Hi, this is another plea on behalf of my son, it's a question outside my expertise and I find it all so confusing (as do he and his girlfriend) that my head is spinning so any help would be much appreciated.   My son and his girlfriend have just moved into their first home (rented) on a six month tenancy and, while hoping they can stay there longer, there are no guarantees.  There are phone sockets in the property but neither the letting agent nor the landlord has any idea as to whether the landline is still connected, who it might be with or what the phone number might be.  Basically, their priority is to have a broadband connection (no cable available) so this would have to be through a landline.  They rang BT who said the line was not live and that they (BT) would charge £127+ to connect it!  Virgin would lay a fibre optic cable (but would the landlord be happy with the garden being excavated when there are even restrictions over picture hooks on the wall?) and, again, have a long contract and seemed quite expensive. BT's attitude seems absolutely outrageous particularly as it involves a minimum 12 month contract which my son might have to break after six months not through his own fault (he cannot be the only one is this position so how much are BT & other providers making out of this sort of unreasonable charge?)   His girlfriend is with o2 for mobile and was quite happy to go with o2 broadband but of course they need a landline.  o2 suggested they use Google to find a landline provider & suggested the Post Office but they charge £110!  Primus charge £69. Some of the providers say there may not be a charge if the line is in place but surely they must charge if you don't then take their service & Primus dont seem to provide broadband.

Basically, can anyone suggest a provider of a phone line who won't charge the earth or tie them into a lengthy contract?   They don't want to use BT broadband as it has download limits so if they go with BT for the line and another provider for the boradband that will be two contracts.  Their priority is to keep costs to a minimum, landline calls are not a priority, indeed they may not even want them, just a way of getting broadband.

Thanks everyone.

I assume your son has connected a telephone to the BT master socket to see if he gets a dial-tone?

If the line has been disconnected then as far as i'm aware options are limited to paying a connection fee as well as being stuck with a minimum term contract.

I realise this isn't much help but most things do come with a minimum term contract even broadband packages.

However, I believe one or two broadband providers allow option of no minimum term contract but I guess that would come at a higher monthly price and connection fees, etc.  I can't, however, think of the broadband provider(s) that allowed this but it was a long while ago so can't even be sure they still allow this option.

Your son could, after 6 months, sign upto another 6 month short term tenancy agreement if the landlord is looking at long-term renting.

Barbara,

This happens to be one of the area's I am very good with.  Just to give you a few pointers and help you out:

You sadly need a landline if you want non-cable (Virgin) broadband, which requires a minimum 12 month contract.  If there is no line installed at the property, or it has never been connected most providers charge to set up/activate a line.  O2 do their own Home Phone service at £9.50 per month with installation/activation at £85.  As one of the occupants has an O2 Mobile they get a discount from O2 for the Broadband and they get free Customer Services calls from the home line or the O2 Mobile.

Perhaps you could help my by visiting here and putting in his new postcode and then letting me know the exhange code (it's a small code of just letters), I don't need his exact location just that code.

I can then give more recommendations.  Also this link details O2's charges, it's on page 40.

If you'd prefer to send me a personal message with the info, feel free..

I hope this helps.   :)

Barbara....

I have sent you a couple of emails, hope they may be of some help to you.

Best wishes

Sherbert

Barbara wrote on Aug 13^th, 2010 at 8:06pm:

… There are phone sockets in the property but neither the letting agent nor the landlord has any idea as to whether the landline is still connected, who it might be with or what the phone number might be.  Basically, their priority is to have a broadband connection (no cable available) so this would have to be through a landline.  They rang BT who said the line was not live and that they (BT) would charge £127+ to connect it! …

It is feasible that the line is still connected to the exchange and they are airing on the side of caution by advising that there will be a charge. The charge is for physically connecting the wires to the exchange. What is the position if it is connected, but to a LLU provider they don't wish to subscribe to? I do fear that a charge may ensue; can someone clarify?

The reason for lines getting disconnected is because there are not telephone wires coming from the exchange to the local area (a number of streets), an unused line may get disconnected in order re-connect another line which is to be brought back into service.

If your son's has been disconnected, then that's because someone else's was disconnected and your son's pair was used to re-connect that other line. It's like robbing Peter to pay Paul and in each instance, an engineer must come out and do some work, which is why there is a charge. Furthermore, this perhaps helps explain the 12 month contracts as they don't want to have an engineer to re-connect it, then for the subscriber to cancel the service after a month or so.

As a campaigner for fair telecoms, I think this is totally crazy! Many are now paying these charges, or to look at it another way, some are not having a landline as a result and consequently the cost of telephoning them on a mobile is higher.



Barbara wrote on Aug 13^th, 2010 at 8:06pm:

… Virgin would lay a fibre optic cable (but would the landlord be happy with the garden being excavated when there are even restrictions over picture hooks on the wall?) and, again, have a long contract and seemed quite expensive. …

I believe (perhaps someone can clarify) that Virgin Media don't charge for being connected to its cable network, thus the cost of the engineer installing the fibre has to be recouped through normal service charges and consequently there is probably a minimum term contract.



Barbara wrote on Aug 13^th, 2010 at 8:06pm:

… BT's attitude seems absolutely outrageous particularly as it involves a minimum 12 month contract which my son might have to break after six months not through his own fault (he cannot be the only one is this position so how much are BT & other providers making out of this sort of unreasonable charge?)  …

BT is not a charity, thus it stands to reason that it will endeavour to recoup its costs.

In answer to your question, any work is done by Openreach (part of BT) as it owns the street wiring. It charges BT Retail (the part of BT that sells lines and calls to subscribers) or the other provider for doing so. Its charges are published on its price list.

If I understand it correctly, this page says that the current charge for a new line is now £55.74 exc VAT, having dropped just over £30 in the last year. Perhaps this will help spark a reduction in the amounts that telephone providers charge end subscribers.



Barbara wrote on Aug 13^th, 2010 at 8:06pm:

… His girlfriend is with o2 for mobile and was quite happy to go with o2 broadband but of course they need a landline.  o2 suggested they use Google to find a landline provider & suggested the Post Office but they charge £110!  Primus charge £69. Some of the providers say there may not be a charge if the line is in place but surely they must charge if you don't then take their service & Primus dont seem to provide broadband. …

Primus seems nearer the mark with respect to the price Openreach charges. However, does Primus always charge this, even where Openreach does not levy this charge because the line is still connected to the exchange?

Thanks to all for the advice, I will pass it on to him, unfortunately, he'd let his mobile go flat by the time he left here yesterday - oh well, no longer my responsibility I suppose!   I too had thought about plugging in an ordinary phone to see what happened, if he had a dialling tone he could ring me & our caller display would show it if it wasn't ex-director, unfortunately I didn't think of this until this morning so again will have to wait until his phone is recharged.   I still feel that BT/Openreach could/do make a fortune from charging for reconnection like this as there must be many tenants who have to move on after six months not from choice and if each successive tenant is charged like this as I suspect many landlords/agents may not want a usable line between lettings, that is a lot of money going to someone in telecoms.  I seem to remember there was something on the forum recently about penalty charges being reduced for customers who did terminate contracts early so will try to find that.  I will post back about what he decides to do in the hope of hleping others in a similar situation.

Barbara wrote on Aug 14^th, 2010 at 3:49pm:

I too had thought about plugging in an ordinary phone to see what happened, if he had a dialling tone he could ring me...

Outgoing calls will be barred even if there is a dial-tone.  If there is a dial-tone then there is obviously a line and it is connected.

However, I agree with Dave in that it's likely that it has been disconnected to free up a space so that someone else can have a line.


Dave wrote on Aug 14^th, 2010 at 12:01am:

I believe (perhaps someone can clarify) that Virgin Media don't charge for being connected to its cable network, thus the cost of the engineer installing the fibre has to be recouped through normal service charges and consequently there is probably a minimum term contract.

That is true and there is a minimum term contract of 12 months.


Quote:

BT is not a charity, thus it stands to reason that it will endeavour to recoup its costs. In answer to your question, any work is done by Openreach (part of BT) as it owns the street wiring. It charges BT Retail (the part of BT that sells lines and calls to subscribers) or the other provider for doing so. Its charges are published on its price list.

I agree it's fair for BT to charge for reconnection but there was a time when reconnection was free because my mum who was with BT then moved to Virgin and many, many years later moved back to BT (as Virgin are really expensive for their calls) and she wasn't charged because it was classed as a re-connection.  The BT guy still had to come out because line in the exchange had been used by someone else and on top of that Virgin had cut BT's line just before it entered mums house.

A reconnection where the engineer just needs to plug the pair of wires into a suitable spot in the local exchange shouldn't be as high as what BT want especially when even with no line at all that would require a BT engineer to lay and fit new cable costs the same!

Thanks for the info, that clarifies a few things.  By the way, does anyone have any experience of TalkTalk?  I've got a feeling I've seen some negative things on the forum but can't be certain, it's just that they seem to have a reasonable broadband + phone deal from the link to homephonechoices.

Barbara, never personally used them know a friend how does, and he's not happy with their Customer Services, or Billing Support...

If you or your son is after more info on the Broadband may I recommend http://www.thinkbroadband.com/

Hope this helps.

:)

PS I have replied to you PM

Connection charges are a difficult issue. Because of the Universal Service Obligation which applies to BT, the relationship to cost is tricky to argue.

Those who argue for a common connection charge for broadband for the sake of those in remote areas should consider cases such as that of Barbara's son. A common charge for all is inevitably well in excess of cost for some.

BT will waive its connection charge under certain circumstances. These include cases where a line has been left "live" in anticipation of a new customer and where a "welcome back" offer is in place as a special promotion.

---

This case helps to confirm that those who assume most people are benefitting from the regulated call charges (for revenue sharing numbers) which apply to users of BT landlines are well out of touch with reality.

---

I have no expertise or knowledge of the relevant terms and technologies, but I understand that pc internet access via mobile connection is becoming a realistic everyday option. Perhaps those who are more aware of these matters could advise if this is worthy of consideration in this case. I foresee this as being a major option in the future, but its time may not have arrived yet.

I haven't personally used TalkTalk but have heard bad things about their customer support.

Some possibilties:-

Primus (via Homephone choices) for line rental and inclusive evening & weekend calls for £8.99 per month.

O2 Home broadband for £7.50 per month (assuming registered with someone who is with o2).  Plus if you sign up via Quidco or Topcashback you could possibly get £50 referral fee.

This comes to £16.49 per month.   However, o2 are currently doing 3 months free broadband and if you take into account the referral fee of £50 then that means a monthly reduction of £6.04 per month (over life of mininum term of 12 months).

This effectively means it could cost £10.45 per month.

I have only mentioned o2 because they do have a good customer feedback and customer service and more importingly for your son, do currently still have unlimited/uncapped.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Aug 14^th, 2010 at 6:14pm:

I have no expertise or knowledge of the relevant terms and technologies, but I understand that pc internet access via mobile connection is becoming a realistic everyday option. Perhaps those who are more aware of these matters could advise if this is worthy of consideration in this case. I foresee this as being a major option in the future, but its time may not have arrived yet.

Last I checked around, it cost around £15 per month for those that use it regulary and I believe all mobile broadband providers have a limit/cap on download after reaching a set point.

Therefore, I've always found it better to get a landline and home broadband because you get more value for your money when compared to just mobile broadband.

The suggestions made by bbb_uk regarding QuidCo / Top Cashback are worth while....

I go on a Broadband forum on a regualr basis, and they are recommended for O2 Deals

:) :)

Barbara wrote on Aug 14^th, 2010 at 3:49pm:

...I seem to remember there was something on the forum recently about penalty charges being reduced for customers who did terminate contracts early so will try to find that.  I will post back about what he decides to do in the hope of hleping others in a similar situation.

I think you're referring to this announcement from Ofcom.

Mind you, if you live in the sticks and  you want to get a broadband connection quickly, perhaps this is the best way to get it. ;D


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1303335/Lord-Mandelson-oiled-Whitehall-wheels-brother.html

I just wanted to thank everyone who provided help and advice, both via the forum and by PM etc, it has been useful and I've learnt a great deal about the subject too.  At the moment, the choice is probably going to be Virgin Media as his girlfriend's mother uses them and has found them OK.  Will post if this changes or when I have any feedback.

Barbara wrote on Aug 19^th, 2010 at 6:03pm:

...At the moment, the choice is probably going to be Virgin Media as his girlfriend's mother uses them and has found them OK.  Will post if this changes or when I have any feedback.

Just so you're aware, Virgin don't have download limits as such but they do operate a traffic management system whereby after you have downloaded so much, your download speed will be reduced by 75% (ie 10meg down to 2.5meg).  More details here.

I am under the impression that if there is already a virgin cable in your property / road it is alot more cost effective / straightforward to start up with them. Simply ring virgin and give the postcode for your property and their system can check the status, not sure about length of contract required to join with them, but isn,t it the case that with any telephone / broadband package company that even if you take out an eg 12 month contract that when / if you have to move address you simply take the contract / package with you to the next address you are living at and continue paying for the contract / package ? people have to move on occassion before a contract ends surely telephone companies can accomodate this situation ?