JamesEB wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2010 at 12:18am:

Thanks SilentCallsVictim for a most helpful and informative reply. It seems that BT also gave me misleading information during the same call on how not to incur the Caller Display charge but as a newbie I cannot see where to put that question on here as it must have been discussed before. Thanks again. JamesEB

Can anyone help me with where to put this question please?

JamesEB

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~ Edited by Dave: Thread split off and renamed

JamesEB wrote on Aug 25^th, 2010 at 5:21am:
Quote:

It seems that BT also gave me misleading information during the same call on how not to incur the Caller Display charge ...

The simple answer to the question is to sign up (free of charge) for BT Privacy at Home. This includes (optional) registration with the Telephone Preference Service (to prevent other providers from tempting you away from BT by telemarketing) and requires you to make a minimal number of calls over the BT network each period.

Whilst discussing BT, I must urge all members with BT lines to consider the option of the Rental Saver offer. This saves £2.05 per month (£2.55 from 1 October) if one pays for the annual agreed term in advance. These figures includes the discount of £1.25 per month for not receiving paper bills and so there may appear to be a greater saving (£3.30 or £3.80) if the deal is misrepresented. Rental Saver is for now a one-off offer that will be withdrawn at the end of September, so there is no issue about automatic renewal. On taking the offer the Line Rental element is separated from the Call Plan contract which will be billed separately and automatically renewed on its anniversary date. Monthly billing for charges as incurred (i.e. removal from a Payment Plan) is a condition of the offer.

This is relevant to the point being made as it took me three calls, a particularly smart and helpful offshore representative, and a significant amount of intellectual effort to get to the bottom of the terms of this attractive deal. It illustrates the point that many BT customers are paying too much for their services because they do not understand its charging structures. This is largely because they are so complex that BT representatives are not able to explain them properly.


Quote:

... as a newbie I cannot see where to put that question on here as it must have been discussed before.

There is probably a thread in the "Call Providers" section of the forum. A moderator may well move these postings and I will take whatever punishment is deemed appropriate for going off-topic.

The point that must remain here is that 0560 numbers are charged (by BT) at the same rate as ordinary calls and are included in packages. The fact that BT representatives cannot be relied upon to understand and explain BT charges is directly relevant, but has a wider importance.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Aug 25^th, 2010 at 9:01am:

JamesEB wrote on Aug 25th, 2010 at 5:21am: Quote: It seems that BT also gave me misleading information during the same call on how not to incur the Caller Display charge ... The simple answer to the question is to sign up (free of charge) for BT Privacy at Home. This includes (optional) registration with the Telephone Preference Service (to prevent other providers from tempting you away from BT by telemarketing) and requires you to make a minimal number of calls over the BT network each period. Whilst discussing BT, I must urge all members with BT lines to consider the option of the Rental Saver offer. This saves £2.05 per month (£2.55 from 1 October) if one pays for the annual agreed term in advance. These figures includes the discount of £1.25 per month for not receiving paper bills and so there may appear to be a greater saving (£3.30 or £3.80) if the deal is misrepresented. Rental Saver is for now a one-off offer that will be withdrawn at the end of September, so there is no issue about automatic renewal. On taking the offer the Line Rental element is separated from the Call Plan contract which will be billed separately and automatically renewed on its anniversary date. Monthly billing for charges as incurred (i.e. removal from a Payment Plan) is a condition of the offer. This is relevant to the point being made as it took me three calls, a particularly smart and helpful offshore representative, and a significant amount of intellectual effort to get to the bottom of the terms of this attractive deal. It illustrates the point that many BT customers are paying too much for their services because they do not understand its charging structures. This is largely because they are so complex that BT representatives are not able to explain them properly. [quote]... as a newbie I cannot see where to put that question on here as it must have been discussed before.

There is probably a thread in the "Call Providers" section of the forum. A moderator may well move these postings and I will take whatever punishment is deemed appropriate for going off-topic.

The point that must remain here is that 0560 numbers are charged (by BT) at the same rate as ordinary calls and are included in packages. The fact that BT representatives cannot be relied upon to understand and explain BT charges is directly relevant, but has a wider importance.[/quote]


Two things here.....The privacy and TPS as far I am aware does not cover calls that originate form beyond our shores.

Also the new deal that SCV has out lined about the rental saver offer, requires you to make at least 6 calls a quarter to qualify.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Aug 25^th, 2010 at 9:01am:

The simple answer to the question is to sign up (free of charge) for BT Privacy at Home. This includes (optional) registration with the Telephone Preference Service (to prevent other providers from tempting you away from BT by telemarketing) and requires you to make a minimal number of calls over the BT network each period.

I have been signed up to BT Privacy from the start and it requires the customer to make 6 chargeable calls per quarter for the caller display charge of £7.77 not to be applied.  This is BT policy stated on their bills.

My calls are routed through my internet provider AOL and originally I telephoned a BT supervisor to enquire which calls qualified as chargeable calls.  The supervisor told me I would need to make 6 alarm calls.

My current call to another BT supervisor was because on my latest BT bill it states Phone usage – you have made 6 calls – charge £2.14  (i.e.the alarm calls)

and then “the minimum calls have not been made.  To avoid future charges make 6 chargeable or inclusive calls per quarter or more with BT”     Charged £7.77 for caller display.

This supervisor said the previous supervisor was wrong and alarm calls do not qualify but not to worry as I could dial 1280 in front of my calls and this would route them through BT. I asked him how I could be sure as I said I had read elsewhere that this does not always work.  He said it does work with AOL and I could be sure it worked if the person answered at the other end.

I made some calls with 1280 in front during a chargeable period specifically so I could see them on the bill (BT had applied the basic Weekend plan to my account).  The person answered at the other as the supervisor had intimated but none of those calls showed on my bill.

So, does anyone know what are chargeable calls for the purpose of the Caller Display charge?  


SilentCallsVictim wrote on Aug 25^th, 2010 at 9:01am:

The fact that BT representatives cannot be relied upon to understand and explain BT charges is directly relevant, but has a wider importance.

The amount of wrong information being given out by BT staff which is relied on by customers to make  financial decisions is a disgrace.

Thanks for help

James EB

From the BT web site.....

Line rental options

There are two ways to pay your BT landline rental. During your order, you can choose either:

  1. £11.54 every month (with paper-free billing and Direct Debit)
  2. £9.49 a month equivalent, when you pay 12 months in one advance card payment of £113.88 (Line Rental Saver)

   * Save £24.60 per year. Cheaper than Sky, Virgin & TalkTalk
   * Get the convenience of paying by Direct Debit
   * Save paper with paper-free billing

NB. You need to make at least two calls a month to avoid a £1.50 monthly charge. Payment is non-refundable.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My understanding is that you have to make just two calls a month or six a quarter to qualify. I think it is any type of call i.e. inclusive or otherwise.


B.T.'s information via emails or their web site is so complicated, you need a degree in understanding what the hell they are on about. They never ever make it easy to understand.

JamesEB wrote on Aug 25^th, 2010 at 11:22am:

I have been signed up to BT Privacy from the start and it requires the customer to make 6 chargeable calls per quarter for the caller display charge of £7.77 not to be applied.  This is BT policy stated on their bills.

Firstly, the BT Price List gives information on all of BT's pricing, although it may be said it is not set out in a very accessible or friendly manner. It also contains details of conditions for BT services. For BT Privacy at Home, refer to Section 1, Part 31. There are four subparts, all of which are very short and so shouldn't take long to read.

Subpart 2:Eligibility and Conditions states:


Quote:

In order to be eligible, Consumer customers must make at least 6 chargeable or inclusive calls per quarter with BT, (excludes calls made with BT Broadband Talk or Chargecard). Should these calls not be made, a charge of £7.77(Inc VAT) per quarter will be applied for the Caller Display service. Business customers are excluded from the BT Privacy At Home package. Consumer customers who are billed monthly must make at least 2 chargeable or inclusive calls per month with BT otherwise a charge of £2.59(Inc VAT) per month will be applied for the Caller Display service. The Caller Display element of Privacy At Home is subject to availability.

So it is six "chargeable or inclusive" calls per quarter, and there is no declaration that they must be of a certain duration. The only exclusions are that these calls must not be made via a BT Broadband Talk connection (the VoIP service for BT Broadband users) or a call made with a BT Chargecard.

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JamesEB wrote on Aug 25^th, 2010 at 11:22am:

My calls are routed through my internet provider AOL and originally I telephoned a BT supervisor to enquire which calls qualified as chargeable calls.  The supervisor told me I would need to make 6 alarm calls. My current call to another BT supervisor was because on my latest BT bill it states Phone usage – you have made 6 calls – charge £2.14  (i.e.the alarm calls) and then “the minimum calls have not been made.  To avoid future charges make 6 chargeable or inclusive calls per quarter or more with BT”     Charged £7.77 for caller display. This supervisor said the previous supervisor was wrong and alarm calls do not qualify but not to worry as I could dial 1280 in front of my calls and this would route them through BT. I asked him how I could be sure as I said I had read elsewhere that this does not always work.  He said it does work with AOL and I could be sure it worked if the person answered at the other end. I made some calls with 1280 in front during a chargeable period specifically so I could see them on the bill (BT had applied the basic Weekend plan to my account).  The person answered at the other as the supervisor had intimated but none of those calls showed on my bill. So, does anyone know what are chargeable calls for the purpose of the Caller Display charge?

Out of interest, what is the number your alarm dials? Presumably you have the ability to either change the number completely or at least program in a prefix such as 1280.


The 1280 prefix essentially says "Please route this call via BT". CPS providers should obviously have the right to block their subscribers from hopping back to BT if they wish, perhaps for certain types of call.

What is totally distasteful is the way in which some are apparently disregarding the 1280 prefix and connecting the call themselves (and hence billing it themselves). If one particular CPS provider does not wish to allow (for example) 0845 calls via BT, then when 12800845… is dialled, it should play an appropriate message or tone to signify prohibition of the said operation.



JamesEB wrote on Aug 25^th, 2010 at 11:22am:

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Aug 25th, 2010 at 9:01am: The fact that BT representatives cannot be relied upon to understand and explain BT charges is directly relevant, but has a wider importance. The amount of wrong information being given out by BT staff which is relied on by customers to make  financial decisions is a disgrace.

Without condoning BT representative for issuing misinformation, it is perhaps understandable that some (just like the public in general) may believe that prefixing a number with 1280 will always place a call with BT, and never the CPS operator. That's because the 1280 prefix was introduced for this purpose and CPS providers using it route the call just the same as if it were omitted is morally reprehensible.

This is clearly something that BT will be receiving many calls about, even though it is not its fault. To this end, it has published guidance at [url=www.bt.com/1280[/url]]www.bt.com/1280[/url].


For further information on this, Google/Bing etc. CPS providers' names followed by 1280, i.e. aol 1280 | talktalk 1280 etc.

Dave thanks for your comprehensive and accurate reply.

Calls which the BT supervisor called Alarm calls are shown in BT documentation as Reminder calls and are made by tapping in on the phone pad *55*24 hr clock time #

The second BT supervisor said the first BT supervisor was wrong to tell me these would qualify as they are service calls like 1571 and service calls do not qualify.

About 1280 in front of the calls, the BT supervisor told me that it is only Cable that it does not work with 1280 and AOL is listed to work.  As I said before, he told me that if the call was answered at the other end it would have worked as if it had not worked it would not get through. Well, several of them were answered in a chargeable period but did not show on the BT bill.  Since writing that before these calls have shown up on the AOL account.

I am still left with the question of how to make chargeable calls in respect of the Caller Display charge.

Thanks for help.

James EB

JamesEB wrote on Aug 26^th, 2010 at 4:35am:

/ I am still left with the question of how to make chargeable calls in respect of the Caller Display charge. James EB

See my reply #4

JamesEB wrote on Aug 26^th, 2010 at 4:35am:

Calls which the BT supervisor called Alarm calls are shown in BT documentation as Reminder calls and are made by tapping in on the phone pad *55*24 hr clock time #

This is the Reminder Call service where you set the phone to ring you at a certain time (a bit like an alarm clock)! You have been calling it "alarm call" and I have taken that to mean that your burglar alarm is connected to the telephone line and dials out!

For those reading this who haven't heard about it, information on the Reminder Call service is here.



JamesEB wrote on Aug 26^th, 2010 at 4:35am:

About 1280 in front of the calls, the BT supervisor told me that it is only Cable that it does not work with 1280 and AOL is listed to work.  As I said before, he told me that if the call was answered at the other end it would have worked as if it had not worked it would not get through. Well, several of them were answered in a chargeable period but did not show on the BT bill.  Since writing that before these calls have shown up on the AOL account.

Clearly it is beyond BT's control if a CPS operator like AOL blocks calls back to BT. BT should inform its representatives that this may be so and that the call may go through using the 1280 prefix, but may be charged by the CPS operator.

It would be wrong of BT to start saying which ones do and don't do this because individual operators may change their stance on this leaving BT handing out incorrect information.



JamesEB wrote on Aug 26^th, 2010 at 4:35am:

I am still left with the question of how to make chargeable calls in respect of the Caller Display charge.

There's many other people in the same boat so it is worth looking online for information.

I have two suggestions:
1. Is placing your calls with BT only blocked for certain types of calls? For example, does are you blocked from using BT for 0845 calls (due to its low rates) but not blocked from ringing geographic numbers? If so, then six calls during the weekend will do the trick. There is nothing to say that they must be of a certain length or spread out over the quarter (assuming quarterly billing). So you could put it in your diary at weekends, four times a year, you dial a number which answers, hang up, then do it another five times.

To test it, you could place one call to a geographic number (prefixed with 1280) during the week (when BT charges you for your calls). Then after a day or so, check the View My Call Charges Since Last Bill (or whatever it's called) on BT.com and see if the value has increased from what it was before you did it.

2. If that doesn't work, then what about the "Return Call" service with 1571 (or 1471)? This will cost 73.2 pence (12.2p for each time you do it), but it's still cheaper than £7.77. As you pay your line rental to BT, it is reasonable to suggest that returning calls via them might put the call with BT. This also assumes that BT regards such calls a qualifying calls for the purposes of avoiding the £7.77 charge for Caller Display provided as part of BT Privacy.

Dave wrote on Aug 26^th, 2010 at 11:22am:

link=1282713690/0#6 date=1282797309] There's many other people in the same boat so it is worth looking online for information. I have two suggestions: 1. Is placing your calls with BT only blocked for certain types of calls? For example, does are you blocked from using BT for 0845 calls (due to its low rates) but not blocked from ringing geographic numbers? If so, then six calls during the weekend will do the trick. There is nothing to say that they must be of a certain length or spread out over the quarter (assuming quarterly billing). So you could put it in your diary at weekends, four times a year, you dial a number which answers, hang up, then do it another five times. To test it, you could place one call to a geographic number (prefixed with 1280) during the week (when BT charges you for your calls). Then after a day or so, check the View My Call Charges Since Last Bill (or whatever it's called) on BT.com and see if the value has increased from what it was before you did it. 2. If that doesn't work, then what about the "Return Call" service with 1571 (or 1471)? This will cost 73.2 pence (12.2p for each time you do it), but it's still cheaper than £7.77. As you pay your line rental to BT, it is reasonable to suggest that returning calls via them might put the call with BT. This also assumes that BT regards such calls a qualifying calls for the purposes of avoiding the £7.77 charge for Caller Display provided as part of BT Privacy.

Thanks Dave but I have covered these above.

I did put 1280 in front of geo numbers in a chargeable period.  The calls went through and were answered but were not charged on the BT bill. They showed on the AOL account.

1571 etc.and Reminder Calls are categorised as service calls and service calls do not qualify.

Still looking..............

Thanks for help.

James EB

JamesEB wrote on Aug 26^th, 2010 at 12:01pm:

1571 etc.and Reminder Calls are categorised as service calls and service calls do not qualify.

Calls to 1571 are categorised as "Service Calls", but what about the return element of the service? That is, someone leaves you a message and it then says (something to the effect of) "To return the call press 0". Does this place the call with BT or AOL? It could be the former.

Dave wrote on Aug 26^th, 2010 at 12:06pm:

JamesEB wrote on Aug 26th, 2010 at 12:01pm: 1571 etc.and Reminder Calls are categorised as service calls and service calls do not qualify. Calls to 1571 are categorised as "Service Calls", but what about the return element of the service? That is, someone leaves you a message and it then says (something to the effect of) "To return the call press 0". Does this place the call with BT or AOL? It could be the former.

The thing was that BT supervisor said that even if it placed it with BT it is not a qualifying call for the purpose of the Caller Display as it is all   part of the 1571 service.

James EB

JamesEB wrote on Aug 26^th, 2010 at 12:14pm:

The thing was that BT supervisor said that even if it placed it with BT it is not a qualifying call for the purpose of the Caller Display as it is all   part of the 1571 service.

You've already said that BT representatives has given incorrect information; so is there not reason to doubt what else is said?

If this is true, then it would appear that there is no way for you to avoid these charges whilst with AOL and you will have to pay extra for caller display.

Dave wrote on Aug 26^th, 2010 at 12:17pm:

JamesEB wrote on Aug 26th, 2010 at 12:14pm: The thing was that BT supervisor said that even if it placed it with BT it is not a qualifying call for the purpose of the Caller Display as it is all   part of the 1571 service. You've already said that BT representatives has given incorrect information; so is there not reason to doubt what else is said? If this is true, then it would appear that there is no way for you to avoid these charges whilst with AOL and you will have to pay extra for caller display.

Thanks for help Dave.

I don't have 1571 so am unable to check.

I have not gone back to BT about the 1280 error yet. The last two calls took me an hour each and I don't have an hour to spend at the moment.

James EB

sherbert wrote on Aug 26^th, 2010 at 9:09am:

[quote author=JamesEB link=1282713690/0#6 date=1282797309]/ I am still left with the question of how to make chargeable calls in respect of the Caller Display charge. James EB

From the BT web site community forum...http://community.bt.com/t5/Bills-Call-Packages/Enquiry-regarding-quot-Charges-apply-if-you-you-don-t-make-two/td-p/37120


Enquiry regarding "Charges apply if you you don't make two chargeable calls per month"

2 weeks ago

Can this statement please be clarified,

does it mean that I must make two calls per month that do not come under the anytime plan, i.e to a mobile, or an international number?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Inclusive calls count.


so two calls per month that DO come under your Anytime Pan still qualify.

Hope that clears this up

Cheers


Craig
BTCare Community Mod

sherbert wrote on Aug 27^th, 2010 at 10:03am:

sherbert wrote on Aug 26th, 2010 at 9:09am: [quote author=JamesEB link=1282713690/0#6 date=1282797309]/ I am still left with the question of how to make chargeable calls in respect of the Caller Display charge. James EB From the BT web site community forum...http://community.bt.com/t5/Bills-Call-Packages/Enquiry-regarding-quot-Charges-apply-if-you-you-don-t-make-two/td-p/37120 Enquiry regarding "Charges apply if you you don't make two chargeable calls per month" 2 weeks ago Can this statement please be clarified, does it mean that I must make two calls per month that do not come under the anytime plan, i.e to a mobile, or an international number? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Inclusive calls count. so two calls per month that DO come under your Anytime Pan still qualify. Hope that clears this up Cheers Craig BTCare Community Mod

Thanks Sherbert but this does not help.

What I am trying to find is which kind of call (if any) will route through BT and show as chargeable for the purpose of the Caller Display charge when my calls are routed though my internet provider AOL.

JamesEB