Edenfield Road Surgery in Rochdale has scrapped its 0844 number and replaced it with (01706) 344125. The 0844 477 8623 number has a recording on giving the new number.

The familiar Surgery Line voiceover is on the 01706 number, so this looks like it could be a practice using the system without a 0844 number.


This surgery has been mentioned on the forum when it first switched to a 0870 number in 2005:
http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1107269135/21#21
http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1109244938/55#55

Otterfield Medical Centre also only shows its 01895 number on its website, although unlike Edenfield, the 0844 number still functions as normal with no mention of the 01895 number.

http://www.otterfieldmedicalcentre.co.uk/contact1.aspx?p=E86027

Green Lanes Surgery in Enfield has moved from number 939 to number 808 and changed its telephone number from 0844 477 8941 to (020) 8350 5000. The website says that the move took place on 19^th July this year.

The 0844 number is still in service and goes through to the same recording and menu as is on the 020 number. The alternative we listed previously, (020) 8370 7050, is also still working and goes through to that same recording and menu. This advises of the new 020 number.

Last month, Salisbury House Surgery in Leighton Buzzard abandoned its 0844 number in favour of a local geographic number.

The Limes Surgery in Margate has abandoned its 0844 number in favour of one with the local code.

Dave wrote on Dec 20^th, 2010 at 12:31pm:

The Limes Surgery in Margate has abandoned its 0844 number in favour of one with the local code.

From the "contact us" re your link;-


Telephone: 0844 499 6980
Fax: 0844 499 6981

Hardly "abandoned its 0844 number"

.

derrick wrote on Dec 20^th, 2010 at 1:25pm:

Dave wrote on Dec 20th, 2010 at 12:31pm: The Limes Surgery in Margate has abandoned its 0844 number in favour of one with the local code. From the "contact us" re your link;- Telephone: 0844 499 6980 Fax: 0844 499 6981 Hardly "abandoned its 0844 number" .

A call to the 0844 499 6980 number greets one with a recording which redirects to the new number.

Dave wrote on Dec 20^th, 2010 at 1:47pm:

A call to the 0844 499 6980 number greets one with a recording which redirects to the new number.

But people using this site don't like dialling 0844 numbers  ;)

I'm surprised that you haven't told us what the new number is, Dave    ::) ;D



Edit: I meant stating the new number in this thread rather than just in the directory!  :-[

Golf_Paul wrote on Dec 20^th, 2010 at 4:14pm:

[quote author=Dave link=1280866628/0#6 date=1292852874] A call to the 0844 499 6980 number greets one with a recording which redirects to the new number.

But people using this site don't like dialling 0844 numbers  ;)

I'm surprised that you haven't told us what the new number is, Dave    ::) ;D



Edit: I meant stating the new number in this thread rather than just in the directory!  :-[/quote]
The number is in the database. I came across it in the listings and it is sometimes useful to call the 08 number to know how it answers in order to know what you're looking for. Had I not done it in this case, I wouldn't have become aware that this surgery has said no to 0844.

Dave wrote on Dec 20^th, 2010 at 10:11pm:

Golf_Paul wrote on Dec 20th, 2010 at 4:14pm: [quote author=Dave link=1280866628/0#6 date=1292852874] A call to the 0844 499 6980 number greets one with a recording which redirects to the new number. But people using this site don't like dialling 0844 numbers  ;) I'm surprised that you haven't told us what the new number is, Dave    ::) ;D Edit: I meant stating the new number in this thread rather than just in the directory!  :-[/quote] The number is in the database. I came across it in the listings and it is sometimes useful to call the 08 number to know how it answers in order to know what you're looking for. Had I not done it in this case, I wouldn't have become aware that this surgery has said no to 0844.

But by dialing the 0844 and being answered, have you not then incurred an 0844 number charge, ( conn fee and minute minimum)?

derrick wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2010 at 9:54am:

But by dialing the 0844 and being answered, have you not then incurred an 0844 number charge, ( conn fee and minute minimum)?

That is indeed the case.

Perhaps you can suggest how I might achieve the objective of finding (and confirming) alternatives? Please do tell me how you think that I may save this cost whilst still working on the alternative numbers database for the benefit of all users.  :-? :-?

Dave wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2010 at 5:43pm:

derrick wrote on Dec 22nd, 2010 at 9:54am: But by dialing the 0844 and being answered, have you not then incurred an 0844 number charge, ( conn fee and minute minimum)? That is indeed the case.

Some changed number announcements are "free to caller" - I take it that this was not one such.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2010 at 6:15pm:

Dave wrote on Dec 22nd, 2010 at 5:43pm: derrick wrote on Dec 22nd, 2010 at 9:54am: But by dialing the 0844 and being answered, have you not then incurred an 0844 number charge, ( conn fee and minute minimum)? That is indeed the case. Some changed number announcements are "free to caller" - I take it that this was not one such.

That is correct.

Dave wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2010 at 7:10pm:

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Dec 22nd, 2010 at 6:15pm: Dave wrote on Dec 22nd, 2010 at 5:43pm: derrick wrote on Dec 22nd, 2010 at 9:54am: But by dialing the 0844 and being answered, have you not then incurred an 0844 number charge, ( conn fee and minute minimum)? That is indeed the case. Some changed number announcements are "free to caller" - I take it that this was not one such. That is correct.

Today 02/03/11 the website STILL has the 0844 number listed! Either the Surgery is till having a subsidised telephone system, or it has NO idea expensive 0844 numbers can be, or they are just plain stupid.

I wonder if a local user of the Dr's could kindly inform them? As it seems they have no e-mail address.

CJT-80 wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2011 at 11:32am:

Today 02/03/11 the website STILL has the 0844 number listed! Either the Surgery is till having a subsidised telephone system, or it has NO idea expensive 0844 numbers can be, or they are just plain stupid. I wonder if a local user of the Dr's could kindly inform them? As it seems they have no e-mail address.

Which surgery are you referring to?

Dave wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2011 at 11:38am:

CJT-80 wrote on Mar 2nd, 2011 at 11:32am: Today 02/03/11 the website STILL has the 0844 number listed! Either the Surgery is till having a subsidised telephone system, or it has NO idea expensive 0844 numbers can be, or they are just plain stupid. I wonder if a local user of the Dr's could kindly inform them? As it seems they have no e-mail address. Which surgery are you referring to?

Appologies http://www.thelimessurgery.nhs.uk/welcome/

Edit: Using the URL at the bottom of the site, I contacted Kent and Medway Health Informatics Service and informed them the Surgeries number had changed.

Dr_Singh wrote on Mar 1^st, 2011 at 12:10pm:

To move away from the 0844 Number back to a local number  Get in touch with […]

I hope that Dr Singh will return and post about his experience. It would be good to hear from GPs, and they are most welcome to post.

This might help others who are looking for a replacement to their system which uses a 084 number or simply those who are looking for a new phone system.

They are more than welcome to discuss the providers used, but we can't have spam messages which are no more than adverts for phone providers. For this reason I have removed the postings from Dr Singh.

CJT-80 wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2011 at 11:53am:

Dave wrote on Mar 2nd, 2011 at 11:38am: CJT-80 wrote on Mar 2nd, 2011 at 11:32am: Today 02/03/11 the website STILL has the 0844 number listed! Either the Surgery is till having a subsidised telephone system, or it has NO idea expensive 0844 numbers can be, or they are just plain stupid. I wonder if a local user of the Dr's could kindly inform them? As it seems they have no e-mail address. Which surgery are you referring to? Appologies http://www.thelimessurgery.nhs.uk/welcome/ Edit: Using the URL at the bottom of the site, I contacted Kent and Medway Health Informatics Service and informed them the Surgeries number had changed.

Today I have an e-mail from Kent and Medway Health Informatics Service who inform me the number has now been updated - Having just checked now , it has :-)

Hi Everybody,

I have received a response from Dan Jarvis the MP for Barnsley Central, at present he appears to be fighting our corner, I urge members to please contact him in regard to the use of 0845/0844 numbers used in both Doctors surgeries and the DWP I know there are members that have been pursuing Doctors Surgeries in the past but it may just be worth putting our view across again.

Can members please forward details of any surgery or DWP department that is using 084 numbers to

JARVIS, Dan [mailto:dan.jarvis.mp@parliament.uk]
Sent: 04 July 2011 22:18
To: aom@blueyonder.co.uk
Subject: FW: 0845 Numbers-Your e-mail to Dan Jarvis MP


Please see his reply

Dear Mr Ramsbottom,

Thank you for your emails regarding the use of 0845 numbers for both the NHS and government departments. This is an important issue which effects people throughout Barnsley.

As you have quite rightly pointed out, the use of 0845/ 0844 numbers in GP surgeries should now be unheard of. In 2009, the Labour government decided to take steps to ensure that patients were not saddled with the costs of 0844/0845 numbers when booking appointments, ordering repeat prescriptions etc. Under the National Health Service Regulations (2010), surgeries were required to take a number of steps to ensure that patients are not charged more than the cost to a geographical rate number; this came into effect on 1st April this year. If a surgery has taken all possible steps to review existing contracts and they are unable to terminate the contract, they should take steps to ensure that patients are still not charged anymore, for example, setting up a call back system. If you have had any experience to the contrary of this, please let me know.

With regards to Government departments, progress on this front has been rather slower. You may be interested to know that the HMRC appeared before the Treasury Select Committee earlier this year and they have now established a review of their current 0845 numbers. DWP has also been under scrutiny as you will know from your involvement in the saynoto0870 campaign.

As requested, I will keep you updated of any progress which is made on these campaigns and please do let me know if I can help you with this, or any other matter.

Best wishes

Dan

Dan Jarvis MP
Member of Parliament for Barnsley Central



Office 4/17
1 Parliament St
London
SW1A OAA

Westminster Office: 0207 219 1082
Barnsley Office: 01226 787893
Website: danjarvis.mp.co.uk

Saxonbury House Medical Centre has now changed from 0844 477 3045 to 01892 603131. This number is advised on the website and in a recording on the 0844 number.

http://www.saxonburyhousesurgery.co.uk/


Derby Road Health Centre in Nottingham, having previously given a 0115 number on its website alongside the 0844 number has finally dropped its 0844 number in favour of 0115 only.

http://www.drhc.org.uk/contact-us


Cassidy Medical Centre has also switched from 0844 to 020:

http://www.cassidymedicalcentre.co.uk/


Islington Medical Centre lists its 0844 number on NHS Choices, but 020 number on its own website. The 0844 is answered identically to the 020 number:

www.islingtoncentralmedicalcentre.org


Aveley Medical Centre in South Ockendon has also switched from 0844 to 01708. The former redirects to the latter.

Dave wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 8:55pm:

Derby Road Health Centre in Nottingham, having previously given a 0115 number on its website alongside the 0844 number has finally dropped its 0844 number in favour of 0115 only. http://www.drhc.org.uk/contact-us

The 0844 number is still shown on NHS Choices and appears on the website for "out of hours" calls.

This looks like a case where a surgery has published its own direct number, but still has the out of hours switching configured at the exchange on the 0844 number. It may warrant investigation!

Both Derby Road and Islington Central remain on my database - the others were not included in the most recent refresh from NHS Choices. (With 1,372 live entries to worry about, I do not keep a list of removals, nor investigate the timing or circumstances.)

---

On the subject of "Surgeries saying no ..." - this may be of interest.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jul 8^th, 2011 at 4:11am:

Dave wrote on Jul 7th, 2011 at 8:55pm: Derby Road Health Centre in Nottingham, having previously given a 0115 number on its website alongside the 0844 number has finally dropped its 0844 number in favour of 0115 only. http://www.drhc.org.uk/contact-us The 0844 number is still shown on NHS Choices and appears on the website for "out of hours" calls. This looks like a case where a surgery has published its own direct number, but still has the out of hours switching configured at the exchange on the 0844 number. It may warrant investigation!

This is the sort of nonsense I would expect from a certain surgery telephone system provider. 0115 837 is an Opal Telecom (TalkTalk Business) block.

This surgery published its geographic number (0115 973 8810) previously on its website alongside the 0844 number. This is the number that the 0844 477 3096 and 0115 837 7987 direct calls to after the introductory message followed by hold music (and then the recording on 973 8810).

To clarify, this system operates the way in which most of these do:

Ring 0844 number; call is answered "Welcome to such and such a surgery." Some then have an extra message, like this one which advises dialling 999 for a medical emergency and that the busiest time is 8am to 10am. It then says "Please wait while we connect you connect you to the surgery." Then you get the hold music followed by "You are now connected to such and such a surgery." …

The bit in blue is on the local number that terminates at the surgery (0115 973 8810 in this case) which tells us that it is at that point that what the caller hears is played out by equipment at the surgery.

Dave wrote on Jul 8^th, 2011 at 6:42pm:

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jul 8th, 2011 at 4:11am: Dave wrote on Jul 7th, 2011 at 8:55pm: Derby Road Health Centre in Nottingham, having previously given a 0115 number on its website alongside the 0844 number has finally dropped its 0844 number in favour of 0115 only. http://www.drhc.org.uk/contact-us The 0844 number is still shown on NHS Choices and appears on the website for "out of hours" calls. This looks like a case where a surgery has published its own direct number, but still has the out of hours switching configured at the exchange on the 0844 number. It may warrant investigation! This is the sort of nonsense I would expect from a certain surgery telephone system provider.

Indeed, there is a lot of rubbish on this site!

Having made one suggestion that was shown to be ridiculous by information not available to me when I proposed it, let me attempt another.

It would seem from what is published above, and from further investigation, that 0115 837 7987 does appear to operate in exactly the same way as the 0844 number. Some of the information published on the website is indeed untrue, as calling 0115 973 8810 gives access to the out of hours routing (and this can be accessed by dialling 0115 837 9787). The website suggests that the latter number is only for daytime use and the 0844 number should be used when calling "out of hours".

I had not done this test when previously making an allegedly nonsensical suggestion based on what the surgery says. I had also failed to recognise that the earlier posting was referring to two different 0115 numbers.

The website states that calling 0115 837 7987 will give engaged tone if more than 10 callers are queuing and that the 10 call queue is due to "more virtual lines". If this is also untrue, because it should refer to 0115 973 8810 (which previously appeared on the website, perhaps above the same text), then we have a case where a 0115 number is doing everything that a 0844 number can do. This suggestion is supported by information from the website, not previously highlighted:

Quote:

New Telephone Number Don't forget our new telephone number for those wishing to call us on a 0115 number is 0115 8377987. The 0844 number will also remain functional for the time being.

If this is so, then we can dismiss any suggestion that only non-geographic numbers can provide network-based queuing. Some may wish to take this further to suggest that all geographic numbers offer the same facilities as non-geographic numbers. One could then go further still by saying that because no GP surgery needs the benefit of geographic anonymity, there is no purpose in suggesting that a 03 number could offer any benefit to a GP.

At the risk of being accused of promoting the interests of the telephone industry, I will state that I do not agree with the final conclusion of the preceding paragraph. The logic of the paragraph is flawed. I do not expect those who cannot see the flaw to share my view. I will continue to promote migration to 03 as the natural solution for NHS GPs with systems that depend on network waiting and are presently using 084 numbers. I will continue to expect opposition to this position from many quarters.

I would also suggest that one, potentially the best, way of understanding why a surgery has three working telephone numbers is to ask the Practice Manager. I can however understand why those who feel that they are engaged in a war against a deceitful and wicked enemy would not wish to engage with them nor grant any credence whatsoever to any statement they make.

Last week I had to phone a Company in Gernsey on an 0800 number and was amazed to find a queuing system of upto 10 after I got to Dept I wanted - the second time I went on at 5th position and was 1 in ten minutes - But my main point is its 0800 which is FREE from landlines and I have heard that if you leave off the 0 of 0800 on mobiles it connects but have not tried it - no mobile !!!  - I am not quite in 21st Centuary  ;)

speedy wrote on Jul 10^th, 2011 at 11:14pm:

Last week I had to phone a Company in Gernsey on an 0800 number and was amazed to find a queuing system of upto 10 after I got to Dept I wanted - the second time I went on at 5th position and was 1 in ten minutes - But my main point is its 0800 which is FREE from landlines and I have heard that if you leave off the 0 of 0800 on mobiles it connects but have not tried it - no mobile !!!  - I am not quite in 21st Centuary  ;)

Mobile providers should give an announcement on 0800 (and 0808/0500) calls where calls aren't free.

I believe that with O2 mobiles, callers should leave off the leading zero. This therefore means that they aren't "0800" numbers, but "800" ones, so I believe (and perhaps someone can clarify because I'm a bit unsure on this) they don't have to give the message. Is this right?

Is this right? 0800 and 0500 numbers with o2 are 'free'?


http://service.o2.co.uk/IQ/SRVS/CGI-BIN/WEBCGI.EXE?New,Kb=Companion,question=ref%28User%29:str%28HomePhone%29,T=HomePhone_Case,CASE=23646

sherbert wrote on Jul 11^th, 2011 at 9:14am:

Is this right? 0800 and 0500 numbers with o2 are 'free'? http://service.o2.co.uk/IQ/SRVS/CGI-BIN/WEBCGI.EXE?New,Kb=Companion,question=ref%28User%29:str%28HomePhone%29,T=HomePhone_Case,CASE=23646

This question relates to the O2 Homephone service.

Dave wrote on Jul 11^th, 2011 at 9:16am:

sherbert wrote on Jul 11th, 2011 at 9:14am: Is this right? 0800 and 0500 numbers with o2 are 'free'? http://service.o2.co.uk/IQ/SRVS/CGI-BIN/WEBCGI.EXE?New,Kb=Companion,question=ref%28User%29:str%28HomePhone%29,T=HomePhone_Case,CASE=23646 This question relates to the O2 Homephone service.

Thanks Dave, sorry for being such a prat :-[

Two more surgeries SAY NO TO 0844 in Berkshire !!   :) :D :D

Parkside Practice of Green Road, Reading and the Woodley Park Surgery, Headley Road, Woodley have abandoned 0844 and
changed to 0118 926 0026

Woodley Centre Surgery of Headley Road have abandoned 0844 and changed to 0118 969 7307

and their Westfield Surgery in Winnersh have abandoned 0844 and changed to 0118 978 3349



http://www.parksidefamilypractice.org.uk/

http://www.nhs.uk/servicedirectories/pages/GP.aspx?Pid=14f8b449-24f4-43b6-a721-95785a4ac037&TopicId=9

Dr Cakebread and Partners at Shefford Health Centre has abandoned its 0844 894 4000 number in favour of 01462 810034:

NHS Bedfordshire: 22 July 2011 : Dr Cakebread and Partners to get ‘local code’ phone number

Dave wrote on Jul 24^th, 2011 at 9:03am:

Dr Cakebread and Partners at Shefford Health Centre has abandoned its 0844 894 4000 number in favour of 01462 810034: NHS Bedfordshire: 22 July 2011 : Dr Cakebread and Partners to get ‘local code’ phone number

see this posting

Report from the Halifax Courier, Tuesday 25 October 2011:

Surgery gets rid of that 0844 number


Another surgery has abandoned its TalkTalk Business Rate 0844 number. Beechwood Medical Centre in Halifax has, at some cost to itself, reverted back to a local 01422 number.

Patients have complained about being charged extra when ringing from mobile phones.


The article goes on to say that the seven practices in the area that use 0844 numbers have confirmed to the PCT that "their tariffs are in line with BT rates – the same price when calling from a landline. When calling from mobile phones, charges depend on the mobile phone provider."

They do come out with some nonsense! When calling from any phone (fixed, payphone or mobile), call charges depend on the respective operator. There is a free market for telecommunications services… yet these people still keep harping on about BT!  ::)

Connaught Square Practice in West London got rid of its 0844 number recently.

See Patient Participation Group Minutes from Tuesday 16th August 2011 (Word document):


Quote:

Telephone system update The new telephone system will be installed on Friday 19th August.  We are in the process of deciding on the new surgery number, with the aim of choosing something which is easy to remember.  Patients will still be able to call the 0844 number and will then hear a recorded message advising them that the number has changed to an 0207 number, and they can either re-dial or stay on the line and be put through to the surgery.  Eventually (Brian will decide when) when patients call the 0844 number they will simply hear a message advising them of the new 0207 number and asking them to hang up and re-dial the new number.  Dr O’Hare stated that installing the telephone system with the 0844 number was a good idea at the time, as it funded the initial outlay required for new telephones.  Unfortunately, changes in call charges have made the 0844 number expensive for many patients, and she is delighted to be changing back to a local number.

Quote:

they will simply hear a message advising them of the new 0207 number

Eleven years after London changed to the 020 area code, why are people still saying 0207?

This error says more about their understanding of telecoms than anything else.

catj wrote on Nov 11^th, 2011 at 8:10am:

Quote: they will simply hear a message advising them of the new 0207 number Eleven years after London changed to the 020 area code, why are people still saying 0207? This error says more about their understanding of telecoms than anything else.

Not to mention "0203" which is arguably even worse. I think I have officially given up on this, just make sure I get it right myself, unlike my son, for whom it is still a crusade!

I've moved the postings about Wallingbrook Health Group saying "yes" to 0844 to the thread GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire).

This page lists an 0845 number for this surgery but the NHS page now shows an 0300 number is in use.

Maybe this is the start of the much-needed changeover to 01/02/03 numbers by the NHS?

catj wrote on Dec 31^st, 2011 at 8:41pm:

This page lists an 0844 number for this surgery but the NHS page now shows an 0300 number is in use.

Thanks for pointing this out. The former number was actually 0845.

Sadly compilation and review of the database from NHS Choices cannot be an ongoing exercise. For this reason every entry contains a link to the actual NHS Choices entry for verification. NHS Choices is itself commonly weeks or even months out of date. I invite feedback on the database contents page and respond to notifications such as this.

The situation in this case is explained on the practice website.

Park Medical Centre in Peterborough has replaced its 0844 414 4164 number with 01733 552801.

Off-Topic replies have been moved to this Topic.

Wallingbrook Health Centre in Chulmleigh, Devon has just issued a landline number to run alongside its 0844 number. The new number is 01769 580295. It seems they are not, at this time, actually getting rid of the 0844 line but at least we no longer have to use it. In their latest newsletter they state

Quote:

However we acknowledge that we have been ill advised by the Telephone Company regarding the call charges. In order to address this issue we now have an additional number, 01769 580295, which runs alongside the 0844 number. This will drop into the menu system in the same way, the only difference being when all the lines are busy you will not be held in a queue but will get the engaged tone. Patients will need to seek advice from their call provider as to which number will be the cheapest for them to use.

devon jack wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2012 at 3:33pm:

This will drop into the menu system in the same way, the only difference being when all the lines are busy you will not be held in a queue but will get the engaged tone.

So a better service as you won't be ripped off queuing for minutes on end at 5p per minute plus connection charge but will only get through when someone is available to talk to you.

I am the only person to wonder how reliable the advice of these doctors is on medical matters actually is if they can't be trusted to understand phone call costs properly. :o

NGMsGhost wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 4:30pm:

devon jack wrote on Mar 3rd, 2012 at 3:33pm: This will drop into the menu system in the same way, the only difference being when all the lines are busy you will not be held in a queue but will get the engaged tone. So a better service as you won't be ripped off queuing for minutes on end at 5p per minute plus connection charge but will only get through when someone is available to talk to you. I am the only person to wonder how reliable the advice of these doctors is on medical matters actually is if they can't be trusted to understand phone call costs properly. :o

Two points to add here.

Firstly, we have the two tier NHS - pay more to get a better service! Is this the shape of things to come?


Secondly, is there anyone who understands phone costs properly? Even those of us who claim to, have severe limits to our knowledge and understanding.

The point worth making about GPs is not about their medical knowledge, but about their ability to lift their eyes from the individual patients they see each day to plan the resources needed to meet the health needs of a community using resources derived from taxation, which therefore need to be properly accounted for. Another key talent which will be tested as they lead Clinical Commissioning Groups will be their ability to negotiate with companies offering to deliver NHS services "free at the point of need".

If what they have demonstrated in arranging their telephone services (in many cases) is anything to go by, it is this latter skill which may well be seriously lacking. They will undoubtedly need a lot of help, advice and support and I am sure there will be many who will be happy to help them.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Mar 5^th, 2012 at 12:49am:

Firstly, we have the two tier NHS - pay more to get a better service! Is this the shape of things to come?

Actually its pay less to get a better service here  i.e. pay less and don't stand there with a phone clamped to your ear to profit your doctor and their telco.


Quote:

Secondly, is there anyone who understands phone costs properly? Even those of us who claim to, have severe limits to our knowledge and understanding.

Yes I do.  And I can drive the MSE call checker etc if there are gaps in my knowledge.


Quote:

The point worth making about GPs is not about their medical knowledge, but about their ability to lift their eyes from the individual patients they see each day to plan the resources needed to meet the health needs of a community using resources derived from taxation

Most of them have always been smug, superior and thoroughly patronising and had an "I know far better than you what is good for you" attitude in my experience.  This comes from being in a control of service that is rationed and which they control all access to so they feel like gods.

Given this smug, superior and thoroughly patronising attitude they just thought they could tell their patients what phone number was best for them without actually bothering to check up on the matter properly. :o >:( >:( >:(

Even the fact that women who want simple birth control in Britain can't get it without being probed and prodded and then lectured by these body fuhrers is all part of the same syndrome.

I look forward to the day when we can all be diagnosed by high tech computers in full confidentiality instead of being pushed around and controlled by these mini school headmasters.

devon jack wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2012 at 3:33pm:

Wallingbrook Health Centre in Chulmleigh, Devon has just issued a landline number to run alongside its 0844 number. The new number is 01769 580295. It seems they are not, at this time, actually getting rid of the 0844 line but at least we no longer have to use it. In their latest newsletter they state Quote: However we acknowledge that we have been ill advised by the Telephone Company regarding the call charges. In order to address this issue we now have an additional number, 01769 580295, which runs alongside the 0844 number. This will drop into the menu system in the same way, the only difference being when all the lines are busy you will not be held in a queue but will get the engaged tone. Patients will need to seek advice from their call provider as to which number will be the cheapest for them to use.

Thank you for posting about this. I've added an entry in the database for it. I'm not sure how many calls it will take simultaneously (before the engaged tone is heard), but I have successfully made three calls to it at the same time (from different lines) and all got through.

The number 01769 580278 was submitted to our database and goes to the second level IVR (menu) of 580295 and the 0844 number. You get to this when you select the option to be put through to the surgery (or you do at least when it is closed as it is now).

Dave,

If you are spending your own money to call these 0844 numbers to compare them with the geographic then you clearly deserve a recommendation for an order of sainthood in the service of the campaign against ripoff phone numbers.

Unless of course Daniel actually gives you a small allowance for doing this out of all that click thru revenue he must earn off the various Google ads on this website? ;) :-/

This isn't a surgery saying "no" to 0844, but a Foundation Health Trust. North East London Foundation Trust (NELFT) currently uses a block of 0844 numbers and these are due to be replaced with 0300 ones on 2nd April.

Here is the recent news release:


Quote:

New telephone numbers at NELFT 2012-03-09 13:59:00 NELFT telephone numbers that currently begin 0844 600 will change to 0300 555 on 2 April. Both the existing 0844 and new 0300 telephone numbers will work until the final switchover at the end of June. NELFT trust head office number will change to 0300 555 1200. Why we’re changing our numbers We have decided to change the numbers in response to feedback from our service users. Nowadays, many people prefer to call NHS services from mobile phones rather than landlines and 0844 numbers aren’t always included in call packages. This can make the calls more expensive than local numbers or 0300 numbers. Calls to 03 numbers cost no more than calls to a local number beginning with 01 or 02 and are often included in inclusive minutes and discount schemes from phone providers. …

The reason given for the change is clearly given as being feedback from users. It does not make any mention of the requirement to comply with the Directions to NHS Bodies concerning the cost of telephone calls, even belatedly. This came into force on 21st December 2009 and gave Bodies exactly a year in which to comply, but NELFT carried on in defiance.

Is this the future NHS where service providers respond to feedback from "customers" instead of the current one we have where the first principle is that services are free at the point of need, funded by general taxation?

Coming back to the subject of misuse of Business Rate phone numbers, the contact page states:

Calls from a BT landline will be charged at the standard local rate.
Calls from other landlines and mobile providers will differ in price.

The prefix used by NELFT is 0844 600 and this is g8 charge rate which is 1.02 pence per minute at all times from BT lines. The statement about price to ring the 0844 number is greater than the actual price as calls from BT are less than the "standard" local rate which is 4.032 pence per minute during weekday daytimes.

The reality is that since 2004 residential BT customers have not paid "standard" rates for geographic calls due to the fact that "discounted" Calling Plans (formerly BT Together Options) were made the norm. Of course, calls to NELFT's 0844 numbers have never been open to any BT discount, as by their very nature, BT discounts are not permitted as they would reduce to the level of Service Charge from which it benefits via its communications provider.


NELFT has clearly been one of those organisations that misuses Business Rate numbers, not only because being an NHS Body it shouldn't be levying a fee in the first place, but because it favours some customers of one particular telephone provider, when as a public service provider it should not be acting in such a way.

It lives in the dark ages by harping back to BT "standard" rates, which are essentially defunct "pre-competition" rates. To give it its due though, it does recognise that the charges made by other providers will differ. Many misusers simply say that others "may" differ.

Dave wrote on Mar 11^th, 2012 at 11:44am:

To give it its due though, it does recognise that the charges made by other providers will differ. Many misusers simply say that others "may" differ.

On the other hand, in the news release they say "0844 numbers aren’t always included in call packages" whereas "0844 numbers are never included in call packages" would be somewhat more accurate!

Dr Cloak and Partners in Sunderland is changing from a 0844 number to 0191 number:


Quote:

I am delighted to report that we will soon be reverting back to an 0191 telephone number for the Practice. We did think we would have to wait until 2013 when our  present telephone contract expired but thankfully we have negotiated an earlier settlement. There will no longer be a greeting of “Welcome to Dr Cloak’s surgery………….”  or telling you what number you are in the queue etc. which all cost you money. You will  only be charged from the moment you speak to one of our staff. If the lines are busy then you will hear the engaged tone. I think you will agree that this is a step forward and it is all down to the feedback from our patients who have identified the problems we have had with the 0844 number over the past few years. Watch this space for further details.

Dave wrote on Aug 17^th, 2012 at 9:29am:

Dr Cloak and Partners in Sunderland is [url=http://www.cloakgp.nhs.uk/2012/08/0844-telephone-number/]I think you will agree that this is a step forward and it is all down to the feedback from our patients who have identified the problems we have had with the 0844 number over the past few years.

Rather a shame though that this alleged "step forward" was only necessary due to the previous huge "step backwards" caused by the economic illiteracy and/or financial greed of the doctors and practice manager running this GP practice. ::)

NGMsGhost wrote on Aug 17^th, 2012 at 10:41am:

Rather a shame though that this alleged "step forward" was only necessary due to the previous huge "step backwards" caused by the economic illiteracy and/or financial greed of the doctors and practice manager running this GP practice. ::)

Well said.

The following message has just been sent to the practice using its "comment form".


Quote:

It is disturbing to read that this practice is apparently unable to afford a fully functioned telephone system without the benefit of subsidy at the expense of patients. Most telephone call plans include the cost of calls to geographic numbers at times when the subscriber uses their telephone. The cost of waiting in an orderly queue when the lines are busy is therefore generally zero, when a geographic number is used. Whilst the cost of the system on a 0844 number was heavily subsidised, if not fully covered, by callers, the practice would itself have to meet the cost of a system that enabled queuing on a geographic number. Unless patients have expressed a preference for re-dialling in the hope of getting through at busy times, it is unfair to perhaps imply that the practice is unable to provide a high quality telephone system within the terms of its NHS contract. I do hope that patients have been told the truth about the situation and fully appraised of the options available to the practice.

SCV,

To be fair to the practice given the now despicable heights to which the BT Connection Fee has risen for out of bundle weekday daytime or weekday evening calls the practice may actually be doing anyone who does not have any Anytime calls package a favour by reverting to the former traditional system of playing an engage tone when all lines are busy.

Whilst many people do have Anytime call packages there are still many households composed of single working people out all day long who do only have free calls in the evening or at the weekend.  Thus even an 01/02/03 based queuing system would not be in the interests of this particular group.

All of these systems that answer calls where they were notf formerly answered like IVR systems and 1571 are deliberately designed to maximise Connection Charge revenue and blackmail relatively low volume domestic telephone users in to having to take any Anytime Calls package.

The record of the regulator here is a total disgrace (in not price capping connection fees that bear no relationship to underlying wholesale costs of the calls) and it is simply unbelievable that BT Wholesale/Openreach is still allowed to charge the retail telephone companies customers' an extra monthly fee for the provision of CLI data that has always been free on mobiles since the inception of the GSM network.  That CLI data which BT charges for is also highly deficient compared to mobiles since it does not include CLI data for overseas calls from mobile phone numbers (unlike mobile to mobile international calls)

NGMsGhost wrote on Aug 18^th, 2012 at 1:59pm:

… To be fair to the practice …

I hope that the comment quoted above allows due consideration for the possibility that the patients at the practice in question have expressed a general preference for re-dialling.

I have to admit to being unsure about how many people mistakenly believe that the Unlimited Anytime plan is only suitable for those who make many weekday daytime calls. The break-even point is very low and daytime now extends to 7pm. Many of those who opt only for the Evening and Weekends (or Weekend only) plan, do so because they use their mobile phone for daytime calls. Both BT and Virgin Media have assured me that the overwhelming majority of daytime geographic calls are made under the terms of a call plan.

There are however exceptions. If there are a considerable number of patients who pay for calls to geographic rate numbers, then it could be very difficult for a practice to make a determination about which option is best. I am concerned that the practice in question may have suggested that queueing can only be done with premium charges in place.

We know that Ofcom does not like fixed call setup fees. It may be that when the "Access Charge" element of the "unbundled tariff" comes into effect (with setup fees prohibited) then the same principle will be applied to the "penalty charges" levied for otherwise inclusive calls to geographic numbers.

Poplar Grove Practice in Aylesbury changed back to a geographic number on 1^st July:

http://www.poplar-grove.nhs.uk/UploadedImages/main_image_bg3.jpg

Munro Medical Centre has changed its number from a 0844 one to a 01775 one.

A story from the Spalding Guardian:

Victory claimed as medical centre ditches “expensive” phone number

Source: Coulsdon and Purley Advertiser

Croydon doctors' surgeries to switch from premium numbers to local rate

Thornhills Medical Practice, Larkfield, Aylesford, Kent have ended their 0844 contract early, and were due to swap to an 01732 number in December 2012, but this is now delayed for 6 weeks.

http://www.thornhillsmedical.nhs.uk/userfiles/image/StatementrenewtelephonesystemNov12doc.pdf

Yet again, no mention that the DoH banned 0844 numbers in April 2010. Additionally, no mention of the 0344 alternative that would allow them to keep the same equipment with all its current features.

Dave wrote on Nov 24^th, 2012 at 3:12pm:

Source: Coulsdon and Purley Advertiser Croydon doctors' surgeries to switch from premium numbers to local rate

From that site it would appear, years after the numbers in London all changed to start with 020, they STILL cannot print them correctly...

"Kes Howe is the IT manager at Woodcote Group Practice, which publishes an 0844 number on its website and an 0208 number on NHS Choices."

0208... erm no that would be 020 8.

>:(

London hasn't changed to 020. It says so right here...

http://www.theargus.co.uk/li/style_guide/style_guide_q_t/

Scroll down to  telephone numbers.

The Torrington Park practice in north London has done the right thing after many years of first 0870 and then 0844 numbers. Unfortunately they still display the 0844 numbers on their main pages and don't know how to format 020 numbers. http://www.torringtonparkgrouppractice.nhs.uk/?seo=contact-finding-us&navid=48537&cookies=true

This quote was seen on a small scrolling display:


Quote:

We have a new phone number! Patients can now call on 0203 667 5030

Two weeks ago Bridge End Surgery, Chester-le-Street replaced its 0844 number with a 0191 one.

catj wrote on Dec 10^th, 2012 at 12:43am:

London hasn't changed to 020. It says so right here... http://www.theargus.co.uk/li/style_guide/style_guide_q_t/ Scroll down to  telephone numbers.

Clearly someone at the Argus needs correcting, or shooting if necessary!  ;D

Dr D W Brown & Partners - King's Medical Practice
King's Medical Centre, King Edward Street, Normanton, Normanton, WF6 2AZ
0844 8151340

http://www.nhs.uk/Services/GP/Overview/DefaultView.aspx?id=37710#news-title


Quote:

New Telephone Number On Wednesday 28th November 2012, we will be changing our telephone and fax numbers: Tel: 01642 745350 Fax: 01642 745351 Please do not use these numbers before Wednesday 28th November 2012 as your call/fax may not be answered.

In October, Barnburgh Surgery near Doncaster switched from 0844 to a geographic number.

The published telephone number for Whitstable Medical Practice is changing to 01227 284320 on Wednesday.

This very number has been in our database since December 2009.  ::)

I checked 1st March and the Dartford East Health Centre Dr. Shimmins Practice own site - not to be confused with the other Dartford East Practice under the same roof but a seperate Practice that has always had an 01322 number.

The geographic number for Dr.Shimmins Practice is now 01322 421480 instead of the 0844 - it states that there is an announcement on the old 0844 giving the new number for people not able to access the Internet.

I havent tried it yet so cant tell if it has a Menu and some queuing, but will do so on Monday and post results here.

The NHS Choices site is not up todate yet.

More good news -- Brookside Group Practice, Earley, Reading have abandoned their 0844 number and reverted to an 01 local number, as reported in the Wokingham Times :---

http://www.getwokingham.co.uk/news/s/2130063_gp_practice_ditches_controversial__premium_rate_phoneline_

I have just noticed that Bewbush Medical Practice in Crawley has at last stopped using an 0844 number - a number of my friends who only have mobile phones will be very glad of this.

http://www.bewbushmedicalcentre.co.uk/info.aspx?p=6


Quote:

We hope that all our patients understand that the introduction of the old telephone number was a decision taken by the Department of Health, which was beyond our control. The minimum term of that contract expired this month and we have withdrawn from it at the earliest possible opportunity.

Hmm.

The Brookside Surgery number change from 0844 to a geographic number is also reported in the Reaing Post as  "Surgery drops premium rate phone lines"

http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/s/2130070_surgery_drops_premium_rate_phone_lines

There are 15 comments on the story and one at least is still highly critical of the GPs :---

"Cheeky swines charging that much just to call and book an appointment!"

Let us hope that other GPs using 0844 quickly get the message that their decisions are very damaging to the image and prestige of their profession.

loddon wrote on Mar 6^th, 2013 at 9:52am:

The Brookside Surgery number change from 0844 to a geographic number is also reported in the Reaing Post as  "Surgery drops premium rate phone lines" http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/s/2130070_surgery_drops_premium_rate_phone_lines

Well done to campaigners for their efforts in making this happen.

Northdown Surgery in Margate will be dropping its 0844 number soon.

There's a story from the Isle of Thanet Gazette: Doctors' surgeries to drop premium-rate tariff on phone lines.

It is very good news that yet another surgery is reverting to a geographic number albeit belatedly.    However, one must wonder why both the local newspaper and the PCT have to reveal themselves as so incompetent and ignorant.

First, the "Thanet Gazette" makes this statement in their report :--

"NHS contracts place conditions on call rates, but do not ban above-local-call rate levels."   How wrong can they be?    The one specific thing the NHS contracts do is to ban "above local call rates" using the wording that calls which cost more than a normal geographic rate must NOT be used.   In addition Ministers have made their intentions absolutely clear stating in the House on numerous occasions that GPs must stop using higher call charge numbers.

We then get a quotation from the local NHS (PCT) :---

NHS spokesman Stephen Watkins said: "We agree that patients should not pay more to call their GP practice than they would to make calls to a local number."
These expensive numbers have been prohibited for three years now but all the PCT can say is "we agree".   
Pathetic.   :( >:( >:( 


They then go on to say that, having failed abysmally to meet their responsibilities, the current wave of changes by GPs is nothing to do with them as the GPs are doing it under their own  initiative.   "However, the small number of Thanet practices who still have 084 numbers are currently transferring to the cheaper 0184 local tariff under their own initiative."

Again pathetic. :( >:( :'(