Some time ago (November 2008) I sent a letter to Mr. Drew MP pointing out that the information the minister (Mr McNulty MP) had been given by Lesley Strathie (of Jobcentre) was inaccurate.  Today (21 March 2009) I received the letter sent to Mr Drew from the Minister commenting on my complaint.  I have copied below the original answer given by the Minister and the Letter from the Minister to Mr Drew.  

QUOTE

House of Commons Hansard Written Answers for 27 Oct 2008 (pt 0023)
Department of Work and Pensions

27 Oct 2008 : Column 701W

Social Security Benefits: Telephone Services

Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (1) on what date the decision was made to charge clients for telephone calls to the 0845 number for the benefits delivery centre at St. Austell; and for what reason the decision was made; [227365]

(2) what revenue Jobcentre Plus has received from the operation of the 0845 number of the benefits delivery centre at St. Austell in each of the last three years; and how this revenue has been allocated. [227366]

Mr. McNulty: A holding reply was sent on 16 October 2008.

The administration of Jobcentre Plus is a matter for the chief executive of Jobcentre Plus, Lesley Strathie. I have asked her to provide the hon. Member with the information requested.

Letter from Lesley Strathie:

The Secretary of State has asked me to reply to your questions asking on what date the decision was made to charge clients for telephone calls to the 0845 number for the benefits delivery centre at St Austell; and for what reason the decision was made and what revenue Jobcentre Plus has received from the operation of the 0845 number of the benefits delivery centre at St Austell in each of the last three years; and how this revenue has been allocated. This is something that falls within the responsibilities delegated to me as Chief Executive of Jobcentre Plus.

In line with other DWP Contact Centres, the decision was made to move to 0845 numbers as Benefit Delivery Centres (BDCs) rolled out nationally. St Austell BDC started using 0845 numbers on 19 March 2007.

Jobcentre Plus made a decision to use 0845 numbers as opposed to geographical prefix numbers as these numbers will, in the main, be cheaper than calling a national rate number. The 0845 prefix also enables us to provide better customer service by recording call statistics, providing a call queuing function and playing automated announcements providing customer information.

The revenue received from 0845 numbers across the whole of DWP ceased in December 2007. We did not keep a breakdown of the revenue by business. The rebate from BT amounted to £0.5m per annum across DWP, some 0.007% of our annual budget and was used by DWP to re-invest in services.

END QUOTE

Letter dated 19 February 2009 from Minister to Mr. David Drew MP
Ref POS(2)10950/0165 Department for Works and Pensions, Caxton House, Tothill Street, London SW1H 9DA [ email: ministers@dwp.gsi.gov.uk ]

QUOTE

Thank you for your letter of 24 November concerning the reply to your written Parliamentary Questions 227365 and 227366 and the suggestion from Kevin Kearney that the letter from the Jobcentre Plus Chief Executive was in someway misleading. I am sorry for the delay in replying.

It is unclear why Mr Kearney believes that the Chief Executive's letter is untrue.

Whilst it is true that for many tariffs there is now a single national rate, it remains the case that these generally charge higher amounts for calls to geographical numbers than they do for 0845 numbers.

I accept there are some tariffs where the 0845 number charges are higher per minute, but as these tariffs generally involve a fixed periodical charge on top of any call charges, it makes direct comparison difficult.

It may interest Mr Kearney to know that BT publishes all its various tariffs and for those not signed up to one of its Call Plans, there is still a difference in charges for local-calls and national-calls. Additionally, in all but one of its published Call-Plan rates, landline calls to 0845 numbers are cheaper than calls to geographical numbers.

Of course, it remains the case that the 0845 prefix also enables us to provide better customer service by recording call statistics, providing a call queuing function and playing automated announcements providing customer information.

Tony McNulty.
END QUOTE

kk wrote on Mar 21^st, 2009 at 1:49pm:

Jobcentre Plus made a decision to use 0845 numbers as opposed to geographical prefix numbers as these numbers will, in the main, be cheaper than calling a national rate number. The 0845 prefix also enables us to provide better customer service by recording call statistics, providing a call queuing function and playing automated announcements providing customer information. The revenue received from 0845 numbers across the whole of DWP ceased in December 2007. We did not keep a breakdown of the revenue by business. The rebate from BT amounted to £0.5m per annum across DWP, some 0.007% of our annual budget and was used by DWP to re-invest in services.[/color] Of course, it remains the case that the 0845 prefix also enables us to provide better customer service by recording call statistics, providing a call queuing function and playing automated announcements providing customer information. Tony McNulty.[/color] END QUOTE

These letters are full of misleading, wrong and totally untrue statements.   All the features which are mentioned including "recording call statistics, providing a call queuing function and playing automated announcements providing customer information" and "the 0845 prefix also enables us to provide better customer service by recording call statistics, providing a call queuing function and playing automated announcements", can also be provided for geographic and 03 numbers.   The use of an 0845 number does not itself provide these features which are actually provided by the system behind the number and this system can equally provide such features and services if placed behind a geographic number.

Just to be clear about this the 0845 number does NOT provide features or services.  

The system which provides such services can equally provide services for a geographic or 03 number.   Tony McNulty MP should be ashamed of himself for stating such untruths and should be compelled to retract these statements and issue corrections.   He is totally unfit to be a Minister.

Perhaps Ofcon and/or Trading Standards should be asked to put him straight on the facts and then McNulty can issue an apology for his appalling gaffs.

kk wrote on Mar 21^st, 2009 at 1:49pm:

Thank you for your letter of 24 November concerning the reply to your written Parliamentary Questions 227365 and 227366 and the suggestion from Kevin Kearney that the letter from the Jobcentre Plus Chief Executive was in someway misleading. I am sorry for the delay in replying. It is unclear why Mr Kearney believes that the Chief Executive's letter is untrue. Whilst it is true that for many tariffs there is now a single national rate, it remains the case that these generally charge higher amounts for calls to geographical numbers than they do for 0845 numbers. I accept there are some tariffs where the 0845 number charges are higher per minute, but as these tariffs generally involve a fixed periodical charge on top of any call charges, it makes direct comparison difficult. It may interest Mr Kearney to know that BT publishes all its various tariffs and for those not signed up to one of its Call Plans, there is still a difference in charges for local-calls and national-calls. Additionally, in all but one of its published Call-Plan rates, landline calls to 0845 numbers are cheaper than calls to geographical numbers. Of course, it remains the case that the 0845 prefix also enables us to provide better customer service by recording call statistics, providing a call queuing function and playing automated announcements providing customer information. Tony McNulty.

So translating the above the continued use of 0845 and 0870 by government departments agencies clearly does not reflect lack of knowledge or unawareness of the issue but is part of a deliberate New Labour policy of organised lieing about the call costs of 0845 and 0870 numbers.  Any amount of petitions on the 10 Downing Street website will not change the minds of these hard hearted scammers and their conscienceless civil servants who draft their replies.   The whole system is based on and can only be supported by repeated telling of the big lie about 084/7 call costs.

All of the above comments they have made are rubbish because of the fact that 40% of UK calls are now made on mobile phones and all contract mobile phones in particular exclude them from bundled minutes call allowances.  In addition BT Payphones charge calls to 0845 at 20p per minute compared to 1p per minute to 01/02/03 and the 40p minimum call charge from a BT Payphone buys one minute of calling time to an 0845 number but 20 minutes to an 01/02/03 number (as the 40p is made up of a 20p connection fee and a minimum 20p charge for call time).  None of these problems apply with an 03 phone number where mobile phones and BT Payphones charge calls at the same rate as to 01/02 number.

So it seems obvious to me why Mr Kearney believes that the Chief Executive's letter is untrue.  Perhaps the said Mr Kearney may choose to reply to his MP by making the points about the high call costs of 0845 from a mobile phone or BT Payphones and these not applying to any government department that has altered its phone lines to use 03 phone numbers instead of 0845.