I was advised all numbering queries go here so here goes.

Firstly I have had the 0551 and 0558 numbers explained as businesses buying a batch of numbers for adding as and when they connect them (but not a clue why anyone would do this, plus make customers pay 5p a minute to call). I don't think they get anything for it so the money has to go somewhere.
056 I have discovered is now used for calls via the internet although they had already got 0820 and plenty more available in that batch had they wanted to use them.
So having opened up a complete new block for 0500 existing number and these, what do they intend to do with the other billion or so numbers they've freed up? The block must have a specific purpose or they wouldn't have reserved it for yet more non geographics. Numbers for life were already on 070 and cost callers an arm and a leg so that also seems to be duplicated by these somewhat.

And I did read what 06 are reserved for once but forgot. Any ideas, and has it started using them yet? I did have an Oakley's guide but now both them and BT have stopped updating them I will have to rely on asking others. It was a shame as I bought a new one every two years and now feel lost as new numbers crop up weekly it seems and I haven't a clue what they are.

David_H wrote on Dec 12^th, 2008 at 12:35pm:

Firstly I have had the 0551 and 0558 numbers explained as businesses buying a batch of numbers for adding as and when they connect them (but not a clue why anyone would do this, plus make customers pay 5p a minute to call). I don't think they get anything for it so the money has to go somewhere. 056 I have discovered is now used for calls via the internet although they had already got 0820 and plenty more available in that batch had they wanted to use them.

Not all 0551 numbers are charged at 5 pence per minute. BT charges some at geographical (01/02/03) rate. See this list of prefixes. As you will see, it is a minefield. Other providers such as Virgin Media don't charge any 05 numbers inline with 01/02/03 rates.

g6 numbers are charged at 5 pence per minute at all times regardless of which BT tariff one is on.
g21 numbers are charged inline with 01/02/03 numbers on "discounted" tariffs where local and national calls are the same rate. This includes BT Calling Plans (formally BT Together Options).


David_H wrote on Dec 12^th, 2008 at 12:35pm:

So having opened up a complete new block for 0500 existing number and these, what do they intend to do with the other billion or so numbers they've freed up?

They haven't opened the block for 0500 numbers as they have been in existance for many years. They are all 10-digit numbers, ie 0500 123456 and were introduced for Mercury Communications (Cable & Wireless).


David_H wrote on Dec 12^th, 2008 at 12:35pm:

The block must have a specific purpose or they wouldn't have reserved it for yet more non geographics. Numbers for life were already on 070 and cost callers an arm and a leg so that also seems to be duplicated by these somewhat. And I did read what 06 are reserved for once but forgot. Any ideas, and has it started using them yet? I did have an Oakley's guide but now both them and BT have stopped updating them I will have to rely on asking others. It was a shame as I bought a new one every two years and now feel lost as new numbers crop up weekly it seems and I haven't a clue what they are.

The proposal was (is?) that "personal numbers" on 070 numbers were/are to be migrated to 06 numbers because they are confused with mobile numbers.

This is as close as you will get to any recent statement of policy by Ofcom on their so called National Telephone Number Plan:-

See www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/numberingreview/statement/summary/

How an 08 prefix code that includes Freephone, covert premium rate and overt premium rate numbers all on the one prefix actually makes any sense seems to be anybody's guess.

070 numbers are supposed to move to 06 according to Ofcom's plan but I am sure the telcos who run them will try taking their case to the Competition Appeals Tribunal if Ofcom actually try to push this through.  And that is before we consider International landline and mobile numbers in Jersey, Guernsey and Isle of Man all using standard UK dialling codes and thus easily confuses as being normal UK geographic and mobile numbers when they are usually not charged on that basis.

As to having so called internet numbers not charged at standard rate on 05 and some few 0500 Freephone numbers left in service (eg BBC Five Live) the whole thing is complete and utter chaos and insanity by the UK's most useless regulatory body. :o >:( [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif]

Perhaps you may care to email their CEO - ed.richards@ofcom.org.uk to ask him why he thinks any of it makes sense. ::)

NGMsGhost wrote on Dec 12^th, 2008 at 12:55pm:

As to having so called internet numbers not charged at standard rate on 05 ...

AFAIK, the numbers the likes of BT will give you for its VoIP service are 056x which are charged at 01/02/03 rates from BT lines. The amount BT charges others in termination charges is roughly the same as a geographical call.

The point here is that other retailers such as Virgin Media are not compelled to align 056 calls with 01/02/03 ones. It does not excuse why some 055 numbers are charged at g6 (5ppm inc VAT) from a BT line which obviously causes confusion.

Sorry about the 0500, I meant new numbers plus existing 0500s which were already there as we all know. How they slipped through the normally watertight net of number alterations will always stand out as a beacon of an exception to a rule.

The 5p a minute is advertised on the main Oftel and BT sites and doesn't mention exceptions. 'Calls to these numbers are at a flat rate of 5p a minute from BT lines'. Seems like another update that passed me by (and them).

Thanks for the 06 answer, the fact 070 numbers can cost more than phoning Nigeria on a mobile makes them about as attractive to me as cholera, and would never dream of calling anyone with the gall to use one. I see vans regularly with them on, and as the law exampts them from premium rate notification (another huge question there) most callers will innocently phone to order a van and find a call for £3.50 on their bill and blame their kids for it.

But back to the point, it seems the only difference between 070 and 055 numbers is although both appear to be for life 070 numbers can be diverted at will where presumably 055 numbers would only move when the owner went to a new office elsewhere. Have I got that right?

David_H wrote on Dec 12^th, 2008 at 1:17pm:

But back to the point, it seems the only difference between 070 and 055 numbers is although both appear to be for life 070 numbers can be diverted at will where presumably 055 numbers would only move when the owner went to a new office elsewhere. Have I got that right?

I'm not entirely sure about that. In general, keep in mind that different telephone companies operate different numbers, so (one assumes) that they can deal with them however they like once the call is on their network.

I believe that 070 are (usually) number translation services, just like 08xx and 09xx. So you dial 070 whatever and it puts the call through to a mobile number (for example).

For 055/056 numbers, I understand that they terminate on VoIP lines. Examples are Abbey branches and BT Broadband Talk service.

Dave wrote on Dec 12^th, 2008 at 1:33pm:

For 055/056 numbers, I understand that they terminate on VoIP lines. Examples are Abbey branches and BT Broadband Talk service.

Surely a Voip line actually terminates on a computer IP address and that IP address can be anything the owner of the Voip translation number currently chooses to make it or may soon change it to.

So its the direct equivalent of NTS/PRS for calls ending on a computer line rather than on POTS (Plain Old Telephone System).

NGMsGhost wrote on Dec 12^th, 2008 at 6:47pm:

Dave wrote on Dec 12th, 2008 at 1:33pm: For 055/056 numbers, I understand that they terminate on VoIP lines. Examples are Abbey branches and BT Broadband Talk service. Surely a Voip line actually terminates on a computer IP address and that IP address can be anything the owner of the Voip translation number currently chooses to make it or may soon change it to. So its the direct equivalent of NTS/PRS for calls ending on a computer line rather than on POTS (Plain Old Telephone System).

I suppose so.  :-/

I think this is straying away from the original purpose of this thread which was to raise the issue of retail call charges for 05 (and 06) numbers.

Dave wrote on Dec 12^th, 2008 at 6:56pm:

I think this is straying away from the original purpose of this thread which was to raise the issue of retail call charges for 05 (and 06) numbers.

Not really because if 05 voip numbers are not part of bundled call plans etc as 01/02/03 numbers are then we want to know the reason why.  Equally we also want to know if there is a revenue share received by the terminating call party and/or their telco on 05 voip numbers as with 084/7 numbers and 09 numbers.

The biggest issue of all with Voip terminated numbers is that there is potentially no geographic alternative number that can be provided by this website if the call centre concerned does not also have some geographic phone numbers somewhere in the building.

NGMsGhost wrote on Dec 12^th, 2008 at 7:08pm:

Not really because if 05 voip numbers are not part of bundled call plans etc as 01/02/03 numbers are then we want to know the reason why.

The reason is because retailing providers choose not to include them (apart from BT). This is as a result of Ofcom not enforcing any rules on how these numbers should be charged.

With revenue sharing 084 and 087 numbers the receiver's telco takes most of the call charge and can therefore share some with its customer (the receiver). With 056 numbers it appears that the higher call costs are as a result of originators bumping up the call cost.


NGMsGhost wrote on Dec 12^th, 2008 at 7:08pm:

Equally we also want to know if there is a revenue share received by the terminating call party and/or their telco on 05 voip numbers as with 084/7 numbers and 09 numbers.

If the termination charges are the same as geographical calls, which, the BT Wholesale Carrier Price List suggests they are, then there is obviously no way the receiving party can get cash back.

Furthermore, the fact that BT allows them from its inclusive tariffs suggests that no revenue sharing exists. After all, telephone call retailers aren't likely to leave themselves open to artificial inflation of traffic whereby someone with a number which gives them revenue payments calls that number from an line with an inclusive tariff to generate a profit.


NGMsGhost wrote on Dec 12^th, 2008 at 7:08pm:

The biggest issue of all with Voip terminated numbers is that there is potentially no geographic alternative number that can be provided by this website if the call centre concerned does not also have some geographic phone numbers somewhere in the building.

I disagree with this statement. I feel that the biggest issue is that there is no requirement for originating providers to charge them inline with 01/02/03 calls.

Dave wrote on Dec 12^th, 2008 at 7:58pm:

I feel that the biggest issue is that there is no requirement for originating providers to charge them inline with 01/02/03 calls.

But because this is so the fact that voip numbers may not have any physical geographic alternative number also becomes an issue.  If they were charged as per 01/02 geographic numbers like 03 numbers are then there would be no need to find a geographic alternative number (except perhaps if calling from abroad or using www.18185.co.uk)

0560 are mostly charged the same as UK landlines; unfortunately some of the UK mobile  networks seem to have set themselves apart from the rest of the world in this respect.