financial Crime      0207 004 8888      9am - 5pm (Mon - Fri)

Sometimes I do wonder how they still manage to get it so wrong!

It has only been 15 years since the change back to a single area code for London. It takes a lot longer than that for people to catch up.

We have had metric measures for 45 years and there are still very many people who haven't got a clue, and never will.

Ofcom's information is headed 'London area code' (singular) http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/telecoms/numbering/ so there's no real excuse.

Ian01 wrote on Aug 24^th, 2015 at 11:49am:

It has only been 15 years since the change back to a single area code for London. It takes a lot longer than that for people to catch up.

In this case, I don't believe they ever will, that ship has sailed. The separation of area codes is increasingly irrelevant and even Ofcom has effectively abandoned them in places like Brighton and Bournemouth.

Ian01 wrote on Aug 24^th, 2015 at 11:49am:

It has only been 15 years since the change back to a single area code for London. It takes a lot longer than that for people to catch up. We have had metric measures for 45 years and there are still very many people who haven't got a clue, and never will. Ofcom's information is headed 'London area code' (singular) http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/telecoms/numbering/ so there's no real excuse.

Thanks for that, very useful link which I can forward onto any companies I see who have 020 numbers mis-typed!

Perhaps Pru are a good starter...

Anoher one for the hall of shame: Maytag

http://www.maytag.co.uk/
CALL US ON: 0844 499 0101
No mention of a service charge.

They give an 020 number on their contacts page:
Get in touch by Phone
0844 499 0101 / International Dial: +44 (0) 208 616 5145

Both fame and shame here. The National Trust is to be commended for scrapping its various 084x numbers and moving to 034x equivalents.

However their halo is rather tarnished by their latest magazine which contains numerous advertisements using 084x numbers. In most cases these don't comply with the requirement to state the cost of using them.

This raises the question: Are the NT, as publishers, flouting the rules by accepting such ads or is it just guilt by association?

Overlooked that the NT is still using a 0844 number to request a large print version of its Autumn issue of Berks/Bucks etc news sheet.

Also their website hasn't been entirely purged of 0844 numbers:
http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/contact-us/
This doesn't comply with the rules on stating charges.

This page is even worse: http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/contact-us/contact-details/

Time to withdraw my nomination for hall of fame

Would the major offending words be "local rate" by any chance?

This maybe a case of how to completely ruin a change from 084 to 034 numbers.

Clearly someone at NT needs to be informed.  :-X

There's a whole ragbag of problems (local rate, no declaration of charges, old style declaration of charges) which suggest that they've taken a halfbaked approach to implementing the rules on premium rate numbers.

I have sent the following email to the NT:



Quote:

Dear Sirs I am surprised that the National Trust is confused about current legislation regarding premiun rate phone numbers. These are defined as those starting 084 and 087, which cost more than a standard number to call. Also 09 and 070 but I haven't seen any of these used by the NT. I have always been disappointed that the NT had chosen in the past to use 084 numbers for its primary public contact. The benefits to the NT would have been very small while the costs to members are excessive, especially when calling from mobiles. Legislation which came into force in July 2015 outlawed 084 and 087 numbers for most public contact purposes. Where they are still allowed there MUST be a declaration stating that they cost "Xp per minute plus your phone operator's access charge" where X is the actual cost. The access charge varies but is usually in the range 8p to 40p per minute. This page has a number of problems: http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/contact-us/ The 0844 number should not be shown at all. It is now illegal to do so. The term "local call rates apply" must never be shown as it is meaningless. The statement: "our 0844 numbers are charged at 5p per minute from BT landlines" is both illegal and incorrect. Since there is still some public confusion about 03 numbers it is useful to say that these are charged the same as 01 and 02 numbers, and are included in any call plans. This page is just as bad: http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/contact-us/contact-details/ With a ragbag of 087 and 084 numbers, now outlawed for these purposes, with incorrect declaration of costs. In theory the NT could still use 084/087 numbers for its press office as this is not a point for public contact but it still looks bad. I recently received my autumn issue of NT Magazine and NT near you. On the back of NT Near You: "For a large print version pleas call us on 0844 800 1895" This is simply illegal, even if charges were mentioned which they are not. It's also highly unethical as it's aimed at people with a disability. In the NT Magazine your own contact numbers are OK but there are many advertisers still using 084/087 numbers. Most don't declare the charges at all and are therefore acting illegally. The NT may not be formally guilty in these cases but it looks shoddy and causes guilt by association. While 084/087 numbers are allowed for initial sales contact there must be the correct declaration of charges. However any company that uses 084/087 numbers looks penny pinching and disrespectful to its customers. To summarise numbers that are allowed for public contact, they are what the legislation terms "basic rate" numbers. They are numbers starting with: 01, 02, 03 080 (free, including from mobiles) 07 (except those starting 070 which are a special case) The National Trust portrays itself as a responsible and ethical organisation. Its half baked implemtation of the legislation does it no favours. Yours faithfully

Previous messages of a similar nature, from a number of people, seem to have been largely ignored.

A few minor corrections and additional information for next time.

The BIS regulations requiring 01, 02, 03 or 080 numbers for post sales contact came into force in June 2014. The regulations apply to retailers, traders and passenger transport companies.

It is the Ofcom regulations requiring declaration of Service Charge that came into force in July 2015.

For the record, DoH regulations for GP practices came into force in April 2010,  guidelines for government departments and public service were published by the Cabinet Office in December 2013, and FCA regulation for the financial sector comes into force on 26 October 2015.

Access Charges currently range from 2p to 12p per minute from landlines and 5p to 45p from mobiles, with most providers charging near or at the top of those ranges.

You are correct that calls to 084 and 087 numbers must not be described as 'local rate' or 'national rate'. Both Ofcom and ASA issued a note about this in 2005.

While the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013 allows mobile numbers to be used, the implication is that this applies only to small traders where the use of a mobile phone might be expected to be the main or only point of contact, e.g. sole traders such as window cleaners, plumbers, etc, and not for a call centre.

Ian, thanks for giving the details of the various rules and regulations. I hope that my email to the NT has put the main arguments correctly, even if some of the details were not strictly accurate.

The NT can't be easily pinned down as a retailer, trader or transport company though in some respects it's all of these.


Quote:

Previous messages of a similar nature, from a number of people, seem to have been largely ignored.

Do you mean to the NT or to organisations/companies in general? I think we can all agree that the enforcement of the various regulations has been pretty abysmal. The worst has probably been the GPs where they have been dragging their feet for years without any apparent sanction.

I am aware of several people who have advised NT of their errors over the last year or so. They seem most unresponsive.

NT sells gift items, admission tickets and a magazine subscription. Looks like a trader to me, irrespective of whatever else it does. Lines used for those purposes have to comply with the applicable rules. If they choose to publish a long list of numbers (a mix of 03, 084 and 087 numbers), each with a specific purpose, then they are free to do so, but may look greedy and/or foolish.

Your email has conveyed the main issue that they need to change their number(s). Let's hope they act on it.

Now that we have the clarity of the separate Service Charge declaration, one simple question that can be asked of organisations still using 084 and 087 numbers is 'Why do callers have to pay Xp per minute to your telecoms provider in addition to paying their own landline or mobile provider for the call?' This is the nub of issue. This should draw attention to the fact that they are asking callers to subsidise their costs. This has been outlawed for post sales helplines and is inappropriate in many other settings. The related issue is that the use of an 084 or 087 number also exposes callers to Access Charges of up to 45p per minute.

The simplest route to compliance is to swap any 084 or 087 number over to the matching 034 or 037 number. In some cases, organisations have chosen a new 030 or 033 number instead.

Regarding companies moving to 0345 phone numbers, I have recently been corresponding to a large software company about their continued use of 0845 phone numbers.  I mentioned the Consumer Contracts (etc) 2013 and their reply was :-

We’ve reviewed the information you’ve provided and confirm that our use of 0845 telephone numbers for our helpline contacts does not contravene the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (the “2013 Regulations”) or the Ofcom rules in relation to non-geographic numbers (the “Ofcom Rules”).

Both the 2013 Regulations and the Ofcom Rules apply to businesses that provide their products and services to consumers.  The definition of a ‘consumer’ within both the 2013 Regulations and the Ofcom Rules only applies to individuals acting outside their trade, craft, business or profession.  We provide our products and services only to businesses so when our customers contact us they are acting in connection with their business which means they are not classified as ‘consumers’, as defined in the 2013 Regulations and the Ofcom Rules. 

Therefore, as we do not provide our products and services to consumers we do not have to comply with the provisions of the 2013 Regulations and the Ofcom Rules.

So much for Ofcon bringing in regulations for the use of premium numbers.

Kiwi_g wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 8:04am:

So much for Ofcon bringing in regulations for the use of premium numbers.

Well, this business certainly seems to have done its homework - their defence looks pretty watertight.

If any of their customers are 'consumers' rather than 'businesses' then they do need to advertise a number starting 01, 02, 03 or 080. The BIS rules do not apply if every customer is a business.

Irrespective of that, they do need to declare the Service Charge for any 084, 087 or 09 number that they advertise. Where the Ofcom rules talk about businesses, it is in relation to charges made by the caller's telephone provider. If the supply of telephone services is under a business contract, the caller's telephone provider is not obligated to use Access Charge plus Service Charge pricing. Some do, some don't. The business being called cannot know what type of telephone contract the caller has, and must declare the Service Charge for their number everywhere it is advertised.

The question has to be, why are they so fixated on gaining a 2p/5p/7p per minute subsidy from callers at the expense of making callers pay up to 47p/50p/52p per minute?

The software company is Sage.  Whilst they quote 0845 phone numbers on their letters etc, there is no information about cost.

I am not unsure about the definition of business users.  Sole traders are consumers.  How can they be so positive that none of their software is supplied to personal users? Furthermore, I am able to work remotely at home and if I contact Sage from home, my home phone bill suffers the various additional charges for 0845 phone numbers.

Kiwi_g wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 9:17am:

Furthermore, I am able to work remotely at home and if I contact Sage from home, my home phone bill suffers the various additional charges for 0845 phone numbers.

Yes, but that is still a business expense.

The situation regarding inclusion of small businesses (those employing no more than 10 people) within the definition of "consumers" is somewhat fraught. A little research shows that general consumer regulation has not taken the step that has been seen in some particular areas.

Ofcom is noted as being a "shining light" in this respect, due to the provisions of the Communications Act 2003
- notably Section 405, General Interpretation, from which I quote:


Quote:

(5)For the purposes of this Act persons are consumers in a market for a service, facility or apparatus, if they are—      (a)persons to whom the service, facility or apparatus is provided, made available or supplied (whether in their personal capacity          or for the purposes of, or in connection with, their businesses);      …

Some more research - perhaps a report to the Citizens Advice "Consumer" service about this particular possible breach of the relevant Consumer regulations - may be valuable to establish exactly where we stand.

Useful background reading includes Small Businesses As Consumers: Are They Sufficiently Well Protected? - a report for the Federation of Small Businesses.

Got a reply from the National Trust. A pretty dismal one too.


Quote:

Thank you for your email. Please accept my apologies for the delay in getting back to you, we have been extremely busy recently. I am sorry that you are disappointed with the use of 0844 numbers on The National Trust website. We initially chose the 0844 number for our Supporter Services Centre because it was non-geographic, not because we could raise income from it. We anticipated that we might want to physically move the location of the department and wanted, from a customer service point of view, to avoid having to confuse members with a new number. In November 2004, we did exactly this, moving from Kent to Merseyside, without having to change the number. In relation to both our 0844 and 0344 numbers being displayed, this is acceptable as an alternative 034 number is given for the main contact number. We state next to the 034 number that local call charges apply, indicative that calls to this number will be the same cost as those to 01 or 02 numbers. The price given to call our 0844 numbers from a BT landline is correct, and doing so meets the legal requirements, as it is standard practice to present the information in this way. If you were to call the 0844 800 1895 number, there is an automated message informing you of the alternative 0344 number and that it may be cheaper. Both numbers are currently displayed on the website as there are still some leaflets in circulation giving the 0844 version, but the 0344 number should have been used on any recent publications. I am sorry that the 0844 number appeared on the latest version of the Near You that you received. I have fed this back to the region as these are arranged locally. We are introducing a new website towards the end of the year, and only the 0344 number will be included for the Supporter Services Centre as publications containing the 0844 number should now be out of circulation. As you have stated, there is no legal requirement to give a 034 number for our Press Office as it is not a main contact number. Similarly, for Holiday Cottage enquiries, a 087 number is used, as the small amount of money received helps to offset the very large costs involved with operating the enquiries line. I am sorry that you are unhappy with the contact numbers used by companies advertising in the National Trust Magazine. Our magazine advertising is arranged externally by Madison Bell. They can be contacted on will.hurrell@madisonbell.com. I would like to reassure you that we do everything we can to ensure we comply with all relevant legislation, and strive to make any required changes before legislation changes are introduced. Telephone is not the only way to contact The National Trust. We are currently in the process of improving our Click to Chat service, and welcome emails regarding any subject to be sent to enquiries@nationaltrust.org.uk, where they will be acknowledged and forwarded to the relevant area of the organisation in a timely manner. Members and Supporters are also welcome to contact us by post if they would prefer. Thank you for taking the time to get in contact with us. It’s fantastic to hear from our supporters, as it helps us to understand how we’re doing and where we might improve in the future. Thank you also for your longstanding support of The National Trust - it is greatly appreciated.

I have written in reply:


Quote:

I'm not sure where to start. It's very sad to see a large charity with an international reputation being so unaware of current legislation.  It seems that the National Trust has no conscience in these matters. As a charity with profoundly ethical and moral aims this is appalling. 1: It is laudable not to confuse members with repeated number changes, hence the use of a non-georaphic number. But you have done just that, by having to move away from an 0844 number. Using an 0844 number meant that members and supporters could be paying up to 40p/minute to contact you, instead of using inclusive minutes. A very poor way to treat those who support you. 03 non-geo numbers have been available since 2007, you have waited 8 years to move away from 08 numbers. It was then and is now also possible to use 01 and 02 numbers in a non-geographic way. Technically a little more complex than using 08 or 03 numbers but well within the scope of any large organisation. 2: Under current legislation it is not acceptable to use an 084 or 087 number for customer service. No exceptions. If such a number is used for other purposes (such as booking) under current legislation the cost MUST be given as a service charge plus access charge. Please see this Ofcom document for full details: http://www.fairtelecoms.org.uk/ofcom---simplifying-non-geographic-numbers.html It is no longer legal to give "cost from BT" etc as you claim in your reply. It is also incorrect as BT now have an access charge of something like 10p/minute for 0844 numbers on top of any service charge that you may be taking. 3: The term "local rate" must no longer be used. It no longer has any meaning. It isn't actually necessary to say anything about 03 numbers but organisations may choose to do so. One suitable form of words is "Calls to 03 numbers are charged at the same rate as 01 and 02 numbers and are included in all call plans". 4: It is sad that the National Trust is not taking responsibility in a pro-active way for illegal practices in its publications. You should be taking it up with the advertising agency yourselves. In view of the above inadequacies in your reply I would like to refer this correspondence to somebody more senior with the National Trust. Please could you advise me of the most appropriate person, or better still forward this corespondence to them, with a copy to me.

All non-geographic numbers starting 03, 08 and 09 offer the same call-handling and call-forwarding facilities. Those facilities and features have to be paid for. The difference between the various prefixes comes down to who pays those additional costs. With 03 and 080 numbers it is the called party. With 084 and 087 numbers it is the caller that pays through the imposition of a declared Service Charge.

Does NT really think that the couple of pence per minute they receive from the Service Charge revenue in any way justifies exposing callers to Access Charges of up to 12p per minute from landlines or up to 45p per minute from mobiles?

The reference to 0844 numbers sometimes being cheaper to call than 0344 numbers is erroneous. This hasn't been true since 1 July 2015. It only ever applied to calls made from a BT landline without an inclusive call plan, and certainly does not apply now.

Noting the correspondence with the NT above, I too have dropped them a message.

This follows up on a message sent in September 2014, which had a fairly positive response. It is very disappointing that the necessary actions have not been completed. I believe that the Trust is moving in the right direction, although the steps are faltering and some wrong turns are being taken.

It is not my policy to publish private correspondence (i.e. that which is not specifically marked or approved as being for general publication). This is for a number of reasons, and I recognise that others feel free to behave differently.

If anyone is particularly interested in my exchanges with NT, please drop me an email or PM and I will be happy to share.

Had a fairly useless reply from a fairly senior manager at NT:


Quote:

David  (This is how he addressed me, David is not my name and I would expect to be addressed as Mr xxxx in this sort of correspondence) Thanks for your note although I totally disagree that we are in breach of the new regulations. I have retained the 0844 message to the end of the year as a small number of our supporters are still using it and it would appear that some of the old paperwork is in circulation. I understand Fiona has explained why the old number appeared on the “Near You” article, apart from this the new 0345 number appears on all the new paperwork, handbook, letters etc. These changes were a result of an EU directive in December 2013 which stated that from 13 June 2014 a new set of rules and requirement would be introduced which would replace the distance selling regulations 2000 and off premises (Doorstop) regulations 2008. Contained within that Directive was the clause that a Telephone number has to be offered to the consumer for any post contract enquiry that is not charged at any more than basic rate. The clause states: “Where a business has a telephone line that can be called by its customers relating to contracts entered into by its customers, that phone number cannot charge more than a basic rate, defined as an 01, 02, 03 or mobile number (071-075, 077-079) from 13 June 2014, or it must be free to caller.” This means that businesses can no longer publish 0845, 0870, 0844 or 0871 for this purpose, meaning that we that we had to change the contact number for all contacts that relate to any existing membership enquiry. I understand that telephone charges are an emotive subject, but we have tried to adhere to the legislation as best we can, bearing in mind the amount of literature we have had to alter. regards

And my further reply to him:


Quote:

Dear Mr xxxxx Thank you for addressing me by a name that is not one that I use. Your reply is almost as erroneous as that from xxxxxxxx. Apart from failing to address me correctly (xxxx to my friends, Mr xxxxxx for more more formal contact) and referring to 0345 numbers which I don't think you use you appear to be not fully aware of currrent regulations. While you are clearly aware of the basic legislation you have not addressed the requirement of correctly indicating charges for 084 numbers. Both you and Ms xxxxx seem to think it's still OK to give the "Charges from BT..." etc wording when it this is now outlawed. You have also failed to address the greater questions involved. It is laudable that the NT is planning to phase out 08x numbers though of course it should never have used them in the first place. You have had ample notice of the legistaltive and regulatory changes to have completed the removal and /or correctly indicate charges of 084 numbers by the 1/7/15 deadline yet you have failed. I hope that the NT would like to be seen to adhering to the highest moral and ethical standards. Its actions over 084/087 numbers and your reply clearly indicate that it is not. Please let me know to whom you formally report on the executive team so that I can write to them accordingly. Regards

And his reply. It's now a question of whether it's worth my while drafting a snail mail letter to the Director General of the NT. Complaining not so much about their phone policy as the incompetence and discourtesy of their staff. I feel it would have to start something like: "Dear Dame Helen, It is sad that I have to write to you about a matter that could and should have been adequately handled by your staff..." and followd by something like this in the body of the letter "... All it would have taken is a simple acknowledgement that the NT had got it wrong and were rather late in putting it right....."


Quote:

Mr xxxxx Firstly, please accept my apologises for the wrong name on my reply, I am not sure why this happened as I would normally not address anyone by their first name unless previously agreed. Our complaint escalation policy is shown on our website, if you are unhappy with my response please address correspondence to the Director-General, at the address below. The National Trust Heelis Kemble Drive Swindon SN2 2NA regards

If the sole purpose of the remaining active NT 084 or 087 numbers is to play an announcement informing callers to hang up and redial the new 034 or 037 number then I haven't got a problem with that. Such an arrangement may need to remain in place for many months - perhaps a full year where people renew annually.

Bonus points if the announcement is free-to-caller. Most telecoms providers can arrange this faciility. This also supposes that all of these old 084 and 087 numbers are no longer advertised anywhere, and that playing the announcement is for the benefit of members who referred to old paperwork when looking for the number.

This is the position that DWP currently finds itself in. As their old 084 and 087 numbers are no longer advertised, all of the issues surrounding the declaration of the Service Charge have also gone away. HMRC have moved to the final stage where dialling any of their old 084 or 087 numbers results in a Number Unavailable tone.

The NT has many places where 084x numbers are still advertised and without declaration of charges. Such as here on their complaints page: https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/article-1356395773175/ This may also break the laws on treatment of disabled people as the Minicom number is only given as 0844.

You can add to that National Trust Holiday Cottages (from the contact us list provided by National Trust) which NT gives an 0870 number for, and the NTHC website gives an 0344 number for...  NTHC also seem to have kept an 0844 number for the brochure line.

The mind boggles....

Looks like the NT web people need to have a have a good trawl through their website to sort out this mess. I'd guess they've done a belated and halfbaked conversion to 03 numbers

In theory they are allowed to use an 0844 number for their brochure line but only if they declare the charges correctly. Which they don't. Otherwise that page has a mix of 03 numbers (good) and 01 numbers marked as "overseas and mobile friendly". Also good, because in a few cases 03 numbers may not be properly connected/charged when calling from overseas. Though irrelevant to say "mobile friendly" thereby perpetuating the myth that 03 numbers can be more expensive than 01/02 under some conditions.

Worst of all is the diability discrimination by retaining 0844 for Typetalk.

allegro wrote on Oct 16^th, 2015 at 6:21am:

In theory they are allowed to use an 0844 number for their brochure line but only if they declare the charges correctly. Which they don't.

One point that their marketing people need to be on top of is that if the telephone call to order a brochure incurs a Service Charge, the brochure can no longer be described as being 'free'.

Shame on Time Out: https://timeout.subscribeonline.co.uk/

While they are allowed to use an 0844 for a sales line they haven't declared the charges. I receive TO by post and the contact number on the wrapper is the same 0844 number. In this case it's a support line and so is not allowed to be 0844.

This is the only alternative number listed for Time Out subs here on SayNo: 0800 0680050

I have emailed them as follows and received an automated acknowledgement.


Quote:

Dear Sirs On your contact page https://timeout.subscribeonline.co.uk/contact-us you are using an 0844 number. The same number is also used on the address sheet of my copy of Time Out that has been delivered by post. Use of such numbers for customer support is now illegal. Under the Consumer Contracts regulations you are not allowed to use 084x and 087x numbers at all for any form of customer support: http://www.fairtelecoms.org.uk/consumer-contracts-regulations.html Where such numbers are allowed (sales lines for example) since the 1st of July you have been required to state the call charges wherever 084x and 087x numbers are used. See here for examples: http://www.fairtelecoms.org.uk/uk-calling-clear-call-rates.html I hope this is simply an oversight by Time Out and will be corrected very soon.

I recently bought some shoes from a Clarks shop. On the till receipt there's 0844 499 1724 without any information on call charges. Googling the number gives the correct branch:

http://www.clarks.co.uk/storelocator?storeid=0000001724

The store locator on their website leads to the same page which does have the correct info on call charges. Whether they are allowed to use an 0844 number is another matter. Sales OK, customer service not OK. On receipt it must be customer service so not OK.

Googling the shop with clarks finchley phone gives a normal 020 number. 020 8445 0649

So all a bit inconsistent, as is this page which abuses 0844 but also has ordinary 01 numbers: http://www.clarks.co.uk/contactus

I'm calling into the shop again soon so will remind the manager about inappropriate use of 0844 numbers.

Since 13 June 2014, Regulation 41 of the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013 requires an 01, 02, 03 or 080 number for any post sales helpline.

In this case, declaration of call costs is irrelevant, they should not be using 084 or 087 numbers.

allegro wrote on Oct 16^th, 2015 at 6:21am:

Looks like the NT web people need to have a have a good trawl through their website to sort out this mess. I'd guess they've done a belated and halfbaked conversion to 03 numbers In theory they are allowed to use an 0844 number for their brochure line but only if they declare the charges correctly. Which they don't. Otherwise that page has a mix of 03 numbers (good) and 01 numbers marked as "overseas and mobile friendly". Also good, because in a few cases 03 numbers may not be properly connected/charged when calling from overseas. Though irrelevant to say "mobile friendly" thereby perpetuating the myth that 03 numbers can be more expensive than 01/02 under some conditions. Worst of all is the diability discrimination by retaining 0844 for Typetalk.

The NT has done a big ovehaul of its website. The result is pretty hideous, a triumph of design over substance. The only number I can now find is the main 0344 contact so praise due for belatedly sorting that out. They haven't redone their cottages site (yet?) which still displays the 0844 number for the brochure line. Strongly suspect this is an oversight as the main numbers are 0344.
https://www.nationaltrustholidays.org.uk/request-a-brochure/

They do seem to have missed that completely...

It also appears here: http://www.nationaltrustholidays.org.uk/contact-us/

"Our 0844 numbers are charged at 5p per minute from BT landlines and 0344 numbers are charged at local rate."

Seriously?

They appear to not have even the most basic understanding and need to read this:
http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/the-cost-of-contacting-08-and-03-telephone-numbers


A distinct 'local rate' ceased to exist in 2004. Both Ofcom and ASA issued a note about this in 2005.

All they need is:

Calls to 03 numbers are inclusive from landlines and mobiles else charged at 'geographic rate' - the same as 01 and 02 numbers.

Calls to 0844 number incur an Xp per minute Service Charge plus your phone provider's Access Charge.


If people call a number with a Service Charge to get the brochure, there can be no claim that the brochure is "free".

It would be far better if they changed all their numbers to 03.

Oh dear NT.

I have just e-mailed them about the 0844 number, and await a reply.

If and when I get one I will also point that out to them!  :)

Ian01 wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 9:59am:

"Our 0844 numbers are charged at 5p per minute from BT landlines and 0344 numbers are charged at local rate." Seriously? They appear to not have even the most basic understanding and need to read this: http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/the-cost-of-contacting-08-and-03-telephone-numbers A distinct 'local rate' ceased to exist in 2004. Both Ofcom and ASA issued a note about this in 2005. All they need is: Calls to 03 numbers are inclusive from landlines and mobiles else charged at 'geographic rate' - the same as 01 and 02 numbers. Calls to 0844 number incur an Xp per minute Service Charge plus your phone provider's Access Charge. If people call a number with a Service Charge to get the brochure, there can be no claim that the brochure is "free". It would be far better if they changed all their numbers to 03.

Apologies Ian, I appeared to comment before I had seen the full extent of your post.  I wholeheartedly agree.

:)

EDIT: Would you believe it.... just called 0344 800 2072 and it works! It's the brochure line....

A number of current content pages have these problems...

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&filter=0&q=site:nationaltrustholidays.org.uk+0844
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&filter=0&q=site:nationaltrustholidays.org.uk+0845

Another one for the hall of shame.

http://www.tunstall.co.uk/contact

Although an 01 number is prominent they are still using several 0844 numbers.

I just wanted to report a new and particularly disgraceful entry for the Hall of Shame in the shape of the Out of Hours medical emergency number for Leaders In Oncology Care of Harley Street, otherwise known as The LOC.

My mother has been receiving exceeding financially profitable (for the owners of this establishment who prefer to go under the UK codename of HCA Healthcare Group whilst not seeming to like to draw to attention to the fact that this in fact stands for HospitalCare of America) treatment for nearly three years now but sadly the cancer she is suffering from has now reached an acute, and seemingly life threatening stage so only recently have I had to turn to a credit card sized plastic card containing an out of hours emergency contact number to obtain medical advice and possibly also arrange emergency hospital admission.

You can naturally therefore imagine my alarm and dismay on finding that this card actually contains the out of hours emergency number of 0845 458 0097 and when I instead first tried calling 0345 458 0097 (which as we know has been pre-reserved for LOC/HCA to switch over to) unfortunately found that number was unobtainable.

Fortunately I did have access to a Post Office Homephone line that gives free calls to 0845 nunbers at the weekend and so used this line to call the 0845 number (in order to avoid no doubt massive per minute charges with Virgin Mobile that would also fall outside my 2,500 minutes per month bundle to 01/02/03 and 075 to 079 UK mobile numbers).

The line in fact turns out to go through to a call centre in Newfoundland, Canada manned by some of the most emotion lacking North Americans you have ever encountered (this possibly seems in some way correlated with being located in a remote often heavily frozen wilderness area) who say that the choice of an 0845 number is nothing at all to do with them (passing the blame squarely back at their client - LOC/HCA).  They did however say that if I called the closed LOC switchboard number on 020 7317 2500 there was an option there to reach their call centre although it might be slower and more complicated to use.

Obviously I also consulted saynoto0870.com's geographic alternatives phone number directory and so  was very disappointed indeed to find no alternative to 0845 458 0097 listed.  Although I have now remedied that error by creating a new listing for LOC - Leaders In Oncology Care (but I note that a search for LOC alone does not however work properly due to strange limitations in searching short name strings on this website, where it is not possible to only match the first three characters in the string being searched) the fact remains that it is extraordinarily annoying that Hospitalcare of America apparently has so little regard for its UK Harley Street patients and/or relatives welfare (in an emergency) that it is happy to see their mobile phone bills rooked with charges of £1 per minute or more if people call the 0845 number (as they are very likely to do in the emotional panic of either they or a relative being very seriously unwell).

In the circumstances I think it is utterly despicable that Hospitalcare of America has so little regard for its patients and their welfare and/or that they seem to feel so immune from complying with pesky local UK regulations (rather in the manner of say Uber) that they have still not managed to complete the easy task of switching this line to its 03 equivalent.  I also have a few other issues with Hospitalcare of America in terms of repeatedly and seemingly unjustifiably over optimistic projections of the likely medical outcome of my mother's cancer treatment with them but those will have to wait for resolution in various other venues.

For now I will confine my efforts here to the matter of the disgraceful continued misuse by LOC and HCA Healthcare Group of the 0845 number, clearly indicating further systemic Compliance failings within the HCA Healthcare Group Operation. :o >:( :'(

Isn't it illegal to use 0845 for anything but sales? Surely this is Customer Service,  therefore cannot be used.

.

derrick wrote on Oct 1^st, 2017 at 6:19pm:

Isn't it illegal to use 0845 for anything but sales? Surely this is Customer Service,  therefore cannot be used.

Illegal only mean it contravenes the UK implementation (by Statutory Instrument) of the EU Consumer Rights Directive, hence giving me the right to take an action in the County Court for financial loss in terms of the extra call cost.  Which of course I'm not going to do as I avoided paying to call their ripoff premium rate number.

No doubt the Fat Cat Harley Street Health Scammers will claim that they were far too busy signing off the use of the latest over priced and ultimately patient poisoning chemotherapy drug in order for health insurance companies to be suitably bankrupted in order to have time to worry about a few quid here and there that their customers are being ripped off by on any emergency health advice phone calls.

Also HCA Healthcare Group always play the "You Need The Patient's Permission To Complain" card to try and obstruct any form of complaint against them by other friends or relatives who try to raise any concerns about their actions. :o >:( >:( >:(

Anyway so ok this one really got me because here my relative is almost dieing and yet still the 084/7 business telephony abusers are at it trying to profit from my elderly relative's extreme ill health.

As to the rest of our fight any victories we may claim to have scored are very much pyrrhic in nature as BT Group will have recouped all of its lost profits on 084/7 scamming from its continued outrageous and entirely unjustified increases in landline phone rental costs.

Shaming for Bosch and Neff. Was in John Lewis today and there were labels on their dishwashers that gave 0844 numbers for aftersales service. These appliances hadn't been sitting on the shop floor for years. It's about time they reprinted their labels to give their current numbers which are not 084x.

allegro wrote on Oct 26^th, 2017 at 1:50pm:

Shaming for Bosch and Neff. Was in John Lewis today and there were labels on their dishwashers that gave 0844 numbers for aftersales service. These appliances hadn't been sitting on the shop floor for years. It's about time they reprinted their labels to give their current numbers which are not 084x.

Both appear to have a feedback section on their respective websites.  I will send some feedback to them tomorrow.  :)

EDIT: Feedback has now been provided to both with regards to the labels.  Unsurprisingly both brands are owned by BSH Group along with a few other major brands.

Shaming for Yamaha and, surprisingly, Which.

Which magazine gives lists of contact details for various manufacturers of equipment they review. I was surprised to see an 0844 number listed for Yamaha, and without a not as to cost of calling.

Which were simply quoting Yamaha themselves:
https://uk.yamaha.com/en/support/contacts/

Illegal use of 0844 and incorrect statement of call cost.

allegro wrote on Nov 20^th, 2017 at 8:17am:

Shaming for Yamaha and, surprisingly, Which. Which magazine gives lists of contact details for various manufacturers of equipment they review. I was surprised to see an 0844 number listed for Yamaha, and without a not as to cost of calling. Which were simply quoting Yamaha themselves: https://uk.yamaha.com/en/support/contacts/ Illegal use of 0844 and incorrect statement of call cost.

They actually state "calls from a BT landline are charged at a local rate".

Note RoI get an 01 number.

.

Another company who should know better. Loaf, a furniture maker who advertise extensively in London.

http://loaf.com/

0845 number (which might be acceptable as a sales line) without any mention of call charges.

Businesses using premium rate 084 or 087 numbers make callers pay up to 62p or 68p per minute just so they can benefit from revenue of about 5p or 10p per minute.

When used for sales lines, the message that is conveyed is "don't buy from us, shop somewhere else".

Just adding a new entry to the Hall of Shame for Link Asset Services (formerly Capita Share Registrars) who are registrars for loads of major companies and are still listing an 0871 number as their main contact number for UK customers to call on their website at https://www.linkassetservices.com/contact-us and although they list an 03 alternative it is a long way down the page and stated only to be for callers from overseas who they advise to call the 03 number.  They then list an 020 number (which would be the cheapest reliable way to make calls at the lowest cost from outside the UK and especially outside the EU where Ofcom General Condition 17 re charging 03 numbers at geographic rates does not apply) but say that number is only for business callers.  Yet you would have thought that businesses would be best placed to afford the extortionate cost of up to 77p per minute on a mobile of calling an 0871 number.

See my dedicated and newly started thread on this issue at https://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1567677334 for more information and discussion on this topic.

Yet another shame:  https://www.davonport.com/contact-us/

This kitchen company brazenly uses 0845 numbers.