i am in a bt inclusive contract which includes free calls to 0845/0870 numbers and would like to know if these contracts are challengable on the following basis.
when i took the contract out if any company that was on 0845/0870 was changed to 0844/0871 after that point by bt and i needed to contact them then is this not a breach.
curious to have any opinions

As a general rule, BT would not unilaterally change a customers telephone number. An end user might ask their supplier, be that BT or any of the many other companies that provide telephone numbers, to do so, but your contract is not with them.  For that reason alone, I think you would not have a case.   Anyway, BT are still providing you with exactly what they said: inclusive calls to 0845 & 0870 numbers.  It's partly due to the fact that so many companies have moved away from these numbers that they feel they can afford to offer this facility..

If there is anything in your contract with BT about who you will be able to call, and for what purpose, then you may have a case. I suspect not.

The point about switching only applies to 0870 numbers, because of the long advertised withdrawal of the revenue share that finally took place on 1 August. Many had already switched before BT added 0870 to packages in January, however BT did take something of a hit during the 6½ months.

Many assume that 0845 will lose the revenue share at some point in the next five years. If this happens it will cause a migration to 0844 (unless that is changed also). BT is not however taking a hit on 0845 calls by anticipating this change. Its margin on 0845 calls is fixed to be tiny by regulation and is being maintained whilst the revenue share is being paid for by everybody out of their package fees.

I echo what irrelevant and SilentCallsVictim have posted.

A company that has switched could be with any telephone provider, just like your landline or mobile telephone service could be with any provider. Therefore, BT is not forced to be the provider of the 08xx number in question.

There is a contract between the company your calling and its telephone provider for the supply of telephony services and it is not up to the organisation's telephone company to dictate what telephone number it should use.

Where companies have moved away from 0870 numbers, this is probably due to the loss of subsidy that underpinned revenue sharing. This was an industry-wide change that took place on 1 August 2009, as driven by the regulator, Ofcom.

By including 0870 numbers in packages back in January, BT essentially pre-empted this change. But it had no power to stop paying the premiums to the telephone companies of organisations (call centres etc) operating these numbers. Only intervention by the regulator can effect that.


Like with 0870 in January, BT's removal of "per minute" charges for calls its customers make to 0845 numbers has no effect on the subsidy passed to receiving parties (via their telephone providers).


Any migration of companies from any number range is therefore because they wish to change number to increase or decrease levels of subsidy derived from their callers. With 0870 there was a loss of subsidy because of changes made by the regulator.

For 0845, it may be that companies are seeing others move to 0844, and hence they are happy to follow suit in order to increase the subsidy (and hence charges) to their customers for making contact by telephone.

Slightly off message but it does seem to fit here reasonably well - I recently came across an 0843 number for the first time, am I correct in assuming that these are basically the same price as 0844 (I know there are differentials within the ranges but basically an 0843 is a premium rate as is 0844 in that they cost more to call than 01, 02, 03)?

Barbara wrote on Nov 13^th, 2009 at 3:11pm:

Slightly off message but it does seem to fit here reasonably well - I recently came across an 0843 number for the first time, am I correct in assuming that these are basically the same price as 0844 (I know there are differentials within the ranges but basically an 0843 is a premium rate as is 0844 in that they cost more to call than 01, 02, 03)?

From a charging point of view, 0843 is the same as 0844. Likewise 0872 and 0871.

Yes, 0843 is effectively the same as 0844.

(I didn't see Dave's reply before adding my own! Oops!)

Thank you!

0842 and 0873 are coming very soon too...

Barbara wrote on Nov 13^th, 2009 at 3:11pm:

I recently came across an 0843 number for the first time, am I correct in assuming that these are basically the same price as 0844 (I know there are differentials within the ranges but basically an 0843 is a premium rate as is 0844 in that they cost more to call than 01, 02, 03)?

Not necessarily.  the differentials within the ranges you menton (0843 numbers are charged, depending on the 5th, 6th and 7th digits, at ½p, 1p, 2p, 3p, 4p or 5p per minute) means they may be cheaper than an 01/02/03 call.

Heinz wrote on Nov 15^th, 2009 at 11:58am:

Not necessarily.  the differentials within the ranges you menton (0843 numbers are charged, depending on the 5th, 6th and 7th digits, at ½p, 1p, 2p, 3p, 4p or 5p per minute) means they may be cheaper than an 01/02/03 call.

That only applies from a BT landline though - everywhere else it costs much more than a standard landline call!

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Nov 13^th, 2009 at 10:06am:

If there is anything in your contract with BT about who you will be able to call, and for what purpose, then you may have a case. I suspect not.

I agree.  Basically BT have agreed to include these calls in with any existing inclusive package and it's not BT's fault that companies are now moving to other number ranges to maintain the revenue sharing/or even increase the revenue sharing.

However, BT obviously knew that most, if not all, companies would eventually move to other number ranges to maintain their revenue share!!


Quote:

Many assume that 0845 will lose the revenue share at some point in the next five years.

Unfortunately, I don't believe that 0845 will lose it's revenue share.


Quote:

...BT is not however taking a hit on 0845 calls by anticipating this change. Its margin on 0845 calls is fixed to be tiny by regulation and is being maintained whilst the revenue share is being paid for by everybody out of their package fees.

I'm not sure here.  I suspect BT is losing a very small amount (in the grand scheme of things) of profit by including 0845 in with existing inclusive calls and this is why they increase costs elsewhere like the "connection fee" and increase in line rental, etc.