Today I went into T-Mobile to ask the price of calling numbers beginning with "08" from phones using their network. The manager told me that calls would cost between 12p and £2.50 but that there was no way of knowing for sure in advance of making the call. After that you could check your balance and find out but it would be too late.

I told him that a couple of years ago I recall learning that Ofcom require telecoms service providers to publish the cost of calls to these numbers. He then went and looked it up but couldn't find any information. He offered to email me with more information if he could find any.

Am I right about Ofcom? Are companies still required to publish the cost of calls to 0844, 0845, 0870 and 0800.

It strikes me that, even in the eyes of the most myopic consumer, this situation is reaching a fever pitch of absurdity. I notice there was an Ofcom consultation to simplify matters. Yes, even the most evangelical neoliberal must realize this whole thing is beyond a joke.

But surely it is just fundamental to the free market that consumers have pricing information before making a purchase. How else can they be freely choosing what they prefer? If they do not have the information how can they be free to choose?

I assume your talking about payg rates as you talk of checking balance.

Clearly the manager you spoke didnt know what he was talking about.  :o

See http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/price-plans/pay-as-you-go/costs/ for the correct costs.

Just to clarify certain charity freephone numbers are not charged. All other freephone calls are 40p a minute.

To find out what 08 calls cost on a monthly tariff go to http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-tariffs/

then select  a tariff eg £10.21 a month sim only ,then click on see plan call costs.

The requirement introduced a few years ago that you're thinking of is called General Condition 14.2. Google it.

Here's one relevant thread I found on it:

http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1206067246


Perhaps you need the gentleman's e-mail address so you can send him more information rather than the other way around.

The prices of all numbers must be published beforehand. Whether they are usually read is another matter.

T-Mobile's pricing information for 08 and 09 numbers is here (I believe that this was produced as a result of General Condition 14.2):

http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/uk/08-09/

Thanks Dave and Big John,

That was very helpful and does indeed seem to provide the answer I was looking for from the t-mobile manager. I have a mind to go back to him and let him know. He gave the impression of being quite sincere.

Just in passing, he did refer to saynoto0870 indirectly. He told me that if I get an android phone I can download an app called "no0845" and it will give me the geographic number for most non-geographic ones. I asked him was that connected to the site saynoto0845 (I misremembered the name) and he said probably. I explained to him, however, that in my experience most of the time the website doesn't work because companies refused to accept enquiries on geographic numbers. I even told him about how companies may install equipment to make sure customers couldn't get round it by pretending to be calling from abroad.

Also just in passing, he said that a lot of people were asking about the cost of calling 08 numbers and he wished he had a sheet he could just give to them. I thought that was interesting because it shows increasing public awareness of the issue.

Back to the matter at hand, Dave, the page you link to links to another page, which links to a table of Pay Monthly tariffs for these numbers[PDF]. As you can see it is immensely complex. There is one column for each of 070, 08, 09, and 118 numbers. The good news is the column we are interested in, the 08 column, only runs to just over two pages.

Unfortunately however, it is incomplete. Close inspection reveals it fails to mention the tariffs for all but two specific 0870 numbers. What price are we going to pay for all the others? There is no mention of a tariff for 0870 numbers in general, unless I've missed it.

Compounding my concern is that in my experience this instance of tariff table incompleteness is not isolated. I have discovered the same in the past with Asda mobile. When I emailed them for answers they came back with a more complicated tariff table which was itself also incomplete. When I asked them the tariff for a particular number I wanted to call they simply did not reply to my email. As a customer it seemed impossible to discover the cost of the number I needed to call. I gave up.

For now, though, I'm interested in comparing the tariffs for 08 numbers of the major networks to help me decide which smartphone to go for. It seems to me that now that I am a prospective buyer, rather than an existing customer, I should have more power to find out what these tariffs are. Perhaps I will have a go at that today by asking a few more store sales people.

Failing that, however, I'm not sure what step to take next. Ofcom have failed to do their job. Telecoms providers refuse to comply with the law. They have moved from hiding behind increasing degress of complexity to straghtforward concealment of pricing information. In a practical sense the store manager was correct. For all practical purposes we must simply open our wallets and count the change when they are given back to us.

But for a stubborn nerd like me, prepared to ferret around for this information, what is the next step in the procedure, or do you think perhaps I am being unkind and the authors of the tariff table meant to include 0870 numbers at the top at the same rate as all the other 08nn  ranges in general, that is, 41ppm? Perhaps I should email T-mobile to check.

Best Wishes,
Stephen

longusername wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 1:59pm:

Back to the matter at hand, Dave, the page you link to links to another page, which links to a table of Pay Monthly tariffs for these numbers[PDF]. As you can see it is immensely complex. There is one column for each of 070, 08, 09, and 118 numbers. The good news is the column we are interested in, the 08 column, only runs to just over two pages. Unfortunately however, it is incomplete. Close inspection reveals it fails to mention the tariffs for all but two specific 0870 numbers. What price are we going to pay for all the others? There is no mention of a tariff for 0870 numbers in general, unless I've missed it.

I don't believe that it is incomplete.

The top line of the second column says "08" is 40ppm and then goes on to state the exceptions to this rule, of which two 0870 numbers are 12ppm.

longusername wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 1:59pm:

That was very helpful and does indeed seem to provide the answer I was looking for from the t-mobile manager. I have a mind to go back to him and let him know. He gave the impression of being quite sincere.

This is the thing with all these private providers. Giving out clear pricing information, not only to customers, but staff, is not high on the agenda.

If it's the latest handset, then that's a different matter.  ::)

Thanks Dave,

You are right. The moment I read what you wrote I saw it. Silly me. I am a big fat idiot.

While I'm here, I went to another T-mobile shop today, asked the same question and got much the same spiel, right up to and including the reference to this glorious site. I'm sad to say it seems that this site has now become part of the sales pitch for mobile phone companies to persuade their customers to not worry too much about the cost of 08 numbers.

I asked the server whether she was just passing on her own personal experience or had been trained to tell this to customers. She assured me it was just her own private knowledge. When it got to the bit about how she would love to have a list she could just give to customers (yes, it was that similar) I began to feel slightly offended. Exercising great restraint I merely asked her whether she would be surprised if I told her there was a tariff table on the t-mobile website. She said she would. I asked her for her email address so I could email her the link, but she promptly declined saying she had access to the site there and could find the page and print it out. She thanked me before I left.

This presents an espionage scenario. Who lives in Manchester and would like to pop in to T-mobile on Market street and ask my question for me?  Unfortunately I didn't get the lady's name? What are the odds she would produce a printout of that PDF document?

Anyway, I've been overly cynical enough for one day so perhaps I should leave off now. Thanks to both contributors for their help. I'm off to compare T-mobile's 08 tariffs with Orange, O2, 3, etc.

Best Wishes,
Stephen

Despite my repeated complaints Asda Mobile remain in violation of Ofcom General Conditions requiring them to disclose their full price tariff.

When I asked their customer services recently for a listing of 118 directory enquiries service prices they were simply unable to provide it to me! :o >:(