I have just started a complaint/request re the ETS stating on their website; -

http://www.employmenttribunals.gov.uk/general/contact_us.htm#1  that; -

Phone: +44 (0)845 795 9775 Minicom: +44 (0)845 757 3722 All calls are charged at local rate.

I have received a reply saying; -

"This is to thank you for bringing to our attention the references to the Employment Tribunals enquiry line number 0845 7959775 stating that calls are charged at local rate.  Your complaint is currently being investigated and you will be provided with a full explanation on conclusion of the investigation."

I have also asked for the geo number via the FOI 2000

After acknowledging his e-mail and again requesting the geo number, I have just received this response; -

"Further to your email, the underlying geographical number for 0845 795 9775 is 01284 701284."


So if it is not already there, this number can be added to the database.

There is one number in the data base and that is for Cardiff venue, there are others relating to different venues on the page linked to in the OP, but are for specific requests for those venues, the number I have obtained is for the public enquiry line.

derrick wrote on Aug 15^th, 2008 at 4:07pm:

After acknowledging his e-mail and again requesting the geo number, I have just received this response; - "Further to your email, the underlying geographical number for 0845 795 9775 is 01284 701284." So if it is not already there, this number can be added to the database. There is one number in the data base and that is for Cardiff venue, there are others relating to different venues on the page linked to in the OP, but are for specific requests for those venues, the number I have obtained is for the public enquiry line.

I have now removed the Cardiff one and replaced it with the "Enquiry Line" one. The link to the page giving offices' direct numbers still remains.

Has anyone yet managed to obtain a geo number for ACAS? NGN 08457 474747

More info on this thread; - http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1126521426/5#5

Maybe an FOI request might obtain the geo number?

Derrick I hate to point this out but I see that the Information Tribunal is now listing an 0845 number as its main point of contact.

Has this changed since we were dealing with them over NHS Direct?  It surely is the final insult that the tribunal service through whom we were complaining about NHS Direct is now itself using an 0845 number itself.  I cannot see you and loddon having let this go or not having made a big point of this at the Tribunal hearing if they had been using an 0845 number themselves at that stage?

I am sure you will now no doubt enjoy subjecting them to the third degree regarding the processes by which they have come to start using an 0845 number despite the advice of the COI and Sir David Varney. :o >:( :'(

Oddly enough the Lands Tribunal who I am still dealing with over the service charge dispute on my apartment continue to use an 020 London number.  See www.landstribunal.gov.uk/GenericPages/contactus.htm  Yet they are all supposed to be part of the same Tribunals Service at www.tribunals.gov.uk   Also the Contact Us number at www.tribunals.gov.uk/contactus.aspx is an 020 number and not an 0845 number.  You might like to try putting all these points to the Employment and Information Tribunals re their 0845 number.

You might also like to refer them to the Department of Constitutional Affairs March 2001 document - Tribunals For Users, One System, One Service.  It seems that it clearly is not One System and One Service when they can't even ensure any consistency in the type of phone numbers used to contact them. :o >:(

Derrick,

Out of the 25 Tribunals that fall under the umbrella of the government's Tribunals Service at www.tribunals.gov.uk you might like to note the following other Tribunals that are using 0845 or 0870.

These are as follows:-

The Charity Tribunal (0845)

See www.charity.tribunals.gov.uk/GenericPages/contactus.htm

Gambling Appeals Tribunal (0845)

See www.gamblingappealstribunal.gov.uk/GenericPages/contactus.htm

Gender Recognition Panel (0845)

See www.grp.gov.uk/GenericPages/contactus.htm

Mental Health Tribunal (0845)

See www.mhrt.org.uk/GenericPages/contactus.htm

Proscribed Organisations Appeal Commission (0845)

See www.siac.tribunals.gov.uk/poac/GenericPages/contactus.htm

Special Education Needs and Disability Tribunal (0870)

See www.sendist.gov.uk/GenericPages/contactUs.htm

Special Immigration Appeals Commission (0845)

See www.siac.tribunals.gov.uk/GenericPages/contactus.htm

So 9 out of 25 Tribunals in the government's tribunals service use 0845 or 0870 phone numbers instead of geographic phone numbers.  So clearly their aim to ensure consistency in the Tribunals Service experience is going nowhere fast. >:(

The ICO did change their number whilst we were going through the channels, I have a letter from them dated 05-03-07 which has the geo number 01625 545700,the next letter,(and subsequent ones), dated 09-08-07 has the 0845 630 6060, although the geo number does still work, and their fax number remains the same geo number; - 01625 524510.

I do seem to remember having a phone conversation when I mentioned the change to 0845, but that was only on the phone and I cannot remember the detail of that call, the geo number is in our database.

If I get time I might email them re the 0845 number.

derrick wrote on Aug 16^th, 2008 at 9:54am:

If I get time I might email them re the 0845 number.

I'm thinking along the lines of one near identical email to all these Tribunals but just sent individually to each one and not making it look as though it is a campaign or petition letter to the whole lot of them.

Along with the Ombudsman services these are very good people to target over their failure to either use 01/02 or 03 as in the line of work they are in they really don't have a leg to stand on about using revenue sharing numbers against the advice of the COI, Ofcom and Sir David Varney.

They also tend to investigate complaints properly and each of them will go back to Ofcom for advice thus further putting pressure on Ofcom to do more publicity to these organisations about the use of 084/7 being inappropriate and the need to switch to 03.

Looks like they must be doing something about the website, because when you click on the link in my OP it now says; - "Service Unavailable"

Even Googling employment tribunal brings up  "Service Unavailable" for every service!

derrick wrote on Aug 20^th, 2008 at 2:59pm:

Looks like they must be doing something about the website, because when you click on the link in my OP it now says; - "Service Unavailable" Even Googling employment tribunal brings up  "Service Unavailable" for every service!

On the other hand it could just be that due to the August summer holidays they didn't have anyone around who knew how to fix a broken website today. ;)

NGMsGhost wrote on Aug 20^th, 2008 at 9:06pm:

derrick wrote on Aug 20th, 2008 at 2:59pm: Looks like they must be doing something about the website, because when you click on the link in my OP it now says; - "Service Unavailable" Even Googling employment tribunal brings up  "Service Unavailable" for every service! On the other hand it could just be that due to the August summer holidays they didn't have anyone around who knew how to fix a broken website today. ;)

You could be right, as it is now back up, but still stating; - " Phone: +44 (0)845 795 9775 Minicom: +44 (0)845 757 3722 All calls are charged at local rate. "

Re my reply #1 above,  I have received the following e-mail from the employment tribunal; -

Further to the email sent to you by Mr Edwards in response to your enquiry about the local telephone number for the Employment Tribunal Enquiry Line.    I misread the telephone number from our list before giving the number to Mr Edwards.  Please accept my apologies for this and any inconvenience caused by my mistake.

The correct number is 01284 762279

Yours sincerely

Chris Kerry



So could someone correct the details?

derrick wrote on Sep 12^th, 2008 at 3:20pm:

So could someone correct the details?

I've updated the entry.

derrick wrote on Sep 12^th, 2008 at 3:20pm:

Re my reply #1 above,  I have received the following e-mail from the employment tribunal; - Further to the email sent to you by Mr Edwards in response to your enquiry about the local telephone number for the Employment Tribunal Enquiry Line.    I misread the telephone number from our list before giving the number to Mr Edwards.  Please accept my apologies for this and any inconvenience caused by my mistake. The correct number is 01284 762279 Yours sincerely Chris Kerry So could someone correct the details?

There's more to that than he's letting on.  After nearly a month, he mysteriously realises his 'misreading' error (allegedly having read 01284 762279 as 01284 701284)?  Difficult do that, the numbers aren't even similar.

Heinz wrote on Sep 12^th, 2008 at 6:52pm:

derrick wrote on Sep 12th, 2008 at 3:20pm: Re my reply #1 above,  I have received the following e-mail from the employment tribunal; - Further to the email sent to you by Mr Edwards in response to your enquiry about the local telephone number for the Employment Tribunal Enquiry Line.    I misread the telephone number from our list before giving the number to Mr Edwards.  Please accept my apologies for this and any inconvenience caused by my mistake. The correct number is 01284 762279 Yours sincerely Chris Kerry So could someone correct the details? There's more to that than he's letting on.  After nearly a month, he mysteriously realises his 'misreading' error (allegedly having read 01284 762279 as 01284 701284)?  Difficult do that, the numbers aren't even similar.

Knowing that it is a weekend and no one is going to answer, I just tried the numbers.

01284 701284 just keeps ringing without any form of answer.

01284 762279, has an answerphone message;  - Thank you for calling the Employment Tribunal Enquiry Line, our office hours are Mon-Fri 9-5, please call again during those hours.

Then some more about the web site, so looks like the amended number is the correct one.

At least they supplied it without much trouble.

Received the following e-mail from ET on 19th September, but part fo it was obliterated by a thick black line obscuring some of the text, thanks to SCV for deciphering it for me; -

Email: *******************

19 September 2008

Dear Mr ******,

Employment Tribunals public enquiry telephone number enquiry.

Thank you for your emails of 14 August and 15 September addressed to Peter Edwards, Tribunals ServiceOperational Manager,  Employment Tribunals, Bury St Edmunds.  I apologise for the length of time taken to respond, our investigations have taken longer than expected.

Your emails have been forwarded to the Customer Feedback team to investigate your concerns.  

Thank you for bringing to our attention, the fact that calls made to the 0845 number are charged at a higher and not local call rate, as stated on the Employment Tribunal website.

I am aware that Mr Edwards acknowledged receipt of your email on 15 August and provided you with a local telephone number for the Employment Tribunal Bury St Edmunds office.  Mr Chris Kerry sent a further email on 10 September updating the local telephone number which Mr Edwards provided to 01284 762279.

I can confirm that reference to the 0845 number being charged at the local call rate has been removed from the website.  However, the 0845 telephone number will remain in use because it provides the customer with important information about availability of Employment Tribunal services.

Employment Tribunal leaflets are being amended to remove any reference to calls charged at the local call rate when using the 0845 number.

I hope my reply has been helpful.


Yours sincerely

Anju Sinha

Customer Feedback team


I replied yesterday at 12-06 p.m. with the following, and up to now no response; -

Dear anju,

Thank you for your response and the removal of the misleading term re "local rate" from your website, however there is no reason to continue the use of an 0845 revenue sharing number costing 20p per minute from a pay phone and up to 40p per minute from a mobile phone.

COI and CAP have informed Government departments not to use these numbers unless showing equal prominence to a geographical number, or to adopt the 03 numbers that have been available for more than 12 months now and cost the same for the caller as an 01/02 number and are included in phone package inclusive minutes unlike 0845 numbers that are not and have to be paid for on top of the callers package.

Your statement in your e-mail; - "However, the 0845 telephone number will remain in use because it provides the customer with important information about availability of Employment Tribunal services." does not hold water as the information you mention can be provided with 01/02 numbers and certainly with 03 numbers.

I can supply you with any information that you require to back up everything I have said, just let me know.


Yours sincerely

Derrick,

You surely need to ask him why he thinks these important announcements cannot be provided on a geographic phone number and why the majority of the Tribunals in the government Tribunals service are able to function perfectly adequately using geographic phone numbers.

Also you should point out to him that all the third party announcement and IVR features of an 0845 number can be provided by their current telecoms provider if they switch to using an 03 number instead.

You really want to stop continuing to communicate with a company line follower like Anju and instead address your query to the top banana at the Employment Tribunal.  I believe this is called the Tribunal Manager judging (not a judicial person but an admin person) judging from my dealings with the Lands Tribunal (who mercifully use only a geographic London phone number despite their many other failings as an organisation).

Received the following today; -

6 November 2008
 
Dear Mr ******

Thank you for your emails of 19 and 20 September.  I am sorry for the length of time I have taken to respond, however my enquiries took longer than expected.

The Tribunals Service were unaware that the tariffs for 0845 numbers had changed and I am grateful to you for bringing this to our attention. As a result of your correspondence all references on our website and in our publications, to the number being charged at a local rate have been, or, are in the process of being removed.

Although, the Central Office of Information (COI) guidance on the establishment of contact centres refers to the use of 0845 telephone numbers, their guidance is advisory rather than mandatory. At present there are no plans to change the Employment Tribunal Public Enquiry Line telephone number because the number is widely publicised and has been in the public domain for many years.

Yours sincerely

Anju Sinha

Customer Feedback team