Is it illegal or just dishonest to call an 0844 number a local call rate?
Incidentally I forgot my password and had a horrendous time with your verification codes. What are these. supposed to test and why are they almost illegible?

Nita wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 11:04pm:

Is it illegal or just dishonest to call an 0844 number a local call rate? Incidentally I forgot my password and had a horrendous time with your verification codes. What are these. supposed to test and why are they almost illegible?

It is a criminal offence under the Consumer Protection Act 1987, (misleading price indications), http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1987/43/section/20


Who is the company and do you have a link to their site?
Report them in the first instance to the ASA.

I decided to contact the company and give them a chance  to put things right however I did enquire about the legality of the claim from tha ASA and have received this somewhat wishy washy reply
Thank you for your enquiry to the Advertising Standards Authority.



Calls to 0843, 0844 and 0871 numbers are charged at a higher rate than standard calls on BT’s most popular call plan (BT Unlimited Weekend) and we advise advertisers to make the cost of calling those numbers clear in ads. Calls to 0843, 0844 and 0871 numbers are charged at different rates depending on the numbers that follow the first four digits so without knowing the cost of the call and the context of the ad, I can’t advise on whether the description is misleading.



If you’re concerned about whether an ad that you’ve seen is misleading, please feel free to log a complaint on our website and we’ll look into it for you.



If you’re thinking about advertising an 0844 number and want to know how to describe it in an ad, please visit the www.copyadvice.org.uk website where you can find searchable guidance and tips on this specific topic. If you’re still not sure, you can log a request with one of the team to review your advertising.
They totally miss the point that there is no such thing as a local call rate.

Quote:

0843, 0844 and 0871 numbers

The ASA still haven't woken up to the fact that 0872 numbers are now also in use.

catj wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 5:58pm:

Quote: 0843, 0844 and 0871 numbers The ASA still haven't woken up to the fact that 0872 numbers are now also in use.

And 0873.

Nita wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 5:17pm:

I decided to contact the company and give them a chance  to put things right however I did enquire about the legality of the claim from tha ASA and have received this somewhat wishy washy reply Thank you for your enquiry to the Advertising Standards Authority. Calls to 0843, 0844 and 0871 numbers are charged at a higher rate than standard calls on BT’s most popular call plan (BT Unlimited Weekend) and we advise advertisers to make the cost of calling those numbers clear in ads. Calls to 0843, 0844 and 0871 numbers are charged at different rates depending on the numbers that follow the first four digits so without knowing the cost of the call and the context of the ad, I can’t advise on whether the description is misleading. If you’re concerned about whether an ad that you’ve seen is misleading, please feel free to log a complaint on our website and we’ll look into it for you. If you’re thinking about advertising an 0844 number and want to know how to describe it in an ad, please visit the www.copyadvice.org.uk website where you can find searchable guidance and tips on this specific topic. If you’re still not sure, you can log a request with one of the team to review your advertising. They totally miss the point that there is no such thing as a local call rate.

You need to make an official complaint on the ASA website,(http://www.asa.org.uk/Complaints/How-to-complain.aspx), they will then investigate it and inform the company to change it.

Have a look at this thread, ( http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1321709981), in particular post #13 where I post the ASA response.

.

Nita wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 5:17pm:

I ... have received this somewhat wishy washy reply Quote: Thank you for your enquiry to the Advertising Standards Authority. Calls to 0843, 0844 and 0871 numbers are charged at a higher rate than standard calls on BT’s most popular call plan (BT Unlimited Weekend)

Because of the penalty charges applied to weekday daytime calls to geographic numbers, the statement made is not actually correct.

In fact, the statement is made irrelevant because "Unlimited Weekend" is no longer BT's most popular call plan.

I quote from a BT press release of 27 August 2011.

Quote:

[The Unlimited Anytime Calling Plan] is now BT’s most popular calls plan with more than 3.5 million customers.

what is an 0872 number?

Expensive ;D

Have a look here

http://www.08direct.co.uk/numbers/0872_numbers.html

Nita wrote on Feb 29^th, 2012 at 10:12am:

what is an 0872 number?

0872 and 0873 are additional prefixes that are equivalent to 0871. Likewise 0843 is an extension of 0844.

0844 and 0843 are not extensions of 0845. Similarly, 0871, 0872 and 0873 are not extensions of 0870.

I was originally going to suggest reading
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-geographic_telephone_numbers_in_the_United_Kingdom but it doesn't appear to be 100% complete or up to date.

catj wrote on Mar 1^st, 2012 at 7:14pm:

I was originally going to suggest reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-geographic_telephone_numbers_in_the_United_Kingdom but it doesn't appear to be 100% complete or up to date.

Please feel free to make it so!  :)

How far do you think I will get with the ASA complaining about the fact that TomTom's main customer service IVR system plays a message to all customers telling them that their 0845 number is a "local rate" one.?

Won't the ASA just say "oh well as 0845 is the cheapest daytime call rate for out of bundle calls its not unreasonable for them to make such a claim. :o >:( >:( >:(

I suppose I ought to at least try filing the complaint to find out.

NGMsGhost wrote on Mar 5^th, 2012 at 9:08am:

How far do you think I will get with the ASA complaining about the fact that TomTom's main customer service IVR system plays a message to all customers telling them that their 0845 number is a "local rate" one.? Won't the ASA just say "oh well as 0845 is the cheapest daytime call rate for out of bundle calls its not unreasonable for them to make such a claim. :o >:( >:( >:( I suppose I ought to at least try filing the complaint to find out.

I didn't think that ASA regulated messages played out on telephone helplines.  :-?

NGMsGhost wrote on Mar 5^th, 2012 at 9:08am:

How far do you think I will get with the ASA complaining about the fact that TomTom's main customer service IVR system plays a message to all customers telling them that their 0845 number is a "local rate" one?

The ASA will take action on a whole range of issues, not just radio, TV and print advertising. They also cover the web, and have even taken action over details printed on A-boards, etc.

why is it regulators only compare about the cost on BT?

ihate0845 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2012 at 1:54pm:

why is it regulators only compare about the cost on BT?

Because of the way in which calls to 08 and 09 numbers are regulated.

The change in regulation will hopefully make it possible to provide pricing information applicable to all providers as well as making it clear which bit of the call charge is for the benefit of the party being called, and which bit any one individual's provider takes.

Today I came across the www.rufusroo.com website giving the following description of their 0844 number of 0844 824 6697 on their web page:-


Quote:

Landline calls to us are at UK local rates, mobile and international calls will be higher.

In looking for an appropriate web page on the ASA website to tell them what the ASA is saying they should be saying about the cost of calling such numbers I came across their Committe of Advertising Practice's web page on 0843, 0844 and 0871 numbers at http://www.cap.org.uk/Advice-Training-on-the-rules/Advice-Online-Database/Chargeable-0844-and-0871-numbers.aspx

This states that:-


Quote:

Calls to 0843, 0844 and 0871 numbers are charged at a higher rate than standard calls on BT’s most popular call plan (BT Unlimited Weekend). CAP recommends that the cost of calling those numbers should be made clear in ads. See ‘Chargeable 08 numbers: General’.  Calls to 0843, 0844 and 0871 numbers are charged at different rates depending on the numbers that follow the first four digits.

They then go on to say that :-


Quote:

At present, for calls that are charged by the minute, we recommend: “Calls cost 10.9p plus up to Xppm from BT Unlimited Weekend Plan. Mobile and other providers’ charges may vary”. Alternatively, if they know the total cost of the call, for example, because callers are being invited to hear a message of limited length or because calls are charged at a set price, marketers could state “Calls cost Xp from BT Unlimited Weekend Plan”.

Following my pointing out in a message to RufusRoo that by making the statement that are potentially committing a Criminal Offence under the Consumer Protection Act 1987 re Misleading Price Indications they have now removed the misleading statement regarding the cost of these calls being "local rate" but they have yet to replace it with a statement about the actual per minute calling cost.

I do find it more than a little disappointing indeed that a company that is selling wearable travel luggage to avoid ripoff low cost airline hold baggage fees should be trying to ripoff its own customers if they want to telephone it to ask questions about its products......

There is also further guidance on giving pricing information to customers about the cost of calling Chargeable 08 numbers in the CAP guide at http://www.cap.org.uk/Advice-Training-on-the-rules/Advice-Online-Database/Chargeable-08-numbers-General.aspx

This states:-


Quote:

The ASA has ruled that, because the BT rate for calls to 084x or 087x is sometimes different from the rate for calls to geographic numbers, marketers should no longer describe calls to those numbers as “local” or “national” to avoid misleading consumers. The ASA has also upheld against the word “Lo-call” (Emap Ltd, 6 April 2006). CAP believes that, if the cost of calling an NTS number featured in a marketing communication is more than the cost of a phone call to a landline (01 or 02) using BT’s Unlimited Weekend package, the marcom should include pricing information that states the cost or the price per minute (ppm) of a call to BT customers: BT is the dominant residential call plan in the UK so information about costs from BT’s most popular plan (Unlimited Weekend) is meaningful to the most consumers. Marcoms should state that the price of calls originating from non-BT call providers varies and, if space allows, that callers can check the price with their phone company (Windsor Telecom plc, 4 January 2006, and Langley Miniature Models, 6 April 2005). If the cost of calling an NTS number is always less than the cost of a call for BT’s Weekend Unlimited customers to a geographic number made at the same time (for example calls to 0845 numbers), CAP recommends that no pricing information has to be given. At the end of 2009, BT aligned the maximum cost that its residential customers are charged for calls to 0870 numbers with standard rates for UK calls. CAP now recommends that pricing information about the cost of calls does not have to be included in marketing communications containing an 0870 number because the cost of calling is never higher than the cost of a standard call on BT’s most popular residential package, Unlimited Weekend Plan.

So I think that fully covers off the issue of what the ASA currently has to say about requirements for giving information consumers about 084 and 087 prefixed phone numbers.

NGMsGhost wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2012 at 12:40pm:

In looking for an appropriate web page on the ASA website to tell them what the ASA is saying they should be saying about the cost of calling such numbers I came across their Committe of Advertising Practice's web page on 0843, 0844 and 0871 numbers at http://www.cap.org.uk/Advice-Training-on-the-rules/Advice-Online-Database/Chargeable-0844-and-0871-numbers.aspx This states that:- Quote: Calls to 0843, 0844 and 0871 numbers are charged at a higher rate than standard calls on BT’s most popular call plan (BT Unlimited Weekend). CAP recommends that the cost of calling those numbers should be made clear in ads. See ‘Chargeable 08 numbers: General’.  Calls to 0843, 0844 and 0871 numbers are charged at different rates depending on the numbers that follow the first four digits.

CAP is clearly outdated here. It is over year since BT announced that its most popular plan is the Unlimited Anytime Calling Plan.

The normal incidental charge of a geographic or 03 calls is therefore zero. The statement that calls to 0843, 0844 and 0871 numbers cost more than geographic calls on BT's most popular plan not only still stands, but is much greater, it being infinite.

Thank goodness that the new Ofcom regulations, which the ASA will have a major role in enforcing, do not rely on offering specific call cost information from a selected provider. 75% of non-business calls are not made through BT at all!

The vagaries of the individual "Access Charges" charged by telcos will have to be declared (unbundled) by the telcos themselves. The service provider (company called) will only have to declare the "Service Charge" element from which it (invariably) benefits. No declaration is necessary at present, but in future it will have to be given in the following form:


Quote:

Calls to 0844 824 6697 cost 5 pence per minute PLUS your phone company's access charge

The other relevant factor is that when the new BIS measures, implementing the Consumer Rights Directive, come into effect, this company will be prohibited from using a 084 number for enquires from customers.


It would be helpful to point this out to the company, which may wish to thereby reconsider its position. It is quite likely that it has been misled by its telephone service provider (C&W) and may be genuinely unaware of the fact that it is ripping off its customers, and at the same time lining the pockets of their telephone companies. That potential excuse expires once it is made aware of the truth, and has to take full responsibility for its actions.