I have been a lurker using the great service this site used to provide for a long time and telling all my friends and family about it as I thought it was a great idea. But now you have broken the website. What is good about 03xx numbers? On my NTL land line and on my pre-dial call provider these numbers cost 8p per minute. Geographical numbers cost 0.5p per minute on pre-dial and so do 0845 nmbers. 03xx numbers then cost 16 times as much as 0845 numbers and you are listing these as decent numbers in your hall of fame! The site has died a death as a useful service. It was great having it around while you saved people money and stopped the corporate extortion and your reasons for making this strange decision to promote these 03xx numbers may only be guessed at. I and my friends and family seriously hope you reconsider this strange turn of events. Once again thanks for the years of satisfaction and money saving you provided.

-- mr feedback ex happy user

EDIT: Actually I was mistaken the 03xx numbers cost 1p per minute on pre-dial, twice as much as 0845 so my complaint about their being good numbers still stands but to a much lesser degree.

EDIT 2: They do cost 8p per minute with Virgin Media and are being advertised as costing the same as geographic numbers. Who is the party breaking the law here since there is a clear deception - either Virgin Media should charge them the same as geographic numbers or companies should stop claiming they cost the same as geographic numbers. It's the 08xx hustle all over again except by using an override provider you only have to pay double the amount you can get geographical calls for. It's still a complete lie that they cost the same as geographic numbers why does nobody call them on this...

With BT 03 numbers cost the same as 01 & 02 numbers, in other words they cost nothing, as these numbers are included in the package that you get with BT. Also these numbers again come under the 'free calls' that most mobile providers with their packages.

03 numbers, I believe should be charged the same as 01 & 02 numbers with other providers. I am sure Dave or others will provide more information.

Any provider of telecommunications services is obliged to comply with General Condition 17 as amended by Ofcom - see here http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/numbering03/statement.

The requirement is summarised as follows.


Quote:

call tariffs and call discounts will be the same as calls to geographic (01 or 02) numbers. This applies to all call minutes, including ones that are part of the customer’s inclusive minutes

Any breach of this requirement should be reported to Ofcom formally, although if the details are published here, relevant Ofcom personnel would be likely to informed directly.

Previous reports of similar cases have been resolved without the need for enforcement action, as they were found to be due to administrative failures.

There may be rogue providers of telephone services. I hope that attention will be directed at their roguery rather than at this website.

(N.B. this message was being prepared whilst posting #2 was made.)

OK thanks for putting me straight. The override provider that says it charges 1p per minute for these calls always says "that number is engaged" and it's not true. So myself and everyone else on Virgin Media is stuck paying SIXTEEN TIMES the amount I pay for geographic calls currently because I cannot find an override provider which will put these calls through. I doubt override providers are obliged to put these calls through? So it seems that even though it's great for people on BT, it's still a travesty to everyone else. Even if Virgin Media are obliged to put through the call at the same rate as geographic calls (and I'm about to call them and find out how much their geographic calls are), their calls are more expensive than override providers.

So in fact, this is still a hustle that forces everyone to pay more except BT customers WITH INCLUSIVE MINUTES. The fact those circumstances are caused by an interplay between different companies doesn't change this and therefore 0303 is still a hustle which will cause large numbers of people to end up paying more. So big business wins in the end. I'd love to change to BT but that would end up costing me more than the discounted telephone I get from Virgin for having Broadband with them. How many people in the UK are on the Virgin combined packages? 0303 numbers can ONLY end up costing them more at present than it did before.

So I believe you are looking at it too simplistically when you say these are good numbers even though the intentions are honorable.

If you look here...http://allyours.virginmedia.com/websales/product.do?id=3001  You will see that indeed Virgin Media do include 03 numbers in their package. I am not too sure where you are getting your information from.

mr_feedback wrote on Nov 5^th, 2008 at 3:02pm:

So I believe you are looking at it too simplistically when you say these are good numbers even though the intentions are honorable.

Virgin Media charges are published online at: [url=www.virginmedia.com/callcosts[/url]]www.virginmedia.com/callcosts[/url]

Only BT is required to allow all telephone numbers to be dialled. The override provider therefore does not have to carry calls to any numbers it doesn't wish to. In reality the vast majority of providers carry most or all numbers because if they didn't, people wouldn't use them.

There has been discussion on here in the past about some providers not charging 03 as per 01/02 and those appear to have been rectified after notifying Ofcom.

The 03xx numbers are really what the Say no to 0870 campaign has been fighting for. If organisations wish to use a non-geographical number then they should have the option to do so without disadvantaging the caller. This of course requires telephone call retailers to comply with the rules.

It may be worth pointing out that a provider who does not allow access to 03 numbers is already denying access to many Police Services (for non-emergencies) as well as out-hours health services, charities and other public services, including Ofcom! Many of these still offer alternative geographic or 0845 numbers as part of transition.

It is hoped that many more will be moving onto 03, and in time these alternatives will be switched off.

Any serious telephone service provider would surely not wish to deny access to these services!

mr_feedback, what is the dial through provider you are using for geographical calls?

Am I right in saying that this provider does not allow 03 calls and that you have to revert to calling them via Virgin Media?

This is ridiculous, everywhere on the Virgin Media website where it mentions geographical or inclusive calls says clearly "01, 02 or 03". Either this user is on some sort of legacy tariff, is being ripped off by Virgin, is simply mistaken about call prices on his bill, or else is just a troll.

Incidentally, I thought Virgin blocked access to most dial-through providers, or is that just a myth?

sherbert: It says they include them in the free weekend calls yes.

jrawle/sherbert: I got my information by phoning 150 on my virgin phone and asking "how much does it cost to call numbers starting with 03?". I was told "8p per minute". Which is more than it costs for geographic calls. Maybe the information is wrong, last time I asked virgin to send me a fully itemized bill they said sure and it never arrived. But then again Virgin have failed to do what they said they would 90% of the time I've been with them anyway.

jrawle: Virgin block access to dial-through numbers on the short ~5 digit codes but allow you to use them via 0800 xxxxxx and 0844/0871 xxxxxx numbers. This is slightly more expensive than calling from the short codes as virgin charges the dial-through for connecting the call, but unless you make hours of calls a month this is more than compensated for by the lower line rental.

Dave: Thanks for call charges link. It does say the 03 numbers are charged like geographic calls as you say they should be, that's not what their customer service agent told me though. I'd be inclined to believe their web page seeing as their customer service has given me misinformation plenty of times in the past. You are also correct in that I can't use either of my override dialers to call 03xx numbers. The two providers I use are 18185 for their cheap rates to 08xx numbers (this pretends I can call 03xx numbers but always reacts by saying the number is engaged when it isn't). And 0844 calls for their cheap landline calls and they just refuse to connect 03xx numbers.

So even if Virgin do charge the same rate for 03 rather than the 8p a minute I was told (making the calls 4p a minute),  this is still EIGHT TIMES more expensive per minute than the 0.5p a minute 18185 charges for calls to 0845 numbers.

I do understand that it's not the fault of the web site or the companies using 03xx numbers from your putting me straight though, obviously the problem is the override providers not allowing access to 03xx numbers. I'm not sure why that is (hopefully just inertia and not say the telecomms companies charging override providers more to connect 03xx calls) but it's currently costing me more money than when the companies I called used 0845 numbers, which I could get for 0.5p per minute just like geographic calls cost me during the week.

Perhaps you have some suggestions? I will write to all the override providers on moneysavingexpert.com and also give the forum users there a nudge to see if anyone else is getting screwed by these new numbers at present and wants to write to the override providers. I hope you have succeed in your goals and the extra expense this is causing me are just growing pains.

Were they quoting mobile prices instead of land line prices? This could be the cause of the confusion.

Anyway I know you said that it would not be cost effective to leave Virgin, however my BT land line and Broad band with the odd calls that I get charged for, which is usually less than £1 a quarter, as the 01, 02 & 03 numbers are included comes to about £75 a quarter, which is about £6 a week and for that I do not get any hassle that you seem to be having. Worth a thought.

sherbet I will be moving soon it would be ill-advised to leave virgin right now and get tied into a new contract. I do pay a bit less than you but considering the headaches involved, no I'd never recommend anyone else sign up to virgin and will definitely get a BT line later due to the fact they actually know what they are doing.

It's a shame as cable internet is slightly more responsive than ADSL, and a pity that Virgin are allowed to have the monopoly on it since they are worryingly incompetent.

You shouldn't believe anything Virgin customer services tell you, they are useless. This just shows that they don't bother to look for the information you ask for, but make it up on the spot. Can't you look at a summary of the calls you've made online to determine their cost?

I don't see why you use the fact that, as you claim, 03 calls are "eight times as expensive" as 0845 calls as a reason not to give 03 numbers as an alternative to 0870. Are you expecting us to find 0845 numbers as alternatives to all the 0870s? (In some cases, there are actually 0845 alternatives.)

0845 numbers are now cheaper than 03 for BT customers in the daytime too. However, this is not a reason to criticise 03 numbers. As a consumer, you have a choice which phone package you take. You could choose one that gives you inclusive 03 numbers at all times. You will not find this for 084 or 087 numbers - they are totally uncompetitive due to revenue sharing, in particular 0844 and 087x. That's what we've been complaining about all alone, and 03 numbers do address this. If you choose to use telephone services that don't allow you to call 03 numbers cheaply during the daytime, that's up to you.

I think 18185 must  have a problem with 03 numbers, because i recently dialled an 03 number from a BT Line  using the 18185 access code and it claimed network busy, i dialled it using the 0808 access code it said it was busy,i then tried it via the 0208 access code it said it was busy. Yet when i rang it direct via BT and O2 it answered straight away.

oldharryrocks wrote on Nov 5^th, 2008 at 8:20pm:

I think 18185 must  have a problem with 03 numbers, because i recently dialled an 03 number from a BT Line  using the 18185 access code and it claimed network busy, i dialled it using the 0808 access code it said it was busy,i then tried it via the 0208 access code it said it was busy. Yet when i rang it direct via BT and O2 it answered straight away.

Is this just a case of them not updating their systems to recognise the new code? There's no reason why it should cost them more to connect 03 calls than 01/02, is there?

mr_feedback wrote on Nov 5^th, 2008 at 5:27pm:

this is still EIGHT TIMES more expensive per minute than the 0.5p a minute 18185 charges for calls to 0845 numbers.

If you use the 18185 Cable/Mobile 0808 FREEphone access number . They state on website 0845 calls cost 3p a minute weekdays and 1p at weekends.

http://www.18185.co.uk/mobilerates.php

Yet they only charge 0.5p a minute.

I would go by the printed information or that on the website rather than customer services. Clearly the person you spoke to wasn't properly briefed and/or didn't check.

I've just called the BBC Children in Need 0345 733 2233 number from my BT landline using 18185's prefix, 18185 and it is network busy (that's an engaged tone with a long tone and short tone) and the 020 dial-through number and a female voice says that the number is busy. It has been possible to call 03 numbers via 18185.

I don't know how you pay 0.5p/min to 0845 during the daytime. I think any provider offering such a rate is likely to be making a loss.


As mentioned above, only BT must provide access to all numbers. A year ago there were mainstream providers which didn't allow access to 03 numbers. It was a case of the chicken and the egg. Should we have encouraged organisations to use 03 numbers or telephone companies to carry these numbers? Now the situation is somewhat different. The vast majority of providers allow 03 numbers to be dialled.

Unfortunately, it has been reported that 18185 and other Finarea operated services don't have a very good customer services. There is no telephone number and you aren't forced to get a response by email.

The only thing I can suggest is that you send them an email and ask what is going on with 03 numbers.

jrawle "call inclusive" packages are not free, you pay a higher cost for the service than if there were no inclusive calls so if you don't do enough calling to require a call inclusive deal, and until these 03 numbers started coming up you'd have had to spend well over 15 hours on the phone per month to beat £5 line rental and 0.5p per minute with free weekend calls before BT's £10.50 a month was a good deal (and even then you can get 5p per call flat with 0844 calls on BT, that doesn't apply to 03xx so it's still a bad deal). I don't, but I do spend 5 or 6 hours on the month to companies who have now changed to these 03xx numbers which are MORE EXPENSIVE THAN IT IS FOR ME TO CALL GEOGRAPHICAL NUMBERS. And it really was that simple, that was my whole complaint - that they are not the same as geographical numbers.

Now I know you don't agree as 03xx are not more expensive for YOU to call than geographical numbers. And that's OK. Obviously the party is over for me and I will have to find another £40 a year and change telephone companies. It's not the end of the world. If you had listed GEOGRAPHICAL NUMBERS as alternatives to 03xx numbers I would not have this problem but really what I took offense at was because I didn't understand what 03xx numbers were intended to be when I made the first post having just been told they cost 8p a minute; and I'm still (somewhat) put out the numbers are supposed to be an end to the rip off of 08xx numbers and THEY COST A NUMBER OF PEOPLE INCLUDING ME MORE RIGHT NOW. So it's like a big joke, a return of the non-geographic numbers.

But I get that 03xx numbers are what you wanted all along and that's fine. You worked for the change and I didn't so I'll have to find a new phone provider and pay a bit more money. That's life, I withdraw my complaint ;)

oldharryrocks wrote on Nov 5^th, 2008 at 8:20pm:

I think 18185 must  have a problem with 03 numbers, because i recently dialled an 03 number from a BT Line  using the 18185 access code and it claimed network busy, i dialled it using the 0808 access code it said it was busy,i then tried it via the 0208 access code it said it was busy. Yet when i rang it direct via BT and O2 it answered straight away.

With yourcalls.net I found I consistently could not get through to BBC Information using their 03 number by dialling the normal way and I had to add the 1280 over-ride prefix to force the call to route with BT to get through.  Even then I was regularly getting engaged dialling the BBC Information 03 number but not if I used the old 0870 number when I was connected straight away.

I suppose I should take this up with Michael Stock at the BBC but there are only so many hours in the day.

Basically Ofcom being the pathetically useless organisation they are have failed to properly ensure all telecoms providers do class 03 as normal numbers even though their own General Conditions say they should.  I expect they are far too busy arranging their next pension contribution increase or their next big dinner for the telecoms industry to have time to attend to such trivial and unimportant matters. ;) ::) >:( :'(

I'm well aware that there's no such thing as "free" calls. What I said was that you now have choice as a consumer. If you do subscribe to an inclusive package, calls to the new 03 numbers will also be included. This is in contrast to 087 numbers - in the past, inclusive packages were forced down our throats by telecom companies, who always neglected to mention that the numbers for most organisations were excluded.

The fact is, no-one should be paying more for 03 numbers than for 01/02. If you are, there's something wrong. Only a small minority of people who use some weird combination of services will be in that position. Even so, we'd like to help you.

Please can you tell us what dial-though number you use to make calls, so we can look into it.

Could you also fill in the following table to explain call costs for the two services you use. (Don't forget to list the call set-up costs too):

	Virgin	Dial-through
01/02	?p/min, ?p set-up	?p/min, ?p set-up
03	?p/min, ?p set-up	?p/min, ?p set-up
0845	?p/min, ?p set-up	?p/min, ?p set-up

I hope I do not risk having my "senior member" status revoked by revealing that I have little interest in subscribing to services from uncontactable offshore discount telephone service providers that require you to dial override prefixes for some calls as well as consulting the clock, a set of tariff tables and perhaps a website before making a telephone call.

I believe that this places me in the same position as most of those whose interests we are aiming to serve by campaigning against improper use of revenue sharing numbers. (I recognise that others have wider campaigning objectives.)

It is generally true that any provider of heavily discounted services cannot offer a full range of options. This is because they are generally exploiting high margin items that others use to subsidise their customer service overheads and less profitable items in their catalogue of services.

If one is prepared to suffer the necessary inconvenience, limitations of service and lack of "frills" such as a customer service line in order to save money, then that is fair enough. This however has little to do with public service providers funding their service through payments by service users wihout declaring the fact.

If a telephone service provider is permitted to deny access to the BBC Children in Need appeal and other useful numbers, and they chose to take this option, then they should have a lot of unhappy customers, and deservedly so. If it has been established that this is what we are discussing here, then perhaps this thread should be moved to the "rogue call providers" section of the forum.

By the way, I can endorse all the criticism of the quality of customer service from Virginmedia. I had two such examples today. Both agents were charming and courteous, but neither had any idea about the services they were dealing with. At least we are getting Sky News back, and Sky Arts added.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Nov 6^th, 2008 at 12:53am:

By the way, I can endorse all the criticism of the quality of customer service from Virginmedia. I had two such examples today. Both agents were charming and courteous, but neither had any idea about the services they were dealing with.

Surely this is hardly unique to Virgin but sadly typical of the customer service agents of 95% of the UK's large companies today.

If you were a customer of Vodafone you would find that both charm and courtesy are most certainly not default features of their Scottish call centres and instead abrupt terseness, arrogance and indifference to the customer are the norm.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Nov 6^th, 2008 at 12:53am:

I hope I do not risk having my "senior member" status revoked by revealing that I have little interest in subscribing to services from uncontactable offshore discount telephone service providers that require you to dial override prefixes for some calls as well as consulting the clock, a set of tariff tables and perhaps a website before making a telephone call. I believe that this places me in the same position as most of those whose interests we are aiming to serve by campaigning against improper use of revenue sharing numbers. (I recognise that others have wider campaigning objectives.) ...

I completely agree with you, SilentCallsVictim. We should ensure that people can make calls at standard cost to any company or organisation they need to call. If there is some special prefix that allows cheaper calls for particular numbers, all well and good, but no-one can expect that to be universal for all numbers. Rather, they should consider it a special deal on the numbers to which the cheaper call is available.

With a (partial) end to revenue sharing, we have a far less distorted market. Providers are free to offer whatever prices they want to call particular numbers. It's up to the consumer: pay a bit more line rental for inclusive calls, or pay less line rental but pay for daytime calls. This was never an option with 0870 numbers.

Having said that, there's no reason we can't offer alternative 01/02 numbers for 03 numbers in the database. And if an 0845 number exists, it will presumably already be in the database - it's possible to search for the 03 number and find an 0845 number, if that's cheaper during the daytime.

The problem and reason mr_feedback started this thread was because 18185 has stopped allowing calls to 03 numbers. I have just tried one using its prefix from a BT line and it gives network busy. This did not used to be the case and 03 numbers could be dialled and were charged as per 01/02 calls.

Dave wrote on Nov 6^th, 2008 at 11:48am:

The problem and reason mr_feedback started this thread was because 18185 has stopped allowing calls to 03 numbers. I have just tried one using its prefix from a BT line and it gives network busy. This did not used to be the case and 03 numbers could be dialled and were charged as per 01/02 calls.

I have previously had read receipts for emails sent to info@finarea.ch and igor.tracchia@finarea.ch in respect of the barking dogs call connection issue on 18185.

I then also had an email from service@finarea.ch saying they had applied a £20 credit to my account in respect of the barking dogs issue (because it caused me to make an unnecessary return journey of 90 miles as I thought burglars had broken in to my mother's house), although I don't think the credit ever turned up (surprise, surprise).

Igor Tracchia is the boss man of Finarea (1899, 18866, 18185 et al) so if people email him on the 03 number non connectivity issue this may help get the issue resolved.

I now have an all calls package with yourcalls.net for 01, 02, 03 numbers but I still use 18185 for calling mobile phone numbers and the barking dogs issue has not recurred in recent months.

mr_feedback wrote on Nov 5^th, 2008 at 10:57pm:

jrawle "call inclusive" packages are not free, you pay a higher cost for the service than if there were no inclusive calls so if you don't do enough calling to require a call inclusive deal, and until these 03 numbers started coming up you'd have had to spend well over 15 hours on the phone per month to beat £5 line rental and 0.5p per minute with free weekend calls before BT's £10.50 a month was a good deal (and even then you can get 5p per call flat with 0844 calls on BT, that doesn't apply to 03xx so it's still a bad deal). I don't, but I do spend 5 or 6 hours on the month to companies who have now changed to these 03xx numbers which are MORE EXPENSIVE THAN IT IS FOR ME TO CALL GEOGRAPHICAL NUMBERS. And it really was that simple, that was my whole complaint - that they are not the same as geographical numbers. Now I know you don't agree as 03xx are not more expensive for YOU to call than geographical numbers. And that's OK. Obviously the party is over for me and I will have to find another £40 a year and change telephone companies. It's not the end of the world. If you had listed GEOGRAPHICAL NUMBERS as alternatives to 03xx numbers I would not have this problem but really what I took offense at was because I didn't understand what 03xx numbers were intended to be when I made the first post having just been told they cost 8p a minute; and I'm still (somewhat) put out the numbers are supposed to be an end to the rip off of 08xx numbers and THEY COST A NUMBER OF PEOPLE INCLUDING ME MORE RIGHT NOW. So it's like a big joke, a return of the non-geographic numbers. But I get that 03xx numbers are what you wanted all along and that's fine. You worked for the change and I didn't so I'll have to find a new phone provider and pay a bit more money. That's life, I withdraw my complaint ;)

As I have said before call packages ARE free with BT, well evening and week end anyway, you do not have to pay any extra for this, just agree to sign up to a 12 month contract.

sherbert wrote on Nov 6^th, 2008 at 1:21pm:

As I have said before call packages ARE free with BT, well evening and week end anyway, you do not have to pay any extra for this, just agree to sign up to a 12 month contract.

So you think signing up with BT for 12 months doesn't have an opportunity cost then? ::) :o

Dave wrote on Nov 5^th, 2008 at 8:50pm:

I don't know how you pay 0.5p/min to 0845 during the daytime. I think any provider offering such a rate is likely to be making a loss. .

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=5357468&postcount=59


0845-----------Weekday- Evening---Weekend

BT -------- 7p + 2p/min. -½p/min.--2p/½p/min. (BT's Day/Evening prices apply weekends too)
18185------ 5p + 3p/min. -½p/min.- -½p/min.
08081703703 4p + ½p/min.--½p/min.- -½p/min. (This is 18185's freephone gateway number)

derrick wrote on Nov 6^th, 2008 at 2:32pm:

Dave wrote on Nov 5th, 2008 at 8:50pm: I don't know how you pay 0.5p/min to 0845 during the daytime. I think any provider offering such a rate is likely to be making a loss. . http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=5357468&postcount=59 0845-----------Weekday- Evening---Weekend BT -------- 7p + 2p/min. -½p/min.--2p/½p/min. (BT's Day/Evening prices apply weekends too) 18185------ 5p + 3p/min. -½p/min.- -½p/min. 08081703703 4p + ½p/min.--½p/min.- -½p/min. (This is 18185's freephone gateway number)

That's 4p/min during the daytime and 0.5p/min during the evening and weekend. I took it that the OP was saying that 0845 calls cost 0.5p/min during the daytime via 18185's non-BT dial-through numbers (either 020 or 0808).

sherbert wrote on Nov 6^th, 2008 at 1:21pm:

As I have said before call packages ARE free with BT, well evening and week end anyway, you do not have to pay any extra for this, just agree to sign up to a 12 month contract.

I thought the OP claimed that he paid £5 per month for line rental on Virgin, so the point is it would cost more to move to BT (although if you want a decent broadband service, you have to have a PSTN line). Also, he wants to make calls during the day, so evening and weekend calls are not so much use.

Personally I have signed up for BT's 12 month contract as I want to stay with them to ensure I have access to all the codes for international numbers, etc. which I can't guarantee I'll get with anyone else.

jrawle wrote on Nov 6^th, 2008 at 4:10pm:

although if you want a decent broadband service, you have to have a PSTN line

Are you saying that Virgin Media don't offer a decent cable broadband service then?

There are plenty who would not agree with you on that point.

Their ADSL service is the one that's heavily panned and that is provided via a BT landline.

Dave wrote on Nov 6^th, 2008 at 2:40pm:

I took it that the OP was saying that 0845 calls cost 0.5p/min during the daytime via 18185's non-BT dial-through numbers (either 020 or 0808).

He was.

And is.

4p connection + ½p per minute AT ANY TIME.

NGMsGhost wrote on Nov 6^th, 2008 at 4:28pm:

Are you saying that Virgin Media don't offer a decent cable broadband service then?

Don't get me started. If you actually want to make use of the high speeds they promote, you get throttled after ridiculously low limits. That's if you get it in the first place. Also, if anything goes wrong, the customer services are useless, and blame anything other than their service. And during the period I was with Virgin, customer services was only via a 25p/min line, which I declined to call.

Since leaving Virgin, I have a service that's 6.5 times as fast for the same price, with freephone or e-mail support and no stupid limits or throttling!

jrawle wrote on Nov 6^th, 2008 at 5:30pm:

Don't get me started. If you actually want to make use of the high speeds they promote, you get throttled after ridiculously low limits. That's if you get it in the first place. Also, if anything goes wrong, the customer services are useless, and blame anything other than their service. And during the period I was with Virgin, customer services was only via a 25p/min line, which I declined to call. Since leaving Virgin, I have a service that's 6.5 times as fast for the same price, with freephone or e-mail support and no stupid limits or throttling!

OK but was that their cable or their ADSL service.  Its an established fact that Virgin ADSL is a completely useless service that almost no one (apart from derrick that is) seems to be happy with.

Most feedback I have heard on Virgin cable suggest less unhappiness but perhaps you are a heavy tv program downloader?

Personally I'm with adsl24.co.uk, an Entanet ISP, as I live on a rural exchange and have no cable or LLU options.  I'm happy with everything about the service apart from the price as it seems to cost at least £5 per month more than I think I should be paying.

NGMsGhost wrote on Nov 6^th, 2008 at 6:28pm:

OK but was that their cable or their ADSL service.  Its an established fact that Virgin ADSL is a completely useless service that almost no one (apart from derrick that is) seems to be happy with. Most feedback I have heard on Virgin cable suggest less unhappiness but perhaps you are a heavy tv program downloader?

Cable. The limit then was a meagre 350MB a night! Just downloading updates for you operating system or browsing some photo albums can take you over that limit. And you only need to watch one programme from iPlayer to be in trouble.

Dave wrote on Nov 6^th, 2008 at 2:40pm:

derrick wrote on Nov 6th, 2008 at 2:32pm: Dave wrote on Nov 5th, 2008 at 8:50pm: I don't know how you pay 0.5p/min to 0845 during the daytime. I think any provider offering such a rate is likely to be making a loss. . http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=5357468&postcount=59 0845-----------Weekday- Evening---Weekend BT -------- 7p + 2p/min. -½p/min.--2p/½p/min. (BT's Day/Evening prices apply weekends too) 18185------ 5p + 3p/min. -½p/min.- -½p/min. 08081703703 4p + ½p/min.--½p/min.- -½p/min. (This is 18185's freephone gateway number) That's 4p/min during the daytime and 0.5p/min during the evening and weekend. I took it that the OP was saying that 0845 calls cost 0.5p/min during the daytime via 18185's non-BT dial-through numbers (either 020 or 0808).

They do, the 4p you refer to is the connection charge. At all times using the 0808 number, calls to 0845 cost ½p per minute, the cut and paste did not work to well in my previous post, but if you click on the link it shows the prices clearly.

0845-----------              Weekday-      Evening--     Weekend
BT --------      7p +           2p/min. -      ½p/min.--    2p/½p/min. (BT's Day/Evening prices apply weekends too)
18185------    5p +           3p/min. -       ½p/min.- -   ½p/min.
08081703703 4p +     ½p/min.--   ½p/min.-- ½p/min. (This is 18185's freephone gateway number)

NGMsGhost wrote on Nov 6^th, 2008 at 6:28pm:

OK but was that their cable or their ADSL service.  Its an established fact that Virgin ADSL is a completely useless service that almost no one (apart from derrick that is) seems to be happy with. .

Don't know why you are singling me out? There must me 10s, if not 100s, of thousands of people who are happy with virgin, otherwise your quote; - " Virgin ADSL is a completely useless service that almost no one (apart from derrick that is) seems to be happy with." cannot hold water!

It suits me, (and others), for the needs that I require, I don't download vast quantities from the web and the £9.99 a month I pay for 2mg speed and 3gb download, plus free phone calls evening and weekends is adequate for what I do.

derrick wrote on Nov 8^th, 2008 at 10:36am:

Dave wrote on Nov 6th, 2008 at 2:40pm: derrick wrote on Nov 6th, 2008 at 2:32pm: Dave wrote on Nov 5th, 2008 at 8:50pm: I don't know how you pay 0.5p/min to 0845 during the daytime. I think any provider offering such a rate is likely to be making a loss. . http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=5357468&postcount=59 0845-----------Weekday- Evening---Weekend BT -------- 7p + 2p/min. -½p/min.--2p/½p/min. (BT's Day/Evening prices apply weekends too) 18185------ 5p + 3p/min. -½p/min.- -½p/min. 08081703703 4p + ½p/min.--½p/min.- -½p/min. (This is 18185's freephone gateway number) That's 4p/min during the daytime and 0.5p/min during the evening and weekend. I took it that the OP was saying that 0845 calls cost 0.5p/min during the daytime via 18185's non-BT dial-through numbers (either 020 or 0808). They do, the 4p you refer to is the connection charge. At all times using the 0808 number, calls to 0845 cost ½p per minute, the cut and paste did not work to well in my previous post, but if you click on the link it shows the prices clearly. 0845-----------              Weekday-      Evening--     Weekend BT --------      7p +           2p/min. -      ½p/min.--    2p/½p/min. (BT's Day/Evening prices apply weekends too) 18185------    5p +           3p/min. -       ½p/min.- -   ½p/min. 08081703703 4p +     ½p/min.--   ½p/min.-- ½p/min. (This is 18185's freephone gateway number)

I think both of us are wrong! Heinz, perhaps you can review your advice.


0845 calls with 18185 via the 18185 prefix from BT lines is 3p/min weekday daytime (Mon-Fri 6am-6pm) and 0.5p/min during evenings and weekends (all other times). Connection fee is 5p.


0845 calls with 18185 via the 020/0808 dial-through numbers is 3p/min weekdays (daytime and evening) and 1p/min at weekends. Connection fee is 4p.

Dave wrote on Nov 8^th, 2008 at 1:10pm:

derrick wrote on Nov 8th, 2008 at 10:36am: Dave wrote on Nov 6th, 2008 at 2:40pm: derrick wrote on Nov 6th, 2008 at 2:32pm: Dave wrote on Nov 5th, 2008 at 8:50pm: I don't know how you pay 0.5p/min to 0845 during the daytime. I think any provider offering such a rate is likely to be making a loss. . http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=5357468&postcount=59 0845-----------Weekday- Evening---Weekend BT -------- 7p + 2p/min. -½p/min.--2p/½p/min. (BT's Day/Evening prices apply weekends too) 18185------ 5p + 3p/min. -½p/min.- -½p/min. 08081703703 4p + ½p/min.--½p/min.- -½p/min. (This is 18185's freephone gateway number) That's 4p/min during the daytime and 0.5p/min during the evening and weekend. I took it that the OP was saying that 0845 calls cost 0.5p/min during the daytime via 18185's non-BT dial-through numbers (either 020 or 0808). They do, the 4p you refer to is the connection charge. At all times using the 0808 number, calls to 0845 cost ½p per minute, the cut and paste did not work to well in my previous post, but if you click on the link it shows the prices clearly. 0845-----------              Weekday-      Evening--     Weekend BT --------      7p +           2p/min. -      ½p/min.--    2p/½p/min. (BT's Day/Evening prices apply weekends too) 18185------    5p +           3p/min. -       ½p/min.- -   ½p/min. 08081703703 4p +     ½p/min.--   ½p/min.-- ½p/min. (This is 18185's freephone gateway number) I think both of us are wrong! Heinz, perhaps you can review your advice. 0845 calls with 18185 via the 18185 prefix from BT lines is 3p/min weekday daytime (Mon-Fri 6am-6pm) and 0.5p/min during evenings and weekends (all other times). Connection fee is 5p. 0845 calls with 18185 via the 020/0808 dial-through numbers is 3p/min weekdays (daytime and evening) and 1p/min at weekends. Connection fee is 4p.

To be honest, I just quoted from Heinz thread on MSE, but on checking the 18185 website you are correct with the pricing, 3p weekdays, 1p weekends, so maybe Heinz can update his thread  ;)